ObamaCare - Enough Doctors?

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BillyDRitchieposted 13 years ago
With all the debate over the pros and cons of ObamaCare, one thing that has been overlooked is the 40% of physicians who said they would close their practice or retire if ObamaCare becomes law.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysi … aCare.aspx

Now assuming that figure is inflated, even if only 25% percent actually do so, the end result is going to be fewer doctors and more patients. Add to that expected decrease in new medical school students (who wants to go to school that long to become a government drone?).

Any predictions on how the Obama administration will make it attractive for doctors to remain in practice as ObamaCare slowly takes effect over the next few years?

And I have some personal insight on this...my wife is a nurse and we have talked with several doctors who are in fact planning to close up shop if ObamaCare is not repealed....
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "It's worth noting that the pollling outfit has a horrendous track record; polling demigod Nate Silver comments:
  
  ' As we learned during the [Presidential] campaign -- when, among other things, they had John McCain winning the youth vote 74-22 -- the IBD/TIPP polling operation has literally no idea what they're doing. I mean, literally none. For example, I don't trust IBD/TIPP to have competently selected anything resembling a random panel, which is harder to do than you'd think.'
  
  Nate also notes that the poll hasn't released any details of methodology, and bizarrely also says "responses are still coming in." Responses are still coming in? Why would they release any results until all responses have come in? The percentages are utterly meaningless otherwise! Nate advises people to ignore the poll entirely; it's going to be taken up by right-wing idealogues of course, but that was its intended audience from the beginning."
  
  Read more: http://blog.beliefnet.com/cityofbrass/2 … -of-brass+(City+of+Brass)#ixzz19QNgcbt7
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  BillyDRitchieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't think IBD is exactly a right wing organization....and whether their poll is accurate or not, you're evading the question.
  
  I even alluded to that possibility, with the question that even if only 25% instead of 40% closed their doors, what would happen.
  
  There's no doubt that some doctors will close their doors and fewer students will enroll in med school....so how is ObamaCare going to handle the smaller population of MDs?
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There's serious doubt that doctors will actually close their doors or fewer students will enroll in medical school.
  
  The poll you cite seems to be a count of how many doctors are republicans opposed to Obama.
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  BillyDRitchieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Serious doubt? On whose part? Fans of Obamacare? As I mentioned, my wife has already spoken to several doctors in our area alone who are planning to close up if ObamaCare does in fact go into effect.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've talked to some people in the medical field as well. Doctors are retiring earlier even now, they don't get as much compensation as they used to and their administrative expenses have gone up as well as malpractice insurance. It doesn't make sense for students to become doctors if they have to acquire so much debt and earn a lot less. The Dummycrats never do know how the economics of things work.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Family Doctor - $150,000
  Oncologist - $270,000
  Internal Med - $160,000
  Endocrinologist - $170,000
  Neurologist - $200,000
  Pediatrics $165,000
  Gynecologist $175,000
  
  These are approximate incomes 2010 for these specialties from -
  
  http://www.articlesbase.com/business-op … z19RkrvMYZ
  
  No wingnut has explained why Obamacare is going to reduce the income or increase the expenses for these doctors. If you think that 25% of the physicians are going to set up shop in Mexico, do explain the economics. They won't be able to collect payments through insurance there, and everyone here will have insurance. Are they going to accept payment in chickens?
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, if your self employed and financially self sufficient you might just pay the penalty and pay for your own medical care.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Libtards really can't figure out that expenses for a doctor in private practice will go up and not incrementally but exponentially depending on the expense once government bureaucracy sets in? Really? In addition, what is not to say that the government will not cap the payments they allow for certain treatments like they do now when it comes to prescriptions.
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Humor this libtard and explain exactly how and why expenses for a doctor in private practice will exponentially increase as a result of the new health care bill. In detail. With actual facts, real figures, and sources for your information.
  
  You know, so a simple-minded libtard like me can understand.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have not called you a libtard so I can't control that you do. As for expenses, think about it. If a doctor in private practice is going to accept patients from a program that will make the payments, and there are more patients, you don't think that there will be paperwork to fill out? You don't think that the doctor will hire at least one staff worker to process and collect? You don't think that since there are more patients that perhaps his/her insurance expense is going to go up because now there is an increase in chances that (s)he'll get sued? You don't think that maybe because there are patients in the waiting room, (s)he might need at least one doctor's assistants to prep them? You think maybe that doctor might need more room? You think maybe that the additional staff might want benefits and a retirement plan? Then think about the payments (s)he gets. Knowing that it comes from government and his/her experience with other government programs do you really think that compensation will be paid in a timely manner and keep up and include inflation in that too?
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I can "think" lots of things. Do you have any actual analysis to support what you "think"?
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I guess you've never run a business. These are not expenses to think of, these are normal expenses. When you get the actual numbers as to how much the government will pay the doctors, there will be more numbers. But if you can't think about these things ahead of time, that's one example of why the Dummycrats have a hard time figuring things out.
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I am currently running a business.
  
  Us Dummycrats, especially us libtard business owner Dummycrats, prefer to gather data and do analysis before we come to any conclusions, especially one that says expenses will "exponentially increase."
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, then why do you need to have it explained to you in the simplest terms? It should be fairly obvious to you that doctors will have an increase in patients will also have an increase in expenses and it would be exponential?
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I'm asking you to explain it to me in exact terms, not the simplest terms.
  
  Can you do that? If you can't, then obviously you've never run a business.
  
  By the way, the government will not be paying the doctors.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A businessowner doesn't have to know exact things beforehand. They know that expenses go up, they just have to find out whether the compensation will keep up with the expenses.
  
  You're just hedging.
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, you're the one who made a prediction. I'm merely asking you to back it up. And you obviously don't have the knowledge or expertise to do so.
  
  What am I hedging on? Tell me, exactly.
  
  "...they just have to find out whether the compensation will keep up with the expenses."
  
  How do you think a successful business owner figures that out? By just writing down in their business plan what they "think" or by doing market analysis and expense planning?
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you know in advance the exact figures that your business will have two years from now?
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Of course not, but I have a very good idea.
  
  I'm not asking you to provide exact figures. I'm asking you to provide some reasonable facts and and figures to back up your prediction. That is all.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  NO you asked for exact figures.
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This is getting ridiculous. No, I did not ask for exact figures. This is what I said:
  
  "Humor this libtard and explain exactly how and why expenses for a doctor in private practice will exponentially increase as a result of the new health care bill. In detail. With actual facts, real figures, and sources for your information."
  
  I suppose you could have interpreted that as asking for exact figures, so let me clarify.
  
  Please provide actual facts, estimates based upon reliable information, and sources for your information.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is getting ridiculous. You asked for actual numbers in advance of something that's happening in the future. Stop hedging. I don't believe that you're a businessowner or you wouldn't have asked for something that complicated because doctors will have varying expenses depending on their field. If you are a businessowner, then it's a very small, simple business. Sorry, that's just the way I see it.
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm asking you to provide some support for your very dire prediction that expenses will rise exponentially. That is all. It is not complicated. I am not hedging. You are hedging because you have none.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You said you're a businessowner, you should be able to figure that out. That's why I don't believe you.
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know, it's easier for you to accuse me of lying than to back up your claims with anything at all. Classy.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No I didn't accuse you of lying. I said I don't believe you. There's a difference.
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Still classy.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "In addition, what is not to say that the government will not cap the payments they allow for certain treatments.."
  
  Flightkeeper's comment was an admission that Obamacare does NOT cap payments in any way shape or form. It doesn't affect the revenue side for doctors at all, unless you consider the benefit of a 15% increase in the supply of patients with insurance.
  
  Pretty Panther went round and round about the claim of an 'exponential' growth in expenses. There's no new paperwork for doctors to support that claim, though there is a commitment, I think to cost reduction through streamlining and automating record sharing. The long-term projections there call for a REDUCTION of costs. That's my opinion, of course, and Flightkeeper is entitled to her own.
  
  However she NEVER was able to present any evidence that Obamacare will increase expenses for doctors and she virtually conceded that it doesn't affect the revenue side.
  
  These doctors sound like a bunch of disgruntled republicans who won't give up their cushy practices because of Obamacare. There should be some record of empty seats at all the medical colleges and universities.. Anyone care to provide us with the enrollment statistics?
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I get really tired of the baseless hyperbole. Was just trying to see if there was any "base" to it. Obviously, there isn't.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Baseless hyperbole?
  
  http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/0 … obamacare/
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ummmm - I read the whole piece - which was interesting and could be debated separately. It said not a word - not one about how Obamacare would drive up the cost for doctors at all.
  
  Not exponentially.
  
  Not arithmetically.
  
  Not one word. Nice attempt at a diversion, though.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, because costs as whole wouldn't be an indicator.
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  Vanessa Janeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's all she's got. Apparently, us libtards who may or may not be Dummycrats are just supposed to take her word for it.
  
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oops, I just made a silly mistake. I have another user name that I created for a different type of writing and inadvertently used it here.
  
  Sorry, it was completely unintentional!
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  Vanessa Janeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Please show me where any of that supports your claim that doctor's expenses will increase exponentially, because I didn't see it.
  
  Still baseless.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Of course.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So will I see these former doctors as Wal-Mart greeters?
  
  Rush Limbaugh promised to move to Costa Rica when Obamacare passed. (Which is funny since they DO have socialized medicine.) But he's still in the USA talking trash.. which is what your wife's friends are doing.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "(who wants to go to school that long to become a government drone?)."
  
  Can anyone explain to me where Obomacare makes the doctor a 'government drone'?
  
  The doctor is forced to be a government employee. The fee schedule for a private practice is not limited by Obamcare. Doctors are not required to pay higher taxes. What's the gripe?
  
  Specific examples please.. Where does Obamacare significantly decrease revenue for the physician or increase expenses for the physician.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Excuse me - first sentence - The Doctor is forced to be a government employee.. Add '???" so it reads -
  
  The Doctor is forced to be a government employee?????
  
  Because unlike the medical system in Great Britain, he's not.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think your going to see off shore medical clinics if you will. Those who can afford care not normally covered will get it. Supply and Demand..
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  I am DB Cooperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Kind of like what's already been happening for the past decade? Medical tourism is a huge industry. I know someone who flies to Asia to have serious dental work done. If the costs are too high and you're not covered by insurance, you'll find the cheaper option. There are clinics opening up all over the world that cater to American clients looking for the cheaper alternative. What's really surprising is the quality of care in these outfits is actually comparable to what you'll find in the United States.
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  C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just what we need. Another reason to outsource and or ship jobs overseas.
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  fireplaceguyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good point!
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  tinawehaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have talked to doctors about socialized medicine for years. Many of them will open clinics in Mexico if it gets too bad in the states.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm surprised that they don't do it now.
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  pylos26posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Fantastic news!...caint wait for the great exodus of right wing religious fanatics when Obamacare becomes real… imagine all the empty spaces suddenly in walmart’s parking lot. Ha ha...just kidding.
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Shadesbreathposted 13 years ago
LOL @ government drones.

I typed a real sarcastic remark about that, but I've decided to be nice instead and just point out that this sort of hyperbole (and I'm going with that over raging ignorance or outright deceit) is destroying the country.

The lies just keep piling up on both sides. Nobody is interested in the truth, nobody is interested in finding a better solution, everyone is just lying and whipping up mobs of ignorant, illinformed Chicken Littles to run around carrying the message of fear. When you write stuff like this, you are doing the dirty work of rich guys who pretend to believe as you do (while quietly feeding you your opinions).

I'm not even saying "Obama Care" is the answer. But endless, mindless, empty rhetoric is gutting this country, and it's painful to watch such a total loss of integrity and any interest in truth. (Or else to watch to the total loss of reason and the ability to discern truth.) Either way, it sucks.
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  BillyDRitchieposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Call it what you will, but when I have genuine MDs sitting across a table from me discussing their concerns over ObamaCare and plans to shut down rather than go through it, I'll take their word over the ObamaCare fanboys on the left who continue to cry "It's okay! All is well!" like Kevin Bacon at the end of ANIMAL HOUSE......
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  Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't get too worked up about all of this.
  
  Doug and his political heroes are a minority among U.S. citizens.
  
  They showed their true philosophy and were rejected.
  
  All IS well.
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  Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, as you should be. But there is a huge, huge, huge difference between concerns and all doctors becoming government drones. The coversation will move along towards much better ends if we discuss legitimate concerns rather than rushing headlong into politically motivated Orwellian prognostications.
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psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago
40% of doctors are not going to shut up shop just because they didn;t get what they wanted.
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  tinawehaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Doctors will indeed retire. I come from a family with 4 doctors. There will be two tiers of care. If you don't have doctors in your family, you will definitely be on the lower tier of care...think VA hospital.
  
  I'm sorry that people are so easily fooled. You never get something for nothing.
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prettydarkhorseposted 13 years ago
doctors should keep to their hearts and be reminded of the Hippocratic oath. I don't know if this suffice for that from Hippocratic oath - "Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice"-- whether leaving your patient is intentional injustice LOL...

I want to look at data about doctors (type of doctor) per population per sq miles
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Flightkeeperposted 13 years ago
And as for analysis, the garbage that the dummycrats put in the budget office gave them garbage out.
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
Coming in cold to this conversation.

Uh... flightkeeper ... even if the private practice doctors' expenses will go up from seeing more patients, their REVENUE will also go up from seeing more patients!
It's not like they will be seeing more patients for free.
They will actually see fewer patients for free, since the uninsured patients who they currently must treat (Hippocratic oath 'n all) will now be paying customers.

I'm sorry, but I really do NOT understand the resistance to this common sense and compassionate legislation.
My only regret is that it's not gonna be called Clinton Care
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Their revenue goes up but it's hard to say that it will keep up with expenses. You're thinking that if double the patients show up that the revenues doubles. That's not true in that business. And a doctor only has a finite number of hours.
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
If not having enough doctors to provide care for all the people who will be "entitled" to care under Obama's plan is such a big problem, doesn't that tell us that there is a HUGE problem now with people who NEED CARE but aren't getting it?

Maybe MORE students will want to become doctors because they know they will be able to both EARN and COLLECT a decent wage, rather than being screwed (like the rest of us) by greedy insurance companies.
Maybe they will be happy to have the power to determine what is appropriate care for THEIR patients returned to them instead of decided by hard-hearted insurance company actuaries.

But hey, if you want to get your panties in a wad about the poor medical profession, why not extend that sympathy to the poor insurance industry. OMG, their profits might fall to the double digits. Quel catastrophe!
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Of course there's a problem. I don't think ObamaCare will solve it.
  
  Yeah it would be a catastrophe. What about all those people working for the insurance company? Or don't you think they deserve jobs because they work for the terrible insurance company?
  
  The only people getting their panties in a wad as you so crudely put it are people like you who don't want to listen to any other way to fix it. Because your god Obama has to be obeyed.
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Mighty Momposted 13 years ago
Do I think all those people who work for insurance companies "deserve" jobs? I think every person who wants a job deserves a job. I also think every person deserves access to reasonably priced, top quality health care!
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Reasonably priced top quality health care". Right. Champagne with beer money, wouldn't that be ideal.
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