You mentioned in our discussion on another site that Alan Greenspan sold out. But really, he sold out by not regulating bubbles. You say he sold out by not having a gold standard. But a gold standard would cause credit to completely dry up. Some credit is necessary.
And, BTW, the TULIP bubble was not stopped by that nation being on the gold standard. Gold standards can still create conditions of bubbles. The gold standard also drains treasuries and upsets the balance of payments.
Liquidity is not bad, Evan. Speculation is what is bad!
Even Max Kaiser thinks the banksters should be regulated.
Liquidity fuels rampant and incorrect speculation.
If speculators (read: everyone is a speculator) have to use money that isn't losing value on a daily basis, and have the confidence that other people aren't getting money for free, then they can speculate accurately. Unfortunately Bernanke doesn't play that way.
Until you can recognize this, then discussion is moot.
I've pointed out how this works numerous times to you, but to no avail.
PS - I love the title of the forum (Not being sarcastic). I opened up the forum page and saw my name in huge letters! Loved it!
Liquidity does spawn speculation, but even Max says you just can't allow them to do this without regulation. So, speculation can be whittled down by rules like Glass-Steagall, a law that libertarians hate for some reason.
Your name is in lights, Evan!
Liquidity causes reckless speculation. We agree.
The problem is liquidity, not speculation. We disagree.
Regulation will solve the problem because government officials know more about the market than the people in the market. We STRONGLY disagree.
There is already proof that regulation works. Glass-Steagall. There is no proof that self regulation works.
Just a reminder - the bubbles in 2001 and 2009 were first pointed to by the private sector, not the public. In fact, while the private sector was repeatedly screaming "DANGER", jack-a-ninnies like Bernanke AND Greenspan AND the Federales were saying "nah, it's all good. Keep buying crap".
So, I'll stick with private, you can go public. We'll see who lasts longer.
HAhahaha, just kidding, we both know that this proposition is completely illegal. We can't even compare the two because it's illegal to attempt to let the private sector regulate itself.
The Gold standard CAN still create bubbles and bursts. I've openly admitted this.
It's just MUCH more difficult.
Gold can be inflated through Fractional Reserve Banking - i.e., someone puts 14 ounces of gold in a bank, and then the bank loans out 10 ounces of that gold, thus creating a total of 24 ounces of gold in the economy.
But Fractional Reserve Banking can only sustain if the government permits it. In fact, the banks realized how great FRB was, and this is why they demanded a Central Bank. FDR made the gold standard illegal in 1933.
I'm not pro-gold, I'm anti-theft. It just so happens that the two are closely related.
But, Evan, even taxation for social programs is theft according to libertarians.
FRB is here to stay. Without it the 30 year mortgage is dead. It is simply how the banks behave that is the most crucial issue. If they abandon underwriting, then the banks will become unstable.
Also Evan, libertarians are always fooled into wanting the banksters to be deregulated. But as Will Rogers said, they claim they don't understand their own business. Deregulation is a sure way to allow more speculation.
So, government sucks. But the banksters suck more and are more powerful than government. That must be our fight, to curb them.
"But, Evan, even taxation for social programs is theft according to libertarians."
That was my point. ... thanks for reiterating it?
FRB is theft, immoral and should be illegal. If owning a house without theft is impossible, then don't do it. Your argument is LITERALLY "if we all steal from one another, then some of us can own houses!"
The Bankers don't suck, they got their powers from government. Banks aren't anti-libertarian. But when they get free-reign to steal by the government, then they are evil.
Got that? I'm anti-theft.
People just cannot seem to understand that the government is run by bankers which is convenient for the bankers. Far better to blame the government than the true situation which would be most distasteful to the public.
This is incorrect - The government refused to protect the property rights of the citizenry (it started with Hamilton).
All we need is someone like Andrew Jackson to stand up against the banks. The government can EASILY re-enforce property rights, the citizenry just needs to wake up and vote for the un-corruptable Ron Paul.
Yes, Wall St., the bankers, and private corporations (big business) run this country and there is not a whole lot Congress or the President can do about it. That is what capitalism is all all about.
Yes, Allan Greenspan is to blame for the current economic crisis. He did not regulate business or Wall St. He did what was good for the big three: Wall St. , bankers, and big business.
Unless we trash our current capitalistic approach to our economy, nothing will change. Are we willing to do that? What is the most fair way to run a capitalistic economy? Are regulations on the big three too much government interference?
President Ronald Reagan is also responsible for this economic collapse. He is the president who said to do away with government regulations on Wall St., banks, and big business. He has been heralded as the greatest modern American President? Is he, in reality?
The causes of our present day economy have been going on since the l980's. We have all been asleep at the pass and Reagan, Greenspan, bankers, big business, and Wall St. all ran deregulation by us and we didn't wake up until 2008. So who's fault is it really?
Look at tiny Iceland that has more courage to stand up to the the banks than the mighty US. .
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/11/ … -sand.html
Ecuador http://www.odiousdebts.org/odiousdebts/ … ntID=18718
Argentina http://www.odiousdebts.org/odiousdebts/ … AreaID=152
Every penny paid to the private federal reserve for the privilage of creating our money should be declared Odious and denied payment.The federal deficit would shrivel like a raisin in the sun We can also tell big business and wall St. If you don't like it "Get Out" and you cant do business here either. Don't let the door hit you in the ass. Some young upstart business will be nipping at your heels to take their place.
Using government to steal isn't Capitalism. Quit drinking the Kool-aid and realize that, in a free-market, there is either:
1) no government whatsoever
2) The government actually enforces property rights by making theft / FRB illegal.
Again, God told farmers in Israel to keep fields open for the poor. It isn't stealing. You are the perverse one Evan, in thinking that government helping the poor is stealing.
I am for separation of church and state, but OT Israel can be an example of how society can take care of the poor. You attach the label of stealing to it. Most normal people don't.
News flash! The best way to rob a bank.........................................................................................Is to own one!
American people are indoctrinated. Too capitalistic! How many of them really understand what capitalism is about?
by Gary Anderson4 years ago
Hey Even, Mises said big business was not evil. To be fair, he did not live to see the TBTF banks, but I am waiting for his libertarian followers duped by this stuff to say the TBTF banks ARE evil. Say it Evan!Here is...
by Gary Anderson7 years ago
Our meltdown can also be understood. This is must see. All hubbers need to take the time to watch this video:http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 0256183936
by Evan G Rogers5 years ago
Main stream economists are finally discussing what every Austrian economist has already known (and has already been advocating) since... before they were called "Austrian Economists". That we need the gold...
by rhamson3 years ago
What if we reinstated the gold standard to evaluate the dollar in its' current distribution. Since the debt standard has been blown apart in recent years could a real precious metal you can touch make a comeback?
by Kathryn L Hill2 years ago
Utopianism is the real crux of the problem: the insistence of attempting to establish that which can never exist. We are a society which is driven by hope. We are fed hope by every commercial, billboard and salesperson!...
by Sooner283 years ago
http://abcnews.go.com/US/eleven-stores- … b9Q0vmUQ4pThis is what would happen without regulation of business (whether in an anarchist society by exile or completely shutting down something like this), or in a...
Copyright © 2016 HubPages Inc. and respective owners.
Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners.
HubPages® is a registered Service Mark of HubPages, Inc.
HubPages and Hubbers (authors) may earn revenue on this page based on affiliate relationships and advertisements with partners including Amazon, Google, and others.