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Is there a value added to life by being created by a god?

  1. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
    Slarty O'Brianposted 6 years ago

    Many people say there lives have meaning because a god exists. If no god existed life would be meaningless. So I'd like theists to explain exactly what that added value is. Is there added value by being created by a god as opposed to being the result of a natural process? If you think so, what is it?

    1. kess profile image60
      kessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      What does Life means...?

      If death is the final status of Life then Life is not Life but  life is actually death.



      What's it's origin..? A)Life is the author of Life
      What's it's purpose..? A) to give further Life


      How does one find Life?

      The understanding of Life is Life itself and Life possesses the same attributes as God to those with the right understanding.

      So to find Life you must think the same way as Life does....and you're find that you're it.

    2. Jen Buczynski profile image60
      Jen Buczynskiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The added value of knowing that God created me is knowing that I have a purpose higher than what I can see. You wouldn't believe how much this aids when feeling depressed! It's about looking away from my own self and alternatively seeking the good of others, because God also made them and they deserved to be honored.

      Thanks for asking!

      1. profile image0
        Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        so belief for you is mainly about feeling like life has a point/purpose?  Could this be the reason people seek gods?  Because they hope it will provide some purpose/meaning?

        1. Jen Buczynski profile image60
          Jen Buczynskiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Not because we hope God will provide a purpose, rather that God is the purpose.
          And no, my belief is for sure not mainly about feeling like life has a purpose, as you put it. Rather belief in the Christian God (or any god for that matter) is much more complicated. It's a way of life. There is no other way of life besides Him when you have Him. He impacts the choices I make, the way I think, how I love, when I am challenged. When I go through disappointment, I know there is a purpose to it. When I fail, I have encouragement to try again without growing weary. Yet, belief in God is not really about me at all. Like I said, complicated smile But awesome. It's a mystery much of the time.

          One of those things one will never know until he or she has experienced it.

          1. profile image0
            Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            the roadrunner seems to think so (warning to the easily offended):  contains coarse language:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekgbg6DRctA  The coyote catches the roadrunner

            1. Jen Buczynski profile image60
              Jen Buczynskiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not really sure what your reply means, but thanks for the warning that the vid contains coarse language.

              1. profile image0
                Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                you'd have to watch the video to see - the coyote has a meaning/purpose crisis

                1. Jen Buczynski profile image60
                  Jen Buczynskiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  In order to avoid the coarseness, would you mind explaining instead?

                  1. profile image0
                    Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Warning: SPOILER

                    Is amusing satire cartoon spoof of the cartoon in my childhood where the coyote spends his life trying to catch the roadrunner (fast bird).

                    Coyote can't believe he finally kills the roadrunner, eats him and comments that it felt so good to work hard for 20 years and finally mission accomplished.

                    Coyote doesn't know what to do with his life as had no other purpose.  Becomes alcoholic.  Gets job in fast food outlet.  Deals with horrible customers. Gets upset.  Gets fired.

                    Writes suicide note & ready to go through with it.  Changes mind.

                    Is in a cafe talking to another coyote about how he was going to kill himself, but now has found meaning.  He told the other coyote, if he can have 45 minutes of his time, he can talk about finding the lord Jesus christ.

    3. profile image68
      paarsurreyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The natural process is designed by the Creator-God to add value to human life.

    4. safiq ali patel profile image70
      safiq ali patelposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Think both good times and bad times feel better or of more value when their is faith in god.

    5. qwark profile image60
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Slarty:
      Life IS meaningless.
      It is only meaningful to the living for the time they have been gifted with it.
      Once gone, forgotten.
      Like a box of kleenex, another pops up.
      And so it goes for a couple billion yrs...maybe!
      There is no meaning to life.
      It's just a "happening."
      Qwark

    6. goldenpath profile image81
      goldenpathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes.  As a child of God you, and all of us, have the opportunity to inherit such a status if we are worthy of it.

    7. Shahid Bukhari profile image61
      Shahid Bukhariposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Life's is not a hamburger ...

      1. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
        Slarty O'Brianposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Are you sure?

        1. Shahid Bukhari profile image61
          Shahid Bukhariposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, I very certainly am.

          Let me explain ....
          VA, in terms of "human" life, Created by "a" God, means ...
          our being humane ... Humanity !

          [Not the un natural processes believed in by the middle-men as their divine Right of making profits, at the expense of the likes of you and me]

          1. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
            Slarty O'Brianposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            wink I was kidding. I have to admit not knowing what you meant. I thought "life is not a hamburger." was a rather funny way of looking at things. But thanks for explaining. I think I know what you are getting at now.

            1. Shahid Bukhari profile image61
              Shahid Bukhariposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              You are welcome

  2. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 6 years ago

    God having the capacity to create our physical bodies and our senses to experience life which certainly indicates he can impact us emotionally as well.

    There have been those people who have been stuck on drugs and/or alcohol whom have gone through the treatment processes with little or no success. Some of these same people swore that once they turned to religion they were cured in a record number of days without any ill aftereffects.

    One can have wealth which leads to possessions and these things can make one happy-But most times this happiness is only temporary. When someone is around wealth a while a long period of time the ecstasy of this lifestyle seems to wear off.

    Not saying that this condition is better but one can see how God's influence plays in the life of those who were/are in bondage and yet still able to look beyond their condition with love, hope and inspiration. Clearly the impact on their life cannot be coming from mankind.

  3. profile image0
    just_curiousposted 6 years ago

    I think the real value added is the knowledge that it doesn't end here. For any of us.

    1. Pcunix profile image87
      Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      See?

      Fear of death.  Number one emotional reason for theist belief.

      You just love yourself so much and think you are just so important that you cannot die.

      You will.  There is no afterlife.  Grow up and get over it.

      1. profile image0
        just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I'll see you on the other side pcunix. Have no doubt. I won't gloat about out either.we'll do pizza. It'll be fun

  4. Rafini profile image86
    Rafiniposted 6 years ago

    I don't think there's any added value to life from having been created by God.  If I were to die tomorrow and learn there was no God, would the value I had attributed to my life change?  No.  I may feel differently about my experiences, but the value of my life wouldn't be any different.

    1. Jen Buczynski profile image60
      Jen Buczynskiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I guess that indicates that you don't believe in a God, so are you qualified to answer the question? smile

      1. Rafini profile image86
        Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        (wrongo)  Just curious, lol, how did you come to that conclusion?

        1. Jen Buczynski profile image60
          Jen Buczynskiposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Oops. I reread (for the 4th time, haha) and I think I understand better now. I didn't see anything explicitly saying that you do believe.

          But, having said that, if God adds no value to your life, may I ask why you would believe in Him? (That's why I assumed you meant that you don't believe, because I see my belief in God adding value to my life.)

          1. Rafini profile image86
            Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            My belief in God does add value to my life, I think, but I could be wrong.  I've never lived on the other side of the fence.  However, the question I answered asked if being created by God added value to my life.  I say no, because the value of my life wouldn't change, just as the value of an atheists life isn't any different than mine just because they don't believe.

  5. Globalintimate profile image59
    Globalintimateposted 6 years ago

    I respect everyones opinion on God, if you lead happy life whatever you believe god or not I think.

  6. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
    Slarty O'Brianposted 6 years ago

    Is that why people want there to be a god? Just so they can live forever? But if life is eternal, doesn't that cheapen it? It means there is nothing else. Who cares if you die if you are just going to wake up dead?

    An atheist has to live for every moment because life is temporary. That adds value to our lives. I value all life exactly because it is is temporary.

    Another answer to this was that there is value added by knowing a higher being exists if you are n trouble or depressed. But there is never a guarantee that it will help you. So is knowing it exists enough?

    For an atheist, the problem is no one can actually know that as a fact. So people who believe have to have faith that it exists.

    I guess what I want to know is: What meaning does a god add to life that would not be there if there were definitely no god?

    1. profile image0
      just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It's your mindset that makes you unable to see these as answers. I hate posting, since I know this wil make no sense to you. But belief in the afterlife does not cheapen life. Death is still a pretty big leap.

      As far as the second, that's gives one peace to know that there is something watching, capable of stepping in and helping you find perspective when trouble seems to overwhelm you. Inner peace is not something to be dismissed lightly.

      The core belief in God for most people is considered fact, not faith. If there wasn't something you could believe as evidence to this you wouldn't really believe. Faith is simply in the structure that surrounds this core belief.

      Sorry, I'm sure this was no help at all but, like I said, it's all in the mindset.

      1. Beelzedad profile image61
        Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, a mindset of rationale, reason and logic as opposed to a mindset of gullibility, indoctrination and denial. smile

        1. profile image0
          just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          oh. I see the party's over. Ok by me. I was already bored.

          Rationale and reason are used by some for their core belief in God. Maybe more than some.

          As to indoctrination...I have admitted that I see your point. But indoctrination doesn't necessarily imply that the faith is a lie. You cannot prove the resurrection never happened. You must first prove this to make the House fall down. Can't be proven either way.

          1. Beelzedad profile image61
            Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            No, rationale and reason are not used by believers for their core beliefs. You are referring to indoctrination.



            That is true, one must look at the specific claims made by religions in order to see if they are valid or not.



            That is a ridiculous thing to say. Can you prove it did happen?



            Of course not, you are invoking magic, which violates the laws of physics. If you actually used rationale and reason, you would come to the same conclusion. smile

            1. profile image0
              just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Is it not reasonable to use personal observation and experience to come to conclusions as to belief? Outside of the church teachings? How is this indoctrination?

              I believe I stated that the Resurrection cannot be proven either way.  Just because you choose to pretend the burden of proof lies completely in my court, I don't have to.

              Although we do not understand yet how it happened, you can't conclude it isn't possible. We don't know everything. I do concede that it is as leap of faith to believe in it at this time.

              1. Beelzedad profile image61
                Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, you've come to observe and experience every word in the bible without ever having read or heard of the bible, or Jesus, or anything else printed there. Yeah, right. roll



                This is true, you are free to continue deluding yourself that magic is real and we can bring the dead back to life.



                Yeah, it's called magic.



                It is more than a leap of faith, it is a denial of reality, plain and simple. smile

                1. profile image0
                  just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I am not speaking of God in the Flesh, I am speaking simply of God..  I forgot that I had to speak plainly, concisely, and repeat myself every time I post.


                  As to the Resurrection..I have never said we can bring the dead back to life. He was not brought back in the way you are speaking. It was not....you know what? I won't waste my time repeating myself with this either. You choose not to believe. I swear if someone handed you proof positive you'd probably still say something like 'Rubbish' simply because you'd refuse to concede the point.

                  Why is it so easy for me to accept all of your beliefs and not one of mine is reasonable or rational? if I were as irrational so you say I wouldn't be able to swype this, they wouldn't let droids in the madhouse.

                  I think you are simply being difficult for argument's sake.

                  1. Beelzedad profile image61
                    Beelzedadposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes well, there are so many definitions of gods floating around these forums, it's hard to keep track, especially when so many of the definitions contradict one another.

                    So, what is your definition of your god?



                    In the way I'm speaking? How is that, exactly?

                    Nonetheless, gods can't die, so Jesus never died, if you believe he is a god.



                    Yes, I understand you can't explain your beliefs without invoking magic.

                    That is the difference between you and I, in that you won't accept being handed "proof positive" whereas, I would. If you can provide "proof positive" please do, if not, then you're tirade is just another logical fallacy.



                    My "beliefs" if that's what you prefer to call them, are based on the laws of the universe and nature while your beliefs are based on magic. Massive difference. One end of the spectrum of rationale and reason to the other end.



                    Yes, failing to see the point of a discussion has been mentioned to you on several occasions. smile

                  2. Pcunix profile image87
                    Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Your religious  beliefs are not rational. They are illogical, inconsistent and full of contradictions.

                    We have few real beliefs. We generally accept theories as reasonable and likely, but are always open to new evidence.

                    That is why.

      2. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
        Slarty O'Brianposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        So what evidence are talking about?

        1. profile image0
          just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It's a personal thing, on a personal level..I can't explain to anyone. People who have experienced know what it feels like. People who haven't think you're crazy if you try to put it into words. Sorry. I only posted to him so he would understand that the answers given make sense to those that posted, even if he couldn't understand why.

          1. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
            Slarty O'Brianposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            It makes perfect sense to me. I was raised catholic so I know that feeling of being watched by god, to have it in you, so to speak. When you are taught religion from an early age it is hard not to feel that constant presence.

            Religion plays on a part of the brain Dr Persinger of Laurentian U calls the religious center. He did a lot of work with EM and found that along with sensory deprivation he could manipulate a certain part of the brain with an EM pen and produce vivid religious experience.

            People under his pen had all kinds of experiences including talking to Jesus, god, Buddha, demons, angels, aliens, dead people, and even people they had met in the hall while waiting to see the doctor, who obviously did not share the experience. They all said their experiences were ultra real. One person said they experienced the best sex they ever had. Probably an atheist.

            No one is sure what survival function religious feeling played in our evolution, if any. Or if it is just a center that creates vivid reality scenarios for us as part of some other function. Probably to do with imagination and creative thinking.

            Obviously it is not a portal put there by god as some suggest, because not everyone has the same kind of experience. Buddhists see Buddha, Christians see Jesus and demons and angels, and some people talk to living people who are not in the room, and obviously have not had a real conversation with them.

            At age 6  I realized there was something wrong with the catholic church. I could not reconcile the loving god I was taught about and hell fire and damnation aspects the priests were giving sermons about. But I kept my religious feeling for many years after. I had a real lust to know what was really going on. What was life all about?  It took a long time to get rid of catholic or Christian religious feeling completely, and reading the bible was the biggest help in that endeavour.  Catholics are not allowed to read it, or weren’t when I was a kid. But when I did, I realized how irrational the story of the Christian god is, and it really opened my eyes.

            Not that I even meant to lose it. I went from religion to religion, from eastern back to western. In Zen I learned to reconcile paradox, which is something I needed to learn. I was able to accomplish almost every state of mind the Hindu’s talk about when describing enlightenment. I even had out of body experiences. The only thing I could not accomplish was levitation, which would come in handy in the real world. I learned that it is all the brain. You can manipulate it to see, feel, and experience whatever you want. To this day I can, at will, set an entire orchestra playing in my head and hear it as clear as if it was actually there playing in front of me. I keep that because I like it.

            But then I found science, and it was like the most profound religious experience I ever had. Particularly the laws of conservation and the laws of thermodynamics. I know that doesn’t sound like profound stuff, but to me it was like a kick in the head. They explain the behaviour of everything, including human relationships, perfectly. 

            Perhaps that religious center is what makes revelations so powerful and meaningful? But after that moment, religion seemed to melt away naturally for me. Just as some people suddenly find god in a profound way, I found science in exactly the same way. And from there, materialism and atheism were not far off.

            So while I understand that people have religious experiences, as I have had them myself,  I have to question what they really are. I will never question that someone has had a profound experience, only how they interpret it. You cannot trust your mind. It will tell you all kinds of stories. What ever you want, in fact. That’s why I practice non-belief. I believe nothing, while conditionally accepting facts. I use the scientific method in my thought processes. But yes. I know what you are talking about.

            1. qwark profile image60
              qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Slarty:
              Excellent!
              That was a masterful precis on ones growth from pubescent ignorance to adult enlightenment!
              I enjoyed that read!!
              It should have been a "hub."  smile:
              Qwark

              1. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
                Slarty O'Brianposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks. I refined it a bit and published it a few minutes ago. wink

                1. qwark profile image60
                  qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Slarty:
                  I hope that many read it!  smile:
                  Qwark

                  1. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
                    Slarty O'Brianposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Thanks. Me too. wink

            2. profile image0
              just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Slarty, I usually refrain from reading Hub sized posts.  I've always considered them signs of an overly developed need to preach a point, but I felt some curiousity so, I trudged through yours. Although I am perfectly willing to put up with the atheist view I have grown tired of it now, so unfortunately I have chosen your post to reply to.



              Please do not presume that having been raised Catholic gives you some insight into the religious mind of another. With the host of saints your childhood religion claims as patrons, I do not doubt that you have felt watched over.  I cannot speak for the average Protestant, but mine was an upbringing that included two things only.  We went to church on Sunday, and we knew that to take the Lord's name in vain would result in a punishment worth avoiding.  The protestant education I had was little more than a lot of singing, passing the plate, and about a 15 minute sermon before we all headed to lunch. We were not a pious bunch.



              I don't know that I have had vivid religious experience.  I suppose if I thought I saw an angel sitting on my shoulder, or had tea with God, maybe.  I have little more knowledge from my limited experience than to be able to state, unequivicably, that there is more to this world than we can see.  I attribute it to God, and I admit I could be wrong. But, due to the nature of the knowledge, I don't think so.



              Religion does not appear to me to have anything to do with a survival function in modern society.  Quite the opposite has been my observation. If you belive it has to do with imagination and creative thinking, perhaps you need to read a little more.  I have seen quite imaginative works by professed atheists.



              Interesting statement.  Never having had any experiences as you described, I wouldn't want to comment, or judge. This is one of the problems I have with those of no faith.  It is, in my opinon, the height of arrogance to assume you know the truth of another person's experiences.



              I understand completely.  I believe organized religion has built fantasies around a basic concept in order to ensure a wealth of topics to preach on, and to control the masses.  The Catholic church has had much more time to fine tune this concept, so I would imagine their philosophy to be highly entertaining to an adult and confusing to a child.



              I have heard this before.  I am sorry that you were raised in such an environment.  I was allowed to read, if I so chose.  I never bothered.  I didn't read the Bible until I was well past 18.  I won't bore you with but a small amount of my interpretation. The history of the Old Testament was shown to help us see that the world without the Love of our fellow man or God was untenable. The New Testament is primarily there to show us another way.  Basic end of story.  The need to read too much into this concept and build a faith of exclusivity is sad, but does not reflect on the intent of our Maker.



              Good for you, I say.  I believe we all have a piece of the truth. All religions are trying to share the piece they see.  It would do everyone good to follow in your footsteps in their quest for knowledge.



              I understand your statement.  I find science exhilarating too.  Our quest for knowledge should not be limited to one avenue. We have the right, as a species, to search for the answers to the secrets of the universe.  I anxiously await each new discovery.  But to believe that we know it all, and science is the end all quest is, in my opinion, searching with blinders on.



              If it makes you happy, then it is the right path for you. I don't know that I would believe anyone could be happy with materialism as part of their core belief.  Atheism, I have no idea.  I have run across a happy atheist or two. They appear to be very far and few in between. The atheists I have encountered appear to me as little more than bitter about their lot.  It comes off as sad.  Although my heart goes out to them, I can hope that someday they find the peace we all deserve.



              I fear I would doubt this statement.  It has been many years since I felt the Hand of God move in my life.  It is something that has stayed with me.  I am not an irrational person and I would attribute the experience to chance if it were, in any way, possible.  I have certainly tried.  I do not believe that anyone that can rule out all other possibilities could do any different.  But, as always, I could be wrong.



              OK, I was done responding, but I had to comment on this.  Give me a break.  With no knowledge of another, how could you make such a statement?  This flippant disregard for the intellect and honesty of your fellow man is one reason that I find the atheist viewpoint so impossible to follow. Having no knowledge of the experiences another person has had, I tend to err on the side of caution.  I would never consider brushing them away as if speaking to a child.  It would leave me little room to learn.

              1. Slarty O'Brian profile image88
                Slarty O'Brianposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                "Slarty, I usually refrain from reading Hub sized posts.  I've always considered them signs of an overly developed need to preach a point, but I felt some curiousity so, I trudged through yours. Although I am perfectly willing to put up with the atheist view I have grown tired of it now, so unfortunately I have chosen your post to reply to."

                Well. My desire is not so much to preach as to explain. I did a hub on your comments explaining why atheists are obnoxious. That may explain some of this to you, if you can trudge through it, of course.

                "Please do not presume that having been raised Catholic gives you some insight into the religious mind of another. With the host of saints your childhood religion claims as patrons, I do not doubt that you have felt watched over.  I cannot speak for the average Protestant, but mine was an upbringing that included two things only.  We went to church on Sunday, and we knew that to take the Lord's name in vain would result in a punishment worth avoiding.  The protestant education I had was little more than a lot of singing, passing the plate, and about a 15 minute sermon before we all headed to lunch. We were not a pious bunch."

                That is the problem and what I try to explain in the hub I mentioned. All Christians are different. I don't presume to know what you experienced, I was just telling you mine, and that it too was religious based. Why Christians hate Catholics is beyond reason. But that too is par for the protestant course. Catholicism was once an ideal life, so I am told. Everyone knew their place in life and everything was standardized. It was all pretty rose coloured according to my mother. wink   

                "I don't know that I have had vivid religious experience.  I suppose if I thought I saw an angel sitting on my shoulder, or had tea with God, maybe.  I have little more knowledge from my limited experience than to be able to state, unequivicably, that there is more to this world than we can see.  I attribute it to God, and I admit I could be wrong. But, due to the nature of the knowledge, I don't think so."

                My point was that even without profound religious experiences, a childhood filled with religious ideas is hard to get away from, and most don't see a need to or have a desire to. So naturally you will attribute events in your life to your given belief, even if change religions, your belief that there is for sure a god is part of your thinking. But there is not for sure a god and your thoughts may well be just training. You have to figure that out for yourself.   Yes, there is much more to it all than we see. But it isn’t magical.

                "Religion does not appear to me to have anything to do with a survival function in modern society.  Quite the opposite has been my observation. If you belive it has to do with imagination and creative thinking, perhaps you need to read a little more.  I have seen quite imaginative works by professed atheists."

                Well you misread my meaning. I have met a lot of creative atheists too. My point was we have a part of the brain that be manipulated to see and experience things that are not there. So your brain can not be trusted to always give accurate information.

                "Interesting statement.  Never having had any experiences as you described, I wouldn't want to comment, or judge. This is one of the problems I have with those of no faith.  It is, in my opinon, the height of arrogance to assume you know the truth of another person's experiences."

                And that can be said of theists as well. But I was not assuming, merely explaining that the brain itself can be deceptive so interpretation of experience is not trustworthy.

                "I understand completely.  I believe organized religion has built fantasies around a basic concept in order to ensure a wealth of topics to preach on, and to control the masses.  The Catholic church has had much more time to fine tune this concept, so I would imagine their philosophy to be highly entertaining to an adult and confusing to a child."

                It is, as is the philosophy of all religions. And don't think for a moment that Protestantism does not set out to control the masses. Perhaps your brand does not, but I doubt it.

                "I have heard this before.  I am sorry that you were raised in such an environment."

                I was raised very well, thank you. Nothing to be sorry for. I was allowed to think for myself and leave the church at age 6.

                " I was allowed to read, if I so chose.  I never bothered.  I didn't read the Bible until I was well past 18.  I won't bore you with but a small amount of my interpretation. The history of the Old Testament was shown to help us see that the world without the Love of our fellow man or God was untenable. The New Testament is primarily there to show us another way.  Basic end of story.  The need to read too much into this concept and build a faith of exclusivity is sad, but does not reflect on the intent of our Maker."

                I think you have that wrong. The OT is there to tell you to obey god or else. The new is to tell you to love your fellow man and obey god or else. You are obviously not a fundy or you wouldn't cherry pick what to believe and what not to. But if you not base your faith on the literal word of the bible you have very little to base it on, indeed. If you cherry pick you are basically building your own religion.   That’s fine by me, of course.

                "Good for you, I say.  I believe we all have a piece of the truth. All religions are trying to share the piece they see.  It would do everyone good to follow in your footsteps in their quest for knowledge."

                Well that we agree on. wink

                "I understand your statement."

                I wish you had left some in so I knew which one.

                " I find science exhilarating too.  Our quest for knowledge should not be limited to one avenue. We have the right, as a species, to search for the answers to the secrets of the universe.  I anxiously await each new discovery.  But to believe that we know it all, and science is the end all quest is, in my opinion, searching with blinders on."

                No scientist in their right mind would tell you we know it all. In fact, that is the point of not believing anything. That includes scientific interpretations as opposed to facts. Using the scientific method as part of your thought process eliminates the idea that you know much of anything for sure. We think in probabilities and reasonable logical explanations. Or try to, anyway.

                "If it makes you happy, then it is the right path for you. I don't know that I would believe anyone could be happy with materialism as part of their core belief."

                I am not sure you understand what it means. I could explain it to you if you like. But it isn't a core belief, it is a reasonable model.

                " Atheism, I have no idea.  I have run across a happy atheist or two. They appear to be very far and few in between. The atheists I have encountered appear to me as little more than bitter about their lot.  It comes off as sad.  Although my heart goes out to them, I can hope that someday they find the peace we all deserve. "

                I found peace in atheism where as I couldn't in religion. Again, I don't think Christians can understand atheism and don't really want to. Some atheists can't understand religion, if they have never had one. It's the same thing. You should try it. wink

                "I fear I would doubt this statement.  It has been many years since I felt the Hand of God move in my life.  It is something that has stayed with me.  I am not an irrational person and I would attribute the experience to chance if it were, in any way, possible.  I have certainly tried.  I do not believe that anyone that can rule out all other possibilities could do any different.  But, as always, I could be wrong."

                Chance? In a cause and effect world there is no chance or truly random act. There is only cause and effect. But again, I don't know what statement you are talking about as you took it out.
                "OK, I was done responding, but I had to comment on this."
                On WHAT?

                "  Give me a break.  With no knowledge of another, how could you make such a statement?  This flippant disregard for the intellect and honesty of your fellow man is one reason that I find the atheist viewpoint so impossible to follow. Having no knowledge of the experiences another person has had, I tend to err on the side of caution.  I would never consider brushing them away as if speaking to a child.  It would leave me little room to learn."

                The brain is not to be trusted. It has nothing to do with you in particular. My comment had to do with all brains. Mine as well. That's the point. You too can have out of body experiences and gain a state of "enlightenment". The brain is willing. But it's a parlour trick. Not real. The brain is amazing. It can even invent gods.

                1. profile image0
                  just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Before I respond to any of this I would like to clear up what I think was a point you misunderstood. I don't hate Catholics. Heck, I was married to one. He hatred his childhood religion. I am the godmother to a child born with Catholic parents. I know nothing of the religion, except enough to say that those that stay faithful to their beliefs are more pious than I am. I could never let the Vatican shove my beliefs around, or tell some priest my sins. I am so sorry if my post appeared to you as if I felt otherwise. I believe all people, of all faiths, or lack of faiths, have a right to their beliefs. And I believe they are all equally right. I know this makes no sense, but we are unique as a species. We all have a piece of the divine and in that piece a truth.

                  I apologize too for the preachy comment. It is simply that, at times, I feel an atheist view comes from a misquided belief that the horse they sit on is so high that they must have used a ladder to  reach the stirrup. I have no problem with  nonbelief. I find it interesting, sometimes sad; but in the end it is simply a different point of view, in my opinion.

                  The fact that we disagree is clear. I believe a part of the divide may be attributed to your use of the word magic. I would not throw this word in the same category as a miracle. Call it what you want, believe what you will; but please do not forget that neither of us has complete knowledge. I use my mind, as I believe you use yours. I honestly believe, for the most part, this can be said of all.

                  Well, it appears I'm in jeopardy of posting a lengthy reply. I'll leave now to read your hub.

                  1. profile image0
                    Baileybearposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    you're female - sorry, I thought you were male!  Some people have mistaken me for being male too.

                    Maybe, it's our writing/thinking style?

  7. qwark profile image60
    qwarkposted 6 years ago

    Would someone be kind enuf to explain this "personal thing" that is so often mentioned about "knowledge" of this god thing?

    What is this "experience" that so many say happens that they can't explain, yet seem to think it to be so powerful that they guide thier actions and life by it?

    I know what the answers are I'm gonna get. They're gonna be the same trite answers I got in seminary.   arghhh!

    I'm just hoping for sumthin' well thought out and expressed by someone who isn't just expressing emotion.

    I think if someone could, I might be tempted to believe in "miracles."  smile:

    Qwark

    1. profile image0
      just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Qwark, you know very well no one can answer that in a manner that will suit you Why would you ask?

      1. qwark profile image60
        qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Curious:
        ..same reason ya'll have for your beliefs in supernatural heroes i.e. "hope."  smile:
        Qwark

        1. profile image0
          just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Deleted

          1. Pcunix profile image87
            Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Umm, we are watching like vultures.

            If you want to say something privately, send it in email.

            1. profile image0
              just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Darn you pcunix.  I should have known. Oh well, it sounded like it would be a fun thing when I posted back to Qwark.  I like him.  He posts pretty well.  He's either a peregrin falcon swooping in for the kill, or a crow with a sparkly. Both styles I find interesting reads.

              1. Pcunix profile image87
                Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                No comment smile

                1. profile image0
                  just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Hey pcunix. I have to say that was extremely considerate of you. I'm very impressed. I bet none of the other brethren would have been so kind.

                  1. Pcunix profile image87
                    Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    How many times do I have to tell you that I am always honest?

          2. qwark profile image60
            qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Curious: I have never been guilty of making fun of anyone.
            I might disagree and offer my opinion, bluntly and strongly.
            Or I might just say yours is but another trite religious opinion which has no basis in fact and is just imagined.
            Isn't that all we all have to offer: opinion?
            But remember I said a well thought out response not based on emotion.
            I'll leave it up to you whether or not to respond.
            Qwark

            1. profile image0
              just_curiousposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Can't. pcunix was kind enough to point out that Big Brother is watching. Anyhoo, I hope you find yours. You seem like a very nice guy. big_smile

              1. qwark profile image60
                qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Curious:
                NP man!
                I am a "good" guy! thanks!
                At least my son says I am...lol
                I'm gonna watch "Idol"
                Bbl....
                Qwark

  8. superwags profile image83
    superwagsposted 6 years ago

    Surely it's far more exciting, beneficial and interesting to search for the actual reason of our being here, rather than just mentally giving up and saying "god did it".

    So I guess in answer to the question; no.

 
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