AIG underfunded and unable to pay claims after bailout

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   pgrundyposted 13 years ago

   Saw this in the NYT this morning:
   
   http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/busin … g.html?hpw
   
   Basically, after getting billions handed to them on a silver platter, it turns out they have not been maintaining appropriate reserves to pay their claims for the past decade. This isn't just in the small unregulated department that insured securities but in their regular property and casualty business.
   
   This is all getting pretty sickening.

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      rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No wonder the top people are trying to bail.  Wasn't the CEO trying to quit until they gave him a bonus.
      
      It kind of reminds you of the monkey and the orange in a cage. The monkey hears an intruder but cannot let go of the orange in his hand between the bars of the cage.  His greed sets him up for his capture.  All too familiar a story with this wall street crowd. Never enough for them.

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      Google Galposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I'll bet  All the money was given out to top CEO Bonuses over the years , wasted and stolen , just like the banks did with the bail outs, It is sickening , and scary that this kind of thing can be got away with

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      MikeNVposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What did they get $160 Billion?  And they denied claims to those who were in last years plane that tumbled into the river.  And they continued to pay all their executives including bonuses.
      
      Don't fault AIG... they are just cashing in.
      
      Fault the Obama Administration who was so quick to just hand out the cash.
      
      How much cash did Obama hand you?
      
      If this isn't a clear cut reason to abolish the Federal Reserve so that money can no longer just be printed and handed out then I suppose there is not reason.
      
      Apparently and IVY League Graduate Degree is a free ticket to steal from the public.
      
      Got to match the market compensation so these Executive Geniuses won't jump ship and go off and drive other companies into the ground.
      
      
      

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         pgrundyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Obama is continuing bad policies that have been going on for decades. He hardly deserves all the blame for this but he deserves the blame for continuing it. He has basically just handed the keys to the car over to the same guys who wrecked the car. No reform, nothing, a year later.

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         blue dogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         mike, you might want to check your dates as to when all this started unraveling, and who was actually president when the first bailouts poured thru the floodgates.

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   Pearldiverposted 13 years ago

   Well it shouldn't surprise you Pam.
   They have maintained a very active underwriting program for that entire period!
   Who else was going to provide corporate guarrantees that their clients' junk paper wasn't junk paper
   
   Their bailout was justified wasn't it?
   Look how many Corporate and Government Financial 'Experts' would have filed for bankrupcy if the money wasn't used to ice the cake!
   
   Are they paying their ad-cents click accounts?

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   blue dogposted 13 years ago

   we're so far over the cliff.  people don't even realize the feeling of free fall. too big to fail.
   
   denial is a strange creature.

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      Pearldiverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Is This the general public feeling Blue Dog?

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         blue dogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         denial is everywhere.
         
         the free fall feeling is reserved for those who are aware.

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   pgrundyposted 13 years ago

   Yeah it's like that bit in the road runner cartoons where Wiley Coyote runs off the cliff and keeps running for minute, then looks at the camera before dropping like a stone.

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      prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      LOL

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      mel22posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly, Theres so many people already over the edge and havn't looked down yet. When the "bad " christmas sales numbers go out at the beginning of the year, those who refuse to look below will see the tops of the cliffs above them and finally sense the freefall. Not saying I wish for it. Thats just how it is. It's REALITY ! And if those numbers aren't bad then its because they're fudged as usual!

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   pgrundyposted 13 years ago

   Well, the thing is, wasn't the world supposed to end if AIG was insolvent? Does anyone remember that claim? We have to save AIG because an insolvent AIG will tank the world economy?
   
   AIG isn't a U.S. bank, it's an international insurance behemoth, so funneling billions of taxpayer money into it is unprecedented. It's just incredible. So, Ok, we did it. None of us wanted it but Bush, Paulson, and now Geithner, Bernanke, Obama continue with the 'too big to fail' line.
   
   So... given that AIG has insufficient reserves to pay its claims, even in its P&G division,after ALL OF THAT TAXPAYER MONEY, is the world going to tank or what? Was that ever true? If it was true, then now what?
   
   I mean, I can't believe how much crap we hear and how much crap we never hear. It's over a year since the crash and these guys at the top are still raping the world and wrecking their own companies whilst gorging at the public trough. What was true and what was a lie?

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      Pearldiverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Of Course.... Sorry (kiwi) I didn't consider the issue of 'funds management' of tax payer contributions.
      The company should have been broken down and distributed; as would happen to other companies with such liabilities. Perhaps in that way, more transpirancy would have identified the Whole Problem/Position of AIG.

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         pgrundyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Pearldiver I think a lot of these companies should have been broken down into smaller entities and parts of them allowed to fail. The fact that that still hasn't happened really bothers me.

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      sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      I think the feds should split the shares up to the tax payers because it rightfully belongs to us anyways, for the amount that was loaned to them. (the shares being worth the total amount loaned to them divided by the number of citizens which would make a share worthless)
      
      Then up and short sell the shares ( I know dirty eh?) for a fraction of the price and force them out.  That way the fed reserves gets paid back, and AIG goes under as it should and the people make a profit. 
      
      Granted it wouldn't be much but at least we could take AIG away from government control and put those greedy buttheads in their place and release us from the debt.
      
      Just a thought.

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         pgrundyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         That's a good thought! At least it wouldn't be the rip out that's happening now. I mean, people at the bottom will suffer no matter what, but at least that way we'd get a little back and the people at the top wouldn't be getting off scot free.

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         Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Good points all the way through. And doesn't this say something??? I mean if non-rocket scientists like all of us can figure this out, there must be some serious payoffs, threats, and contracts binding AIG together, as well as the other big money machines. And yet you and I take the hit. Pure, unadulterated bullsh**.
         
         I keep telling everyone I know to refi to a smaller, reputable bank if they can. I'm one of them. I'm getting as far away from Countrywide who was bought out by Bank of America as I can. Trying to get info from them that is real was a nightmare. So I'm going through a credit union who is working with a lender who has an established history of NOT selling their mortgages. All that being said, there is nothing to prevent them from selling them off if they want, and I realize that's how the game is played, but I at least am taking some control back for my situation.
         
         I think all these big money machines should be put out of business and we support those that are smaller and more reputable. And if there aren't any, start creating some that are.
         
         Bust'em up. Kill 'em. The only way for us to participate in that is to not support them as much as we can. Pull out our money and put into other institutions, and all that crap.
         
         Riots in the streets still might happen. I think that's what Michael Moore was hoping for with his "Capitalism" movie. But as usual (and deservedly) he is a volatile mix, and whether or not he was completely right, he won't be seen as a serious source by a lot of people.
         
         But if there are riots in the streets, it will be because of further exposer of these money machines, the government's intrigues with them, and the media breaking down the walls of secrecy and exposing how much fraud there is in this hide-the-penny-under-the-cup game.

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            pgrundyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I'm with you on all of that Dan. I also think people have to seriously look at their work (those who are still working) and ask themselves if what they do is supporting some behemoth that rapes and pillages for profit. If so, I think we each have a responsibility to scale back, radically if necessary, to a lifestyle we can afford without being bought off by pirates.
            
            I'm not saying it's easy, but we all could try harder to starve the beast. Let it fall. Start over.

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               sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I think we should also amend the Constitution to state something to the effect of there being no less than 3 currencies circulating within our nation at any time.
               
               Somehow or other protecting us from banking or money monopolies.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Pgrundy, I've taken a look at the entire situation in America, and I don't want to sound rude, per se, or even arrogant, but at the time that AIG was in trouble, had it fallen it would have crushed what Economic data that was available. Therefore, like Bear Sterns, the investment bank, which failed because it couldn't be saved by 'legal' means, were forced to close. Had AIG had to close their doors, then all the debt and covered policies tied to "Wall Street" would have been devastated the World Economy even more, because of the complex interconnection it shares in many other Countries.
      
      
      
      The only people who really understand what happened during the credit crisis, realize what had to happen, in order, for AIG to accept 'taxpayer's tax dollars' was those companies who were able to transform their operations to a 'bank' or a 'bank holding' company, so as to receive assistance from the government- which AIG did for their banking investment division.
      
      The "TOO BIG TO FAIL" scenario is B.S. and has been. because if you look at the companies that did transform their businesses over to being a 'bank' or a 'bank holding' business, haven't changed back to their 'original' status and continue to reap the benefits of being solely a 'bank' or a 'bank holding' company, instead of being an investment firm or a brokerage firm. Example: Citigroup is an insurance company that was made a banking holding company so it could 'legally' receive funds.
      
      
      
      The 'taxpayers tax dollars' was not suppose to prop up the entire company. The money received was to help them get thru the recessionary period, but what many do not realize is that only $186 Billion was given to a company that had assets that were able to cover the 'loan' given. AIG has well over 500 Billion in total assets, so lending or loaning money was a safe bet. AIG can take now and have a little less of an impact than it had previously, unfortunately, if it does tank, then the government will be lucky to get back what it spent.
      
      
      
      What was truth? What was a lie? Well, that's kind of hard to figure out, because of the 'spin' out of Washington, the Treasury, and the Federal Reserve Bank.
      
      What many Americans' don't realize is that the "Federal Reserve Bank" is NOT owned or operated by the U.S. Government and is a sole independent arm, which is designed from the International Community of World Wealthiest Banks. This is devastating to the U.S. Economy, but required because the U.S.A. is BROKE and has been since 1913 when the Federal Reserve Bank was enacted.
      
      That's the TRUTH!

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         pgrundyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I followed all that. I mean, I get all that.
         
         I think you are right about the U.S being broke. The Fed is an easy target right now, but I think it's more complicated than that. It's just easier for people to blame the Fed than to comprehend all the gazillion reasons the U.S. is broke.
         
         Honestly, I don't see this getting better. 2010 is going to be worse than 2008 or 2008. Over a third of U.S. homeowners are underwater on their mortgages. So really, they aren't homeowners anymore--they're just screwed. For now they are inside a home. They owe more on it that it is worth. Way more.

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   Mark Knowlesposted 13 years ago

   Pam - you need to watch this film:
   
   http://video.markpknowles.com/the-money-masters
   
   And remember that AIG poured a good proportion of the cash they received into European banks. Because they had insured their losses.
   
   "Rape" does not even come close.
   
   The film is over 3 hours - but filled in the "who on earth benefits from this," blanks for me.

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      pgrundyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      OK Mark. If you watched it, I will. I've seen bits of it and was put off by the ominous conspiratorial tone. I mean I distrust that whole "Bad banking Jews are out to screw us" mentality but I'll give it a chance out of respect for you, because seriously, this AIG thing really frosts me. It's one of those little "under the radar" bombshells that I don't understand why people aren't rioting over. Of course, I'm not rioting either. So there you go.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Some one I met here recently pointed me to it and it filled in some of the blanks I had. Most importantly - why? Who benefits? Why did the federal reserve - who's charter specifically is to "prevent asset bubbles," - allow this to happen?
         
         Just remember - the big few banks now own 22 million residential properties. And counting.
         
         You see them selling them off in a fire sale?

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            pgrundyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Good point. It's disturbing. I'm still in a standoff over my Indiana house--no one wants it. One year and counting since I've made a mortgage payment. Never thought I'd see that in my lifetime.

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               Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               They have 21,999,999 just like it at home and - my guesstimate - another 12 million in the pipeline. Not including the commercial stuff. The banks are the biggest property owners in the USA.

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   Pearldiverposted 13 years ago

   Nice Point Cagsil
   
   "What many Americans' don't realize is that the "Federal Reserve Bank" is NOT owned or operated by the U.S. Government and is a sole independent arm, which is designed from the International Community of World Wealthiest Banks. This is devastating to the U.S. Economy, but required because the U.S.A. is BROKE and has been since 1913 when the Federal Reserve Bank was enacted."

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thank You Pearldiver and also Thank You for your comments on my Hubs, and for becoming a Fan. It was a welcoming surprise when I woke up this morning. Greatly appreciated.

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   blue dogposted 13 years ago

   something connected to what pam brought up today, on a larger scale than most realize or are willing to acknowledge:
   
   http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/01
   
   and we haven't even scratched the surface of this sorry, sordid affair.

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      pgrundyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yes. Matt Taibbi has another Rolling Stone piece this month on the banks saying some similar things. He gets a lot of flak but at least he is trying to get some of this out there.

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   MikeNVposted 13 years ago

   And that's how business works in America.  You reward people for continually deceiving the public at large.
   
   Every executive at AIG got gigantic bonuses last year and will do so again this year.
   
   The people of the United States of America are slaves to the system. And until there is a revolt against the system it will be business as usual.
   
   Bankers control the media and spoon feed you only what they want you to hear.
   
   Consider the Exxon Oil Spill in 1989.  Fined $5 Billion.  As of this year after 20 years of appeals the punative damages were all but dismissed.
   
   This by a company that pulls in $40 Billion in profit a year.
   
   Corporate America is strong arming the people under the watchful eye of the Government.

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