HubPro Experiences?

1. 89

   wordscribe43posted 8 years ago

   I have been informed that one of my hubs is going to be edited by the HubPro "gurus".  Anyone have any feedback/thoughts about the end result of this process?  Were you pleased?  Displeased?  I am a little nervous only because the hub that was chosen is my highest earner by far.

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   1. 53

      kmackey32posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I had one edited and it looks better but I cant figure out if I lost traffic due to the edit or the season changed because it was geared toward a certain time of the year so I guess I will see next year... It was also my top earner. I wish they would take ones that have little traffic.

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2. 73

   KoffeeKlatch Galsposted 8 years ago

   wordscribe43  I also had one of my hubs edited.  I thought it looked better and I believe that I received a little more traffic.  I wouldn't worry about, I thought of it as a good thing.  It happened to be one of my higher earners.

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3. 59

   paradigmsearchposted 8 years ago

   When a hub gets edited these days, it means they're planning to move it to one of their niche sites.

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   1. 89

      Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You somehow made the niche sites like underground laboratories in deniable locations, lol.

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      1. 59

         paradigmsearchposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         

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         1. 84

            Jesse Drzalposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Looks peaceful.

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            1. 99

               DrMark1961posted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Probably not much traffic there.

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            2. 83

               Solarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               I thought it looked a little hellish.  Seems like the people are waiving their arms in despair. What is the title of the work?

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               1. 89

                  Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Under a Yellow Sky, I Waived my Arms.

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               2. 84

                  Jesse Drzalposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  On second glance, there does seem to be some lost souls waving indeed.

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               3. 59

                  paradigmsearchposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  The search phrase was indeed, "hades site:.gov"
                  
                  http://www.nga.gov/content/ngaweb/featu … ml#slide_9

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                  1. 89

                     Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     Chin up. No exploding chariots here.
                     
                     Soon a flotilla of shiny spaceships will arise from the underground workshops and break free of Panda's deathly gravity...
                     
                     Maybe Mark could record the event for posterity.

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4. 94

   agilitymachposted 8 years ago

   I've had several HubPro edits and snip edits.  The HubPro edit on my articles was well worth it.  The titles were better. (I have always been bad at headlines.)  They caught some errors, improved readability and made the layout "mobile" friendly.  As a former newspaper reporter, I am used to having my work edited.  If you are not used to having your work edited, it may hurt your ego.  You do have the ability to put things back the way it was, which I did with just a few of the edits.  If you are comfortable being edited, you will find it well worth your while. 
   
   The biggest downside for me was it took them days to get the editing done.  During that time, I couldn't access the article.  I am getting another article edited by HubPro here shortly, and I am looking forward to it.

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5. 89

   wordscribe43posted 8 years ago

   Thanks everyone for your feedback! I am just going to roll with the editing process, I suppose.

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6. 94

   agilitymachposted 8 years ago

   I just had another Hub edited by HubPro.  This time it was done EXTREMELY quickly!!  I love the new title, and the Hub looks great for mobile devices.  I am pleased with HubPro edits.

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   1. 89

      wordscribe43posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for your feedback!  I am just going to have faith!

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7. 89

   wordscribe43posted 8 years ago

   Okay, so it was edited.  I liked the edits, except they deleted my Amazon capsules.  So, I put the capsules back in because I make consistent money from Amazon on this hub. 
   
   Then they unfeatured the hub after I put the capsules back in because they weren't spread out enough throughout the hub.  I spread them out, now the hub is pending again.  I am going to be livid if it loses its SERP position due to being unfeatured.

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   1. 84

      Robinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I'm looking into your Hub and it should be featured shortly.  We converted your product capsules into links; I think that's where the confusion started.  It is unlikely it will lose it's serp position in the short period.  The moderator left you a comment about the defeaturing, but I'm sorry if it wasn't clear!  I know you've updated the Hub again, and I'm on it. 

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      1. 89

         wordscribe43posted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Oh thank you so much, Robin!!

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         1. 84

            Robinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Of course, and I'm really sorry about the confusion or anxiety this may have caused! 

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            1. 89

               wordscribe43posted 8 years agoin reply to this

               It's okay!  I appreciate the prompt response.  I do think HubPro is worthwhile but I just ran into some funny kinks on the flip side.

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               1. 84

                  Robinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  It's featured again. 

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                     wordscribe43posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     I saw!  Thank you so much, Robin.

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8. 84

   Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago

   I have a couple undergoing the process now.  So far I'm worried about two things:
   
   1.  They've changed the title on my best-performing Hub.   I don't have any contact info for the editor yet, but I will certainly be asking what method they used to choose the new title.   The old one has been carefully tweaked and fine-tuned over the years and I'm convinced it's the reason the Hub was doing so well, so I will need a strong argument to be convinced to change it.  From what I've seen, the editors have been chosen for their English language skills not their SEO skills so I'm dubious...
   
   2.  They have already removed my photo credits.   I'm assuming that's because they're going to replace the photos, but I think it's a bit rude to remove the credits for those photographers while the photos are still there, for however many days/weeks till the edit is complete.

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   1. 84

      Robinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      We haven't edited any of your beauty Hubs yet—although we have some in our queue.    The Hub you are referring to was snip edited by a moderator so that it can move to our new style and beauty site.  Personally, I think the title change is better.  It doesn't repeat a keyword and is more conversational (something I have heard from the horse's mouth that we should strive toward.)  I don't see any photo credits removed.  Are we talking about two different Hubs?

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      1. 84

         Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Ah, both Hubs have the HubPro symbol showing on them so I assumed they were in the process somewhere.
         
         When people like Simone and Ryan were educating us about titles, they were always emphasising the importance of using the right keyword phrases in our titles. TBH I've already forgotten what my original title was for the hair Hub, but it consisted of two separate keyword phrases, both of which I'd developed by using Google auto-complete and keyword tool. 
         
         So I'd rather have one or the other of those keyword phrases as a title, rather than something that "sounds good".

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         1. 84

            Robinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            This is such a great discussion, Marisa!  Thanks for bringing it up.  When Simone and Ryan were educating Hubbers on titles, they were correct at that time what Google was looking for.  I know when I did HubCamps, I also talked a lot about titles and keyword phrases.  However, Google does not treat titles the same way as it did a few years ago, and it is more sophisticated now.  I hope you don't mind me sharing, here is your old title:  How to Volumize Hair - add volume to fine and flat hair.  I completely understand your reasonings on phrasing your title as such and appreciate the work you did to find the specific phrases.  However, today, you don't need this extra wording; volume and volumize are seeing as interchangeable.  For example, if you look up the query "how to add volume to hair", you will notice the first result has "volumizing" in its title.
            
            Google will read your old title just like it will read your new title:   How to Add Volume to Fine and Flat Hair.  Plus, your readers see that the title is clean, understandable, and will likely trust your content more. 
            
            Google has said that titles should be conversational.  Of course, they still need to describe what your article is about, but I think there will come a time when titles become even less important.  Matt Cutts has said over and over that what really matters is that your title matches your content. 
            
            Thanks again for bringing up this topic! 

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            1. 89

               Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               This is why long-tail keywords are a good deal less relevant than they used to be. It is also why pipes in titles (the extreme manifestation of this ancient SEO technique) are not only irritating but pointless.
               
               e.g.
               
               Beginner's SEO|Get Google Traffic|More Visitors for Site
               
               Doesn't work anymore

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               1. 89

                  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I would agree with both you, Will, and Robin...as far as where the hub appears on a search.  Which search result is chosen by the searcher (except maybe the first place) is another matter, and I would think that pipes and multiple variations of wording could well attract a reader.  If they see just what they typed into Google, it could well tip the balance in their mind.

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                  1. 84

                     Robinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     That may be, but having multiple keywords in your title is seen as a heavy spam signal. Too many keywords in your title will likely cause more harm than good.
                     
                     If your primary focus for creating your title is for search engines, then you are likely doing the wrong thing.  Google can sniff this out pretty quickly and rightfully so! 
                     
                     I agree with you though, wilderness, your title should be specific so your reader knows what they are going to get from your content.  The key is to be organic. And yes, try to refrain from pipes!   

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                  2. 89

                     Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     Maybe it is just my overly sensitive BS detector but if I see pipes or multiple use of synonyms, I think:
                     
                     Weird use of English = equals weird writer
                     Repetition means someone is desperate for attention
                     Written by a machine (or someone wants to be one)
                     SEO nut
                     
                     Which all adds up to 'not a reliable source'.
                     
                     I don't think the average reader would think 'SEO nut' but all the rest would be kicking in at some level.
                     
                     This is especially true if the writers name is something like 'MarkettingJo' or 'ag3484bf'.

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            2. 89

               wordscribe43posted 8 years agoin reply to this

               It's different now from how it used to be.  It''s been hard for some of us to make that "mental switch" from the old days.  But, in all honestly- it's a relief not worrying about keywords now.  I feel like we are free to write "naturally" again.  I HATED feeling like I had to include my long-tails a certain number of times in my hubs (or blog posts).

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               1. 84

                  Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I never wrote like that, and always suspected that Google would tumble to obvious keyword use.  I have always written naturally, then analysed the text afterwards to check that I'm using a variety of useful keywords.  Since a desirable keyword density is now down around 2%, repeating the same keyword phrases over and over is impossible unless you have a very long Hub!

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9. 94

   Kylyssaposted 8 years ago

   I had one hub edited through HubPro Premium.
   
   Don't be put off by the poor grammar your editor may use in emails; the finished hub will not have the same issues.
   
   The editing itself wasn't bad. They clearly used a checklist to match it to a formula, but other than the photos not exactly matching the written instructions and being fewer in number, it didn't turn out too badly.
   
   It was a bit odd working with a HubPages editor because they don't interact like any of the professional editors I've dealt with in the past. The poor grammar in the emails was unsettling, as I'd never before (or since) interacted with an editor whose grammar was anything less than impeccable. The tone of communication was odd and more closely matched a teacher to young student dynamic than an adult editor to adult writer dynamic. They aren't really interested in your input as a professional editor would be and instead of asking you to rewrite something or to add content, they'll just do it themselves.
   
   You may have to explain things to your HP editor that may surprise you if you've worked with editors before. I was floored by a question asking what order the instructions on the tutorial were supposed to go in! I've written tutorials for print magazines and I've never been asked that as every other editor has always assumed that instructions were to be followed in the order written, left to right on each line and top to bottom on the page.
   
   Your grammatically correct idiosyncrasies are likely to be removed and replaced by more standardized styles of wording.
   
   All those departures from usual editor-writer interactions made me very nervous, but the results were fine.

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   1. 84

      Robinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Please give me an example of incorrect grammar in the emails.  I'm happy to update that if I have examples.  I wrote the emails, so I would love to update them if I have made an error!

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      1. 94

         Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Unless you used a pseudonym to edit, you didn't write the emails. I'll cut and paste some bits from the first email into a personal message to you. Later emails were a bit better, but that first impression is important.

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         1. 84

            Robinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I thought you were referring to the stock emails that explained the program.  Thanks for clarifying.

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10. 89

    wordscribe43posted 8 years ago

    I am going to scream (okay I already did!).  This hub went from pending to unfeatured  now,  And I'm not totally sure why it's unfeatured.  There was a style tip that said one of my images should be higher resolution, so I just deleted the image and now it's pending again.
    
    Note to self:  do NOT let them touch a hub that's already successful.  I am kicking myself now.

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    1. 99

       DrMark1961posted 8 years agoin reply to this

       It sounds like this hub was edited with the HP basic, and even if you think the changes were wrong (like them deleting your Amazon capsules) you cannot change them back or they might unfeature your hub.
       You cannot opt out of that program, so that "note to self" really does not mean much if you choose to write here.

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       1. 89

          wordscribe43posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          It was HubPro Premium, DrMark.

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    2. 84

       Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       How ridiculous that it can go through HubPro and end up with a low resolution image on it - was that provided by the editor?
       
       You already know the reason why it's unfeatured, of course - you were warned that if you put the Amazon capsules/links back in you'd be unFeatured, and that's exactly what they've done.  Maybe try taking out half of them and see what happens.

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    3. 83

       Solarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       HP HQ needs to talk to the editors about going overboard on removing Amazon capsules.  Those that sell obviously serve the reader and make money for HP and the author.  Relying solely on Ad Program money is a fading dream.  CPM goes lower every quarter, soon the sales capsules will be the only way for anyone to make money online.
       
       HP was once proud to tell us that they had negotiated 8% commission for us. For what purpose, to unfeature our hubs because we include Amazon capsules that solve peoples problems and generate revenue?

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       1. 68

          makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          It's been occurring to me for some time that if all the stories are true about the extent to which rather inexperienced editors have been removing Amazon modules which have earned steady income in the past - then HubPages is going to be "on its uppers" before too long.
          
          Advertising income for me is completely pathetic. I'm guessing the same is true for most authors - because it's not like I'm not getting traffic!
          
          Amazon is the only game in town when it comes to income - and if editors keep eliminating the income then the future is bleak.

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          1. 89

             Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

             Most marketers will avoid using affiliate ads on new sites for quite a while. It might be worth removing all affiliate ads from one of the niche sites as an experiment. If views rise significantly, it would be worth being more aggressive with Amazon after a period.
             
             As you say conventional ads are not delivering much these days, so I would prefer not to be involved in that experiment myself...
             
             Interestingly, a UK government spokesman recently announced measures to examine 'the devastating impact of adblocking software on publishers'. Might turn into a workable law, might spread to other countries.

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             1. 68

                makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I saw that - but the answer is very simple. The advertisers have to start being less aggressive, more relevant and create better adverts!
                
                I'm not averse to adverts per se - when they are relevant and in good taste - however I'd rather subscribe to good content MINUS ADVERTS which are irrelevant, loud, have appalling images that disgust me and generally behave like a teenage lout on speed!
                
                What the government doesn't seem to realise is that some of us will pay good money for access to a site which eliminates all advertising!

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                1. 84

                   Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                   I agree.  Will said, "Most marketers will avoid using affiliate ads on new sites for quite a while. It might be worth removing all affiliate ads from one of the niche sites as an experiment. If views rise significantly, it would be worth being more aggressive with Amazon after a period."
                   
                   The bolding says it all.  You should NEVER be aggressive with ads of any kind!
                   
                   There is indeed a theory that you should not put affiliate or Adsense ads on your blog until you have a large readership, because ads are annoying and can discourage readers.  However, that's based on the old-style affiliate/Adsense layout where a blog would be blanketed with advertising banners - which, naturally, would tend to put people off.  So you'd wait until  you had gained a few thousand loyal readers, then bombard them with advertising once they're hooked.
                   
                   The thing is, if you're choosing your products with care, so they're HELPFUL and USEFUL to readers and fit naturally into the post you're writing, then they're not going to annoy or discourage readers at all, so there is no reason to hold off.    If I had waited until I had a thousand views a day on my blogs, I'd have missed out on about $5,000 worth of earnings!

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                2. 94

                   Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                   Have you checked out the PetHelpful site yet? It may just be my experience, but the ads are actually related to the content or inoffensive over there so far.
                   
                   All I've seen are pet ads specifically related to the content of each article plus some inoffensive, normal ads that seem related to my own search history. For instance, I recently helped a friend research cars online before he bought a car so I'm seeing some tasteful car and truck ads on PetHelpful. Everything else is just normal household products and services average people might use.
                   
                   I was almost shocked to see relevant, pet-related ads on every page. They are closely related, too. For instance, a hub about caring for tropical fish had an ad for PetSmart (a US pet store chain) that was specifically about their tropical fish department having a sale. 
                   
                   I don't think I've ever seen such a closely-related ad on a hub before.
                   
                   I recently got out of the ISP monopoly that was blocking ads on HP (and everywhere else that used the same type of ads) to make their service seem faster and, while I was delighted to get all sorts of news feeds again, suddenly seeing the HP ads again was like seeing graffiti sprayed on all the articles here.

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                   1. 68

                      makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                      Don't know the url for the PetHelpful site
                      
                      So I thought for a bit and then went to the Home Page of HubPages and clicked the Pets and Animals Category http://hubpages.com/animals and lo and behold it's full of links to PetHelpful
                      
                      Now that is NOT what I call a completely independent site covering a niche - which as I understand it was the whole point of floating off the niche sites.
                      
                      Why should Google think any differently to me?

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11. 89

    wordscribe43posted 8 years ago

    Okay, so now the hub is back to EXACTLY the way it was after the HubPro edit.  And guess what?  I can't get it featured again.
    
    Emailed the team because I am losing my marbles with this.
    
    And I agree- chill about the Amazon capsules.  This hub made me and HP a lot of money with the darn capsules. 
    
    What a frustrating experience.

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    1. 84

       Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Did you ever get any direct contact from your HubPro editor? If so, why not contact them and let them know?

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12. 89

    Will Apseposted 8 years ago

    My first hubpro caused me horror (about five repeats of the same keyword phrase before you got to the end of the first paragraph). I thinned those out a bit.
    
    The other hubpro edits were fine. I didn't like the illustrations they supplied for one hub but they were OK for the target audience and that is what matters.
    
    I also learned a few things. Not much, really but every little helps.
    
    The pages have not been much affected trafficwise, except for one perhaps that seems to be doing better for the exercise.
    
    This kind of thing is a percentage game. We cannot see the stats but HP reckons it is worth it and I don't think they would spend the money if it did not work, overall.

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