AxleAddict Refresh

1. STAFF

   Paul Edmondsonposted 6 years ago

   For those of you that are writers on AxleAddict, we wanted to let you know that we are doing a small test on the site.  Our plan is to edit every article on AxleAddict in the next couple of weeks.  At this point most of the edits will be small.  They will include title updates, sharpening of grammar in first Text Capsule, layout updates (like adding bullets or numbers) that make it easier to scan the page, moving the answer of the title closer to the top of the article, summary updates, making sure the article is current and the removal of unuseful images, and/or the adding of an image.  
   
   We know that it's important to frequently update articles so that they are current, so, we are looking to see what happens to the sites overall traffic when every article has been updated in a short period of time.
   
   For folks interested, we continue to see frequently updating and making the best resources in the web a winning long term strategy.

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      TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Paul:  Since I have 153 hubs on Axle Addict, most of which are doing extremely well, your decision to edit all of them is overwhelming.  Also, one of your editors is making edits where none are needed, thus creating errors where none existed.  The edits I've seen are NOT small ones...they are causing me untold hours of extra and unnecessary work.  I have more than 3 million views right now and I suspect that with the added mistakes, my rankings will suffer significantly.  While some of the edits are merited, there are many that are not.  I should not have to rewrite every single article due to editor error and am very upset about this.  Normally I like the help of your editors, but there is at least one who has gone WAY overboard.  Please find out who is doing my edits and review their work before they send any more my way and please read the emails I have sent already that are earmarked for Robin because they explain some of the problems. 
      
      Grammar lesson for your editors...please share this:
      
      When creating a list where the items are part of the sentence, each item is followed by a comma except the next to the last one which has no comma but is followed by a conjunction and then the last item which is either followed by another comma if the sentence continues or a period if that ends the sentence.
      
      These items are NOT capitalized as they are part of the sentence, but is preceeded by a bullet.
      
      Your people have been changing this issue and doing so randomly, even within an article.  They have been capitalizing the items, ending them with periods or semi colons, placing punctuation before the final conjunction, etc.
      
      Here is an example of how to handle this issue correctly:
      
      I bought the car because it
      
      was beautiful,
      drove well and
      was inexpensive.
      
      Not
      
      I bought the car because it
      
      1. Was beautiful;
      2. Drove well; and
      3. Was inexpensive.
      
      Paul, this is basic grammar.  Any editor worth his salt should know it.  Please pass this on and please have your editors go back into my already edited articles and make the repairs so that I do not have to waste my time doing so.

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         jansharesposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         OMG, TIMETRAVELER2, awful! I hope this is fixed soon.

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         Dr Billy Kiddposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         An editor went through my top hits article. Views dropped but suddenly they jumped up dramatically. Calm down!

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            TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            You don't get it.  They are making mistakes...not just doing regular edits...those mistakes all must be corrected and with 153 articles it's an almost impossible task because I make HTML and unformatted text copies of each article that must be redone.  This is a very big deal and I cannot calm down  I shouldn't have to correct misakes that editors are not supposed to be making!  The latest one is an image that was dded to replace one that was removed...it was not sized, edited or credited AND it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic!

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         DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         I agree!  I recently had some major edits made to one of my articles on that site, and the changes were ludicrous.  One even ended up making the bullet list read like nonsense and was completely incorrect!
         They got an email from me on that, and many other problems with the edits in that piece.

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            TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Today I got one that changed out a good image with one that was absolutely horrible and did not really match the topic.  No accreditation, no sizing, no editing, no nothing.  The team really needs to do a better job of addressing these issues as it's obvious I'm not the only one having them.

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               Solarasposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               I have had similar image replacements. One links back to a broken link on Pixabay, so I have a broken link on my hub, that I can't fix unless I change the image. 
               
               I have had other main photos that were original photos, and quite nice, replaced with ugly dog photos on Pixabay. Why?

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      Guckenbergerposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Updating articles should also help bring in more website traffic over time.

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   paradigmsearchposted 6 years ago

   I suspect AxleAddict was picked for a reason. Both my articles have been inhabiting Google's front page for quite some time, but I think they have been dropping lower on the page fairly recently.
   
   As a side note, I hope the experiment is not perceived by Google as a major site overhaul; thus provoking Google to kick the entire site into their test mode process for who knows how long.
   
   Nervous in the service, as they say.

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   Will Apseposted 6 years ago

   I am waiting for traffic to recover. As things stand now:
   
   I edit a page with Amazon ads.
   An ed checks to see if the ads are being used.
   The ads are not being used because no one visits the page anymore.
   The ads are culled.
   If traffic ever returns the pages is still a non earner.
   
   I am a grouse hiding in a thicket because I know that, if I ever take wing, someone will blow my tail feathers off.

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   jansharesposted 6 years ago

   Paul, is AxleAddict the first test? Should we expect this "refresh" of the other niche sites, too?

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   Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

   Paul, Perhaps, your editors should assist us instead of bypass us. That way we all work as a team and have a mutual understanding of the process. We learn on both sides of the spectrum.

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      TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I've actually worked with editors who do just that, and the result is always good, but to get more than a dozen notices at once in my email inbox and to see such horrible mistakes is absolutely crazy.  A good editor would never do this, and before they're permitted to start editing, they should be "refreshed" about basic grammar and overseen for awhile.  We all make mistakes, but these are not mistakes...they are the result of someone being given a job to do who does not know how to do it!

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   theraggededgeposted 6 years ago

   "At this point most of the edits will be small.  They will include title updates, sharpening of grammar in first Text Capsule, layout updates (like adding bullets or numbers) that make it easier to scan the page, moving the answer of the title closer to the top of the article, summary updates, making sure the article is current and the removal of unuseful images, and/or the adding of an image."
   
   Paul, those aren't 'small' edits. Small edits are fixing typos and minor grammatical errors.

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      TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      +10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

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      DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I agree; I've had edits made that were nonsense, and in one case, the "moving the answer of the title closer to the top of the article" resulted in the editor creating an entirely new capsule, in which every piece of the article was answered right there, making it pointless for the reader to continue reading, as the entire article was a list.  This was not only pointless duplication, but also unintelligent!  When I complained, I was told about "Google prefers..."  yada, yada, yada... 
      I think I'm going to change it back, anyway, and if it gets booted off the site, oh well.

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7. STAFF

   Paul Edmondsonposted 6 years ago

   @timetraveler2. Please share a link and we will take a look.
   
   We know that refreshing content is powerful. What we haven’t done is refresh an entire site in a short period of time to see if we can create a site wide increase. Other than concecrntrating the effort to a single site, this is business as usual.
   
   Our culture is to test and look for ways to help talented writers get their share of traffic.
   
   At the end of the day, and through our 12+ years, we succeed together.

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      TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Paul: I sent emails yesterday afternoon that have several links in them that were supposed to be sent to Robin.  You've got them somewhere but in the meantime, here's one I have not edited yet.  It's a nightmare. https://hubpages.com/edit/changes/?edit=239899

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   paradigmsearchposted 6 years ago

   This site has not only survived the worst of the worst, it has prospered. I'm feeling optimistic for 2019.

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   lobobrandonposted 6 years ago

   This is an interesting experiment, Paul. Thanks for letting us know. It's going to be interesting to see if this moves the needle.
   
   I do see why TT2 and others are anxious about these changes though.

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      TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Lobobrandon:  Anxious?  You're kidding, right.  This is a total nightmare.  Maybe you should read what I wrote again...I have already fixed 10 hubs and 4 more await...new ones are popping up regularly.  Again...this is not due to proper editing...it is due to mistakes that editors have made that must be corrected...big ones!

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         lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah but you have 153 you say and therefore another 139 to go. I think anxious is the right word to use as per the definition.
         
         Anxious: feeling or showing worry, nervousness, or unease about something with an uncertain outcome.

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            TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I am not anxious...I am angry!  Big difference.  I am seeing corrections for things that are already correct and am being forced, as a result, to do a lot of work that is unnecessary.  Anxious is when you're concerned about something happening...angry is when it is already happening!

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               lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Of course.

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    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

    Thanks for taking a look Paul! I'd love to hear the outcome!

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    paradigmsearchposted 6 years ago

    TT2, I feel your pain. If it wasn't for certain (former?) editors; I'd have more than octuple the articles and double or triple the traffic/earnings I currently have. My forum rants about it at the time were true things of beauty; all to no avail. Alas, I have no advice to give; leastwise anything that would work. When it comes to articles I now generally follow the policy of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw5LaEzEcJw Come to think about it, I use that policy elsewhere as well.

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       TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks:  Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about:
       
       If you owe more on your camper, travel trailer, or motor home than it is worth, and you want to sell it, you’re going to find that doing so is going to be difficult.
       
       Notice the comma after the word trailer?  There is not supposed to BE a comma.  So I have to go back and take the time to edit it out because some editor doesn't know his or her grammar....times 153!  I've seen this same mistake numerous times, so don't think it's just one person making it.  What Paul may not realize is that he wants to do a test to see if editing all of the articles on AxleAddict will increase  the numbers...but what he does not realize, apparently, is that I probably have most of the articles on that site!  So he's basically doing a test that mostly covers the work of one person...that person being an individual who already has 3,225,000 views on that site.  By creating errors he is going to end up doing exactly the opposite of what he intended to do.

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          AliciaCposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          TimeTraveler2, I’m very sorry about the horrible situation that you’re in. The comma after the word “trailer” is really a style choice rather than a grammatical error, though. Some people like to use the Oxford or serial comma before ”or” and  “and” in a list of three or more items and other people don’t. I never used to use it, but I’ve become a convert because it avoids confusion. The APA Style guide recommends that writers use the serial comma, though it doesn’t appear to be a requirement.

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             Sherry Hewinsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

             I have recently begun using the "Oxford comma," even though that's not what I was taught in school. HP seems to prefer it that way.

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                theraggededgeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Me too, even though I'm British and we've never used it.

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             TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

             If it is a style choice, then why bother correcting it and causing all of this work?  I was an English teacher and unless something has changed, that is how I was always taught to work with commas.  Also, are we not supposed to be able to use our own styles of writing as long as they are correct?
             
             I got an email back from Robin stating that they'll "try" to leave the rest of my lists alone, but they are only part of the problem. Did you see the link I sent to Paul?  These people are making all sorts of errors with text as well as images, and yes, it is very upsetting.

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                lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Unfortunately, we cannot see those before and after edit links. Only you and the team can see them. You'd have to put up screenshots if you want the rest of us to see.

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                   TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                   I actually sent a link to Paul on this forum he that shows the insane edits.  You can click on it and see it for yourself.  There is so much there that it's almost impossible to even read the thing.  You need to understand, too...that every single one of my hubs has been moved to the niche sites and my page views and income have been off the charts.  I'm still earning 4 figures every month, even though this is my off season...so I don't want to see that messed up. The result of the link I sent was that the team reverted the whole thing back to the original and said they would try to avoid messing with my lists in the future.  This tells me there was nothing wrong with them in the first place!  Here's the link
                   
                   https://hubpages.com/edit/changes/?edit=239899

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                      lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                      Yup, but we cannot see what is on this link. Only you and the team can.

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                         TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                         That's strange because I just clicked on it and was able to see all of it.  Guess they blocked it somehow.

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                            lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                            No, it's something only you can see when signed into your account. If you log out or open it in private browsing mode (incognito) you will not be able to view it. It is supposed to be private between you and the team.

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                               TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                               Well, you learn something new every day!!  I've already redone at least a dozen of these things and right now there are about a dozen more...with more to come.  Some are coming through with just a comma change, but most are taking at least an hour each to repair.

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                                  lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                  Pff. Unnecessary work and a waste of time and resources.

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       TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

       One of the things that is upsetting me is that people who are not having this happen are being very cavalier about it...I don't think they'd feel that way if this was happening to them!
       
       I have two college degrees and a huge background in languages and writing and find it very difficult to have someone take my hard and correct work and tell me I'm doing it wrong when I know for a fact that I'm not.  It's insulting.

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    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

    I can't imagine what TT2 is going through. I am really sorry for all the stuff you are dealing with. That is why editors need to work with writers - not just go through an article or articles and edit and not say or show anything to the writer. 
    
    AliciaC is right it is not grammar error but a choice of style. If an editor can take the time to effectively explain this to the writer, all the better. Then, the writers write better or per the required style. Less editing occurs.
    
    I am not saying editors need to teach or handhold.  Send an email explaining why the change was made. This will put the editor in check, so they have to explain themselves, and fewer mistakes from the editor.
    
    My brother-in-law was an editor for a major newspaper and did this often with his writers. According to his wife, it made his job a lot easier.

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    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

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    Will Apseposted 6 years ago

    Given how dismal traffic is today, I reckon I might as well risk it and go for updates. Not sure I can do more harm than good these days, but might as well go down in a little spasm of activity.
    
    My beak is carefully parting the foliage.

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    ziyenaposted 6 years ago

    “The urge to destroy is also a creative urge.”
    ― Mikhail Bakunin
    
    I think Bakunin was onto something …
    
    Disturbed.

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    PaulGoodman67posted 6 years ago

    One of the big frustrations for me is when editors insert or edit info that is plain wrong. For example, I have several articles on spiders and they use the word "poisonous" rather than "venomous". I then get comments from readers correcting *me*. So I have to go and correct the issue.
    
    The problem is that it's not just happened once, but multiple times! It makes me look like an idiot, when it's an editing fault that's out of my control!

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       lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       That does take away a lot of the credibility from your work.

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       TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

       You should report this, just as I did.  It is the very thing I am talking about here.  They make mistakes when editing, I have to correct them, the article goes back through QAP, etc., etc...and we wind up with unending problems...multiplied by thousands of articles if they continue doing things this way.  Hard to have a life when they are sending edits faster than I can correct them!

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          PaulGoodman67posted 6 years agoin reply to this

          I think I will. Overall, my experiences of the editing has been good, I've seen some dramatic improvements in traffic. But some of it has been very poor. There's an emphasis on grammar, syntax, and some basic layout and SEO techniques, subheadings etc. The reason that some niches, eg Owlcation have been hit, however, is that readers don't trust the actual content. On that issue, I often trust the feedback that I get from readers/commenters more than anything that I get from HP editors.

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    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

    This is an example where the editors should communicate with the writers before making changes like this. Just terrible, and non-professional, it is not how an editor works with writers.

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    PaulGoodman67posted 6 years ago

    To be honest, most of the time, I just let the editors get on with it, their decisions on grammar and improving views are usually very good. But it does concern me when the quality of the content is seriously undermined. My understanding was that they were going to employ some "experts" to help writers and editors.

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    Natalie Frankposted 6 years ago

    I have had a problem with major edits for along time.  I have three articles that were overhauled through their proediting which this is sounding a lot like.  It was bad enough with three articles, which immediately plummeted and now between 6 months and 13 months later views have never even hit  what was previously the lowest number for any of them.  All three were filled with mistakes and I had to correct them though didn't put them back as I was told if I did they would be moved off the niche sites and back onto hubpages.  So I could have correctly written articles that were accurate with few views or articles that no longer said what I had intended and were filled with things that were awkward like multiple lists placed in a single article and definitions of things that had nothing to do with the article stuck in the middle of a paragraph with only a few dozen more views.The thought of them overhauling all of my articles on a single site is terrifying.  I understand if it's done correctly, gets more traffic and more earnings. But if there are mistakes and content is altered with things just stuck in for the purpose of experimenting not accuracy or improving articles it's a major problem.  I fight like hell to increase views, work on different marketing efforts, update frequently, test titles and article length, etc. If all of that work goes to hell because 50 or so of my articles get edited badly in one fell swoop, I'll have finally reached my limit.  Don't get me wrong.  Some of the editors are quite good.  But some of them are clearly not and are not well trained in proper editing.  This has resulted in countless inconsistencies between articles and even, as was already pointed out, within the same article.   I have no problem with them establishing stricter requirements over time with the responsibility falling to us to update older articles and incorporate these into new articles.  I also understand that when Google is transparent about a change they want to see changes need to be made because this benefits all of us across the site.  But again, it would be easier for staff to inform us what types of changes they would like to see made in general and for us to do it.  It a deadline were given to have these changes done by that would be on us.  It would be a lot less work on the editors parts to then go in after the deadline and check for changes, altering those that hadn't been edited.  Deciding to suddenly overhaul a site with thousands if not tens of thousands of articles over night is not a healthy way to go about this.  Even the best of editors would likely make mistakes rushing through it so the entire site could be updated in a very short period.  Letting us take responsibility for our own articles is the respectful way to handle it and would result in a lot less anger and dissatisfaction on the writers part.

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       TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

       I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've had, but I disagree that making corrections will get you bumped off of the niche sites because this is not in the best interest of the team to do if the article is basically good and the corrections are necessary.
       
       This is why I contact Robin directly when these issues come up.  I do this not only to inform her of the problem so that she can address it on the other end, but also to remind her that I was a certified teacher of English and pretty much know what I'm talking about when it comes to grammar! In the past she has told me it would be OK to make corrections where needed if I was sure I was correct.
       
       This does not mean I don't make mistakes...I surely do.  When editors correct those, I am very grateful, believe me.  Most of the time, this is what happens.  However, this time I think a substandard editor got hold of my stuff and went batshit crazy!  When I sent Paul a link to an article that had yet to be redone by me, his response was to simply put the original article back online...I'm sure the team took one look and realized the work involved in fixing it was going to be too difficult!  154 times is a bit more, don't you think?
       
       As it has turned out, editors no longer are fooling with my lists and series, so that has reduced edits considerably.
       
       I actually looked up the methods for creating lists and it turns out that there are several correct ways they can be done...including my own method.  Same thing with using commas in a series.  Therefore, there was never a need for correcting them in the first place.
       
       For me, the bottom line is that people should use some common sense.  Writers here who advised me to "calm down" don't realize that if this "experiment" works, they'll be next...then we'll see who calms down!
       
       End of rant.  Sorry.

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          Natalie Frankposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          No, I was specifically told by Robyn, that I had the right to decide not to accept the edits however, if I changed the article back it would be removed from the niche site and but back on HP.  This despite it originally being moved to the niche site immediately after passing Q&A without their editing. 
          
          The editor had no idea what they were talking about in terms of the topic and rewrote my content in a way that was completely inaccurate. I informed Robyn I had to correct the mistakes that had been added and needed to minimally reorder all the new content that had been added (and was entirely unnecessary and only tangentially related to the topic of the article) since things had been just stuck in arbitrarily breaking up the flow of the content that was relevant.
          
          They had also removed all of the photos which were perfectly legal and illustrated the points I was making and added one bad one at the beginning having nothing to do with the article which was also clearly copyrighted. 
          
          There was also a bit of a jab, suggesting that I just couldn't accept anyone editing my work with is offensive given that I when I write for professional journals my work is edited all the time.  The difference is it is edited well and not in a way that destroys the article to try to best Google's algorithm of the week with gimmicky strategies that will likely fall out of favor before too long necessitating another poor edit of the article. 
          
          I am a professional editor and have been writing for scientific journals (as well as reviewing and editing for them) for more than 25 years. I appreciate having my work improved.  I do not appreciate having it destroyed such that it makes me look like an idiot.
          
          That particular article was getting over 400 views by the end of the first week, over 600 by the end of the first month and over 1000 by the end of the second month and stayed between 800 and 1200 after that.  Within a month of the editing it was down below 600 and kept dropping until it was between 100-150 a day.  With the minimal corrections I made I got it back up to about 300 and have had a blip up every so often to slightly over 400 but have also had more and more days closer to 200.  Before they edited it, it had captured the snippet and kept it.  Now it's not even on the first page of the search results.  I have given up on getting the views back to where they were or even close but it was my biggest individual earner so I lost majorly.  That was one of three I had similar experiences with and the other two I also just gave up on after they also tanked and would not rebound.  Of those, one had the number one spot and the other had the number three spot and similarly both are now off the first page of results.

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             TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

             None of this makes any sense to me.  It seems that the team is cutting off its nose when doing things like this.  As I've said before, I accept most of the edits and formally dispute those I think are wrong.  When I do this, the team either explains why they made those edits and satisfies me or accepts my points and allows me to make corrections.  The way I look at this is if what they're doing is going to destroy an article anyhow, who cares if they remove it from the niche site?  It's not going to earn, anyhow.  It would be so much better for all concerned if the team would do as McKenna suggests.  This may be labor intensive, but the goal for all concerned should be to produce the highest quality articles possible, and the way to do this is to for editors and writers to collaborate.

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                Natalie Frankposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Absolutely.  And those in management have to set this as policy and ensure the editors are properly trained.

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    paradigmsearchposted 6 years ago

    I just plain got sick and tired of running to "mommy" every time I was "bullied". Not a criticism, you did the right thing.
    
    
    Rants are a good thing. Long live rants.

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       TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

       It is the responsibility of those running this business to address issues.  If you don't inform them of issues, they can't address them.  I rarely contact Robin about editing issues, but when I do it's because they are serious ones.  For the most part, in the past, editors have been extremely helpful, but apparently some of the new hires were not properly vetted.  They cannot know who they are unless we report problems.  Doing so helps everybody here, not just me.

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    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

    This is not a rant. This is an issue that HP team needs to fully consider. They are making edits that change the article. In such a way, that information is false. That is a serious issue. The protocol is to check with the writer/author prior to posting or publishing editorial changes. If not done, the ramifications are obvious. HP's credibility is white-washed.

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    DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years ago

    @ Natalie--I know exactly what you mean; I had "corrections" done that in one instance, gave away the full content of the article with the editor placing every one of the definitions at the top of the page in a new capsule.  Why would anyone read further?  I contacted them about this, and the reply was, "Google likes questions answered where people can see the answers right away..."  etc. blah, blah, blah.   To blazes with Google--it is a shame that they have become so big and dictatorial! 
    In another article, changes were made within one capsule which made it read like nonsense!  And yes, come to think of it, both were on "Axle Addict." 
    I wrote them a lengthy email about all the 'corrections' that were, in fact, INcorrect, and pointed out the slew of perfectly awful writing that still exists on the site as a whole, asking why they are not weeding those out, instead of picking on their better and best writers...so far, no reply....

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       Natalie Frankposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       It's definitely not a good feeling.  Sorry you went through this also.

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          DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Got a response from Robin.  She agreed that one of the edits was 'bad,' and I was free to change it back.  (Already beat her to the punch!)
          
          She then 'explained' that they are doing this 'test' on all of Axle Addict, as Paul said in his OP here;  however, the very fact that the articles on this site (as on any of the niche sites) were chosen to be moved in the first place, was because they were better-written and comprehensive articles.
          Ergo, why pick on a niche site instead of clearing out the crap writing from the rest of HP??!!

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    paradigmsearchposted 6 years ago

    Well, from what I'm seeing, AxleAddict is still perking along and the experiment has done no harm; editor issues aside. As a matter of fact, I've been doing the same update stunt on my website for years. One difference is that I don't have "January 2019" plastered on every page; I let Google's algo subtly figure it out on its own over time, thus it's not traumatized into thinking it's a major overhaul, etc.. However, it's looking to me that the specific "identical" dating isn't going to hurt anything here. Now if every page on the site was dated on the same day as well, that might trigger something; but that's not the case here.
    
    I wonder what our next drama around here is going to be (famous last words).

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       TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

       I don't know how many people write articles for AxleAddict or how many they have on the site, but I'm pretty sure that I produce more than most.  I have done extremely well this year without many edits...been making 4 figures most months  and still am.  They're even correcting hubs that are scored in the high nineties and some that have been scored as 100!  Each hub takes me between 45 minutes and an hour and a half to review, correct, copy in HTML and again in unformatted text.  Just think of the man hours involved here...and for what!  I admit that some of the edits are good ones, but there are far too many, such as creating extra long paragraphs whee bullet lists existed before, that I think are wrong for them to do.  I use those lists to clarify certain points that I feel are important, but an editor who is not into RVing would not understand that. Doing the best I can, and I sure hope this thing doesn't backfire with what you said about the dating from Google...that would be absolutely horrible!

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    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

    That is nonsensical. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, which is applicable for AxleAddict.

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       PaulGoodman67posted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Google reacts positively to edits. It sees it as a sign that the page is not being neglected by the writer and info is being updated. The approach by HP is reasonable, even if some of us have gripes about a few of the previous edits.

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          DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Google shoud NOT react positively to BAD edits!!!  Perhaps if, instead of just barging in on our articles, the editors would instead email us suggestions for edits WE could make...there wouldn't be such bad blood about the process...

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25. 92

    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

    A few of the previous edits? It's more than a few. Read Paul's post.

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26. 92

    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

    These reports are disheartening.

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    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

    I am sure there are guidelines for the editors. Just add this step: Contact writer about the new edits and make sure they are factual.

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       TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

       I doubt they'll ever do that because it would take too much time!  However, I am toying with the idea of starting a new post where writers can place lessons for editors online that deal with mistakes they've been making.  What think you?

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          lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          If they look at it, it is well worth the effort.

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          Shesabutterflyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          The author at Delishably use to do that before the merge to Maven. I had two articles that had major overhauls done BY ME! The editor and I were in contact for weeks trying to get the article just right. I got to make all the changes and do all the edits, which is how it should be. She didn't touch anything that wasn't already pre-approved by me.
          
          I've read through this whole thread and am really saddened by what I've read. I've had a major overhaul done by an editor, but not on the scale (article wise) of what you are experiencing now. I could not imagine having to do the amount of work I had to do times 200.
          
          I had people telling me to "calm down" too, but they really don't understand unless they have experienced it. Like Natalie, I also had a bit of a jab by hp about not being able to accept edits. However, they took it a step further saying they would never put my articles on niche sites if that's what I wanted. Not sure how they got to that extreme position. Obviously I want my articles on the niche sites. Want I don't want is an editor pushing their own ideas into my work. There is a huge difference. As an author you shouldn't have to worry about an editor coming in and forcing their style into a piece. That's not an editor's place.
          
          Small edits are totally fine. Adding content and making changes that are not necessary, or worse false, are really harmful not only to the site, but to the author's creditbility and I don't understand why hp doesn't think this is a big deal.
          
          You have proven yourself a real authority in your niche and your numbers should be proof of that. I'm really sorry you are having to go through this TT2.

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             TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

             Thank you.  I do appreciate all of the support you and the others here are providing.  Just now I had to fix a title.  The editor obviously did not read through the article, thus added wording that made it off topic from what I had written.  What these people don't realize, at least about me, is that some time ago Robin provided me with a resource that I use constantly to produce the best possible titles.  The editor's title actually lowered the searchability score of the title in addition to defocusing it.  My mailbox is so full of edits now that I have decided to rework two to four of them daily because there is no way I can do all of them in a short period of time.  This translates to me not being able to write any new articles on either of my new sites for almost two months!  In the end, all of the articles will be better, but whether they will improve enough to make a big difference in ranking and views remains to be seen.  Time for a nice glass of wine!!

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             lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

             You seem to be describing the HubPro Premium editing which is done by the best editors on the team who contact you before they begin working on your article. These edits that are happening now are not the same and that's bad.

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                Shesabutterflyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                I've never had one of my articles go through hubpro premium.
                
                Edit: The above example about working together was not a hubpro premium edit. The editor simply e-mailed me before they would accept my article on Delishably and wanted me to go a slightly different direction than what was in the article, and wanted me to add quite a few more sections. I did all the work and we exchanged several ideas until we found something we were both happy with.
                
                Editors at Delishably use to do this all the time before the standard "your article was not accepted" e-mail, became the norm. I wish they would go back to that. It was a lot easier to edit and fix issues when you knew what they were. If I don't get that e-mail, I get accepted and editors fix or change without e-mails. Most of the time it's fine, because it's small fixes, other times however, it's like what TT2 is experiencing now. Although I have never had that many articles done, especially at one time.
                
                I just wish they would go back to communicating with us. It's our work and we should get the chance to make edits. When things are substantially changed like what TT2 and everyone else is experiencing over at Axel Addict, the work becomes not 100% theirs and I really don't think that is okay. Especially when it is their name and authority that is on the line.

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                   TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                   +1,0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

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                   lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                   That's nice. It should be like that all across.

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                TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                She's not.  I've had editors communicate with me specifically in the past about regular edits, and by working together we were able to produce terrific edits.

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                DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                In a college creative writing class (note "creative" in the name of the class), I had a disagreement with the prof. about one of my poems.  He wanted to change some things, and insert this, that, the other.  Had I complied, it would have become HIS poem, not mine.  So, in reply, I turned in a new blank verse poem which read,
                
                "I work long and hard to birth my poems;
                Who would edit them,
                Dismembers my children."
                
                Yes, a very brutal metaphor, but I stand by that sentiment.
                If my articles are to be edited, I would appreciate the chance of a consult beforehand.

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                   TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                   I love this!  As I've said many times, if I have a typo, use the wrong word or mess up punctuation, I have no problem whatsoever with being corrected.  Even when the order is changed, etc, I have no problem.  However, when mistakes are created where there were none before or corrections are made that are not required, I have a problem.

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                      DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                      ++++

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                GA Andersonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Lobobrandom, I must have missed something. I have had hubs go through HubPro Premium editing, and I only found out after-the-fact. There was no advance notice or "working together."
                
                [ADDED] Oops... I went back to check. My edits were Hub Pro edits, not Hub Pro Premium edits. My bad.
                GA

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                   lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                   

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    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

    That's a good idea. In the long run, why should seasoned writers be given extra work because of ignorant editors?

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    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

    Ahh, so it works!!

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       TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

       You bet.  It also creates a great working relationship between writer and editor and saves a lot of hard feelings.  Why irritate people when simple explanations can keep things running smoothly?

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    paradigmsearchposted 6 years ago

    God Dmn It! What with my doing a January update before the AxleAddict refresh project began, I thought I was safe.
    
    (*I've deleted the rest of this rant.*)

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       TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Welcome to my world!  So much for staying calm!

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          paradigmsearchposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          
          
          The only stolen copy has already been taken care of: https://hubpages.com/community/forum/34 … -to-weebly
          
          I've unpublished the mangled article here in preparation for transferring to my website. Once Google removes the obsolete URL here, I'll publish there.
          
          A very interesting thing happened the last time I did this. If it happens again, I'll post about it. Some of you probably won't believe me; but it will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

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             paradigmsearchposted 6 years agoin reply to this

             Update. Second article got edited. This time the changes didn't make the article look like it was written by an ESL writer. As for the first article, am still waiting on Google URL/cache removals.

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             paradigmsearchposted 6 years agoin reply to this

             An update. Am still waiting for that "interesting thing". Has to do with the Google algo. Beginning to not look promising, oh well.

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          Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          I really feel for you. I've had ridiculous edits made to some of my articles, because the editors don't understand the topics. I agree the editor should alert the writer and they should work on any changes together.
          
          I have whole series that are split between two or more niches. I've had to explain how astrology profiles and archetypes are two different things. I often wonder where they get these editors from. I hope you are listened too, although I find, in general, there is less cooperation and we get more non answers said in an overly cheerful manner.
          
          It would hurt the niches if they discourage us so much we stopped writing new material (and yours is evergreen, like mine).

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             TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

             Well, they have listened to a certain extent.  Recently the edits have been less invasive...not all, but most of them.  They've pretty much left the lists "as is" and, as of now, I haven't heard anything about the re edits i've done in some places.  This has been a  huge amount of work for me, but views are rising...not enough yet to merit all of this hard work, but at least rising.  Still have around 60 plus to go..doing some each day.  Wish this would end!

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                paradigmsearchposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                I got around to checking my second article more closely. The good news is that the editor was obviously a pro; a lot of good improvements were made to the article. The ambiguous news is that the personality of the article and the way the reader was spoken to were changed somewhat. Because of the the obvious good changes, I'm taking the editor's word for it and leaving the perceived ambiguous changes alone. As previously mentioned, the article has been inhabiting Google's front page for years; we'll see how it goes.

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                   TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                   Keep us in the loop about this one.  Will be interesting to see how it does.

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                      paradigmsearchposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                      If it drops off the front page, my rant will be awesome to behold.

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31. 90

    DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years ago

    

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       paradigmsearchposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       It's ok. I didn't even get my security blanket out of the closet.

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          DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          LOL

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32. STAFF

    Paul Edmondsonposted 6 years ago

    We finished the update.  There has been a noticeable uptick in traffic to axleaddict 4-5%.  My hope is that the trend will continue. 
    
    The plan is to continue to evaluate the results as we return to our normal cadence.

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       wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Good news!  I found only two errors in the edits to mine - one appeared to be something wrong with a link and the other where an editor changed a singular to a plural incorrectly.  The team fixed the first and I just changed the second back to what it was.

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          TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Lucky you!  The refresh may be "over", but I still have tons of hubs to check, update and correct.  Could take me another month. 4-5% is a very small increase compared to the time and effort it has taken me to deal with all of this.  Let me add that since I had to do this anyhow, I've also been updating images, reposting  to Google Plus and My page on FB, making bios more appropriate to titles in addition to  working with Paul and Robin to correct major errors.  The finished articles definitely are an improvement and views have gone up, but Adsense is still paying very little and CPMs are nowhere near what they were before.

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             wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

             Yes, CPMs are way down from a month or two ago, and so is traffic overall.  But that's not surprising as it happens every year after the holidays.  We'll hopefully see a gain in a few months, come spring, in both of those.

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    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

    It's good to hear there is an uptrend after the edits. I notice that, too, when I update and edit my own articles.

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34. STAFF

    Paul Edmondsonposted 6 years ago

    Keeping articles fresh and continually improving is the best method I've seen to sustaining traffic.
    
    Note to self to edit my articles:)

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       lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Continually improving, yes. Some of them cannot be refreshed if they are fact-based. Some facts don't change. But they can be improved

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          TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

          One thing this refresh has forced me to do is update many of my older images.  I've learned a lot since the early days and also have been able to access more PD photos to add to my collection, so updating is making a huge difference in the way my articles look.  I actually had started doing this on my own awhile back but kind of let things slip due to health an other problems, but am back on track now.  Also finding that changing titles can also bring improvements.

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             lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

             Changing titles is the best thing to do on underperforming pieces. Did you become better at searching or are there just more images out there now?

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                TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Mostly there are more images.  New sites such as Unsplash have been very helpful in this regard.

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                   lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                   Great. Yeah, Unsplash is a nice place to find stuff.

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35. 92

    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

    Exactly, I catch my stupid mistakes, too.

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36. 92

    Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

    I agree. There are simple ways to tweak an article.

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37. 90

    DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years ago

    "Some facts don't change. But they can be improved."  Hmmm...well, I don't quite get that--facts are facts, and while they may change or become "improved" with ongoing issues, when it comes to history, it's already set in stone, and it's rare for anything to change the past. 
    
    When our view/understanding of the past does change, it often takes many years for that change to become understood and accepted. 
    
    A classic example:  the Great Pyramids in Egypt.  While they were once thought to be tombs, there has been much recent research showing that not to be true.  Why?
    Because tombs were highly decorated with "instructions" for the soul to follow in the afterlife. 
    Yet the insides of these great structures are devoid of any artwork at all.  There is a very interesting series available on YouTube, with interviews featuring native researchers who have stated this point.  (One person in particular commented that when inside, he felt as though he were in a machine, not a tomb.)
    
    And yet, we are still being "taught" and "informed" that these were Pharaohs' tombs.  How long will it take for history to "catch up?"

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       Will Apseposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       I missed this before. The sad fact is that facts are never settled. Every generation revisits the established truisms and frequently they are overturned.
       
       Generally the victors write the history to glorify themselves. And then some upstart comes along and points out that these accounts are not necessarily reliable.
       
       Cui bono (who benefits) is a wonderful principle if you happen to be interested in an approximation of the truth or a set of truths that might have  a bearing on reality.

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       lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Lol. I said the articles can be improved. Not the facts. The information could be presented better and clarified, etc.
       
       The past cannot be changed, but our view on it can. Also, facts do change all the time. It was considered fact in some parts of the world that the Earth is the center of the universe, but that fact was overruled. Even in Physics and Mathematics, some facts don't hold if the frame of reference changes.

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          DrMark1961posted 6 years agoin reply to this

          I got a laugh out of that comment. All I could picture was some guy at the pyramid is his foil hat, sitting in Cheop´s burial chamber and saying "This thing is a machine. If only I knew where the controls were I could make it fly."

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             lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

             Haha. Hopefully he wears his tin hat so that aliens don't get to him once he figures out their technology.

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38. 0

    Will Apseposted 6 years ago

    I always look for public domain images with CC0 attribution. I crop them, adjust the levels of color and light, flip them and essentially turn them into images that Google sees as original. This is pretty cynical. But there you are. Google wants original, it gets original.
    
    Also, I rarely come across an image that is perfect as it stands. An image really needs to support the text as closely as possible or it is just a meaningless filler and an irritation to readers.

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    1. 76

       TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

       I also edit every photo I use simply because they look better when I do...and, I also try to make them appropriate to the content.  I think this is extremely important to do, also.  Same with ads.

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       PaulGoodman67posted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I may try that myself.

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       Solarasposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Unless they are pictures of puppies.  I have read that it is so, in the new hub publishing tips.
       
       

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          DrMark1961posted 6 years agoin reply to this

          
          
          I agree, but of course I think the only thing better is an image of a monkey playing with a puppy.

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39. 60

    paradigmsearchposted 6 years ago

    I wonder which niche site is next...

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40. 79

    Solarasposted 6 years ago

    LOL -How is the cocoa farm going?

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    1. 100

       DrMark1961posted 6 years agoin reply to this

       One step forward, two steps back!
       (The little monkey playing with the puppy destroys anything I try to do, but I think it is curiosity, not malice. Try planting some new trees? She will pull them up to smell the roots. Fixing a barn? She will tear open a wall to look inside. This afternoon she pulled up a bunch of pineapple tops that I had planted so that they would root.)
       I just wonder when monkeys manage to get any sleep.
       
       
       

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          theraggededgeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Oh... what a cutie! So teeny. Looks like you have an opportunity to do something productive as her eyelids are drooping.

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             DrMark1961posted 6 years agoin reply to this

             This is the look she gets after destroying my corn field, breaking a bunch of eggs from my chickens, pulling down a bunch of papaya, and finding a wild bird nest that she can plunder. A 20 second nap and then back at it!
             I wish I could repair half of what she does in that time that her eyelids are drooping.

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                Solarasposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Be careful what you wish for - lol.  How old is your baby Gozarian?

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                   DrMark1961posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                   Nicki is 4. She should be slowing down in about 20 years or so!!
                   I took this picture in my back yard yesterday afternoon.
                   
                   
                   
                   Pretty cool looking beast. I tried to tell him to stay around as long as he possible, but unfortunately he was gone this morning.

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                      lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                      Is that a sloth or something else? I like your backyard, lots of interesting stuff happening all the time.

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                         DrMark1961posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                         He is a three toed sloth. The species that are usually in the nature photos, and in zoos, is the two toed sloth. Sloths do not do much, just hang around and eat leaves, but I think they are amazing animals.
                         Unfortunately I do not see them enough. My back yard borders a large jungle so I get lots of snakes, some tamanduas, armadillos, coati, and a few other things. It is great but hard to do things at time. Do you remember last year when I said I wanted to do an experiment on tomato plants? I put in two rows, they were doing great, and then one day a band of monkeys came and pullled them all up. (Just for fun, I think.)
                         Oh well. I would rather have the monkeys.

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41. 86

    theraggededgeposted 6 years ago

    I can do puppies
    
    
    
    They aren't hers... and they aren't actually puppies.

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       lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       But they ... sooo smaal. Like puppies

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          theraggededgeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          We call them 'the puppies' but they are four years old. Two full sisters and their half sister. That's just four of the six.
          
          We have gone so far off topic.... better get back to the subject. I wish I could remember what it is.

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             DrMark1961posted 6 years agoin reply to this

             But I thought this was a thread about puppies! Oh well.

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                theraggededgeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Oh alright. Here's another one. One of the 'puppies' with the great big puppy, Dante.
                
                

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                   DrMark1961posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                   Why do I keep getting a notification in my feed about an axleaddict refresh forum? This is obviously the cute puppy forum thread.

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                   Guckenbergerposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                   I love pups. ^_^

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                      Kenna McHughposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                      

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42. 77

    lobobrandonposted 6 years ago

    Bev told me we got to get back to topic. So I kept quiet even though I wanted to say something about the monkey. The betrayal that I feel. Betrayed by loyal doggie pics.

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       Kenna McHughposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       

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          lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Haha

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43. 100

    DrMark1961posted 6 years ago

    
    
    That last post was kind of off topic.
    Back to the real thread: Cute puppies.

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       theraggededgeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Gorgeous. Is that one of yours?

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          DrMark1961posted 6 years agoin reply to this

          No, I have a client with Sibes but I think it is wrong to have that breed down here. Her dogs spend the day in her house in front of the AC, and then in the evenings spend all of their time at the beach, in the water.
          I have Pitbulls, a short haired breed that is much more comfortable down here.
          
          
          
          
          (They do spend a lot of time just sleeping though.)

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44. 86

    theraggededgeposted 6 years ago

    Here are my puppies when they were puppies.
    
    
    I wish we had a sloth

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45. 90

    DzyMsLizzyposted 6 years ago

    Indeed--they've obviously mistaken this for a "how to" Q & A column...

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46. 79

    Solarasposted 6 years ago

    So many great puppy photos! Not to mentiion the beasts lol.  I wish we could just "like" on photos and not have to add +1000000000 to the thread.!  Thanks everyone for feeling free enough to follow the conversation a bit for a change. Meow

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       Will Apseposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       If I knew who your responsible adult is, I might have a word or two about letting you out on your own, lol.

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