HUBPAGES CENSORSHIP - MY CRY OF REVOLT!

1. 62

   anime_nanetposted 14 years ago

   SORRY I HAD TO CREATE ANOTHER FORUM THREAD AS MY ORIGINAL ONE WAS CLOSED TO REPLYS. I ALREADY HAVE THE FEEDBACK OF THE HHUBPAGES TEAM NOW I WANT THE OPPINION OF OTHER HUBPAGES USERS LIKE MYSELF.
   
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   MY HUB:
   
   The anime world has two designations that can sometimes be confusing to newbies. Those are the terms Ecchi and Hentai.
   
   Ecchi (エッチ) is derived from a Japanese word meaning, as an adjective, "lewd", "sexy", "lascivious", or "naughty". It can also mean sexual intercouse when used as a verb or noun.
   
   The term ecchi is applied to anime or manga that has vague sexual content (such as skimpy clothing, partial or full nudity), but does not show sexual intercourse.
   
   Typical Ecchi features include:
   
   <ecchi description snipped>
   The ecchi art style is loosely comparable to pin-up girl artwork, as well as to provocative fantasy and comic book art in the United States and other countries
   
   Hentai (変態 or へんたい) is a Japanese word that can be used to mean "metamorphosis" or "abnormality". It has a negative connotation and is commonly used to mean "sexually perverted". In the West, is used when referring to sexually explicit or pornographic comics and animation, particularly Japanese anime, manga and computer games.
   
   Hentai anime allow elements of sexual fantasy to be represented in ways that would be impossible to film. This may include portrayals of sexual acts which are physically impossible, unacceptable in society, or run counter to social norms.
   
   The scope of hentai encompasses the entire range of sexual fetishes, including:
   
   <hentai description snipped>
   
   THE HUBPAGES TEAM SAY ON IT:
   
   Hello,
   
   
   As we stated before, we do not allow content with descriptions of sexual activity on HubPages. Rather than post a forum thread with a link to other offending content, please flag it and we will remove it as well.
   
   
   I will outline the major adult violations in one of your hubs, "Ecchi Anime vs Hentai Anime"
   
   
   1. The first image is of a female figure groping another female figure's breasts.
   <adult image snipped>
   2. "This clothing outlines the shape of the breasts, nipples, and labia, suggesting sometimes arousal."
   3. "Skimpy bathing suits with crotch lines showing and sides of breasts showing."
   4. "Upskirt panty shots and cleavage."
   5. "The groping of breasts (whether intentional or not)."
   6. "The scope of hentai encompasses the entire range of sexual fetishes..."
   7. (the entire list under the above subheading)
   8. The entire last paragraph
   
   
   These descriptions, coupled with the Amazon capsules with content related to these descriptions, fit our definition of "pornographic...vulgar, obscene" (please see section 4 of our Terms of Use).
   
   
   If you have any more questions on our adult policy as it relates to your content, please direct them to our team inbox. We have already established a line of communication here with you dating back to May 28th. The forum is intended for new user questions or initial requests that can be handled by experienced site users.
   
   HERE'S MY ORIGINAL MOTIVES (as seen in another Forum Thread):
   
   I'm not talking of removing the ads. Some of my hubs (I'm refering for instance to the difference between Ecchi and Hentai and to the List of Ecchi and Hentai Animes - that just had links that pointed to Wikipedia pages) didn't have ads since the beginning but they we're removed altogether after being 2 years active.
   
   So either you changed the filter algorithms or you have you mods went on an removal spree.
   
   I talk about anime. A part of anime is Ecchi and Hentai. Yes, it's controversial subjects, but I never put no naked women cartoons on my hubs or something... Sugestive imaginery I did, that's true, but most of the cases (especially this 2 hubs I mention) it's just covers for some of the shows, that are used as reference.
   
   Some hubs I don't even contest as I can see your reasoning for removing - i did push over the edge on those ones. But these I strongly disagree!
   
   Publish Hubs or Hub or Author Content that include any content or links that are pornographic, defamatory, libelous, tortious, vulgar, obscene, invasive of privacy, racially or ethnically objectionable, hateful, promotes or provides instructional information about illegal activities, promotes any act of cruelty to animals, or is otherwise offensive.
   
   Not one of my hubs are pornographic:
   
   "Pornography or porn is the portrayal of explicit sexual subject matter for the purposes of sexual excitement and erotic satisfaction."
   
   
   I pride myself of being original on the hubs I write so I don't think they're vulgar.
   
   I don't know if you consider the description of what is hentai obscene - I consider it informative.
   
   As watching Hentai is not illegal - and certainly not Ecchi! - I think it can be considered "promoting or providing instructional information about illegal activities".
   
   Now Hateful... that is the point. I don't hate no one. But maybe someone hates me and that's why my hubs are going down  Just kiding (whistles in the air...)
   
   Or maybe their offensive to someone... maybe a mod. But hey, Darwin was also quite offensive to many religious people when he said we we're born from monkeys....
   
   .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
   
   SO WHAT DO YOU THINK FELLOE HUBBERS?
   
   IS MY ARTICLE A "OBSCENE AND PORNOGRAPHIC ONE" OR A INFORMATIVE ONE?

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   1. 0

      Stevennix2001posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      well i have to say, i actually did read the hub in question that your talking about, and quite frankly it sickens me.  not your hub, but the hypocrisy of the hubpages staff.  as i read several hubs that describe ways on how to make a woman achieve a g-spot orgasm that are way more graphic than what you wrote.  plus, i've even seen some hubbers here just create hubs with little texts but a lot of pictures of barely clothed girls, as they leave little to the imagination.  therefore, I don't understand where the double standard comes from. 
      
      however, this is kind of why i always try to avoid writing about hubs that involve a lot of sex oriented topics in general.  as i originally wanted to write a film review on the movie, Kinsey, a doctor who founded and explored the concept of sex during a conservative time period; starring Liam Neeson.  I was even going to put in links that lead to Dr. Kinsey's research notes on various sites and his bio.  However, I choose not to in the end, as I wasn't sure if that would be miscontrued as promoting sex or anything that would get me in trouble with hubpages.  This is kind of why I always try to lay low with movies that are technically safe.  Sure, I have a few that are questionable, but nothing that's too controversial....at least i don't think so. 
      
      However, if i were you, I'd e-mail hubpages to find out exactly what is that caused the problem.  from what it sounds like, you might just need to change a few words and some of your pics.  what i normally do whenever i need or have to say a bad word on one of my hubs, I censor it.  like I'll say, mel f***ed his cat, and shot his son of a b**** brother in the back.  you see how that works?  granted, that's a bit extreme, but just giving out an example.  lol.  anyway, i hope that helps.  sorry to hear that your hub got taken down though.

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   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   I think you better create your own site and post there whatever you want, and stop littering the forums with your whining...

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      anime_nanetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ditto

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      LaMamaLoliposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ditto! Lol

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      watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      How kind !

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3. STAFF

   pauldeedsposted 14 years ago

   Since we removed adult content more than 3 years ago all hubs have been required to be compliant with the AdSense Program Policy.  There is a check box in the settings of every hub where you confirm that your hub is compliant.  If you actually read the policy, it's pretty clear that your hub is not compliant with it.  Even you state that "The scope of hentai encompasses the entire range of sexual fetishes", which is clearly prohibited by the 4th bullet point.
   
   It's a nice hub that is well put together, but unfortunately it simply isn't compliant with the rules.
   
   https://www.google.com/adsense/support/ … wer=105957
   
   The AdSense network is considered family-safe, which means that publishers aren't permitted to place Google ads on sites which contain adult content. In addition to photos and videos which contain nudity or sexual activities, here are some other examples of unacceptable content:
   
       * Lewd or provocative images
       * Crude or indecent language, including adult stories
       * Sexual tips or advice
       * Sexual fetish sites (e.g. foot fetish content)
       * Adult toys or products
       * Ads or links to external sites containing adult content
   
   If your site has content which you wouldn't be comfortable viewing at work or with family members around, then it probably isn't an appropriate site to place Google ads upon.

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   1. 62

      anime_nanetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I know that full well paul, I actualy didn't had Google Adsense publicity displayed on those hubs already.
      
      If I don't have adsense ads in those hubs how can I  be breaking Adsense Policy?
      
      This particular hub is like an encyclopedia article concerning these topics - it explains what things are, while trying to remain neutral.
      
      That is why I'm truly complaining. Why can't it still be published but with no Ads as it once was?

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      1. STAFF

         pauldeedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         We'll take this under consideration.   But essentially you're asking that we return to policy that we had when we first launched which was basically "anything goes" as long as you identify whether it's AdSense compliant accurately.  I don't think that most would welcome a return to those days.

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         1. 62

            anime_nanetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            So you had a change of policy along the way that I wasn't aware of. I undestand why you did it as well. But let me suggest making this question to hubbers themselves: maybe with a poll in Hubpages Blog or something, where you could get more accurate feedback on what people think regarding this issue.
            
            Unless you have already done it and of course you have data available to you I don't.
            
            Even though hupages is a private site with it's own rules, in the spirit of the web it would be nice to at least collect people thoughts on sensible issues like this and others, even if you would not implement them in the end.
            
            Just my two (final) cents :^_^'

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            1. 0

               Norah Caseyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               The changes Paul referred to were put into place before you signed up with HubPages.

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               1. 62

                  anime_nanetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I've been here for 24 or 25 months. If that is true, than I realy misinterpreted the rules. And also, since that hub stayed up for so long time without the ads it also induced me to think it was ok to do this, since I was not harming (in my view) Hubpages concerning Google Adsense.
                  
                  That was why I was so suprised to seeing this and another hub (also with no ads whatsoever) taken down at the same time.

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                  1. 0

                     Norah Caseyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Hubs remaining up should not be taken as an indicator that the content is acceptable. There are thousands of hubs published daily, and we are unable to review every single one. Typically, we only review hubs that are flagged by users or by our filtering systems.

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                        anime_nanetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I stand corrected Norah. I'll try not to make the same mistake again.

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                     watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Because there is a New automatic filtering system. And your hub got spotted by it.

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      PhoenixVposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Is there any way or any plans in the future where a Hubber who "starts and originates" a thread could delete inappropriate posts from other Hubbers? On that thread they started ?
      
      Thanks

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4. 70

   Cagsilposted 14 years ago

   I find your post, completely out of line.
   
   HubPages follows it's money maker GOOGLE Adsense and it's TERMS OF SERVICE!!!!
   
   Censorship????? Don't like it too bad. You do not own the site and you must work with GOOGLE Adsense, just like the rest of us.
   
   Your hubs are being censored? Of course they are going to be restricted in some way, because of the TERMS OF SERVICE of GOOGLE Adsense.
   
   You coming out here to post in the forum is in POOR taste, considering your last one was closed to reply. The community of writers do not have a choice with regards to the TERMS OF SERVICE of GOOGLE Adsense and those who earn(like me) don't need you screwing things up.
   
   Revolt? Not likely!

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   1. 62

      anime_nanetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Cagsil, I am just stating this. Why can't we write good hubs, albeit about provocative subjects, if we just don't togle adsense on.
      
      Yes I know, this is not my site, it's hubpages. I'm just proposing a feature here.
      
      I don't use Hubpages for the money. If I did I would write about Finances, or Insurances or Rare Cancers or something. I f I wanted it I would post hundreds of picures with bollywood actresses. I joined hubpages because I could write about the topic I liked in a way I liked (without offending no one).
      
      I thought all things we're ok. I got warnings about one or two hubs but I worked it out via mail and corrected things. I never raised a fuss in the foruns because of it.
      
      This time I complain because I truly feel this hub as a right to be on.

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         watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I agree with you, but it seems the staff doesn't. so I think you should change some things and that's it.

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   watchyaposted 14 years ago

   SO WHAT DO YOU THINK FELLOE HUBBERS?
   
   IS MY ARTICLE A "OBSCENE AND PORNOGRAPHIC ONE" OR A INFORMATIVE ONE?
   
   
   I think is very informative.
   But Adsense is Adsense ,the Internet God
   You sinned against the God, you get banned from Paradise.

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      anime_nanetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Just let it be the without any ads as it was before!
      
      That's all I ask.

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         anime_nanetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Sorry about my bad english. I am not a native speaker and I don't have spelling checker in this pc. My bad.

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            watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            It's not easy from Portuguese to English

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6. 60

   watchyaposted 14 years ago

   Why don't you change some words that are offensive to some ? You can publish the hub, changing some pics and some phrases. That's all. It would be a wonderful hub nevertheless.

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      anime_nanetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Of course I'll do that eventualy, if I want to get it published. It would be aceppted then, but it wouldn't be so desciptive of what ecchi and hentai genres are. I might as well just put 3 or 4 phrases and then a link sayng something like: if you want to read more go to Wikipedia.
      
      This is the reason why I claim the C Word (as in Censorship) on Hubpages. If it's an  encyclopedia article (like informative and useful), if it has no links to adult content, if it does not have ads of Google why it can't exist?
      
      I understand Google policy. My hub could be considered adult, it's on hubpages, so Google can block Ads from all the Pages of Hubpages. I understand Paul Deed I really do.
      
      But can't there be a middle place here? This hub has not pornographic movies, it doesn't even comples you to watch hentai - it just describes what hentai is. Hubpages is clearly not an "sexual fetish site" - it's an article submitting site -  a very good one!
      
      Yes, I know me complaining won't produce results and can be seen as whinning by some, but I'm venting a real concern here.

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         watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I understand but, the rules are the rules. If you want to publish it without censorship you can do that in ABC tales. They let you publish whatever you like.

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         Anesidoraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I sympathize with you, really I do, but I just don't see anything wrong with the rules. HP gets to decide what kind of content they want on their site, for whatever reasons really, but my observation has been that they only limit for the purpose of increasing the revenue flow -which affects all of us.
         
         This means there are some topics which we can't write about here, or which we must write about in creative ways. Maybe find another venue for the hubs which go into details HP doesn't want on their site, and then write shorter hubs here on that which link to your fully detailed articles elsewhere. You may have to use a chain of links, since you can't link to pornography, but I'm not sure your stuff would qualify as that, so you may just need one link out.
         
         If you really know your stuff about anime, maybe you could start planning your own website. Build your content here and elsewhere as needed, making sure you own the copyright, build up your knowledge base on that and on web marketing, and then when you have enough content and your ready to build your own site, transfer most of it over, and write shortened hubs or articles here and elsewhere that link directly to your own site.
         
         Find a way to get what you want by using the system that exists.

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            watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Well said !

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7. 85

   Len Cannonposted 14 years ago

   This is definitely an attention grabbing headline.

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      watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Meaning ???

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         Len Cannonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Uhhhhhh pretty much what it says.

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8. 59

   Anesidoraposted 14 years ago

   I could write a very informative hub about the art of penilingism, and I'd bet it would be far more useful than your anime hubs, and would undoubtedly improve the lives of many.
   
   I still can't post it here. Get over it.

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      watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Everybody knows about that. How can you improve someone's life by writing a hub about it ?
      

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         Anesidoraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Oh you'd be surprised.

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            watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I don't think so.
            There's something called animal instinct. We all have it, and in the end we all find the way to get there LOL

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               Anesidoraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Well, I wouldn't waste my time arguing with you about it, but you seem to have taken offense.
               
               There is animal instinct, long suppressed in many people and needing some awakening, and then there are refined -or not- techniques and the inner freedom to express both the animal and the courtesan. 
               
               If you're still offended somehow, or still think everyone out there is highly skilled at it, then I'll leave you to your opinions.

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                  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I just saw your reply !
                  How can I take offense from so laughable a topic ?
                  You're funny !
                  

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   2. 62

      anime_nanetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I don't even know what penilingism is.
      
      How about this then: isn't it possible to have a sub-domain or something where some kind of hubs could be published without problems for adsense. I mean inside hubpages?
      
      As for finding another venue... I) don't want to find another venue. I have sentimental value for Hubpages!
      
      Edit creatively I will do: but I will still feel uneasy about it. And I expressed my uneasiness here.

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         Anesidoraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Don't get stuck on HP. I love HP as well, and think it's an excellent venue. But making HP the end-all of your internet marketing plans is going to limit you quite a bit. Especially if you want freedom to work in your anime niche.
         
         HP is great, but it's just one tool.
         
         Anyway, good luck to you.

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9. 59

   Anesidoraposted 14 years ago

   Just edit creatively or find another venue.

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10. 65

    relacheposted 14 years ago

    Private companies are allowed to set rules regarding conduct and content, AND IT'S NOT CENSORSHIP.
    
    You accepted the TOS agreement when you joined the site and that included wording that said the site could change the rules and wording that stated that you would agree that you'd accept those changes too.
    
    Don't complain about your own ignorance.

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    1. 62

       anime_nanetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You are right, Maddy is right, Paul Deeds is right. I know you are and I know what I signed up for.
       
       One thing I don't agree with you: Anyone can complain abouth anything. He might not be right (and I admit all is against me) but hell, let me complain all I want.. Discussion brings enlightment and can sometimes produce the best ideas.
       
       Anyway I wanted users feedback and I have them now. Thank you all for comenting, almost all were very helpful (except Misha of course, but I'm used to that).
       
       I have vented my frustations here. I won't rais another word about this subject. As always Hubpages staff we're very quick on replying to this issues and I always merit their professionalism. We just have a difference of oppionin on this matter and of course as mere user I don't have power over nothing, but at least I know my points we're heard from them.
       
       Hublove to you all!

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11. 0

    Good Intentionsposted 14 years ago

    I think rules are put in place to protect us.  Ground rules are ground rules, surely?

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12. 60

    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    I think it is clear that this was a cause of frustration - thats why the thread was started - I think Paul has given a good response - I dont think it helps to continue with this thread - tomorrow is another day - deep breath and walk away

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13. 77

    frogdroppingposted 14 years ago

    anime I completely understand your viewpoint. The same for HubPages. I also think it's fine for you to try and find a compatible solution, an answer, a bridge between the two issues.
    
    Is there some way of rewriting specific sections? Or start your own site and republish your articles, add others, and create a one stop anime site of your own? With work, research, you'd be surprised what you can do/achieve.
    
    For the record, HP's filter caught one of my hubs. It really is an inoffensive hub. The ads were disabled, until it was examined. Or so I/HP thought.
    
    They reviewed my hub as perfectly fine and re-enabled the ads. Nothing happened. Seemed to be a problem, perhaps software. The weekend came and went.
    
    Still nothing - which drove me nuts. Turns out ... HP never switched the ads off - Google has. That's not good huh? The hub does not fly in the face (at all) of TOS. And yet Google still sees it as a problem.
    
    I remain unsure as to what the issue actually is, I await an answer on that one. But - as much as the 'censorship' on HP is becoming a real issue for many of us - HP see no problem with my hub. But Google does.
    
    That's kinda worrying. Maybe we should take notice of the fact that Google is changing the way it works.
    
    And I know your point relates to keeping your hub published minus the ads - I'm just sharing my little HP filter/Google TOS experience.
    
    Sincerely I hope you find the best solution

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14. 61

    Jane@CMposted 14 years ago

    I hope you find your solution.  I have to agree that your own site might benefit more than this site.  No offense, but we are talking about cartoon genitals -

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15. 79

    RGNestleposted 14 years ago

    I love Anime and Manga. I draw it, I watch it, I read it. But I don't want to be caught off guard and see something that borders on porn while I'm looking through Hubpages.com.
    So listen, porn is Adult Content, but not ALL Adult Content is porn. It doesn't belong where young Hubbers (and there are a lot of them) can find it.
    "[Ecchi] is derived from a Japanese word meaning "LEWD", "sexy", or "LASCIVIOUS" when used as an adjective, or SEXUAL INTERCOURSE when used as a noun." (All your caps belonging to me.)You used this definition yourself. But you said it is more like "Pin-up Girl" art. That's just not the case. Not in its purest form.
    Ecchi would usually garner an "R" rating in the movies and, often, even an "NC-17".
    This site is "PG-13". Ecchi doesn't belong here and Hubpages.com isn't censoring. They are just making sure it keeps their "PG-13" rating and THAT IS THEIR RIGHT! You don't know how many LEGAL issues are raised if Adult Content is allowed on this site.
    If you don't like the Terms Of Service to which you agreed when you signed up with Hubpages.com, then find a site on which you can Blog. One where you can include whatever content you wish. It's as simple as that.
    Please don't take this as an attack on you or the things you like. It is simply an explanation to help you understand that your continued protestations are a waste of YOUR time AND of the Hubpages.com Moderators' time.
    Keep Hubbing! We're all in this together!

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