Out ranking search based SERPs.

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   WryLiltposted 14 years ago

   I'm sure you've all clicked through to one of these pages before, thinking it was on the subject you searched. However instead of a page on the subject, it's a randomly created list of results either as another SERPs page OR a list of related items (like amazon items).
   
   My question is - since these are not static pages, how hard is it to outrank these "search results" pages?
   
   Hope that makes sense!
   
   Edit: Here's an example
   http://www.google.com/search?hl=en& … p;gs_rfai=
   The first and a few of the subsequent results lead to pages like this:
   http://www.nextag.com/red-toaster/shop-html

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      Mutiny92posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I was wondering the exact same thing.  I have a few hubs that moved onto the first page of google for the keyword, but I haven't yet plunged in to see about competing to make them rank higher.

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2. 69

   Peter Hogganposted 14 years ago

   Although problems associated with dynamic websites such as unspiderable URL's and duplicate content issues still exist in badly constructed sites, they are pretty much a thing of the past. The pages here at HP are dynamic for example but the execution of the server side stuff has been done well and puts up no barriers to search engines.
   
   I guess you will have to analyze the pages that rank on top of the SERP's for the terms you are after and judge yourself whether you can take them on or not.

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      WryLiltposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I'm referring to pages that aren't even real pages - the ones that just lead you to a search on a site like amazon. As per the examples I showed.

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3. 69

   Peter Hogganposted 14 years ago

   That is a real page as far as search engines are concerned.

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      WryLiltposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Very silly in my opinion then! It can basically change at any time, when new products/sites are added. boo google

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         wildernessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         But you know, Wry, that if that's what people want to see (and it very often is, instead of our fine hubs) then that's what google is in the business of providing. 
         
         Someone looking to buy a widget doesn't need to read us to find out what they want - they just want to know where to buy it!  Although we'd be glad to tell them.....

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            WryLiltposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            LoL true true. But I was hoping that pages that have continually changing content and aren't really static might have less ranking value...

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4. 67

   jaymelee23posted 14 years ago

   You can outrank them fairly easily. That Nextag one ranks really high because it has 1,050 internal links. It only has 1 backlink. Lots of pages + lots of internal linking that is seo'd for a keyword phrase = decent ranking. You would have to backlink your article for that keyword phrase on multiple sites. Read this to get an idea: http://www.seomoz.org/blog/10-illustrat … d:+seomoz+(SEOmoz+Daily+Blog)&utm_content=Google+Reader That will help you out a lot.

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   1. 69

      Peter Hogganposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Fairly easy to outrank sites like nexttag, bizrate, amazon and target? I certainly wouldn’t advise this. These sites have massive power and authority and 1050 internal links is a serious amount of link juice even if they are internal links. IMO its going to take an incredible amount of resources and time to compete with these sites.

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      1. 67

         jaymelee23posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-ppc … mazon.html Read that... Tom Brite and Terry Kyle have the backlinks forum.  They are ranking for many spots for the term: "backlinks." They are pretty respectable people and know how to get results.  I outrank Amazon, Nextag and Target on other sites all the time for products. Internal links are important but not as important as backlinks from trusted sites. Read that link that I put in at the above post from yours. (That SEOmoz one). #2 - External Links are More Influential than Internal Links #4 - Links from Sites Closer to a Trusted Seed Set Pass More Value. Also see: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-ppc … trank.html

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5. 67

   jaymelee23posted 14 years ago

   Another thing that you might wanna watch is this youtube video by Matt Cutts of Google on e-commerce websites and content. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI_NmnXn5A4
   
   Google wants content, even when selling products.

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6. 71

   lrohnerposted 14 years ago

   In the warriorforum.com link above, please note that these guys are talking about full-fledged sites ranking above Amazon--not one-page hubs.

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   1. 67

      jaymelee23posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Iroher, what do you think Hubpages is? It's a site. Most of the sites that those people have are micro niche sites or medium ones. Hubpages ranks well because it has trust - even without backlinks for semi competitive terms. You stand a better chance with Hubpages then you do with a micro niche site right off the bat. It also means less backlinking on Hubpages. Those smaller sites need more. It's been proven and I seen it all the time with Market Samurai. An example, an eHow article targeting "buy a house" has 3 backlinks and it is on the first page. I see other micro niche sites on other pages that have 500 or more links. eHow is on there because it has that trust and internal linking. Millions of domain backlinks give it that trust. Hubpages has that also. eHow has almost 3 millions links pointing to the domain. Hubpages has a little over 900,000.

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         jaymelee23posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         And a note, a goarticle and a SQUIDOO article are ranking on page 1 for "backlinks." A "page" as you called it. They are also outranking PR 5 and larger sites. Why? Because of external backlinking to a trusted domain url. Terry used the Goarticle to help him rank the backlinks forum high in the SERPS. I read the whole experiment. The guy is good. He also advices to use web 2.0 properties to dominate the top spots for your keyword phrase. So there you go.
         
         Backlinks Forum: 5,850 backlinks
         Squidoo backlink topic lense: 187
         Go Article about Backlinks: 1,350
         Squidoo outranks the Go Article because Squidoo has more domain backlinks and internal pages to help it rank ahead. Also, the URL of the Go articles doesn't have "backlinks" in the URL. Go read his Go Article he clearly spells out how to rank a PAGE not site on page 1 under this part in his article:
         So let me run through my fundamental principles for proven Google Page 1 Results
         
         You can also read his whole experiment by typing in Terry Kyle Experiment in Google. It's over 25 pages and takes a while to read due to commenting back and forth between others. It took place over only 60 days. Read it.

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7. 69

   Peter Hogganposted 14 years ago

   I guess any page that is part of a bigger site could rank for anything if you want to put the work in. HubPages is reasonably powerful but even then it would probably take thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of links to be in a position to challenge nexttag for terms that are as competitive and generic as the one being discussed here.
   
   When you compare the ehow page to HubPages you are comparing an internal page on ehow to Hubpages domain, obviously this is not going to be the case if you publish a hub, the hub itself will become an internal page and although gains some benefit from these links will start life with just a handful of backlinks.
   
   The threads you link to point out that it all comes down to links, this has been the status quo for some time and it doesn’t look like things  are about to change in near the future. Knowing how something is done doesn’t necessarily make achieving a satisfactory outcome any easier, rather, it often proves how difficult the task at hand really is.

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      jaymelee23posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      What are you talking about with eHow? Re-read what I wrote. I wrote that an internal page of eHow's outranks with very little backlinks against other domains targeting a keyword or phrase. I've seen others who don't come to the forum doing the same with a Hub. I compared both domains trust level for eHow and Hubpages. Irohner made a statement that a page from Hubpages couldn't outrank a domain. 
      
      As I pointed out also, internal links aren't worth as much...read that SEOmoz article. They used to be treated the same but not anymore. When I've climbed over Nextag, Overstock, etc before on other sites... it took about 3 or 4 months. I do it slowly though. It can be done faster but I found that if you continuously throw backlinks at at URL that it will slide down after that burst if you stop. Just as that SEOmoz article states. You have to weigh out if that keyword is worth your time and will generate worthwhile $. 
      
      It wouldn't take thousands of external links. A general guess would be about 75. The 75 have to be from all different domains and a handful of high PR blog pages. I might even put an article on another article site and link back to the hub and backlink to the second article. To be successful, you have to do that work. I know that it stinks and is boring but that's the reality. If you don't do some backlink campaigning now then in the future when the competition gets even tougher... you won't do well.
      
      Look at Misha... he does great with a handful of hubs because he put the time in and did some backlinking campaigns. He also uses his hubs to put his own site pages in the top 10. People continuously ask him how he does it and he tells them but people don't seem to want to hear it when they know work is involved. It's probably why he discloses his earnings because he knows people here don't wanna do the work; therefore, he doesn't need to worry about copycats.
      
      The best thing that anyone reading this can do is devote a block of time either every day or a few times a week to your backlinking to your hubs or articles on other sites. Make sure that your article has the keyword is in the Title, URL, header and description.  If your keyword is red toaster, it should be red toaster in all 4, not red slim toaster, red toaster, etc. It has to be the exact. I see many hubbers who do not do that and wonder why they don't rank well.
      
      Example:
      
      Title: Red Toaster - Deals
      URL: hub/red-toaster
      Description: (Start off your hub by putting the keyword right in) A red toaster......
      Header: (Capsule titles) Red Toaster Brands, Red Toaster Designs, etc.
      
      Read those articles that I posted earlier in this thread and download Market Samurai trial version. Watch the Market Samurai videos if you are still learning. You have to analyze your keyword and see if it is worth your time or not and will make you money.  If you are having trouble finding places to get backlinks then check out the warriors forum. Sometimes they pass around a list of places to get them or explain how to find them. Type in backlinks into google and read the GoArticle that is listed and go to the backlinksforum. Make sure that your backlinks have keyword you are going for for the anchor text. If you don't know what an anchor text backlink is then look it up. There is sites that will show you how to make one.
      
      Backlink to your own profile too... that will help you when your profile obtains pagerank aka trust. When you can, backlink in your body of text of your hubs for your keyword to your other hubs you are promoting. This type of internal linking is much better than the navigational ones here. This is why Hubpages has that Karma thing. Also....if you have a blog or can take the time every so often... drop a backlink to the domain of Hubpages.  This will increase the trust and help the site overall in the long run.
      
      Domain Backlinks and PR:
      
      eHow: 2,980,146 - PR 8
      Hubpages: 940,106 - PR 6
      Mahalo.com: 366,171 - PR 6
      Squidoo: 9,126,912 - PR 8
      InfoBarrel: 22,602 - PR 4
      Xomba: 52,405 - PR 4
      
      One last thing.... make sure that when you use the Google Keywords Tool that you set it to exact. I see a lot of people trying for broad terms and you need it to be set to exact. Use the drop down option.

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8. 69

   Peter Hogganposted 14 years ago

   Looks like you got your answer WryLilt 75 external links from a diverse set of IP's, a handful of high PR blog pages, a few articles and you can outrank nexttag!
   
   Who is this misha you speak of?

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      jaymelee23posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yep, Peter diversity is a big factor. Even if you get links from trusted domains with very little PR..it is great. I'm not trying to be mean, but helpful. Misha is a hubber here. He is on my profile under followers. He has like 21 hubs and makes good money. He is also very helpful to hubbers.
      
      
      
      
      
      Another worthy read about optimizing your pages: http://www.seomoz.org/blog/perfecting-k … timization

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   girly_girl09posted 14 years ago

   I find that it is generally easy to get past nextag type results and am usually delighted when they are a front page "competitor". I find that Amazon is a bit trickier to rank above, but that can be done too.

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