Careful, you might get grouped in with the rest of us "negative Nancy" hubbers. It's awfully rude of us content providers that helped build the ranks of this site to ask the employees who work for this fun train for anything positive. We should just 'stay tuned' or enter a hub into a contest so that we can 'learn' how to write better social media content.
I think that particular event already happened a while back
Yes, we should all be good little children, i.e. do what we're told, trust the grownups and not ask awkward (aka intelligent) questions.
I find the behaviour of the staff really weird, personally. It's almost like they're not that bothered.
I think that it is more like scared kids - if you ignore the horror it might just go away and we hubbers might just not notice.
But seriously, just a 'we're still working on it' would help.
And me, but I'm not holding my breath.
I'm getting more annoyed by the minute. I'm really not fond of feeling ignored.
This is getting really confusing, I hope we hear something soon.
We are very concerned about all Hubbers' ability to earn from Amazon. We have been working on a larger agreement with them for some time - before they cancelled California affiliate relationships - to make it easier for as many people as possible to get the ability to earn from them.
We are continuing to work on the agreement, but it will need to be amended and go through Amazon's legal review process. The next major hurdle will be on our end since it's likely to require a fair amount of engineering work to implement the solution we have discussed.
For those people impacted by California and other states new law, we find it regretful that California and other states have chosen this path, using all of us as pawns in a larger political battle. At the heart of the issue is states are unable to force companies to collect state sales tax if they don't have a presence in the state. So, some states have created a law that deems having affiliates in the state as a presence. In this case, if Amazon has affiliates in these states they are required to collect sales tax on all purchases in these states. While we would have greatly preferred an alternative to be put in place before the bills were signed into law, we can appreciate the economic disadvantage the states have put Amazon in with this tactic.
Amazon has been clear in the past about these laws and have asked the states to challenge the 1992 Supreme Court case so that all out of state retailers have the same state tax collection requirements.
Our hope is that alternative methods of working with Amazon can be put in place and over time get all people in the impacted states earning again from Amazon. Again, we are actively working on the agreements. We will keep you posted once we get them completed. From there we can work on the technical implementation.
While it's going to take time to get this fully resolved, I am optimistic that a solution will happen.
Nice speech but it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know and certainly didn't address the issues brought up in this thread such as what is HP going to do with it's share while waiting on a solution with Amazon. Clearly it is lost income for those unaffected by the nexus, including HP. Certainly, this small bit of info is not part of any NDA's you have with Amazon.
This is specifically covered as confidential. I can't comment on the extent of the solution and how far it will go back.
Hubbers that feel they are losing income, I think the best option is to hide the Amazon capsules, but there is always a chance Amazon will apply earnings retroactively if you leave them up. No promises.
The agreement we are working on brings Hubbers the opportunity to be under our terms with Amazon (We all have separate agreements now).
We are working hard to get the best opportunity for all Hubbers.
That is very nice, but what about those of us who are not in nexus states. We are still earning from Amazon, why not let us have the 100% of views until this gets resolved?
I think that's the part that is specifically covered as confidential in their Non-disclosure agreement with Amazon.
livewithrichard asked a similar question. I replied previously that I can't comment about our terms with Amazon or if there is lost revenues. That's an assumption folks are making.
Each person needs to decide what is in their best interest with their share of impressions.
From my experience with Amazon, they care deeply about their partners and look for good solutions. They can be big-company-slow at times, and they don't always put the individual first, but when there is a significant economic opportunity, like there is with HubPages, a deal gets done.
Since we haven't been a part of Hubbers contracts, we can't say how they differ from ours, but I'd like to bring our terms to Hubbers as an option.
Thanks for answering. Personally, the months between February and going forward this year have devastated the earnings that I am getting from Hubpages on all my accounts, and I am just trying to recoup any income I can.
This is part of how I make a living to pay my bills, and the bills keep coming, no matter what the internet gods are doing that day.
One reason could be that these waived commissions can be leveraged, as a gesture of good will, or simply part of the agreement, for negotiating those terms the team has mentioned.
Thanks for the update, though I'm not sure what it will all mean in the end and how it will work. Keep on waiting I suppose.
Thanks for the update Paul. I am confident HubPages will try to find the best outcome for as many people as possible.
I think what was being indicated is that hubbers who are still able to earn from Amazon might as well receive 100% of Amazon impressions on their hubs (rather than 60%) until, and this is a shot in the dark, Hubpages build a presence in another cstate/country and make that their headquarters/state of residence, or the law is reversed in California.
Unfortunately I cannot see any other solution, I do not see Amazon agreeing to pay sales tax in California just for Hubpages, and a cpc version similar to eBay is also in a gray area since the law in California clearly covers indirect commission on sales.
Persoanlly I would fully support a decision from Hubpages to move out of California, or at least base their main location in anotehr state for tax purposes. It would send a strong message to the California government that this is hurting businesses as well as individals.
Have you talked to your state representatives yet Paul? I think you are in a greater position than many to say how much this is costing you, as well as covering many of the other reasons as to why this tax is unfair and unjust.
Thanks for the update, Paul. While not residing in California...I am taking the simple precaution of not adding Amazon capsules to my latest hubs so that if in the future we have to start removing them, it will be one less job to do.
If any one person or company receives any earnings from Amazon based on commission of sales, direct or indirect, then Amazon would have to pay slaes tax on all sales in teh entire state. I am not sure how they would circumnavigate that.
I have 100% faith in you Paul, I still have my Amazon Ads running, residence in Illinois, so no one is earning on it at this point.. But hopefully a big check will come Hubpages way after it is resolved. It is still tracking, and I hope to get my money after I switch out of Illinois very soon.
Anyways I have been showing my positive attitude on the forums, and after reading this it only magnifies it. Hopefully it will start rubbing off on people.
Keeping a positive attitude is an admirable trait, Mikey. I wish I could admit to having 100% faith in anyone working for HP, but after the Panda episodes I discovered just how much trash was on the site and how it is still being allowed to be posted daily.
I'm sure I wasn't the only writer who thought HP wouldn't want this junk to be representative of the type of articles to be found here. Quite a few of these hubs had millions of views and had comments from those mislead into thinking the hub represented a major business of some sort.
It's hard to imagine HP didn't notice these hubs as they had to earn the site quite a nice return. Some of these hubs had to be flagged many times and were not taken down until some of us posted them on the forums. Others were changed a bit to escape being unpublished but they were still junk.
As far as I know, no one from staff addressed these issues to the satisfaction of the writers here. I suspect the Panda slap was because HP allowed these type articles to remain on the site.
I'm really not trying to be pessimistic about HubPages, but I do tend to allow realism and past experiences to be part of my decision making process.
I do hope Paul is right about his hopes, I'm just not depending on it.
Right on!!! You know, I owned an article directory for a couple years, up to last month as a matter of fact, and it just grew too big and too fast for me to handle it alone. Before I took it down it was getting 600+ submissions a day. I couldn't possibly check all of that content on my own and still have a life.
I'm sure the problem is the same here but 100 fold larger. This is the sole reason for creating hub hopping so that we could decontaminate this site and effectively do most of the work that the staff is getting paid to do. Also, hub hopping is creating more work than they can handle so they get to the flagged crap when they can.
To each their own but I get paid to write, I don't get paid to police.
Okay, okay. I was so proud of myself for getting the Amazon Affiliate Program on my account as a new HubPages writer since I'm not that great with computer skills. Since they have pulled out of California, will you please tell me how I can delete them from my account and my blog? Or do they plan on doing the mass exodus from California accounts themselves? If so, when can I expect this?
Thanks. It is what it is. From now on, I'm haunting Barnes and Noble, Borders and any mom and pop bookstore in my hometown of Sacramento and anywhere I travel..
See ya, Amazon.com.
I'm leaving mine up for 2 reasons.
1.) The money shows up still, and there is a chance I could still receive it. But once again... "No promises" in Paul E's words.
2.) It still helps the hub out.
Mikey, I don't mean to put a damper on your enthusiasm but what Paul has said is impossible for those of us that have been terminated by Amazon. If, and a big IF, Amazon ever does reinstate terminated affiliates it will most certainly be under a new agreement and a new affiliate tracking code. Even if you move out of Illinois and reapply to Amazon from an unaffected state you will still be a NEW affiliate.
While I will agree that it helps out the hub if the hub's intention is to garner an Amazon sale, it will never bring you the author any monetary benefit. The only monetary benefit you will receive is if you re-optimize it for Adsense and from the HP ad program.
Thanks for the explanation livewithrichard, because I was wondering if those who were not affected by the nexus law could still make money with amazon on Hubpages but it looks like not until a new agreement is hashed out.
Well I guess I will stick with eBay for now and use amazon on my own blogs.
No, you CAN still make sales from Amazon, if you don't live in the affected states!
I still do, since I'm in Ohio, and so far, it hasn't hit us...yet.
As TamCor posted, if you have not been terminated from Amazon then you CAN still earn here on HP. There are only about a half dozen states that have been booted, if you live in one of those states you would have received a termination notice from Amazon and would no longer earn commissions from referrals.
Don't worry you didn't put a damper on anything. In an email from Amazon they asked me if I was switching my address, and if so it should not be a problem. As they were sure many people were going to want to change their address.
I wasn't aware people's Amazon accounts have been terminated.
My stuff has still been tracking on Amazon and I plan on getting that. Not to an amount that is going to make me or break me, but if I do lose it I do not care that much. I am changing my address because Hubpages is performing well for me and I only see it improving. The big check I was referring to was the fact that he said there are "no promises" but that money could be returned. And I wasn't referring to me, I was referring to Hubpages after the Amazon problem is fixed.
Nothing I said has much of anything to do with Paul, I am just interested in the future and how I will be making money. The money made before this and today is the past for me. I'm only worried long term. And right now, I think more people should be paying attention to this site.
This is the Email I received from Amazon:
For well over a decade, the Amazon Associates Program has worked with thousands of Illinois residents. Unfortunately, a new state tax law signed by Governor Quinn compels us to terminate this program for Illinois-based participants. It specifically imposes the collection of taxes from consumers on sales by online retailers – including but not limited to those referred by Illinois-based affiliates like you – even if those retailers have no physical presence in the state.
We had opposed this new tax law because it is unconstitutional and counterproductive. It was supported by national retailing chains, most of which are based outside Illinois, that seek to harm the affiliate advertising programs of their competitors. Similar legislation in other states has led to job and income losses, and little, if any, new tax revenue. We deeply regret that its enactment forces this action.
As a result of the new law, contracts with all Illinois affiliates of the Amazon Associates Program will be terminated and those Illinois residents will no longer receive advertising fees for sales referred to Amazon.com, Endless.com, or SmallParts.com. Please be assured that all qualifying advertising fees earned prior to April 15, 2011 will be processed and paid in full in accordance with the regular payment schedule. Based on your account closure date of April 15, 2011, any final payments will be paid by July 1, 2011.
You are receiving this email because our records indicate that you are a resident of Illinois. If you are not currently a permanent resident of Illinois, or if you are relocating to another state in the near future, you can manage the details of your Associates account here. And if you relocate to another state after April 15, please contact us for reinstatement into the Amazon Associates Program.
To be clear, this development will only impact our ability to continue the Associates Program in Illinois, and will not affect the ability of Illinois residents to purchase online at www.amazon.com from Amazon’s retail business.
We have enjoyed working with you and other Illinois-based participants in the Amazon Associates Program and, if this situation is rectified, would very much welcome the opportunity to re-open our Associates Program to Illinois residents.
The Amazon Associates Team
My contract was terminated and if I were to move to an unaffected state, I would need to create a NEW account and there is no way or obligation for Amazon to pay me retroactively for the referrals I'm still sending them. Yes, I still have my Amazon modules up because I have been too busy with my own sites and haven't gotten around to removing them or replacing them with Ebay. Still not sure if I'm going to stick around here for $50 a month from the HP ad program when my content was earning me 10 times that amount from adsense.
Paying attention to this site is a must but contributing ALL of your spare time here is foolish if you ever want to earn a real income online. HP should only be ONE of your many streams of online income.
If you walk away with only one thing, remember this, you have to treat earning an online income like you were running a small business because you are. In running a small business, you are in control. If you place all your writing in one place or in many places which you have no control over then you stand to lose everything. HP is not alone in this arena there are dozens of places that will pay or allow you to earn from user generated content and they have all been affected by the recent algorithm changes. Start your own self hosted sites, devote twice as much time as you do to HP, and you will see your earnings really grow and the only one you will have to thank is yourself.
Yes, I received that email as well, I told them that I was planning on moving, can't remember in detail, but odds are I forgot about the accounts being terminated since I wanted Amazon. Finding a way to get an Amazon Associates account for Hubpages wasn't impossible, even if we are from Illinois.
I am treating this as nothing but fun and tons of learning. I am not stuck on Hubpages at all. I would be delusional if I was to think everyone could live the rest of their lives off of JUST Hubpages, although the possibility is there..
What you said is exactly how I approach Hubpages. However I do feel it is extremely powerful and there are certain ways to exploit it(meaning find something that works and makes you great income). In the future you would only expect to find more ways to exploit the site. I've made 200+ hubs(some were taken down), and many took as little as 15-30 minutes. Very few took more than an hour. That's how much time I've invested in Hubpages. The rest as I said has been learning and testing.
I think if Hubpages nothing as more than an income for me. The exact way you explained it is exactly how I deal with it. I agree 100% that your own site is always the best place to earn income, especially when it comes to backlinking. You have to put the work in and know exactly what you are doing. Hubpages ultimately is a middleman and splits my my income with me.
I have plenty of plans and future aspirations, and hubpages will certainly be one of them.
It may seem like all I'm thinking about is Hubpages, but in all actuality I've been well aware of this:
And I certainly agree. Hubpages is a tool to me, and nothing more.
Well just when I thought I was going to start writing again - I get shot in the foot. No adsense, no amazon = no profit! I really like to write - so maybe I'll just go back to plain old writing and forget about the money here & work real hard on my Etsy store.
Soooo, Pia/Paul/Jason...whoever's around...
Any news or info you can share today?
As the days drag by, it gets harder and harder, not hearing anything...
Paul made it pretty clear that the next step was the legal department. I can only imagine that review.
If just one small mistake is made, Amazon will end up paying sales tax on EVERY item purchased in California or any other state that has a nexus law and a hubber in it.
So I think a lot of patience is justified at this junction.
Some hubbers who are not affected by the nexus law say they are still earning from Amazon on Hubpages.
This should sum it up:
Hubbers living in unaffected states are still earning here at HP.
Hubbers terminated by Amazon are not earning.
HP as a California resident was terminated and is not earning.
(The following is speculative based on the little information given to us)
HP trying to work out a deal with Amazon so that those not affected by nexus can still earn by sending referrals from their hubs, most likely with language that states HP will not share in those earnings.
HP is trying to relocate its own affiliate account to an unaffected area so they can continue to share in the profits brought by hubbers referrals.
I'll make this perfectly clear, in order for HP to earn from Amazon it MUST relocate its affiliation to an unaffected state. If it does, then HP the company will continue to earn, the staff living in CA with their own affiliation will NOT earn since they have personally been terminated.
The ball is in Amazon's court and we are pushing for a response. Nothing new to report.
People in unaffected states still earn.
Good Morning Paul and HubTeam!
I read the following this morning in ShelfAwareness; an amazing online resource for all things book related.
"Amazon.com the world’s largest Internet retailer, will begin gathering signatures for a vote to repeal a new California law that requires it to collect sales taxes.
The Seattle-based company “will begin participating in the process of collecting the signatures needed to have this jobs referendum on next year’s ballot,” a spokeswoman, Mary Osako, said in a statement yesterday after state Attorney General Kamala D. Harris approved Amazon's language for the petition . . . "
To read the entire article, it can be found at Bloomberg News under "Amazon Cleared to Gather Signatures . . . "
Does this meet with your understanding of the current status?
Blessings Always, EarthAngel
Well: it looks like Amazon may very soon welcome back its California affiliates, albeit just for a year until the winds change once again. News reports are all over the net about Amazon cutting a deal with the California legislature; here is one source: http://blogs.forbes.com/janetnovack/?p=2578
In a nutshell, Amazon has agreed to start collecting CA sales tax beginning Sept. 15, 2012, unless the federal Congress enacts a nationwide internet sales tax by July 31, 2012. What happens with Amazon Associates when either of those taxes kick in is, as yet, unclear, but it appears that at least for now, as soon as Governor Brown signs this new agreement (likely to happen Monday 9/12), Associates can be back in business.
So if you've deleted your ads, re-assemble them now, because once Brown signs this agreement, CA Associates should be able to run their Amazon ads again.
HubPages Staff, I assume you would concur with this info--I'm sure Hubbers would love to hear a confirmation from the company, rather than from the ramblings of a simple fellow Hubber such as myself.
Soooooo....it's been another week.
Any news to share about Amazon, and what is going on?
I agree, that this is a very important topic for many of us and I'm sure we're wondering if there's been any more contact or conversation between HP and Amazon.
Just checking - anymore updates? Or is this just going to be like eBay and Google talks?
I'm not affected by the Governor "Bad for Business" Brown as I live outside his sphere of influence. But I hope that people on Hub Pages get their Amazon accounts back. No one person should be relying on just one source of income here. Do what you need to do to - so as to have several streams of income. Hub Pages is a great community and is getting things right with the great new improvements, innovations and changes.
Keep pushing the boundaries.
Jerry Brown has committed to signing the sales tax collection bill:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_c … brown.html
This is a big update. And we'll keep you posted if we hear anything from Amazon.
Per this 9/26/11 ZD Net article, "Amazon to reinstate California affiliates as early as this week" (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/violetblue/am … s-week/700) --
"When Governor Jerry Brown signed the repeal, Booth emailed Amazon to ask the question many of us California affiliates had: would Amazon now reinstate their California-based Associate accounts?
"He received this reply from Amazon today:
'As you may have heard, California Governor Jerry Brown has signed legislation repealing the law that forced us to terminate our California Associates.
'We’re working to relaunch the Amazon.com Associates Program in California as soon as possible. In the next few days, we’ll reach out to all affected past Amazon.com Associates with information how to re-open their accounts.
'We look forward to seeing you again soon.'"
It's been six days since this announcement. Have any of you California Amazonian ex-pats received an email from Amazon yet? I haven't, but I think I'll start ramping up Amazon ads for articles I've created since the cut, and check over the ads I previously created for other articles before switching them back "on" in anticipation of this change. That way, my ads will be good to go the moment the CA affiliate program is reinstated. In the meantime, if the ads reap some benefits for HP and the actual sellers of the items, it's no skin off my nose.
Just sharing my strategy FWIW. Your thoughts, fellow Hubbers?
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