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jump to last post 1-4 of 4 discussions (42 posts)

Free-Will vs. Human Instincts

  1. profile image59
    squeeknomoreposted 4 years ago

    Some folks say Free will is a necessary illusion. Many say we are ruled by intstincts.
    Do we have free wills to guide...
    or does nature guide us?

    1. profile image0
      christiananrkistposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      if free will exists, is it an illusion? how would instincts play a role in my decision to watch the walking dead or be a packers fan? i have the free will to make that choice. if everything were just instincts, what would make murder or rape wrong? would a person just be guided by their instincts? it would actually seem more wrong to hold them accountable for a choice they couldn't freely make?

      1. profile image59
        squeeknomoreposted 4 years agoin reply to this

        I say we have free will to guide. Many will argue. Many who are atheists will argue, that is… why do you suppose that is?

        1. profile image0
          christiananrkistposted 4 years agoin reply to this

          i dont know. i dont understand why some atheist fight so hard against certain issues.i dont see the free will argument as much of an argument for either side really. there have been other that escape my mind now. sometimes it seems as if a christian or other religion believes it, then the atheist will automatically reject it.

          1. profile image59
            squeeknomoreposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            I am hearing you. I am hearing you. Any thing else?

            1. profile image59
              squeeknomoreposted 4 years agoin reply to this

              Rad Man profile image82Rad Manposted 6 days ago:

              "Free will is an evolutionary necessary illusion.

              Humans are not the only species that consciously makes decisions so therefore it's a product of evolution that makes us think we have free will.

              It's necessary for our survival that we think our choices are real.

              Choices are a product of brain chemistry and are predictable and therefore an illusion."

          2. profile image0
            Rad Manposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            It's rather simple really. Christians frequently talk about how God gave us free will without understanding the concept themselves. One can come to an understanding of the concept if one studies the concept without being hindered by ones religious teaching. Religious teachings force you assume we have free will. Physics tells us that time may be an illusion for us as well as there is no reason why we should be able to forwards and backward and the future, past and present are all happening at the same time. This means the future is already determined and playing out. Making free will a necessary illusion.

            1. profile image0
              christiananrkistposted 4 years agoin reply to this

              who or what is the future determined by? What does time have to do with it? are you saying our actions are predetermined my time? How could time itself guide us , especially if its an illusion. Can you provide sources for time is an illusion?  Everything I've read says time is real.  please dont take all my questions as me just trying to be a douche or to just try and prove you wrong. i sometimes ask to a fault, but these are genuine questions i would like answers to. if you know or can point me to resources, it will be appreciated.There are christians who make the "you just gotta have faith" statement. needless to say these kind of Christians make me cringe every time they say it. however there are also christians who do know physics and other area's of science that are not hindered by their religion. just because i believe in a designer doesn't mean i dont know or cant learn this stuff. my belief in God doesn't come from what i don't know, but what i do know about the world. i could also make a similar argument against atheists for backing away any time the evidence leads to anything non material. they are hindered by their lack of belief. i for one dont believe that about most atheists. but it is a similar, hateful , and useless argument.

              1. profile image0
                Rad Manposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                Sure you can start here. You may also want to read up on Einstein and his theories.

                http://youtu.be/NJM4g9emAeI

                1. profile image0
                  christiananrkistposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  thank you. any recommended books or resources on Einsteins theories?

                  1. profile image0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                    Wikipedia is a good start. Did the video help?

              2. EncephaloiDead profile image58
                EncephaloiDeadposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                Like yourself, I'm curious to find out about things, such as, what in this world that we know could possibly lead one to believe in a designer? As well, what are the "non-material" you refer?

                1. profile image0
                  christiananrkistposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/th … -argument/

                  http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/th … -the-past/

                  these can explain it a lot better than im really willing to write. pretty much everything we know about physics and the laws of nature and the way the world works is what leads me to a designer. in my opinion the world just has obvious design. even minor changes could cause life to end. its hard to imagine finding anything else that has such detail and structure and it somehow just got there by a process of random chance or evolving particles. for instance, if you find a dollar in your wallet. after observing the dollar and examining it in all its detail, whats the best explanation for it getting there? i think the way the world works is much more complicated and detailed than the dollar.

                  1. EncephaloiDead profile image58
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                    And yet, the laws of physics, nature and everything we know show there is no designer. How you managed to glean that is puzzling indeed considering the facts and evidence.



                    That is no reason at all for a designer, that is a fallacy. There is nothing obvious that world has been designed, quite the contrary in fact.



                    That's just an argument from ignorance.



                    That is another fallacy. A dollar bill has nothing to do with anything about nature.

                    From the link you provided:



                    That is just nonsense. It jumps to the conclusion of a God simply due to a cause. Ridiculous doesn't even describe it.

                  2. profile image0
                    Rad Manposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                    So the universe is about 14 billion years old and the earth came about 10 billion years after the universe started and humans finally arrived some 200,000 years ago and you think all of this is for us? One would think a God would have just made in appear in 6 days as described in the bible. But then this perfect, omni everything God would have to rest.

      2. profile image0
        Rad Manposted 4 years agoin reply to this

        That's why the illusion is necessary.

        1. profile image0
          christiananrkistposted 4 years agoin reply to this

          if its an illusion, right and wrong still don't exists either. what makes it necessary?

      3. EncephaloiDead profile image58
        EncephaloiDeadposted 4 years agoin reply to this

        Instincts are patterns of behavior in response to certain stimuli, which can easily explain watching the walking dead or being a packers fan.



        Same thing, if we can see the results of murder and rape on the victims and their families, we can easily conclude they are wrong, especially if we are the victim.

        1. profile image0
          christiananrkistposted 4 years agoin reply to this

          are you saying that im a packers fan, because of events that have occurred in my life? kind of like a very complicated domino set up, where each event knocks down the other until that's the decision that i make. is that basically what you're saying, or am i not understanding?

          im confused on the murder and rape thing too. i understand seeing the effects on others lives and especially ours does make the average person not want to do it. instinctually though, what makes us care about that?

          1. EncephaloiDead profile image58
            EncephaloiDeadposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            If the events are football oriented, yes.



            I'm not sure what you're saying, what does this have to do with dominoes?



            Our evolved human nature of compassion and altruism coupled with the fact we don't want things like that happening to us so we don't do them to others.

  2. profile image59
    squeeknomoreposted 4 years ago

    "We have free will to guide ourselves after the age of 15. (Depending on the parents.)
    *It takes about 15 years to develop enough ability and knowledge to guide our own wills.
    *The first six years of life is nature at work. Nature, (in conjunction with the soul's interactions with the environment) forms the psyche. It is during these early years from 0 to 15 yrs. that one learns to guide one's own will.
    *Will-power, won't-power and free-will are three different things." (by KLH)

    MM

    1. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Where did you get 15? Is it a age you just made up?

      Humans don't become self aware until the age of about 2 and our brains aren't fully developed until the age of about 25. Where did 15 come from because a 5 year old makes decisions all day long. What young people don't have is mind control. They will typically do what ever they want all day and if they want to eat cookies they will, it's will power that they don't have yet.

    2. profile image59
      squeeknomoreposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      This information is based on the findings of a Doctor who worked with children and devoted her entire life to bettering the conditions of children. Her name was Maria Montessori.

      1. profile image0
        Rad Manposted 4 years agoin reply to this

        Then I think you are misunderstanding what she said. Free will or making decision have nothing to do with maturity. Most 15 year olds would not do well without their parents.

  3. profile image59
    squeeknomoreposted 4 years ago

    - what is free will to you? What makes it an "illusion?"

    1. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      We are under the illusion that the future doesn't already exist. Physics tells us that the future present and past is still happening.

  4. Haunty profile image82
    Hauntyposted 4 years ago

    A person who exercises free will sees all the causes around her that affect every aspect of her life and life choices. Nothing happens without a cause. She dominates her moods, characters, qualities, and powers, as well as the environment surrounding her. Do you think you are this person?

    Furthermore, it seems to me that in the most important areas of life we don't possess any amount of free will at all. Like when you fall in love with someone, do you really have a say in whom you fall in love with?

 
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