Despite the inane adage, that C students run the world, in most cases

1. 83

   gmwilliamsposted 10 years ago

   
   that is totally false.  It is the A students who are the MOST SUCCESSFUL in life.  They have more opportunities to further their education and to succeed than either B or C students.  A students are more likely to attend graduate, law, and/or medical school than either B or C students.
   
   A students have a work ethic which was demonstrated throughout their academic career which translates into high levels of success in their future careers.  If a student wants to obtain a high level of career success, even entrepeneurship, he/she had better be an A student.  B students have less than a chance of success than A students and C students, FORGET about, DON'T even THINK about achieving a high level of success unless you very well connected.   Do YOU agree with this premise?  Why?  Why not?

   replyreport
   1. 61

      Silverspeederposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I think the adage is more a comment on the ability of politicians than the general ability of students.
      
      Here in the college i work at there is a saying which goes something like, A grade students become inspirational, independent, entrepreneurs  who drive the economy, B grade students become business partners in industry and C grade students become politicians!

      replyreport
      1. 89

         wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I thought the politicians generally flunked out and then, by giving political favors, got honorary degrees bestowed on them?

         replyreport
   2. 61

      AuniceReedposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Yes. A grades give you A LOT of leverage and puts you ahead of the game majorly. However, you need to also have the ability to relate to people.  There certainly are people who obtained C grades in college that have gone on to become quite successful, but that is not the norm. One such person that comes to mind is George W. Bush, but then again his family has connections and not to mention lots of money.  So for those of us who have few connections and no money, A grades provide a way out of that conundrum.

      replyreport
      1. 83

         gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000! Definitely, C students who are highly successful oftentimes come from wealthy, well-connected backgrounds; C students from average/humble backgrounds have a VERY SLIM chance of success.  Grades DO COUNT and COUNT A LOT.  If one wants to be highly successful in life, an A average will make him/her highly successful.    If one look at the backgrounds of many highly successful people, chances are that they were A students in many cases e.g. Oprah, Mira Sorvino, Vanessa L. Williams, and Eddie Griffin.    I know this fact from a child.  I was inculcated with the premise that if one wants to be highly successful, obtain an A average.    Employers look more favorably on those with A averages than they would on those with C average who are viewed quite unfavorably.   Dr. Phil put it more succinctly:  an A average equals an A life and a C average equals a C life.  Couldn't put it better myself.

         replyreport
      2. 82

         Melissa A Smithposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         "There certainly are people who obtained C grades in college that have gone on to become quite successful, but that is not the norm."
         
         Says who? What statistics are available? Even though statistics can sometimes be skewed, but we need something to work with, or it's just a parade of assumptions and I don't see the point. GM's threads tend to be 90% generalizations, listing about 2-5 examples as evidence. I hope I don't need to explain why this is useless. I experience the same logic about exotic pets, when people see 2-3 examples of bad situations involving exotics they want everyone banned.

         replyreport
         1. 83

            gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            The average C student does not become highly successful.  He/she cannot pursue postgraduate education.  Sometimes he/she cannot pursue undergraduate education because many college/universities will not accept C students.   Employers do not look favorably on students who have obtained C averages in college or high school; they believe that such a student does not have the discipline and/or wherewithal to be diligent/industrious as far as work ethic goes.   C students, in many cases, are not slated for success.  To reiterate,C students who obtained success have CONNECTIONS, they do not come from average/humble backgrounds.

            replyreport
            1. 82

               Melissa A Smithposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               If the doctor/lawyer paradigm is your only qualifier of high success, then we can agree. Without high grades it is hard or impossible to get into medical school. I don't think the same is true for undergraduate.
               
               If only doctor/lawyer/CEO positions are considered high success than it sounds like only a fragment of A students are highly successful because only a fragment of our population consists of people with these professions but there surely must be far more A average-holding individuals, so having the A is far from indicative that a person is posed for 'success'.

               replyreport
         2. 61

            AuniceReedposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            The reason I feel its not the norm is because I don't know many people who have earned a C average that became successful. I know a few but not many.  Most people with profitable careers I know are educated. They either have a bachelors and up, but most have graduate degrees or are doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc.
            
            What I do know with certainty is that there have been lots of research done on attainment of education and income correlations. Turns out that the more education you get, the more money you make. This means that those who have earned a masters degree and upwards make more money. In order to get into grad school or professional school you have to be competitive by getting A's in undergrad or you just don't get in.  C students don't make the cut. But that's just looking at income and education which by the way determines a lot.(living environment, health, lifestyle, parenting, etc.).
            
            See The Bureau of Labor Statistics: http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm
            
            See: Centers for Disease Control:
            http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2012/ … ation.html
            
            See: Pew Research:
            http://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays

            replyreport
            1. 83

               gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.  I also know VERY FEW C students who are successful.  It is a rarity for C students to become successful; there is a correlation between grade level and success level. 
               
               The higher the grade, the more successful one is.  Although one hears that A students work for C students, it is usually the other way around.  A students have the most education and it is the C student who works for the A student.
               
               I was reading a book on college qualifications and it stated that college courses are far too rigorous for C students who do not possess a high level of intelligent.  The book indicated that C students are better off in vocational training, not taking academic courses.  My guidance counselor said it better that if a student has a C average, forget about college as college is beyond the purview of the C student.

               replyreport
            2. 82

               Melissa A Smithposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               It is never correct to use the 'people I know' statistic, because that only takes into account individuals in your region, and those who know a certain person are likely to be a 'certain type of people', thus rigging the sample.
               
               Your links do provide something for me to work with, I'm not saying your assumption is wrong. But here are a few things to take into account: The first link might skew the picture of the variable successes of the lower educated group because the average is mixed in with the groups of lower socioeconomic status. With the group that has postgrad education, the sample decreases and becomes less variable, only including the goal-motivated people of the top paying jobs. What I'm trying to say is, for the lower degrees, you'll have the small business owners mixed in with sales associates. At the top you'll have mostly people with the exclusive jobs that they spent a good portion of their life (and financially) aiming for. If that makes sense.   
               
               The second link about better health correlating with more education, doesn't really tell us much about the topic of this thread, the 'C' average, but it does tell us that as one would expect, and I can agree with, those 'highly successful' small percentage of extra well-off individuals (above middle class) can afford top health care and nutrition/educational awareness, and you do need above a C in general to get into schools for most of these jobs (particularly doctor/lawyer). I'm certainly no expert on what other jobs are out there that 'well off' people do and if that can be achieved with a C average. But again, that report mainly discusses schooling vs. no schooling, so we can only make deductions from the schooling we know requires over a C.   
               Again, if high success is determined by jobs requiring years of schooling, then the C thing rings true.

               replyreport
            3. 82

               Melissa A Smithposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               One more thing, these top jobs are also very expensive to achieve, so that cuts many candidates out as well. So this tells us that not only should the best health be correlated with achieving an A, but it is also correlated with students that had some money in the first place, the exceptions being scholarships.

               replyreport
2. 78

   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   Have you done a survey? Because I see a mix. Plenty of great people never graduated high school.

   replyreport
   1. 83

      gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, many highly successful people haven't graduated high school; however, many of them were stellar students while they attended high school.   Highly successful people, for the most part, were above average students or better while they were in school.   Average to poor students who never graduated high school end up unsuccessful, impoverished, or in some sort of dire straits. The latter type of students AREN'T successful by any stretch of the imagination!

      replyreport
      1. 78

         psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         So you have gone from "A" student to "above average" already?
         
         IMHO, unless we have some source material to look at--who knows.  It depends on what area of achievement you look at and how bad grade inflation is in your schools.

         replyreport
         1. 83

            gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Working definition of above average would be honor student.   Let me correct this, let us say excellent student which A students are classified as.  Many dropouts, both high school and college, who went on to phenomenal success were A students.
            
            On average,C students do not become phenomenal or even highly successful unless they are VERY WELL CONNECTED or come from a WEALTHY background e.g. George W. Bush and John F. Kennedy.  C students from humble/average backgrounds(esp. if they drop out of school) AREN'T going to be successful; too much is against them.   The only way a person from a humble/average background is going to be phenomenally successful is if he/she possess exceptional intelligence/acumen particularly in the academic arena.

            replyreport
3. 89

   wildernessposted 10 years ago

   It may be true - IF you define success as making lots of money.  I don't and never did.  Most of the things I deem to contribute to success don't cost a dime.

   replyreport
4. 78

   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   p.s. is that picture of Vanessa Williams who *dropped out of school* to become a beauty queen and then successful actress.

   replyreport
   1. 83

      gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      How correct you are. It is Vanessa Williams in the movie Soul Food portraying Teri  Joseph, a corporate attorney.  Ms. Williams dropped out of Syracuse University to pursue an entertainment career; however, while she attended Syracuse University, she had a 3.8 GPA  which is considered an A.   She was no slacker.  Eventually she earned an honorary degree from Syracuse for lifetime achievement in her career.

      replyreport
      1. 82

         Melissa A Smithposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/0 … 00365.html
         
         Do you actually agree with Universities dolling out degrees to celebrity drop outs just so they (the school) can receive recognition from the masses? I think that just highlights our sad obsession with fame and celeb-worship.  In my college experience, the hardest classes are at the end. I assume that must be the same for 'Visual and Performing Arts'.
         If they want to give recognition for career success, that's one thing. But she hasn't proven herself with academia. I enjoyed a higher GPA before the mandatory organic chem classes popped up for my major, and I'm nowhere near an A student but hey, 'fine arts' sounds pretty tough.

         replyreport
5. 77

   keyenhancerposted 10 years ago

   I know everyone likes to knock George Bush and call him names, but his actual life history paints a completely different picture. I'm no Bush fanboy, but he was very educated. Maybe you should read papers he personally wrote, even if you don't agree with what he has to say in them, I think you'll find he was more intelligent than the media gave him credit for.

   replyreport
6. 77

   keyenhancerposted 10 years ago

   I personally failed most of my homework assignments in High School. I disagreed with homework more than anything. Always maintained a good work ethic though. I graduated because my test scores were always so high than it balanced my grade to a passable level. I even scored in the top 10% of the Michigan's Assessment test taken by millions of students. I'm not so sure grades are complete indicators of work ethics. At least, they were not for me. I've always earned wage increases and promotions quickly, and was often depended on do to being dependable. But maybe I'm just the oddball from a group of high school slackers.

   replyreport