Schools have mandatory math, history, and other classes. Why not mandatory ethics classes? Doesn't have to be anything esoteric, just the basics. For that matter, maybe even have advanced classes, if the schools think the students would be capable of benefiting from it?
This post was spawned by all the bad things I see happening in our schools, week after week after week.
[An edit] These classes should be initiated at a very young age. Seriously, I mean kindergarten, first grade, etc.
GDPR Deleted
Anti-religious collectivism is the death of true precepts of liberty. And anyone who has tried to plan an economy around these factors has failed, EVERY TIME.
What we need to bring back is civics classes. To educate people on their constitutional rights.
GDPR Deleted
China is hugely repressive towards religious freedom. That means people aren't free to worship how they choose, People in Hong Kong are currently rioting in the streets to retain those liberties against a giant collectivist oppressor. (Probably the worst example you could have cited).
But I'm more concerned with the collectivism than whether or not they are religious. Taxation is theft and by it's very nature is a strain on individual liberty. That's not indoctrination that's a fact.
Indoctrination is to believe that taking money away from people at gunpoint for the so called greater good, and letting a wasteful and corrupt government spend it how they see fit is somehow a form of liberty.
GDPR Deleted
"Never put self interest ahead of the tribe" That's collectivism.
I find it ironic that you claim I am going off topic when not only did you bring collectivist ideology into the conversation with your first post, but you denied it in one sentence, and then went on to defend it in the very next paragraph.
I don't mind having a discussion over the pros and cons of collectivism since you were the first to bring it up. It is odd however, that you accuse me of indoctrination when the concept is so ingrained in your thoughts that you don't even realize when you are writing about it.
GDPR Deleted
Your idea of localized tribalism is merely a steppingstone towards state ran collectivism. And you applaud China for it's repression towards the religious. No, you don't believe in liberty.
GDPR Deleted
Within framework of the law. Is that not always the case, whether a country is "free" or not? You may do as you wish, as long as that country says it is all right to do so?
GDPR Deleted
Well, the first, and possibly largest, obstacle to "freedom" is a government that takes most of what you build in order to give it to others, without providing you any benefit at all. There will always be dissension about what a country needs, but when there is no benefit for the person paying the bill it is not "freedom". Not by any definition I would accept.
Then there are a host of "morality" laws, dictating how you shall behave, for no more reason than because others think you should.
Finally, any time two or more people live in close proximity to each other, some "freedom" must be give up. It becomes, then, a matter of how much is given up in order to live together. Some countries require more, some less. Some require large sacrifices, some require many small ones.
In any case, the point is that when you declare that 95% of countries have citizens living freely...if they choose to abide by the laws of the country...you aren't saying much. Every country gives it's people that choice: "Do what I say or else!"
GDPR Deleted
"1. Taxes pay for the infrastructure of a country. Without that infrastructure, ther eis no country."
I tried to indicate (and think I did) that there is no problem with such taxes. It is when taxes are required and then simply handed out to someone else, with no benefit to the one paying, that freedom is lost.
"So why don't you go and live in the bush. That way you have all the freedom you like."
I'm struggling with just why you seem to think I demand no losses at all. Again, I made it very clear that it is necessary that some loss is required - it is a question of how much. If you're required to pray to Allah daily, that's too much. If you cannot fire a gun in city limits, that's reasonable and quite acceptable. Yes, I fully realize that you can't go around raping and murdering; I assume you do as well.
"I receive a pension, free medical, and I'm just as free as I ever was in the USA."
And there is the crux: someone is paying for your pension, free medical, etc., and their freedom to spend their earnings as they wish is lost, while getting no benefit from it. I have difficulty comprehending why you can't seem to recognize that fact; it is a simple concept. You may find it "ridiculous" that that freedom was lost, but that's not an excuse to state that it was not. Nor is it an excuse to demand that others pay your way - to give up the freedom they enjoy so that you can live off of their wallet.
You're right - I want what I earn. Whether "clever" (why the obnoxious comment?) or not, I deserve to keep it, not have someone else take it away because they want more than they earn.
Those are certainly a lot of presumptions you are making about me, all wrong of course. It would seem that you are unconsciously connecting things that aren't actually connected.
It is strange that at first you were all about putting the tribe ahead of the individual, yet your new definition of tribalism is repugnant.
GDPR Deleted
Coming at me from an authoritative stance is unwise. You feel that simply because of your level of formal education that somehow others can not speak to socioeconomic issues on the same level. I have more education than you think, I've been around the world, and I speak more than one language. It means nothing because I can read. And incidentally we're both speaking English right now.
And you are now reverting back to the concept of "tribe/ community" to the dictionary definition to justify hocking accusations of white nationalism at me.
I will say that there is one thing about America (a well traveled person such as yourself seems to be unable to grasp) that's different than the rest of the world, is that we can love our country without being racist because it was founded on the concept of "E Pluribus Unum". Out of many, one. It is not race based, it allows for anybody from any background to become a citizen and a true American from the moment they raise their hand and take that oath.
You can never become German, Mexican, or Japanese by taking an oath, which is what separates The United States from the rest.
GDPR Deleted
It's typical that Liberals revert to one's formal credentials when they loose an argument. It is elitism, and no matter how qualified anybody is, nobody is more qualified to run my life than me.
America is one of the least racist countries in the world and that should be made evident by the millions of people from all over the world that are trying to get into this country every year. All citizens of this country have the same rights regardless of race, creed, or religion. Every fortune five hundred company in America abides by strict nondiscrimination policies that allow for the most economic opportunities. People are afforded the ability to lift themselves out of poverty at every turn. There are countless scholarship programs offered to minorities for higher education, and everyone is afforded equal protection under the law.
Are you now saying that you didn't call me a white nationalist? Once again you don't seem to be capable of keeping track of your own words.
I am really struggling here Tess. As a non-participant I am aware that I am just butting in, and I did try, (through multiple exposures), to refrain from responding), but . . .
Your questions in this comment are pretty damning. I am sorely tempted to look back in the forum archives because, like Jake Earthshine and Alternate Prime, I am certain I have encountered you before under another persona.
Your questions amount to a credibility litmus test, and I think that arrogance reflects poorly on you.
You shouldn't have to toot your own horn. Your actions and words should be such that others would do the tooting for you. However, in the threads I have followed, that hasn't been the case. You are doing all the tooting.
Also, to confirm my lack of credibility, via your litmus test;
1. I only speak one and a half languages. English and a less than fluent Spanish.
2. I have only lived in the United States, but my Navy experience did allow me to visit half a dozen others.
3. I do not have a college degree, so obviously I must not be qualified to have a knowledgeable conversation with you.
Yet, I have had many good informative and knowledgeable conversation with other folks here that have better credentials, (by your standards). Go figure.
I think you might deserve one of Readmikenow's "Bless your hearts'.
GA
"I am certain I have encountered you before under another persona. "
You have. Do you recall a "Sophia Angelique", around late Dec, 2012, that was banned and left amongst some really nasty forum posts and badly hurt feelings?
Sounds familiar, and fits my recollection. I just didn't have the energy to go back and search.
If I remember correctly, the earlier persona got caught in a discrepancy of whether she spoke 7 or 11 languages and claimed that her profile picture, (a very attractive one), was really her, but folded her tent when it was shown that her profile picture was actually an internet image she had adopted as her own.
I really did try to ignore that last "litmus test" post, but after repeatedly seeing it when I checked the thread, temptation got the best of me.
My bad.
GA
Love the ethic idea. Teach more in schools about sexual relationship, independently, how to make money, or lessons in love. More important things we all can use alot more of.
LOL While you might (might!) get a very general agreement over very basic morality, you will never, ever get any kind of agreement with anything remotely sexual.
Will you teach total abstinence as the only acceptable form of birth control? Will you teach that sex outside marriage is sinful and to be avoided at all costs? Will you teach that prostitution is a valuable service, performed by upstanding citizens or a sin, disgusting and immoral - performed only by the dregs of society?
Will you teach that women must be completely covered at all times so as to not arouse unacceptable feelings in the boys seeing them? Will you teach that women shall never speak to a male when unaccompanied by their spouse?
And who will teach the teachers? The hierarchy of the Ku Klux Klan or the Pope? Given the coverup of Catholic priest activities, I wouldn't accept either one!
You may find sex education in school creepy.
Take it from Denmark, the happiest country in the world. Plus many countries in Northern Europe. Also personally sex has been my greatest pleasure on earth and laughing second. Plus an ultimate bond for the one I love most. Why be taught sex ignorance from teenage locker rooms and porn industry larger than Hollywood.
Sex week
The sex week campaign is run by Sex & Samfund (Sex & Society), a non-profit dedicated to improving sex education in Denmark.
It began 11 years ago as a week of programming dedicated to all aspects of sex and sexuality, tailored to different ages. Each year has a distinct theme, the most recent being “boundaries” — an in-depth exploration of digital safety, sexting, the sharing of sexual images and consent.
Comprehensive sex education is mandatory in Danish law, but Sex Week isn’t. That hasn’t hindered its popularity, however. The most recent sex week reached over 20,000 teachers and around 400,000 pupils — around two-thirds of all school-age children in Denmark.
“The political environment means we have a great framework for sex education,” said Lene Stavngaard, national director at Sex & Samfund, who cited support from politicians and a progressive sexual culture in the country as important factors in making CSE so widespread.
One particular strength of the framework, she argued, was its focus on competencies, rather than specific topics.
Danish children aren’t just expected to know about specific topics like consent, or reproductive biology, for example. Instead, they are expected to be able to understand and express themselves against much broader competencies, such as analysing gender norms, sexual rights, and different countries’ laws regarding sex.
Sex week doesn’t stop at the school gates, either. Each year also includes tasks for parents to learn how to talk about sex with their kids. This year, the challenge encouraged parents to talk to their kids about nude image sharing and online safety in six itemised conversations.
“If you don’t open space for discussions of nude image sharing online at home, and if as a parent you’re signalling [that] we can’t talk about this, then the child will feel ashamed and think it’s their own fault,” said Stavngaard.
But Stavngaard emphasised that sex week is just a way to top-up and reinforce sex education that runs throughout Danish schooling, both in stand-alone sex education lessons, and integrated into other subjects, such as biology and physical education.
Policy and practice
Stavngaard was keen to temper any notion that Denmark has entirely cracked sex education, despite its many successes.
“Denmark is often cited as a good example of sex education, but there was a recent evaluation on how sex is conducted in schools and it seems that often it’s not done very well,” she said. “Teachers aren’t always doing it and teachers don’t always have skills they require to do it well.”
That’s not a unique problem. Sweden’s sex education curriculum is often cited as an example of best practice by international researchers, but one study found that 96% of students felt sexual assault wasn’t adequately covered.
The problem is partly a skills gap that exists in teacher training curricula, said Stavngaard.
“It’s mandatory for teachers to teach sex education, but it’s not mandatory for them to learn,” she said, arguing that including CSE in teacher training courses would do much to improve the implementation of ambitious laws.
A second factor behind the gap between national policy and on-the-ground implementation is that some school heads support CSE more strongly than others. Stavngaard recommended that every principal set out a clear plan for the delivery of sex in their schools.
But she also argued that schools alone aren’t enough to ensure young people receive the CSE they need. Parents need to be engaged, and NGOs
“There are some things that are better coming from external people rather than your maths teacher,” said Stavngaard. Sexual pleasure, for example, might be better coming from an external voice. “It’s good to have a broad palette in how you deliver CSE in schools.”
The lesson from the Danish experience in Stavngaard’s eyes is clear.
“It’s not enough just to have knowledge,” she said. “Young people need to be empowered, and feel that they can make good decisions.” — Edward Siddons
child marriage school girl
Jobs and paid-for schooling can keep Tanzanian girls from early marriages
How nice for the Danish, and like them I have zero problem with sex education, all facets...as long as it meets my criteria for what is "right".
The Danes are, compared to the US, an extremely homogeneous group of people, all with pretty much the same concepts of how we should live. Which was my point; those concepts vary so widely in the US that no agreement is even close to being possible and thus, given our concept of freedom of religion (where most sexual mores originate), agreeing on a training program is not possible.
The US is probably unique in this world in that it really is a great melting pot of people. But that doesn't mean that they all conform to a universal way of life; it means that we (hopefully) tolerate other ways. And you're trying to put a common thread onto sex; probably the biggest difference we have amongst ourselves.
We know sex is a hogposh of confusions with love. It's why we need lessons in love.
Most of the top ten worst sins in America Christianity polls is about sex. I see a melting pot in interracial sex in America porn, just not in the schools. Families are too afraid to talk about it.
I think it is a great idea. The proliferation of STEM courses in fact necessitates formal introduction to ethics. How else do we make sure students are thinking about the complex social implications of tech. Today it's all a gospel: tech this, tech that, all hail tech; or the other extreme: down with tech. Ethics makes us understand that tech is really about ease of doing things, not simply things like phones, AI, and the likes. It is equally abstract as it is material (Please see: Sociology: The Essentials)
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