The Brain Unveil

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   Apostle Jackposted 13 years ago

   I beg to differ"According to the Increase" That the Mind and Brain cannot and do not direct what we say and do in life.It is spoken of about what the brain can do,but not explain concerning how it is done.
   Neurons,cells,atoms and elements of the body is to regulate matter and flesh....our Terrestrial Existence.
   There is an outside source from which Electric activity is generated....it is call Spirituality.Our spirits generate this power.
   The brain can die,...but not the spiritual things such as intelligence,personality and knowledge.
   The Brain unveil reveal the Spiritual side of our Celestial Spirits.The physical body was not design By God to speak nor communicate with Him.It is a Spiritual matter beyond scientific and technical equations.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The mind and brain, do directly make up what we say and do in life. To suggest otherwise is foolishness.
      This statement makes no sense.
      You mean, our physical nature.
      Untrue.
      This is untrue also.
      Conjecture, based on nothing by speculation.
      Conjecture based on nothing but speculation.
      No god had anything to do with existence of humans to begin with. Therefore, no god to communicate with.
      Conjecture, based on nothing but speculation.
      
      Answered.

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         Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         What I want is for you to explain it.If you can't explain it......then you don't understand it yourself.That is what is call speculation.

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Your post is speculation and nothing more. Why would I want to explain something that you speculate?
            
            I explained in my first post. Your speculation was one of the dumbest things ever posted to the forums.

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               Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Can you prove that.

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                  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Hey Jack, it's obvious from the knowledge presently available. You're the one making the dumb assertions. Why don't you prove your conjecture is anything else but conjecture/speculation.
                  
                  I don't have to, because I'm not the one who originally made the dumb statement.

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                     Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     You say that my words is just speculation ,so I ask you what proof do you have to call me a lie.So how do you know that you are right if you can't explain it?

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                        Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Do you have a comprehension problem? I said, all current knowledge available says that you are spreading conjecture/speculation.

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                           Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I see your mouth moving,,,but there are no words coming out.

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                     Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     This is knowledge about the brain,what do you know about it.What part told you that I was wrong? Which cells got together and directed you?Since you don't believe in spirituality,what part of a material substance call the brain are you referring to?

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      2. 60

         mathsciguyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Sweet mercy, Cagsil!  You gotta find a better format for replying specifically to different points in preceding posts.  Maybe a quote of the particular part to which you are referring might make your counterpoints easier to match up to the originally proposed assertions. 
         Just a friendly suggestion.

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you Math. I'll take it under advisement.

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   2. 78

      thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      So what you are saying is, you don't understand electrons?

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         Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You are the one that don't understand where it comes from and how everything within the body is affected by it.You are seeking answers....I already know the answer.

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            thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Unfortunately from your own post you have shown you do not know the answer.  The truth is that you have deluded yourself.
            
            I think it is interesting how self important you must feel in yourself to be able to ignore science and make up your own stories without any basis of understanding.
            
            Tell me, what's the spiritual significance of lightening?
            
            Does my laptop have a soul?

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               Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Lightening is not spiritual.I speak according to the Increase and with Confidence.

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                  thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  So please explain the difference between the flow of electrons in a Human and a bolt of lightening.
                  
                  I strongly advice you to read the wide selection of books out there which contain information on this kind of thing that are worth a good read!

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                     Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     The power is different and from a different source.So the explanation is also different.

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                        thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Except if you look at an electon level electricity is electricity, it is the same, so you fail, completely. Sorry.
                        
                        Look a little further than what your own eyes and a lack of education see.

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                           Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I know that you can't explain what you just said.The smart ones always know the lease.

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                              thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              That's the kind of thinking that caused the dark ages.  Maybe you would like to explain how obtaining more knowledge makes you the least knowledgeable.
                              
                              Maybe it would be worth considering the fact that people who find out how things work might be best placed to explain these things to you?

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2. 69

   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Okay, this is the dumbest thing I've seen so far in any post. But, extremely funny.

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Who knows.....you might even learn something.Do you have any knowledge to add to it?

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3. 69

   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Here, let me make it simple for you.
   
   Do you even know the difference between the brain and the mind?

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      They are both the same thing.Scientist call it the mind as a scientific phrase,but it is a brain.How simple is that?

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Hey Jack,
         
         The brain is the physical. The mind is the capacity of said brain.
         
         Therefore, they are not the same thing.

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You are speaking about the same thing.Mind is just a separated definition for the same word.

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               No it is not.

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                  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Can you explain the Mind without using the brain?

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4. 89

   wildernessposted 13 years ago

   Interesting theory, that a source outside the body generates the electricity that flows in our neurons.  Lets take a look at it.
   
   Electricity is the flow of electrons down a conductor.  It may be electrons moving in a metallic wire that goes from a generator (hoover dam) to a light bulb and back.  It may be flowing from a battery through the body and chassis of a car to the starter motor and back on a wire.  It might even be flowing through the air from a cloud to the earth in the static display called lightning (yes, air is a conductor when the voltage is high enough).  In all cases, though, it is the movement of electrons.
   
   You are proposing that some outside, immaterial source creates these electrons (with their negative charge) and inserts them into our neurons.  Just where is the point of input?  We have no wires protruding from our skull...  If electrons are indiscriminately added to an object that object takes on a negative charge that must and will be discharged.  Where is the point of return to this unreal generator?  We don't run around sparking all the time...Just how are these electrons created?  Are anti-electrons created at the same time as a balance (with their own associated problems), or are there atoms floating around our heads with a positive charge after electrons are stripped from them?
   
   No, it would seem that there is too much evidence against an immaterial, unreal electrical generator for each and every person to consider the theory viable, let alone factual.  Sorry.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This proves my point. Current knowledge available says that Jack was only speculating and/or passing along conjecture.
      
      Thank you Wilderness.

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         wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You're welcome.  I might suggest to Jack that he present speculation as just that - speculation - and politely inquire if anyone has any knowledge that would disprove it rather than present it is factual information.

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            

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      2. 60

         Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Wilderness,,.....knowledge speak for itself.Your brain theory don't hold any water.Let us talk about what make the brain cells,and what they are for.And let us see where your electricity come from.

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You left out the explanation of spirituality,so therefore your findings are not complete.Electrons did not create themselves, and they don't exist by themselves.I know it is hard to admit and that it is a hard pill to take,but it is as it is.
      Where did your electricity come from?What elements are there that can perform that task.

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      1. 89

         wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You don't seem to understand.  It takes exactly one contrary fact to disprove a theory but it takes many, many facts all in agreement to make a theory viable.  It also takes such things as peer review and experimentation before any theory can be accepted as factual.  Your presentation of your conjecture as factual and real does not and cannot make it so.
         
         Whether I explain spirituality to your satisfaction is immaterial.  Whether I teach you where electricity comes from is immaterial.  Whether I show you what elements might perform electrical generation is immaterial. 
         
         The only thing that does matter is that I have shown you not one, but several factual reasons why you conjecture cannot be real. 
         
         Your claims of my ignorance of other unrelated questions does not change that you have been given factual reasons why the theory cannot be true.  Until YOU can rebut those reasons the theory will remain in the trash can as worthless.
         
         Should you wish to continue the dissection of your theory I would expect a rebuttal of the facts I have proffered, beginning with the location and makeup of the electrical conductor passing the bony skull into the soft brain tissue inside.
         
         As a side issue I might ask how the electric eel generates the massive electrical charge it uses to kill its prey.  Does it, too, have an invisible eternal spirit generator working for it or does it make the electricity organically with it's own tissue?  Just a thought for consideration....

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            If you don't know...just say so.All your excuses can't patch the holds in your philosophy.You may fool a lot of people,but not all people.
            
            The eel has a spirit as well that generates his power.

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               wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You haven't provided any rebuttal to the problems yet...
               
               Ignoring the problems and holes in your theory won't make them go away - you must patch the holes with explanation before trying to float the boat again. 
               
               When you have done so we can address your other questions.  With several decades of training and practical experience in the electrical field I humbly submit that I have a little more knowledge than you do in that area and am happy to share what I have.

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      mathsciguyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      A-ha!  wilderness to the rescue! 
      
      This is the point I'd have made had I got in here sooner.  It does seem to me like ApostleJack is arguing that the synaptic activity in the brain is literally directly caused by a person's soul. 
      BUT - I do have one thing to add.  You may have noted that one of the assertions in ApostleJack's thesis is that the electricity in the brain has no known source, and therefore must be from an unknown spiritual source (ie, the soul).  However, the electricity in the brain is not so mysterious as he supposes.  Like other cells in the body, brain cells have a bit called mitochondria.  These sub-cellular pieces are responsible for converting most of the body's ATP, a chemical which reacts in the body to create energy.  This reaction results in what is called an electrochemical gradient along the cell membrane (Peter Mitchell won the Nobel for Chemistry for his work regarding the production of electrical energy by ATP), which in turn becomes your source of energy.
      
      So, if you want to call the mitochondria your "soul", then there is absolutely nothing wrong with ApostleJack's theory.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Hey Math, wouldn't that rewrite the definition?

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            mathsciguyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah, I reckon so - but, hey, maybe it's a definition that needs rewriting?

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               And, at this point, I would disagree.

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                  mathsciguyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I suppose you're right.  Hey what the hell is that on your new image there?

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                     Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     That's good.
                     His name is Tyrael. He is a character from Diablo II - Lord of Destruction, computer role playing game. He is an Angel.

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5. 73

   earnestshubposted 13 years ago

   I don't know which electric eel species you have observed. Was it a mythical one?
   
   
   The real ones store chemical energy provided by their own body, then convert it to electricity.

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      wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Makes you wonder if fireflies have teeny tiny photon-generator-spirits just outside their little butts, doesn't it?

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         earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Or that oranges,lemons and other citric fruits have little spirits in them so they can produce electrical current for that matter.

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            wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Potatoes!  Potatoes are good for that! (You'd never guess I live in the potato state would you?)

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yes of course... the humble spud! I saw it on a kids show a few years back.

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         Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It might make you wonder,I already know why.

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Not without a spirit they don't.Matter and flesh don't produce anything but cells and elements of the body.Explain how it is done...I say you can't.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I swear, you have a comprehension problem. Did you not actually read Earnest's post?

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Did you not read what this post is all about?

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I did read what this pathetic post is about and it is also apparent that you have a comprehension problem. It's called not reading what is written.
               
               Then again, it could be just like my last post says...you have chosen to be ignorant about things. It's a choice you made. Nothing more, nothing less.

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         wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Take a container.  Stick in a few lead plates, connected together and with a wire leading out of the container.  Fill the remaining container space with sulphuric acid.  Stick a wire into the acid, again leading out of the container.  Voila!  Electricity from nothing but a container and two chemicals.  It's called a battery in laymans terms.
         
         There are a thousand replacement materials for the lead, and another thousand for the sulphuric acid.
         
         Every animal on earth is composed of chemicals and every animal with muscles and/or nervous tissue has the ability to make batteries in its body.  Electric eels have the ability to make a BIG battery.
         
         Rats!  I wasn't going to tell you how organic tissue can produce electricity until you solved the other electrical problems with your out-of-body-spirit-generator.  Oh well.

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I never knew scientist is prove the brain produce electricity ,and you can't tell me how it is done if they had.

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         earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Actually I can  explain how the brain communicates using electricity..... and in great detail if you like.
         I didn't see anyone claim the brain made electricity though.

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6. 69

   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   The brain is the physical item. If a doctor cut open your skull, he will find the brain.
   
   The mind is the capacity/storage of the brain.
   
   Thus, they are TWO different things.

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      dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      watch out Cag now he claim he is two in one!!!!!!     lolololol

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         He already is making the claim that a spirit resides, yet cannot prove it. It's okay. All he knows how to do is make claims.

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            dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I know, I read it, did not know or have anything to comment about it, except that I thought it was a bio-chem kinda thing the impulse's in a human brain, not an invisible spirit???   I am no expert though.

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I'm no expert either. Wilderness has more knowledge about it than I do. Earnest has more knowledge about it than I do. Just Jack, doesn't know Jack.

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                  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Can you explain the mind without using the brain?If not....then they are one and the same.

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                     Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Read your own thread. It's been explained. DUH!

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   2. 89

      wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Cags, I realize I'm hijacking the thread here but..
      
      I agree that the storage, or more precisely the contents of that storage - the memories stored - are part of what I conceive of as mind. 
      
      Would you also consider the energy/electrical density pattern, the interconnections of neurons, the activity of the brain to be part of the mind?  I lack the words for what I'm trying to describe, and it borders (or is entirely) metaphysical but is the best I can do. 
      
      Storage seems incomplete for what I consider the mind to be.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It's not a problem. You're not hijacking anything, because you're still on topic.
         Capacity is the only word I should have used. Not storage. The mind(capacity) expands.
         The activity you refer to is consciousness(on all levels).

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            wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            OK, I'm with you then.  A different use of terminology is all. 
            
            I would have very nearly equated consciousness and mind while leaving capacity as part of the physical brain.  The number of neurons and interconnections between them.  The neuron count apparently decreases as they die and don't regenerate but the interconnections are what really seem to count and they change all the time.
            
            Different word usage for the same concepts.

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Agreed!

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                  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Amazing, isn't it, just how...intelligent ...a conversation can be when two people actually try to understand and learn?

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                     Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Wilderness.....patience and openness is key. Always a pleasure my friend.

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                        wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes, it has been a pleasure.  But it is already past my bedtime - you have a good night Cagsil.

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   3. 60

      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Can you explain the mind without using the brain?

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You cannot have a mind, if you don't have a brain.

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Then it must be the same thing.They do not have separate definitions  nor separate existence.......because they are one and the same.

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            They are one and the same ,as i first said.

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7. 64

   SandyMcCollumposted 13 years ago

   I've never watched someone so diligently fling himself on a pitchfork time after time just to prove he doesn't know what he's trying to say while he tries to look smart.
   
   And you guys were so patient with him. Good on you.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      My point have already been made,and my purpose have already been achieved.

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         SandyMcCollumposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, I agree. You're ignorant and you've proved it more than once.

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            

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8. 69

   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Sorry folks. I am bowing out of this one. Stupidity can only be tolerated for only so long, before it becomes obvious that chosen ignorance is actually occurring.

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9. 60

   Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago

   Ever wonder why such an all knowing deity would choose mostly ignorant folks to try and make others believe in his existence?  I think it's a requirement of some sort. 

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It is to show God's ingenuity and power above  that of humankind.He takes the smallest thing and make it the greatest.Education from God is different from world knowledge.I am His example of such education.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Then the only thing you've proven is that your god is ignorant moron.

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         wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         If God is your teacher and your purpose here was to show the world an example of His work I congratulate you.  You have shown, without even the merest shadow of doubt, that God is a total incompetent.

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            At it again, huh Wilderness. Still trying... I think I said something similar to what you said, but I said it earlier today.

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               wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Like you, still fishing.  Looking for that spark of intelligence supposedly built into the human race.  Searching diligently, but finding naught but the dross of Gods educational process.
               
               Yes you did.  Similar but not identical.  Perhaps the proper term is an incompetent moron?

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                  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  

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10. 78

    thisisoliposted 13 years ago

    People used to think the world was flat, because they could see the horizon...

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11. 61

    DuchessDuCaffeineposted 13 years ago

    Humans are funny animals. We think we are the smartest mammals because we have opposable thumbs and because no other animal has come right out and told us that we aren't. Perhaps we are. When I was younger, pondering and researching such things, I came up with many answers; these, in turn, only created more questions.
    
    Science or spirit? Spirit or science? Which is right? Another human trait is the default inclination to believe there can only be one solution to every question. This is ironic when one considers the intricate balance of opposable qualities within us that allow us to exist -- never mind opposable thumbs! Our bodies are made of over 50% liquid and our brains have 'electricity' in them.
    
    Alter that intricate balance and one's heart could literally stop. What can start it again? Electricity. Yet, no one appreciates an electrical appliance dropped into their bath water; well, one that's on, that is.
    
    Personally, coming from a very unscientific background, I think it's a little science and a little spirit. By the way, about the thumbs? We may not be as superior as we think. Just the other day God told me that they were a mistake. He put them on backwards. He had to leave the Garden of Eden for a few days to deal with a couple of faulty volcanoes. By the time He returned, Adam and Eve had already learned how to use their thumbs just as they were, and He hadn't the heart to change them around. At least, that's what He told me...

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       Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       You having conversations with a god? Please seek help. Secondly, your statement proves your god that you believe in isn't perfect. Third and final strike, isn't your god supposedly omnipresent? If so, then he wouldn't had to leave the Garden of Eden to attend anything.
       
       On a side thought- Your statement also insinuates that your god is not too bright and shows the ignorance it apparently has.
       
       Just a few thoughts.

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          DuchessDuCaffeineposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, a very few, dear Cagsil.  Not being perfect myself, why would I expect perfection from God, or anyone for that matter? Perfection; now there's a relative and subjective myth. That's alright, though.  It's a big planet. There's room for all of us! I enjoyed reading some of your other hubs last night, too. Thanks.

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             Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Interesting statement.
             Everything is subjective, until it's viewed from all sides, at which time the view changes to objective.
             Yes it is.
             Actually, soon to be running out of room.
             My hubs or comments in the forums? There happens to be a difference. If you read my comments in the forums, that would not be a surprise. If you managed to read my hubs, then I'm honored and humbled, you would take the time to do so. However, if you did read my hubs(any of them), why didn't you feel like leaving a comment? Just curious.

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                DuchessDuCaffeineposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Your hubs.  It was well beyond my bedtime but I couldn't wind down enough for sleep. During the day I transcribe audio files and sometimes my brain isn't tired but my fingers are! That's why the mouse was invented, right? I will be returning to comment very soon

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                   Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   Oh, okay.

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