Just breaking Matt Lauer fired by NBC News for inappropriate behavior.
Plenty of fake news commentators falling from their little thrones. I hope all of them that have been so utterly politically agenda driven and anti-Trump haters, will find out that the chickens really do come home to roost. Hey, I do believe in reconciliation for those who truly have a change of heart.
I have zero respect for women who bring false allegations though.
People noticed that on Nov 27th Joe Scarborough decided to delete his Trump tweets.
On Nov 29th, Trump tweets about Scarborough investigation.
Meanwhile, Luis Gutierrez is retiring from Congress and Keith Olbermann retired from the resistance.
Before every male in the country loses his job due to inappropriate behavior I think we should back up, accept that men were pigs getting away with piggish behavior. And move forward, with anything past this point constituting removal from jobs. Don't shut the door on women seeking retribution but this is really, really, getting out of hand.
I agree. This is becoming a red herring. Don't tell me the executives and co-anchors at NBC knew nothing about this. They looked the other way for years and now they are coming out...
I do think we need to clearly define what is acceptible behavior and what is not and what is criminal.
There is a scale from black to white and all the grey in between.
At what point does the behavior crosses over to be a firing offense? Or worse in the case of Harvey Weinstein into criminal charges.
Also, being charged is not the same as being guilty. Unless someone confesses, they should be treated as innocent until proven guilty...that is our standard of law and justice.
The change in recent days on this front is good for society. I have a daughter in the work force. I certainly don't want her put is a position where her job depends on favors...of any kind.
"Unless someone confesses, they should be treated as innocent until proven guilty...that is our standard of law and justice. "
Apparently not. Not any more. Now, if an accusation is made, you are probably guilty. If two people make accusations there is little doubt and if there are three, fire the SOB and jail him!
That is why we can't have mob rule... the lynching in the old West was unjust and barbaric and prone to error...
With the growing popularity of social media, and the ease of producing blogs, Mob Rule is exactly what we now have. Short of jail time, the mob is accuser, prosecutor, judge and jury; the mob requires "penalties" (settlements, job loss, ruined lives, etc.) and it may not be reasonable to expect a fair trial verdict even from a judge any more with all the hoopla screamed out.
I have to agree. All of a sudden, every man over 50ish has been an abuser of women? It's a scary thought that men are being fired from successful careers, before there is any real investigation, trial or jury verdict. At least some proof should be found before somebody's reputation and livelihood are destroyed.
You can't always believe everything you hear. It seems to me that a lot of this is politically motivated on both sides. Or has everyone gone crazy?
I'm older than I want to admit, but nobody ever tried to sexually abuse me. I know a lot of very nice men. Serial abusers should be punished, but not by "mob rule" as wilderness says, but by a trial and jury, the way our legal system is set up. And I hate to speak against my own sex, but I always taught my son and his friends that women can be mean, and often make up charges to hurt a man-- because she was rejected by him, or he got a job she wanted. She may go as far and low as to say a man has abused her child, the worst accusation in society. I have seen it happen more than once.
I am sympathetic to any women who HAS been abused, and by the way, men get abused too. Soon we will all be living so we won't be able to interact with the other sex. That's a sobering thought.
Politically motivated, or maybe just for the expected settlement monies. Or dislike of someone. There could be many reasons, and there is no doubt in my mind that not all the reasons is because of past abuse.
That is precisely what feminism has brought. You can't hold a door, or pay a compliment to a co worker without being called a sexist.
I don't think first wave feminism is to blame for all this. I do think it confused men a lot though. At the time, many women felt unappreciated as they spent all day doing errands, cooking and tending to household chores, and childcare duties. These all must be done, but housewives didn't have any other outlets for their energies. They wanted to visit friends, have time for a hobby, or maybe just do anything of interest that didn't revolve around family. Not because they didn't love their husbands and families. But many of those chores are not very intellectually stimulating, and it gets boring. A lot of women back then, like my Mom, didn't drive. She was dependent on a man who was always at work, as she didn't work outside the home. And he was tired when he got home, but was always a good sport, and found time to help if he could. My Dad didn't require much sleep. And he probably often felt unappreciated too.
So even though the women wanted help with all the housework and childcare duties, to show they had other skills and talents, the men worked all day and didn't really spend much time with the kids. My Dad worked two jobs, but still found time for my brother and me. But many men considered their children's care and all household duties "women's work." And remained stubborn, not budging to try to help her try to achieve her other dreams or goals in life. Even if she supported him on family money of hers all the years he went to college, then he often left her and his kids for a younger woman once he became successful, someone who never sacrificed for him or a marriage. It's a give and take.
So when women began going out to pursue a hobby once a week, learned to drive, and later got jobs, the men had to pitch in more at home. It's hard to get jazzed by doing laundry and vacuuming.. By the time I married, my husband and I both worked outside the home, about the same amount of hours. We got home at the end of the day, cooked together, cleaned together, and got it all done, more based on who could do what better. I was a lousy cook! He could never make a budget or balance a checkbook.
We wanted men who were more sensitive. And I was lucky, my husband was a great guy and was devoted to me, he always tried hard to be fair to me, and I him. But as women got more successful at careers, it seemed to upset some men, and some resented that women could do the same jobs (even though it's still for less money).
Men in the workplace didn't know how to behave around women. I was on job interviews where I was told, "You're married, and are just going to have babies, why should I promote you? You'll quit the job as soon as you get pregnant." What business was that of his? He didn't know if I had family help, or other childcare arrangements. By the time I was in my early 30's, nobody could live on one paycheck anymore. Women had to wait until they were older to marry if they went to college, and have children older to get farther in the job market. But that doesn't mean men should have been exposing themselves to women in the workplace. Who raised men who thought behavior like that was ever OK?
So where do we go from here? Do we want a culture like Saudi Arabia or terrorist nations who treat women as second class citizens? And women take advantage of men too. I know many who just kept having babies they couldn't afford because they didn't want to work, not because they had love to share or really wanted more kids. They had no marketable skills. And we have many men in government who want to deprive these women of birth control, forcing them to avoid sex or be saddled with children they either don't want or can't afford, making it impossible to work. Today we have to treat each other as equals. I am not insulted if a man tells me I look nice, or a good friend puts his arm around me. But if I walk into a room I don't want to see his private parts and he better stay away from mine.
Shall we have separate forums for men and women at HP? It gets as silly as we make it.
These men should have these allegations examined at a Grand Jury and if necessary, go to trial. But they shouldn't be ostracized on someone's say-so, and then a bunch of women pile on. Then it's about money. Don't blame it on Feminism. We should all treat each other with respect, and recognize that men can be nurturing, and women can be intelligent. We all have different personality traits. First wave Feminists just wanted to be recognized for having the brains to do more than iron, cook, and be baby making machines. The further waves get more confusing.
Thanks for the long explanation on feminism. I did not mean to imply the latest events are connected to feminism in any way. Just a commentary about how modern feminism have made tradtional practices that seem harmless to be in question. Also, the notion that women can have it all, family, career... is a myth. A family has various roles by each member and there is no equality per se. We do what is expected of each of us, mothers, fathers, grand parents, extended members...
All for the sake of raising kids in a loving nurturing environmemt and then grow up to be responsible citizens of society.
That is what was lost, when mothers started joining the workforce and delegating child rearing to nurseries and nannies.
Sorry to write a book! I never liked women who left their kids in awful childcare centers with unknown care takers. It's true, we all try to do our part to make a marriage work and teach our children.
And I believe women found out we can't have it all. But we can have a lot.......
I can't for the life of me understand why a man thinks a woman wants to see him expose himself in the workplace. Yuck.
Hogwash. I've known two househusbands, staying home while their wives pursued a career. Both had happy, well-adjusted families - women having jobs does NOT mean that a loving, nurturing environment is lost.
I totally agree. When Jacklee blamed the sexual oddities that are occurring on Feminism, my explanation of it was the original one that came about in the 1960's, before we saw househusbands and mannies taking care of kids while women worked. He didn't seem to understand it. I was discussing a time when it WAS very rare for women to work outside of the home. I am 62, and when I was in elementary school, only one woman in my class worked outside the home (my best friend's Mom). And I was trying to understand why Jacklee was blaming male bad behavior on that.
Social norms have changed a lot since then, and I also know and see many loving and nurturing men who are willing to make a family work no matter what the wife does, work or not. I described my own marriage that way. Something must be lost in the translation here, we agree. I just thought he was wrong blaming badly behaved men on the feminist movement. And I don't even get what some of the really young women want in successive waves of feminism. I think as long as the couple is happy, they should do whatever works for them.
I like men and didn't suggest they had no nurturing qualities .
I think the only blame that can be laid on feminism, if even that qualifies, is that it produced more contact between men and women either unmarried or married to someone else. And that's hardly an excuse for what we're seeing today.
True. It seems to have caused confusion, although it still doesn't explain why certain men think a woman wants to see their private parts, when it's a work situation. (IF they truly are) Honestly though, if it happened to me, I think I'd just walk out of the room, or say something humorous to diffuse the tension and try to forget about it. Then I'd stay away from his office. Far from it.
It is a sad commentary about how we live that people don't value older family. Elderly people have so much knowledge to give. Other cultures revere their elders, and we get that wrong. Plus if they are healthy, many have to keep working, as you said.
Anyway, we shouldn't turn this into a family thread. I guess we are trying to understand and explain this bad behavior. Much of our character development is said to happen by the time we are three years.old, and depends on our family upbringing.
I almost don't want to see who gets accused today. I liked some of these people, and we are losing some good journalists, in a time when it's harder and harder to sort out the truth.
You are talking about two different case. I agree a man can do the same a women did as the main care taker. There are families where the mother is the main bread winner and the husband is the main house maker. What I was talking about is when both parents have full time jobs and careers and sent their young kids to full day nursery school.
In my culture, we have grand parents living at home to help care for the young while the parents are out working. This is not the American culture. It worked well both for the kids, and the parents and the grand parents. It is the traditional Chinese way of old.
I'll agree with you there - few people truly understand the cost of that second job and the return from it. Far too many of our children are raising themselves, and all for the almighty dollar.
"...and all for the almighty dollar."
Welll.... For too many of us, that almighty dollar from that second income earner was the dollar that fed and clothed us. I think that in today's world, that second income is more a necessity than a choice.
My opinion differs. I see that second income buying a bigger house, a second car, cable TV, a fancy smart phone, Starbucks coffee, night at the movies or eating out, name brand clothing and shoes, a boat in the driveway or a week at DisneyLand etc. Luxuries, not necessities.
I know that we have people, lots of people, out there that do depend on it for food on the table, but I also think they are a small minority.
America and Baskin-Robbins... Ain't choice great! Butter-pecan for you, and Chocolate for me.
97 and counting...
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-97-me … o-movement
Today I heard about celebrity chef Mario Batali. Not sure what he allegedly did, I was madly knitting a Christmas gift which has to be mailed to CO. I saw his name on the crawl of a news station. Yikes. Making personalized gifts seemed like a nice, old fashioned idea, and I have a lot of extra yarn from previous projects, so it was a thrifty idea as well. Time is running out on me.....
If people are going back to the culture of the 1970's (I was too young in the 60's to understand such matters) there will be a lot more men to fall. I'm upset about Al Franken. It was a hard road to be a star on Saturday Night Live as a comedian, and then be taken seriously enough to become the senior Senator of MN.
And it bothers me none of these men have been charged or had any legal representation or trial. It's all in the court of public opinion. Has anyone heard of any cases where women sexually abused men? Just curious. I don't like this culture of demonizing all men for the possible actions of a few. Women have been known to lie.
you know, when I suggested in these forums that maybe, just perhaps, we need to re-evaluate our use of the "hanging mob" (my terminology for "court of public opinion") I was jumped on with both feet and beaten violently, even if only verbally.
I've been waiting with bated breath to see the blood flow here, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen. Obviously a bad case of sex discrimination and/or abuse!
I was ready to defend Matt Lauer but the allegations made in the article in Vanity Fair are such that I think I need to wait and see what part of that is true and what not.
Whether we can prosecute for many of the allegations coming out on multiple people I think we can all agree that we need to reevaluate our attitudes and the way our culture views things. It will be difficult. What with sexual prowess in men being celebrated to the degree it is.
No argument - our culture needs to see some change here. Change on the parts of both men AND women.
But I am concerned that it seems that we're giving up our entire concept of justice to accomplish it. A hanging mob, a court of public opinion, mob rule - call it what you will, it is not the way to go. Lives are being ruined, and at least one lost, because of unsupported allegations.
I agree with Wilderness. Everybody is so quick to jump on the bandwagon, but there is no proof. Only gossip. What happened to our legal principles?
It's true that the culture has changed a lot, especially when some of these alleged actions took place over 30 years ago. Younger men are taught that the wrong kind of attention to a woman in the workplace is a no/no. A few years ago a man I worked with told me I looked nice, as we opened the bank one morning, was mortified, and immediately apologized. That's taking this issue too far the other way.
It's not right or fair for a man at the top of his career to be taken down over something that may or may not be true. I'm not defending all of them, but women need to take personal responsibility and stay out of the way of men they believe are sexual predators. Many people knew certain men had reputations for that kind of bad behavior in the workplace, & should have made sure they asked someone to come with them into his office, or asked him to come out. I never went into a man's office alone unless the door was open. I don't even do that with my doctor!
No offense intended Live to Learn, you may have been looking for skin care reviews for a specific issue, or trying to find out what product you need to get gel nail polishes off. (If you find out, please let me know, whatever I buy doesn't work). But don't look for hard news in a place like Vanity Fair.
Actually, I've never read the magazine. I don't buy them and I'm more prone to pick up a Reader's Digest to read the funny stories when in a waiting room. I saw that on the internet and read it. Quite shocking, if true.
I agree that women should take responsibility. One of the stories about him was a woman went into his office, he told her to unbutton her blouse, he came around the desk and had sex with her. She supposedly passed out and had to be taken for medical attention. If true, I see no punishable crime. My primary question would only be why are they hiring idiots. Who unbuttons their blouse when asked to at work? Who remains in an office with an undressed man?
I already had this conversation with Jean in another thread weeks ago and I don’t want to do it again, just as I won’t be particularly interested in having the same conversation with you over and over now that it’s been done.
We should just accept bosses calling women into their office, locking the door, whipping their dick out and demanding sex?
I have faith that there are enough people who don't do that, that we can fire all those who do.
Yes, don't buy into the lie that every man does this...I know plenty of men who don't and who have wives and daughters and grand daughters that they would never engage in such behavior.
These people with power and money are perverted by their own ego. They are in many ways sick and broken and have no connection to reality. Any of them could easily afford to pay for sex and yet chose to abuse their subordinates...because they could. What does that tell you about their character?
I heard years ago that all men cheat on their wives. So I did some research and it turns out the cheaters are in the minority and that they tend to be repeaters...once they cheated, it was easier to cheat again and on others... the percentage is somewhere in the 20 percent range. Also, women also cheats on their husbands... not just men. So it is a human flaw...
Of course not. You would,of course,look at that statement from the worst possible angle.
Journalist Garrison Keillor, who wrote a Washington Post article yesterday defending Al Franken was fired for his own “improper behavior”.
Keillor, who hosted the popular radio show A Prairie Home Companion, was dismissed by Minnesota Public Radio over “allegations of improper behavior” earlier today.
Drip, drip, drip...
You want someone's job, accuse them of harassment and apply for the new opening. Just look what we have come to - fired for allegations of "improper behavior"!
Hannity was being accused. What did he do? He said they were false allegations, he stood his ground and fought. His accuser crawled under a rock never to be heard from again. I hope he did sued her, sure would deserve it.
If people get fired and resign so easily, I think, very strongly, that there is something more to it. Perhaps an open secret. Otherwise, people would deny allegations and stand up and fight the good fight of faith instead. Not everyone has that kind of character to stand and fight. Some are cowards, but why?
How do you fight being laid off in a right-to-work state? You can fight losing your unemployment, but not being laid off.
I doubt that Lauer is worried about unemployment when he is suppose to be worth millions. So, the Globalists gave up a media shill because he wasn't producing for their agenda. Its not my problem, I have nothing to do with it.
Are you a fan of Matt Lauer? If so, that's what it is. I just don't understand your offensive posture (somewhat irrational) toward me. That is not like you, you are normally pretty level headed, admirably.
It seems personal to you - if you don't like the person being fired then it's OK.
But it's not OK. It doesn't matter whether I like someone or not, whether I agree with their politics or attitudes - when they are fired because of allegations that they did something wrong, there is indeed something wrong. We as a people have deteriorated to using the web and popular opinion to not only convict but to punish as well, setting aside the entire justice system to do it. We are setting ourselves up as a lawless vigilante hanging mob.
And that's wrong. No matter WHO the victim is, no matter what they are accused of or even if they are guilty, it is wrong.
I cannot speak for Lauer's employer, but it is reported that they did an investigation and made their own decision to fire because of detailed complaints.
All that aside, I hear where you are coming from and totally understand. Its like a civil war being played out right before our eyes. I suppose its more so between the white hats and the black hats in intelligence is my guess.
Added: It is not personal with me. NBC seems to have taken it personal. Now! Why now, after years of abuses? Scapegoat?
Ah how I miss the old days when getting a women involved nothing more than taking your club,bopping one on the head,and dragging her back to your cave for fun and frolic...until you got bored with her...then you could trade her to one of your buddy's for a couple of goats...or a camel...
Things havn't changed much;We do the same thing today but we use money,property,and status rather than a club...we even have a PC term for it...'Trophy Wife'...and we still trade them like baseball cards...Oh,and now they Like it cause they're compensated when trade time comes!
Funny how humans play at being evolved;Even dress up language and society to complete the illusion...but underneath we're still just ten hairs away from utter chaos as our reptilian brain struggles to assert its self...
"Monsters are Real...and ghosts are real too;They live inside us...and sometimes...they win"~Stephen King~
We should always remind ourselves of that...our survival depends on it...Don't be To hard on Matt and the boys;they're just carrying on the tradition...Merry Xmas...
It is funny how the elite and the enlightened, who think they are smarter than the rest, have lost their way when the simple rules in the Bible, given to us over two thousand years ago still ring true today.
Honesty is the best policy, treat others like you would want to be treated, and doing the right thing when no one is looking...
you are right, human nature governs our animal instincts since the dawn of man. It took the grace of God to tame our animal desires and make us human.
It is my personal opinion that we need to bring faith and religion back into the public square. Not that it will fix everything but at least most people will be taught what is right and wrong... the problem with the secular society is that there is no moral standards any more.
All humans are sinners... they should admit that and move on from there...
"Matt Lauer of the Today Show was fired by NBC News after an investigation. What we’re seeing in the recent string of what is termed “misconduct” really boils down to a morality issue—people failing to follow God’s standards, and that is called sin. The Bible tells us, “…be sure your sin will find you out.” This is a warning to all of us to examine our lives. That doesn’t just apply to movie stars, media personalities, and politicians, but to everyone. One sin leads to others and can have a great impact on our own lives and the lives of those around us. Sin can have devastating consequences—here on earth, and for eternity. But God is anxious for us to come to Him in repentance and ask for His forgiveness and help. True healing comes through trusting Jesus Christ in faith and following Him as the Lord of our lives."
~ Franklin Graham
It made my blood pressure rise when I watched Cory Feldman attempting to expose pedophiles in an interview with Matt Lauer, who undermined Feldman several times. Feldman wasn't having any of that, stood his ground and hit it out of the park.
Lauer is scum for doing that from my point of view. He was getting something like $25 million a year to do what? Protect elite pedophiles?
ADDED: Can't forget how hypocrite Lauer, demonized Trump.
Funny how the ones who scream the loudest fall.
Teddy Davis, was fired by CNN over alleged inappropriate behavior. He was the senior producer of Jake Tapper's "State of the Union" program from what I read.
"David Sweeney, National Public Radio’s (NPR) chief news editor, left the taxpayer-funded outlet Tuesday after a third female journalist accused him of inappropriate behavior."
Katie Couric in 2012: "Matt Lauer Pinches My A** A Lot!" (VIDEO)
* http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11 … lot-video/
She seemed to think it was funny. That is nasty!
What I would like to see is some list of comments any of the accusers made explaining to any of these men that they did not appreciate things done. I saw a snippet of an interview with one of the female news anchors concerning Matt Lauer. She made some comment about him always pinching her butt. Did she ask him to stop? Did she make it clear it was unwelcome?
'No' works. 'Don't do that again' is very effective. I do wonder what percentage of all of these complaints coming out of the woodwork used either of those; or anything comparable.
Good point. Some of these incidents might be avoided if the communications were clear.
I do believe there is also a sense on the part of the men that they are untouchable...for whatever the reason.
Just as I know some athletes in college and professional sports are given a pass because thy are too valuable for the team. kobi Bryant comes to mind.
I would agree that some know they are doing something wrong and believe themselves to be above reproach. The Louie CK thing comes to mind.
But, I also think many simply never had anyone point out that their behavior was unacceptable. I knew a woman once. She came up to me quite flattered that a man had complimented her breasts in, what I considered to be, a vulgar manner. She had no idea.If this man repeatedly approaches women, makes comments like that and is, at times, given reason to believe that the comments are welcome...if no on ever says 'how dare you' does he have any reason to believe he is doing something wrong?
If women do not stand up for themselves is it our responsibility to police behavior after the fact?
I Absolutely Agree...it's NEVER OK to Pinch a women's butt!....You should gently Squeeze it like a ripe tomato so you don't bruise it...huh Kettle?
An even better question would be...what does He Know about sex that I don't if he can make a woman 'pass out' from it?...I'm sure lots of us (men) would like to know that little trick...and BTW...yes...I definitely would squeeze...gently...kettle...
By the time a guy reaches his teens or early adulthood, shouldn't he be able to talk to his Mother and tell her if she is butting into his life too much? There is a difference between being domineering and loving. I'm hearing a lot of this "Happy Wife, Happy Life" nonsense, and never saw so many dominated men who humored a wife, to the point when he felt she was damaging the children, and he remained silent. So she dominated the Husband so much too, that he never challenged her on any issues? Not even about his own children?
Women's Liberation made it harder for men to relate to women in power, who could pay their own way, or even made more money than the man. Some of them feel anger about that if they were brought up in households where Mom did all the traditional housework, childcare, and was supposed to be so happy if she had the perfect mop or cleanser. This is idiocy that commercials still even try to show, and pretend is relevant in today's world. Plus many couples meet now in the workplace, more than anywhere else. This is OK if both are single, though usually frowned on. It's complicated if one of them is married and one isn't.
Many of our friends tell me or our son that they felt my husband and I had a marriage that was so great, not many could live up to it. Some of it may be sentimentality, as he has passed on. Since our son is single and eligible at 30, many think that's why he is still not married, because he felt he couldn't live up to this imaginary ideal people pinned on us. He's got 2 jobs and has a band, and doesn't have much time to date.
My Husband and I talked over all our decisions on issues, and I truly feel we were equals who respected each other, and loved each other very much. Nobody was dominated, and would have been told about it right away by the other. But Ozzie and Harriet we sure weren't! We argued like any couple.
Families should be communicating better at home. And Fathers should be teaching Sons how to behave around women. To humor women and do whatever they want to shut them up is unhealthy, especially if anger is building up inside of the man. Where is the respect there? Mom can chime in too. I am constantly surprised when I hear how some families never talk about sex or important relationship issues with their kids, when they are at the right ages.
I get a lot of confused millennials in my astrology work, who really just want advice about relationships that their parents should have taught them. Many tell me I am the only one they can talk to. I am getting clients in that age range so much, it's not about astrology anymore, I feel like a life coach.This generation cares more about their own personal growth and goals, and wants to put off serious relationships or entanglements until they reach those goals, they don't care if they are single or not.
They aren't that interested in sex, unless it's a now and then kind of arrangement, they consider serious relationships something for the far future. But they don't seem angry, just confused, or wary. Maybe they look at their parents and don't want to live the life they had, and see it as unfulfilling. Or like both parents had potentials they never had time to discover and act on.
Very insightful and good advice for millenials. The feminist movement have done damage to the traditional marriage. The unintended consequence of seeking equality when men and women are different biologically and emotionally. They were designed to complement each other and be a family.
It did damage to the traditional marriage, all right, and a good thing that was, for the traditional marriage of an order giver and a woman needed damage done to it. The concept that a man runs the house, including the woman and children in it, wasn't healthy for anyone.
Men and women complement each other, but only if strengths are allowed to come forward, and those strengths are NOT the same in every man or every woman.
In fairness to 'traditional marriage' I don't know any healthy marriage that does classify as traditional which has an order giver and a woman. That is not traditional in modern America. A situation where two people discuss, hash out, argue over (at times) and eventually arrive at a course of action to pursue is what traditional marriage is.
The public face of that union is created by allowing one party to be the mouthpiece of those decisions. It's what women do to appease the delicate sensibilities of their spouses.
The key, of course, being "modern" America. It was most definitely the norm 100 years ago, and for many, many marriages as little as 50 years ago. Even today it is not that uncommon and many use biblical scripture to support that particular form of slavery. One could argue whether such marriages are "healthy", but that seems a topic for another thread.
That was the point - that it very much needed to change and that it HAS changed (at least in this country - the middle east is still heavily rooted in the past although it IS slowly improving).
I would say that only a man would be naive enough to consider that a valid question. Pot.
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