Desperate attempt to make conservatives guilty.

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   tobey100posted 13 years ago

   Any rational person that can stomach listening to political pundits has got to believe they've lost their collective minds.  Of everything I've heard seeking to place blame for the Arizona shootings at the feet of 'conservative vitriol' James Carville has got to win first prize for digging deepest into the left's bag of irrationality and I quote:
   
   "Everything about the shootings points to politics except the evidence."
   
   I can't even wrap my mind around such a stupid comment.  Forgive me for being old fashioned but I thought in the nation it was the evidence that assigned guilt.  Not the other way around.  If everything points to politics (taken in context Carville was referencing, among other things, the rights dislike of Obama and his policies as 'hate') except the evidence.....then shutup!

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      lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      LOL! OMG! It's so typical of the left! Imagine 2 hours after the tragedy the left began their assault on Palin and the right, placing the blame for the shooting squarely on their shoulders. The bodies were barely cold when they began introducing bills to control free speech and guns!
      
      The left HATES freedom! They HATE the fact that Americans are onto to them and their agenda of the destruction of America!

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      John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It is er, I forget the word, read it as saying there is no evidence that there is any political motivation.

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      livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I'll just ask you to reread his comment again. (I've boldfaced the critical part which you seem to be missing.)
      
      "Everything about the shootings points to politics except the evidence."
      
      Get it now?
      
      This is what I mean when I say conservatives argue with strawmen more than they do liberals.

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         lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I don't get it! You just ignore the first part of that quote? Why?

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            livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            "Everything about the shootings points to politics except the evidence."
            
            I'll translate for you.
            
            "The evidence shows that this has nothing to do with politics."

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               lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Well I'm glad you realize it, now if you can only convince the author.

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                  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  He's the one who said it. The only one who apparently still needs convincing is you.
                  
                  But, go ahead and keep on misinterpreting what you read to mean the exact opposite of what was said. People who can read will just chuckle.

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                  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm sure the author understood what he wrote, his failure was not to allow for literalists who would possibly deliberately choose to misread what he said.

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                     livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Maybe it's a cultural thing. I've noticed Southerners (like Carville) and Brits use this same turn of phrase. I'm guessing LadyLove is neither a Southerner or British.
                     
                     I do think it's funny that they reactReactREACT(!) without reading it carefully, though.

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                        John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes I suppose those who say for instance that they could care less for couldn't care less might struggle with such things.

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                           livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           That has *always* bugged me, too!

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                        lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        My problem is I don't have the rest of the context in which he used that phrase so I can't possibly know what we meant, and I really don't see how you can either! So let's break it down...
                        
                        "Everything about the shootings points to politics..."
                        
                        What is he really saying here? Perhaps what he means is all of the controversy surrounding the shooting. Much has been said and written about what motivated the shooter, most of it started by the left and of course the right speaking out in defense, still almost a week later we're still at each other. So there is NO question this tragedy has been highly politicized right down to the pep rally memorial by Obama where he gave his 36 minute campagin speech. So,no he meant exactly what he said, everything about the shooting points to politics.
                        
                        "...except the evidence."
                        
                        After all there is no evidence the shooter followed politics in any way. We do know he had contact with the congresswoman before back as far as 2007. He had a letter from her with that date where he scrawled "die bitch" on it. We do know he Mein Kampf and the Communist manifesto were some of his favorite books. He was a registered independent but obviously he has a liberal. So it would appear there is some evidence of a political motivation though it's very weak and certainly not by right wing hate speech. I guess by this Carville meant exactly what he said, theres no evidence tying the shooters actions to the right, politically.

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   WalterDamageposted 13 years ago

   As much as I dislike Obama, I have to hand it to him for kicking the legs out from under the argument that right wing rhetoric was the culprit in this tragedy.

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   Daniel Carterposted 13 years ago

   Blame shot around like bullets never will solve the problem. It only feeds the hot anger and hysteria that's already going on. I for one think that neither the left or right is to blame. Loughner has to be responsible for his actions alone. It's up to each individual as to whether or not he/she is going to buy into the hate and anger of the world. The more we buy into it, the more we add to the problem. There will have to be a point where we each become the answer, not the problem. But I don't think most the world is ready for that yet.

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   BobbiRantposted 13 years ago

   To say 'it's typical of liberals' is as bad as conservatives taking offense at blanket statements.  Why is there such a climate of hatred in America?  It's gotten ridiculous.  Everyone keeps perpetuating it.

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      lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't hate the left for what they believe, I find their beliefs distasteful, immoral, and wrong and I find it unacceptable of them to constantly be trying to impose their beliefs on society.

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         Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You mean the way the force religion down the throats of those with differing beliefs in this country? You don't mind the shoving at all, you just don't like it when the shoving is being done against your beliefs right. Shove as I say and not as I shove, makes perfect sense to you. I find it unacceptable that the right has taken it upon themselves to save that thing called my soul even though I dont believe I have one.

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            lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Who is shoving religion down your throat? Where do you live?

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               Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Just below the buckle of the bible belt. Right down in there with the nuts. Upstate sc and if you doubt religion is treated like it was an idea of a godlike thinga ma jig or something, log on to my local paper and read the stroller column or the letters to the editor. Check out the religious section of our sunday paper. Pay special attention to the ads baptist preachers take out in this paper to condemn homosexuals.

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                  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  www.goupstate.com

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            WalterDamageposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, exactly who is shoving religion down your throat, Stump?  True, there is a church on every corner, but I am unaware of any God Squad militia rounding folks up every Sunday and forcing them to sing "Amazing Grace".

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               Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Take a look at the christian conservatives in Texas and tell me they aren't attempting to force their religion down the throats of all American children. They have taken it upon themselves to lower the quality of SAmerican education every chance they get. If you dont think that re-writting history by removing fact and inserting a version of the facts that support the rediculous claim that America was founded on their version of the principle of freedom of religion. They feel that all are free to believe and worship anyway they desire as long as it is just like they worship.

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         Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You mean all of the stuff like "Obama is a Muslim" and "Obama isn't an American citizen"?  Now who was that saying these things?  Do you remember who said these things, LaLo? 

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            lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            No I don't should I? I really don't pay too much attention to the fringe stuff. I don't think Obama is religious at all. I think Obama uses religion to further his political agenda... why else would he eject the Rev Wright after 20 years? That just shows what kind of man Obama is. I never doubted his citizenship. I'd like to think if he really wasn't a citizen, he's got enough enemies who would have exposed him by now.
            Let's face it, the man's father was a Muslim and Obama was schooled for a time in Indonesia a predominantly Muslim country. I don't think there is any DOUBT that he sympathizes with Muslims and we've seen it time and again, his Apology tours, his refusal to call the Fort Hood shooter a terrorist etc.

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               John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Shock horror! Sympathises with Muslims! How terrible, what next, he sympathises with Christians!

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                  WalterDamageposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  You'll have to forgive those of us who are not in favor of pulling out the guest chair for people who wish to see us either converted, enslaved, or dead....

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                     lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     LMAO! I couldn't have said it better!

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                        Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        That figures, walter states that he dislikes people who treat him the same way he treats others and lalo agrees with him. converted, enslaved or dead is only an acceptable way to treat non-believers if your a christian. How dare another group act like the holier than thou christians in America.

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                     Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Christians did this for years.  Remember slavery in this country?  But those weren't real christians doing these things, were they.  Oh, and don't forget the Native Americans and the Iraqi invasion.
                     
                     I remember Ann Coulter saying "We should give the muslims in the Middle East a chance to convert to Christianity and if they don't, we should just kill them.

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                     John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     And that, you reckon, is the average Muslim and all deserve to suffer!
                     
                     This man who shot Giffords is American. Do you thus hold every other American to the beliefs shown by him?

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                        WalterDamageposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Nope, the element who wish to do us harm must be defeated.  I am quite sure all Muslims do not agree with the tactics of the fringe (although you rarely if ever hear from any)

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                           John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           So you'd condemn Obama for sympathising with Muslims who hold "American" views and values?

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                              WalterDamageposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              I don't care if Obama sympathizes with a one-eyed Episcopalian kangaroo, but I do want him to pull up his man britches and learn how to fight a war to win it, not try and see how quickly we can retreat,.....

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                                 livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Tell that to the Tea Party.
                                 
                                 They want NO government, which means no military.

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                                    WalterDamageposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Perhaps you can point to the specific line in any of the Tea Party material that says that they are in favor of no government and no military.
                                    
                                    Can you?  Yeah, I thought not......

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                                       lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       Yeah How can you be FOR the constitution and AGAINST government? The constitution IS government!

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                                       livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       I didn't realize the Tea Party was a centralized party with one platform.
                                       
                                       I've heard plenty of Tea Partiers who've answered "All of them!" when asked what government programs should be cut.

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                                          lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          Yeah so? What's wrong with that? Aren't you libs for shared sacrifice? Cut them all 20% across the board!

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                           Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I know what you mean walter, you never hear the mainstream christians denouncing fringe attempts to persecute homosexuals. How do you propose to hear a muslim speak any thing but a threat if you never turn of the Faux News Propaganda Service? Do you think Murdoch would permit a positive image of the islamic religion? he has to keep the hatred stirred up so Americans dont start complaining about the 700 billion dollars we have to spend to defend this country from the very terrorists we are creating, dontcha know?

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               Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You don't remember this?  Why am I not surprised?  LOL!

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                  lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Show me the post! I DARE you! It doesn't EXIST!

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                     Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I didn't say you posted it, I just asked if you remembered any of this being discussed.  Still waiting for your yes or no answer on the other question, LaLo.

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         John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         But you are happy for the right to do that, in fact so happy you'll even join in.

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            lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You never answered my question! Where is the love John? LOL

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               John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Well you'll have to excuse me, I have no idea what you are talking about.

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                  lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Why am I not surprised!

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                     John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Well, you do make a habit of skipping around like a spring lamb, it doe's involve a bit of effort keeping up with you.

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   lovemychrisposted 13 years ago

   Interesting read:
   
   "The right has always engaged in hatred, violence and the demonization of "the other." --the violence against others over just the last two years should be a wake up call for the rest of us. There have been over 1,000 death threats a month against obama alone--not to mention all of the murders and violence perpetrated by the right since obama was elected. So we should just start referring to the violent actions of the extreme right for exactly what it is--"white terrorism." Here's an article from Alternet well worth the read.
   
   "Compare this with the lack of political violence during the Bush era, when passions were equally inflamed. This stark contrast demands an explanation for why there have been so many political murder sprees in less than two years. The answer can be found within the strain of reactionary politics that dominates the American Right. The Right thrives on mobilizing group resentment, and the range of its targets over the last 50 years is astonishing: gays and lesbians, African Americans, Latinos, feminists, welfare recipients, reproductive-rights activists, Muslims, undocumented immigrants, government officials, criminals, liberals, antiwar activists, organized labor."
   
   "Neiwert argues these are all examples of “eliminationism” – “a politics and a culture that shuns dialogue and the democratic exchange of ideas in favor of the pursuit of outright elimination of the opposing side, either through suppression, exile and ejection, or extermination.” He adds, “Eliminationism has become an endemic feature of modern movement conservatism …. It shows itself as an unwillingness to argue the facts or merits of issues and to demand outright the suppression or violent oppression (and ultimately the purgation) of elements deemed harmful to American society.” Ground zero for eliminationist rhetoric is the right-wing media, where comments about “poisoning Pelosi,” fantasizing about “killing Michael Moore,” telling listeners they should “shoot...dead” 9-11 conspiracy theorists, “don’t kill all the liberals, leave...two on every campus; living fossils,” and much, much more."
   
   http://www.alternet.org/teapar...

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      lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      In would be interesting if it contained a shred of truth!

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         Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Dispprove any of it lady, you're mighty good at pointing out lies as long as no one questions your word. When that happens you hit the rabbit hole and disappear, screaming foul. I am beginning to think you must be a preacher, you sure are used to having people say aman when ever you utter anything. This isn't your local church lady, people here question and research information presenyted as facts by people who cant spell the word let alone understand the meaning of it.

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