Where Can I Find the FAQ About How HubPro Changes Our Rights to Hubs?

1. 89

   Kylyssaposted 8 years ago

   I've hunted hither and yon and I've yet to find the page describing how HubPro editing changes our rights to our articles.
   
   Typical magazine article editing involves the editor fixing typos, rewriting a few sentences for clarity, cutting content, working with layout, and instructing the author to write any additional content needed. This makes it so the rights to the article are never in question; the author is selling only FNASR and the post-editing text of the article still belongs to its author to use as desired after the amount of time stipulated in the contract expires.
   
   HubPro works much differently. The HubPro editor rewrites the article and adds new content written by themselves with very little input from the hub's author.
   
   In my opinion, this leaves the rights to the hub on shaky ground. Is it legally still mine? Does this mean I've given my rights to the material away to HubPages in exchange for them changing it? How long do they get to use it?
   
   
   P.S. I wrote this question under ads and earnings questions because I couldn't find the copyright questions section.

   replyreport
   1. 86

      Robinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You still own the rights to your work.    Your Hub is already really good, and it sounds like your editor has a great plan that she has communicated with you.  We want this to be a collaborative process.  I hope when the process is over, you will be very happy.  Please share your experience with us.  We improve every day and want Hubbers to see this service as an asset—not a criticism of their work.

      replyreport
      1. 89

         Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I'm writing a hub comparing HubPro editing to other types of editing and I want to give unambiguous and correct information straight from the TOS.
         
         I was uneasy about the unorthodox editing system after my experiences with more traditional modes of editing. I'm no longer uneasy now that I understand the differences. It did, however, occur to me that since the editing is approached differently, perhaps there were other differences and that looking at the TOS I agreed to by using the site would clarify what they were and give me more information for my hub.
         
         Question: Where I can find the part of the terms of use that explains how hubber copyright works after the HubPro editing process?
         
         A URL is really all I'm looking for. I hunted and couldn't find it by myself so I decided to ask for help finding it.

         replyreport
         1. 86

            agvulpesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Kylyssa did you find this page in the Learning Centre:
            http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/How- … d_22905496

            replyreport
            1. 89

               Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, thank you. That's all I could find, too. Unfortunately, it doesn't explain how the editing services work with copyright, such as whether or not we'd need to rewrite a hub we moved elsewhere if it had editing services applied to it that resulted in adding content written by the editor.

               replyreport
         2. 86

            Robinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Your copyright does not change after editing.  You still own the content.  We don't have a page that explicitly describes this, but I will look into it.  Right now, after editing, you are free to do as you please with the content.

            replyreport
            1. 89

               Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you. I'd like my articles about the process to be as accurate as possible and sourced from HubPages TOS whenever possible.
               
               What's to keep people from posting hubs, getting them altered by HubPro and then taking the professionally edited versions off to their own websites?
               
               I'm particularly interested in things such as whether or not a hubber would have to rewrite a hub to move it elsewhere post-editing to avoid infringing on whatever rights to the content HubPages earned by heavy editing and content addition. And, if rewriting were sometimes to be required to avoid infringing on the HubPages editor's rights after moving a hub elsewhere, how much of the hub would need to be new material for this to occur?
               
               As you know, contracts involving copyright are handled very, very differently in the print world and in the professional world online compared to how they are handled on sites like HubPages. This is a site where writers post so it shouldn't be surprising that we'd be interested in knowing the differences between the contracts and policies of different types of publishers. It's shop talk for people who earn their living by creating intellectual property.

               replyreport
               1. 86

                  Robinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Monitoring the movement of content isn't something we want to spend our energy on right now.  We want to be focused on the Hubbers that want to be apart of our community and work on the improvement of our corpus.

                  replyreport
                  1. 89

                     Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     I'm not calling you to action; I'm noting differences and checking with the source to be certain I'm correct. I'm not judging the ambiguity of the copyright contract hubbers agree to by using HubPages; I'm making note of it and making sure I'm correct about it before I go publishing articles and hubs talking about it. You don't need to feel threatened or upset by these questions.
                     
                     An explanation of the differences and similarities between HubPro editing and the types of editing writers are more familiar with would go a long way toward soothing concerns about the program. People like to know what they are doing and what they are signing, keeping, giving away, selling, or buying when they agree to a service.
                     
                     You don't have to be interested in pursuing your rights if people abuse your editing services to include the language in the TOS. Including it in the TOS will keep people from unintentionally abusing the service and may make those intending to abuse the service a bit less likely to do so. It would likely also increase the average hubber's perception of the value of the editing services and likely their desire to get those valuable services applied to their work as well.

                     replyreport
                     1. 86

                        Robinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Sorry! I didn't mean to sound threatened at all—I wasn't.    I simply meant that, right now, we aren't worried about Hubbers moving the content that editors add to their Hubs.

                        replyreport
      2. 70

         makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Robin - your answer does not address the questions posed about copyright.
         
         Specifically it does not address the scope of the consent we gave to HubPages as outlined in the link posted above http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/How- … d_22905496
         
         What this says is
         Simply put (and roughly speaking), HubPages has permission to:
         * Display your content without paying you royalties (instead, you earn from ad revenue on your content)
         * Reproduce, modify, and adapt your content to promote it or do other functions intended by our site (e.g. showing a thumbnail of the first image of one of your Hubs and a summary on one of our Topic Pages, or showcasing one of your Hubs on a landing page encouraging other people to sign up for the community)
         
         I'm fine with the examples quoted. That works in exactly the same way as any other host where we post content - we grant a licence for it to highlighted in some way to PROMOTE the site and the examples given are in effect advertisements or short versions for the home page. That's completely OK by me and I guess every other hubber who thought that was what they had agreed to.
         
         However what HubPro does is an awful lot more than that - and I'm guessing this is what Kylyssa will be addressing
         
         Some Editors are making wholesale changes and importing content which is wrong for the topic and writing NEW content 'out of their own heads' and presumably based on reading somebody else's site (not identified).
         
         The thing is this is very clearly a breach of copyright. It goes way beyond professional editing (which I do know about) and in no way is covered by the consents we gave when we signed up to the site.
         
         This is why I've always been opted out of HubPro.
         
         It's why it's a completely redundant exercise to edit some hubs as authors who value their work and their copyright will undo all the changes and remove the content from HubPages - simply because copyright infringements are important to some authors.
         
         I think HubPages really needs to seek legal advice about what it is doing - and I'm very sure it hasn't to date.
         
         I certainly know of legal cases where people have earned income from content which they have changed and had to pay all of that income back to the author of the original content - BECAUSE they breached the original agreement and/or infringed copyright and consents given.

         replyreport
         1. 89

            Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I love how you always read what I've written and interpret it based on the meanings of the words rather than on what you think about me!
            
            The contracts one signs when agreeing to have work edited by a print or online publication are long, extremely descriptive, and leave almost no questions unanswered. If such a contract leaves a question unanswered, the contract is generally rewritten to cover the new question before the parties involved sign it.
            
            It will be an interesting thing to write about. I've even begun a spin-off article on the subject. I can hardly wait for the HubPro process to finish so I can finish the article and write the hub.

            replyreport
            1. 70

               makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Not quite sure how to take what you said there - but I think it was a compliment!
               
               I totally agree - the nature of contracts is nothing is left in doubt. If there is a source of confusion then the terms have to be amended with both parties consenting.

               replyreport
               1. 89

                  Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  It's definitely a compliment. I know I communicate oddly so it's a rare thing to find someone who reads my words with an eye to what the words mean rather than to what they think I mean. All too often, people seem to respond to what they feel I've said rather than to what I've actually said and it drives me bonkers.

                  replyreport
   2. 84

      tsmogposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Trying to learn doesn't each Hubber have the option to opt out of the HubPro program? And, too, don't they have the option to reject the recommended changes? Isn't the HubPro editor serving the function of a copy editor typical with most publishers?
      
      I ask since it is an optional program I may decide at this time to opt out and avoid the complications you seem to be raising.

      replyreport
      1. 89

         Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, every hubber can opt out of HubPro Premium but none can opt out of HubPro Basic.
         
         Yes, changes can later be rejected by the hub's author if the service is the voluntary one, HubPro Premium. Some changes made by HubPro Basic cannot be rejected.
         
         Yes, the HubPro service is serving as a copy editor but the approach isn't typical. No contract is created for the specific work and the rights are not delineated clearly as they are when working with typical publications. Substantial content written by editors can be added without a review of who owns what rights post-editing. The communication is also different from what you'd be used to.
         
         I'd suggest giving the program a try if you aren't bothered by a little legal ambiguity.

         replyreport
2. 69

   stephenteacherposted 8 years ago

   Putting an article on hub is giving them the right to do whatever they want with it....on hub pages.
   
   That does not mean they own the copyrights to your original article.
   
   Virtually any site, newspaper, magazine, publisher, etc. has the same rights to user submitted content.

   replyreport
   1. 70

      makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Giving Hubpages HQ and staff the right to do whatever they want to do with it on HubPages is not stated anywhere in the terms and conditions I signed up to.
      
      The one I signed said that they could represent articles for marketing purposes (eg extract or summarise) - in the same way Flickr can use your photos of Facebook can promote your content. Normal stuff - totally fine.
      
      Nobody said explicitly "we can rewrite your content and affect your reputation"
      
      In order to edit my words you have to sign a contract with me which says very precisely what you can and cannot do with my content and pay me a fee on delivery (as people do!). Would you like to see one?
      
      But taking your point to its logical extension - can you imagine what would happen if the people who ran Facebook started changing people's posts - because it made them look or read better?

      replyreport
3. 69

   stephenteacherposted 8 years ago

   I'm sure somewhere in the agreement you agreed to,
   is wording that they can modify your work however
   they please for use on hubpages.
   
   "You grant HubPages a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable license to reproduce, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute, modify, adapt and publish the Author Content on or in connection with the Service."
   
   Modify and adapt is pretty broad.
   
   When granting hubpages that license above, you undoubtedly include
   something called a  "derivative work." Another author can then transform
   it into whatever they please.
   
   You also agreed to comply with all new and revised terms.
   
   If they add any new or revised general terms, you already agreed to them.

   replyreport
   1. 89

      Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I am aware that I agreed to their terms; I'm just trying to find out what they are so I can write about them.
      
      I saw nothing in the TOS that said what I could or could not do with my content after it's been altered by one of the editing services. Copyright isn't just what the site owners can do with the intellectual property, it also involves what the creator of that material can do with her intellectual property after services have been applied to it. Creators give up certain rights to their content when agreeing to contracts and only a few of those rights are explicitly stated in the HP TOS.
      
      For instance, I know I actually give exclusive online rights to HubPages by utilizing the HubPages service because duplicate content is not allowed even thought the TOS says that they are given perpetual, non-exclusive rights.

      replyreport
   2. 70

      makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The terms and conditions of HubPages and the text about changes has a context and relates the purpose to summaries and use of content in relation to promotion. This is pretty standard across all social media and relates to granting a licence to display and promote content.....
      
      ....and yet you won't find Facebook changing user content for a reason.
      
      ....Just as YouTube can tell you quite a few stories about what happens in legal terms when somebody takes original content and changes it.
      
      The reason why copyright always remains with the original author is because there is no copyright for derivative works - especially those which infringe copyright.
      
      A better question to ask is whether, when HubPages changes user content, they undermine author copyright in relation to legal disputes with people who copy.
      
      I've asked whether HubPages sought legal advice before they started changing user content. To date I don't think any of us have had an answer.

      replyreport
4. 69

   stephenteacherposted 8 years ago

   You granted them a license to modify and adapt your copyrighted content to use on hub, under your account. They modify and adapt only what you publish on hub. Anything you delete, is gone, including their modifications. They don't save it to publish elsewhere or keep it up. Anything you publish is open to their modifications, on hub, as long as you have it here on hub.

   replyreport
   1. 70

      makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You've just neatly spelt out why my content is on the move.
      
      Authors like to retain control over their content.

      replyreport