Mike Pence on Presidential Morals and Values

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   hard sunposted 6 years ago

   http://web.archive.org/web/199908210834 … nton2.html
   
   Excerpt:
   
   "On the second count, that the President is 'just like the rest of us', he is the most powerful man in the world. If you and I fall into bad moral habits, we can harm our families, our employers and our friends. The President of the United States can incinerate the planet. Seriously, the very idea that we ought to have at or less than the same moral demands placed on the Chief Executive that we place on our next door neighbor is ludicrous and dangerous. Throughout our history, we have seen the presidency as the repository of all of our highest hopes and ideals and values. To demand less is to do an injustice to the blood that bought our freedoms."
   
   
   Do any Trump supporters agree with the now Vice President's assessment? If so, do you think this applies to Trump? Shouldn't "conservatives" be um, conservative?

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      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      "Seriously, the very idea that we ought to have at or less than the same moral demands placed on the Chief Executive that we place on our next door neighbor is ludicrous and dangerous. "
      
      All you have to do to accomplish that goal is change the current requirement that the only people that can ever be elected are those that have made a lifetime of accumulating power and wealth by stepping on and hurting anyone around them. 
      
      Accomplish that simple ( ) task and we could elect a person of ethics that cares about others.

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         hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         So, every other politician is just as unethical as Trump, but they hide it better. I never heard Presidents say things and behave the way Trump does. Name calling, etc. This is not simply about who a person may have stepped on in order to get to the top or who they have screwed. It goes way beyond that into what type of people we want to be. Name calling bullies who say things like I could shoot someone in the middle of Times Square...etc.
         
         While I understand your explanation, it doesn't compute for many Americans who understand this type of behavior is not good for our children and makes us the laughing stock of the world. Thus you have all the outrage.
         
         America is better than this, and my guess is that it will show in the voting booth unless Trump puts the fix in. He said it was fixed after all. He sewed the discord so how can anyone believe he won fairly? He told us it was fixed. That's not good for democracy.
         
         While Charles Barkley was correct when he said he's not a role model, Presidents are role models, and their behavior will trickle down, even if their economic policies don't. Mike Pence understands this.

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            wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Personally I'll wait for results.  I'm far more interested in what the country does in the next few years than in how he talks. 
            
            Pity people are more interested in being statesmanlike and PC than in results.  They are the ones sowing discord, every bit as much as the President is.  More as there are millions expressing hatred and violence (and lies as in saying Trump stated the election was fixed) and he is only one man.

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               hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Trump stated over and over that the elections are rigged "It's all rigged folks." I heard it myself. Even most of his fellow Republicans likely understand they are doing our nation a great disservice. They're just scared to speak against him because they'll lose like 30-40% of the Republican vote straight out the gate.
               
               People are interested in having a respectable nation. And, I guarantee that tearing our country apart with name calling and deliberate divisiveness is not going to help our nation in the long run. Why do people expect Americans to cower to Trump's attacks? He is the only one allowed to spread hate, and then everyone else is supposed to just shut up and take it? You're seeing the results of Trump's rhetoric in this hatred and violence you speak of. Much of it from his side, see threats against journalists, etc, etc. And some from his opponents. After all,  you can't fight fire with smiles.
               
               I cannot count the times I heard people who are now Trump supporters state that we need a President who will bring people together when Obama was in office. So, they voted the one person who they knew would cause the most discord into office. They wanted discord...it just needed to be sewn by a guy they liked.                                                            
               
               "He is only one man."
               
               He is supposed to be the leader of the free world. I'd say that's one very important man.

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                  ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  How do explain the massive amount of violence of your party ---before you could blame it on Trump ? What ? All of this Antifa , BLM ,  are all birthed of Trumps saying "it's all fixed "? Let's go back a few years ago -guess what , under Obama , Bush , Clinton , the same activists , the same signs ,the same violence .
                  
                  Pretty lame excuse if you ask me .

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                     hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     The rhetoric is clearly ratcheting up America's division. I'm not a big fan of some of the far left organizations either. You ARE a big fan of Trump.
                     
                     But, let's discuss how Trump is bringing the country together again as so many Republicans stated they wanted. This is about more than protests, which America always will and always should have. It's about who we are as a nation. Calling newscasters, sports stars, businessmen, actors, etc. etc. names almost every day on  Twitter. "Lock her up" that's third world chants there.
                     
                     Come on, there is absolutely no comparison when it comes to Presidents'making deliberate attempts to divide our nation. And it started from the beginning of his campaign. The press is the "enemy of the people." However, Putin, give the guy a chance. The press are part of the American people. Sad, disgusting behavior that is not conservative and will have long-term negative consequences. SMH.
                     
                     I win, you lose. You know I'm right...that's how we push our "individual thought" onto others...right? You know I'm right.

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                  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  "And, I guarantee that tearing our country apart with name calling and deliberate divisiveness is not going to help our nation in the long run."
                  
                  Out of curiosity, how many of those calling Trump names have you called on it?

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                     hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     I never cowered to bullies. Do you? If he ever stopped with the insane dialogue and Twitter rants, just maybe he would stop getting the name calling in return. He is the leader. It starts with him...period. No other President behaved this way. And his supporters wear T-shirts like 'Screw your feelings." Now they, and he, have feelings? Or we are supposed to run scared from our own President?
                     
                     Americans are supposed to be called names and just say, OK then, he's the President? Is that the country you want? Screw all that.

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                        wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        Teddy Roosevelt once knocked a man senseless in a bar fight.  Abraham Lincoln, while on the campaign trail, picked up a man by the scruff of his neck and threw him 10' away.  Andrew Jackson killed a man in a duel, knocked another cold with a bucket when he began to give orders in a fire fighting bucket brigade and beat a third senseless with his cane in another bar fight.  Hillary was well known for mistreating the secret service guards protecting her life with foul language and complete disrespect.
                        
                        And Trump returns insult for insult.  Tsk tsk.

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                           hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                           No, Trump is a misbehaving, silver-spooned schoolchild who throws temper tantrums and dodges the draft with bone spurs. He then instigates fights and cries when its thrown back at him. Tsk tsk..big difference.
                           
                           Trump couldn't whip his way out of a wet paper bag. So I'm not sure where you're going with bar fight comparisons. Wow.

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                              wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                              "So I'm not sure where you're going with bar fight comparisons. "
                              
                              "No other President behaved this way."
                              
                              It's true that Trump has not descended to anywhere near what past presidents have, but I assumed you would recognize that our presidents have not all been angels, behaving with royal aplomb and decor as you insinuated.
                              
                              I'd have to question that "instigates fights" as well - nearly everything I've seen is in response to insulting language or actions.

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                                 hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                 Definitely agree that not all other Presidents were shining stars of morality. However, I do think Trump instigates and escalates division to fire up his base. Where others mostly kept political arguments to politics, he talks about "Pocahontas" and "small hands" when people simply disagree with his political views. It's simply not called for and not good for a nation that needs a leader that can help bring it together.

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                                    wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                    Not that I disagree that he should keep his mouth shut most of the time, but I still don't see him instigating much.  Escalating it absolutely - he doesn't seem able to let the smallest slight go by unchallenged - but not instigating.

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               promisemposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               The end doesn't justify the means. Character matters as much as competence and policies. That's leadership.

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                  hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  That pretty much sums it up. Even if you are a great leader, a man with horrible character will only lead people to bad places.

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                     promisemposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     I agree. I've met a few bad leaders in my lifetime. They may get good results in the short term, but they eventually cause a lot of damage.

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                        hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        For sure. I had a few bosses like this. I don't think anyone really wants to work for the guy...and he's the President, lol.

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   Live to Learnposted 6 years ago

   Trump is hard on the eyes, has been caught in a lie, displays characteristics I define as 'new money' gauche. I didn't support his candidacy and was shocked when he took the nomination. But I understand why he did. I understand why he beat Hillary.
   
   Only someone willing to get into the deepest mud of politics could stand a chance and the left, along with the right, have ensured the man has had to stay there. For any time the guy has miss stepped there are ten where his words appear to be purposely taken out of context in order to create strife.
   
   I have little patience for politicians who talk about 'statesmanship' but don't embody it. Biden comes off as a used car salesman, at best. Hillary came off as an entitled minority throwing a tantrum in hopes it would cause us to acquiesce and give her the toy she wanted.
   
   Trump is the by product of our dysfunctional political system. The outcome of our self imposed divide. As much as I liked Obama, on a personal level, many things done by him were too far. Too tone deaf to middle America. And too blind to the fact that we,as a nation, were suffering. He may not have created the divide but he ensured a chasm appeared between the sides.
   
   Obama carried himself like a statesman. Our current climate is his legacy.

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      hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      "Trump is the by product of our dysfunctional political system."
      
      I agree with this. He is also a product of people like Alex Jones, the real fake news, right-wing astroturfing that fed the fears, and the MSM's biases...although they are not the fake news or the enemy of the people.
      
      And, Trump is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Some Trump voters even said they want to blow up the system. There will always be problems with every government known to humans and always will be. However, that doesn't mean you elect a man-baby as President. Especially If the election wasn't rigged, as Trump said it was, maybe many America deserve to be the laughing stock.

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         Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         The alternative was Hillary. I don't think we,as a nation, got stuck with the poorer choice.

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            wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            +1.  There is little doubt of that - we got the best of the available choices.

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      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Could it be that America doesn't want Kings, Queens and other royalty putting on a great show?

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         Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Sounds about right. With the advent of the internet, dirty laundry doesn't hide long and it is now too easy to ferret out the double standards politicians have historically lived by. They aren'tkings and queens. They are actors.

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         hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         So behaving with some type of dignity now means you are a king or a queen? High standard for our country.

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            wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            "Some kind of dignity"?  You mean "comporting ones self in a statesmanlike, royal, manner as I think they should", don't you?
            
            And yes, it's a standard that we don't want.  Don't cry when we don't get it, then.  Personally, although I do wish he shut up most of the time, I find his willingness to call a spade a spade refreshing.  I'm tired of weasel language that says nothing while appearing profound.

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               hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               There's a difference between bluntness and going out of your way to be rude. Not being rude must mean being stately or royal?  I don't think so. However, just as the military has its stately traditions, I think there are reasons for political traditions, and those reasons should be clear. I thought these were conservative values?
               
               These are very basic values that America used to agree upon. I do agree that some honesty from politicians is refreshing. However, simple language is not synonymous with being blunt, telling, or honest. Most often, it oversimplifies a complex issue in order to sell it to the masses.
               
               So, I don't associate straightforward language with truthfulness when it comes to politics.  It makes things seem as they are either one way or the other with no middle ground. This is more palatable for the masses but not practical for governing. Unfortunately, people don't want to listen to long-winded politicians talk about the intricacies of policy. So, we get debates that end up being about whose hands are larger.

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                  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Sun, it's like what I said before.  If being a statesman, being on stage all the time, if speaking in a smooth conciliatory manner - if these things are more important to you that running our country then we will remain on opposite sides of the fence.
                  
                  We've had the pretty speaking presidents and legislators.  And almost to a person they have cared more about themselves and their pocketbooks than they do the country.  I'm tired of such nonsense, I want someone that will do the hard tasks, the unpopular tasks, and get them done.  If the only person that will do that is rough talking and obnoxious when attacked, so be it.  I want results far more than I want yet another smooth talker that offends no one.  I voted Trump last time solely because of the quality of the opposition, but will do so again regardless of the competition if he can make some real improvements in our largest problem areas.
                  
                  Now, you can go on for days about how the rest of the world (gross exaggeration) is laughing at us.  I don't care.  I don't care if they laugh or not - our country has some quite severe problems that are not being addressed, and haven't been for decades, because someone might take offense or some two bit legislator might not get re-elected.  Let them laugh as we straighten out our problems - problems that they have, too, in some cases and refuse to address for the same reasons we haven't.  He who laughs last...

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                     hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     We will see. In the meantime, America is a divided nation that Trump is trying to further divide. We will see the strength of our people and our Constitution by the time this is over.

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                        Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        I don't perceive Trump as attempting to divide our nation. I see some policies and/or programs which were unacceptable to a large portion of the population being reversed, scaled back, or abandoned.
                        
                        I don't believe in one-sided decisions. I prefer compromise. But compromise was circumvented during the Obama era. We are experiencing the backlash now. The primary difference was conservative leaning citizens moaned and groaned when things were not as they liked. They didn't take to the streets in KKK or ISIS style outerwear and create havoc. They didn't show up in a mob and accost those they disagreed with politically. These are the things dividing us.

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                           hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                           "I don't perceive Trump as attempting to divide our nation."
                           
                           The divisive statements either have some purpose or Trump just has absolutely not self control. Either way, they are dividing the nation and go WAY beyond what other Presidents have ever said. You can look up such statements as easy as I can. He relies on making divisive Tweets to keep his base fired up in the hopes of winning elections for his people. Ohio is showing that may not work out so well. Many people said Obama was divisive. They wanted a divisive President, they just wanted him to be one that looked like them and spoke their language. I think Trump will be a stain on US history books in the end. Of course that is just my opinion.

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                              Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                              I do agree that Trump will be seen as a stain, on some levels. I have to disagree on Obama. He was divisive, also.
                              
                              I think people have knee jerk reactions to those who don't have knee jerk reactions to Trump's statements. And, the same held true with Obama. Sometimes we may not like the way something is said but if we stop and think, we can see reason in the statement, on some level.
                              
                              I will say that with Trump, there seems to be no interest in seeing from the left.

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                                 hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                 I'm not stating Obama was not divisive at all. I'm simply saying that, in my mind, Trump is much more so. When the President operates on knee jerk reactions, or at lease seems to, it doesn't help.

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                                    Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                    We can certainly agree on your last statement.

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   ahorsebackposted 6 years ago

   Funny thing with liberals , Maybe it's in the name , Now we take liberties with the morals of Trump , Yet under Bill Clinton literally in the White House getting oral sex ----"Weeeeell ..................that's just not quite the same you know ",
   
   Using the power of his offices and personnel to  procure sexual partners ,deliver them up ,  rape , sexually assault , threaten , And then cover them all up ? WHILE USING THE POWER OF HIS POSITION  and then lying not only to US.congress BUT the American public ?
   
   And you guys over there on the left think Trump makes us all just what , Look Bad ?
   
   Jeees ,You wonder why I don't Democratic !

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      hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I thought Clinton's fellatio incident made us look bad, but it pales in comparison to Trump's daily behavior...Then we have the grab em by the vagina, call em Pocahontas, fornicate with them while married and pay em off.
      
      The but Clinton doesn't work with someone who thinks his action was beneath the desk of the Oval Office---literally and figuratively.

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         ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Yea right and you didn't jump right up to Bills defence like everyone else did , But now that Trump guy , he's different .........why exactly ?   
         
         Yes , the "But Clinton " thing works perfectly ,  it show the two .........or actually more faces of liberal hypocrisy  to the rest of the world anyway.     While the" blue  dress " and actual DNA led to an impeachment ,  On the Trump side everybody including his wife seems accepting  of that which we all knew from the start .
         
         Sorry no shock factor mileage over here ..

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            hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            No, I didn't even vote for Bill. And, like I said, Trump is going after Americans...calling them the "enemy of the people" etc, etc. This isn't just about sexual relations. Trump is way beyond all that in many different ways. Sad and disgusting--
            
            " On the Trump side everybody including his wife seems accepting  of that which we all knew from the start ."
            
            Say what? So you're saying you know Trumps a sleazebag and it doesn't matter. But Bill was a sleazebag and it did matter? Trump is so dreamy, he's like a god.

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               ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Trump's saying the Fake News media is the enemy and they --In that condition-- are the enemy .    You're still a hypocrite when it took the republican house  to impeach   Bill Clinton for far worse an infraction than what ?  A nasty Trump image ?
               Give us your address we'll send blankets .

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                  hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Call me a hypocrite, lol. You're not even making sense. I don't approve of fellatio in the oval office any more than I do Trump's stiffing contractor's, paying off hookers, grabbing vaginas, walking in locker rooms, throwing his own kid under the bus for conspiracy with Russians, etc. Then there's the weird thing with his daughter "hen asked what he and his daughter:
                  
                  both consider their favorite things, Trump answered, “I was going to say sex, but I can relate to [golf and real estate]."
                  Read more: https://forward.com/schmooze/357185/7-c … ut-ivanka/
                  
                  "I’ve said that if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her.”
                  "“Yeah, she’s really something, and what a beauty, that one. If I weren’t happily married and, ya know, her father . . . ” https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p … guy-41447/
                  
                  This guy is an all around freaking creep kinda like "Uncle Ted' another hero of the far out right wing nut jobs  ---"“I was addicted to girls. It was hopeless. It was beautiful,” Nugent said at the time. “I got the stamp of approval of their parents… I guess they figured better Ted Nugent than some drug-infested punk in high school.”?
                  
                  I'm not sure I even wanna read what Trump does when it all actually comes out.
                  
                  Where's Dan Quayle when you need him?

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   ahorsebackposted 6 years ago

   The politics of people who simply hate orange hair is far too difficult to explain ,    Freud wrote volumes on this stuff , perhaps it's time for hypnosis for Trump resistance , we may save them yet ?

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      hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Freud may have something to say about naming yourself ahorseback also, but, you know, we can keep this up all day. Slug bug.

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