FDA censorship

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   aguasilverposted 13 years ago

   I got a hub suspended today for the following reason:
   
   Team HubPages ✆ to me
   05:50 (13 hours ago)
   
   Hi John,
   
   Your Hub contains a Colloidal Silver capsule, which is considered dubious. 
   
   Please remove this product and resubmit for review.
   
   The 'Colloidal Silver capsule' in question was an Amazon link ad, for a Colloidal Silver Generator.
   
   This is censorship, based upon the following:
   
   * Promotion of medical treatments that the FDA or FTC have found to be fraudulent
   
   Now first off this means that if the FDA decide they don't like something, they can (now) move one step further towards getting all and any information suppressed about it.
   
   I have extensive information and experience both personally and with many folk I have treated using Colloidal Silver, and KNOW that the FDA are just defending the MEGA trillion dollar profits of BigPharma.
   
   But censorship is wrong.
   
   Anybody got any comments or suggestions

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   Website Examinerposted 13 years ago

   I can see your point. You are a guest on HubPages, and their refusal to host your link has nothing to do with censorship. If you use your own website to host your links, you can convert your hub into an opinion and information piece. You can try to link to your website, see if HubPages will tolerate that.

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      aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I do not publish for profit, so it makes no difference to me whether I have ads or not, and I would have no problem with them disabling ads on a hub they found to be against advertiser policies, indeed they disabled ads on a hub I did on abortion, and I care not one jot.
      
      What I do care about is having the FDA hold the decision on what can be published and what cannot.
      
      The FDA are an organisation founded on Rockerfeller money to stifle natural medicine and ensure that ALL medication is ONLY available from BigPharma drug cartels.
      
      They approve drugs that make big profits, but kill people.
      
      Prescription drugs are the second major killer of Americans as we talk, yet nobody has shown natural drugs to have deadly consequences.
      
      It's the fact that censorship is allowed, OK I know HubPages are a commercial entity and need to protect themselves from attack or profit loss, that's understood, and I agree that by and large they do well by we Hubbers and give us a platform to write upon.
      
      I have no problem with the HubTeam, they are helpful and open, but censorship is censorship, and once we allow it to be controlled by vested interests, we have already given over the ground to express free speech.
      
      What will some government body decide is taboo next?
      
      In theory, after Codex Alimentarius was passed, you cannot speak of the benefits of organic food, or the healing powers of vegetables.
      
      For now they are not starting to suppress information about eating organic or using herbs, fruit and vegetables to cure cancer, but if we stand by and let then tell us what is fit to publish, and what we may not mention, it will not be long before the ONLY hubs that are safe to write will be for Rolex watches and the latest coffee machine.

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   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   If a drug is not FDA approved then a person who takes it can sue you, Amazon and then HubPages.  If you want to make medicinal claims about a potential toxic product, I would suggest that you do so on your own website.

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      aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I did, and the health Gestapo pounced and forced me to close it down, the alternative being years arguing it in court, designed to bankrupt the defendant.
      
      Colloidal Silver is NON TOXIC, you have it wrong, the toxic substances are mainly FDA approved drugs, that kill you.
      
      Check this out to see the truth.
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnaBG177VIw

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         thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         When you say teh drugs that kill you, I assume you are also talking about the drugs that cure people.
         
         You do realise that most drugs are infact made from the components of natural medicines that help heal you?

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            aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The only proven effective drug is an antibiotic (BigPharma earn trillions each year on them)which in any case is now being diminished by misuse, over prescription and drug resistant virus's.
            
            Chemotherapy kills more people than it 'cures'.
            
            Yes of course I realise that BigPharma base all their 'successful' drugs on natural medicines, BigPharma spend fortunes each year taking natural substances and developing chemical signatures for them, which can be patented and sold for vastly more money than non patented natural medicines can.
            
            I have been studying holistic health for 15 years.
            
            You do realise that under Codex Alimentarius, that the largest dose of Vitamin C you will be allowed to buy in future would be a 25mg capsule?
            
            Now you can buy 1000mg or 1500mg time release, to be effective you need about 3000mg per day, so that would mean (under the new laws) taking 120 capsules each day... wonder why they set the dose that low?
            
            You do realise that Aloe Vera has been declared a prohibited substance, you (Americans) can be arrested for growing or selling or recommending it's use.
            
            You do realise that virtually ALL Chinese herbal medicine is now illegal?
            
            Shall I go on? - no better to write a hub and publish it before the THOUGHT POLICE move the control factor up another notch or two whilst the public slumber.
            
            BTW I do have sites that publish contentious health 'illegal information', but nowadays you need to be careful about where you host them, and mask the trail well...

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   wildernessposted 13 years ago

   Of course it is censorship.  Consider: you allow company X to place a billboard on your farm land fronting a major freeway.  They put up a huge pornographic photo.  Will you not do anything possible to get it taken down, with your success limited only by how well you wrote the contract allowing the billboard?  After, you are in the line of fire for lawsuits over the photo and will censor any billboard that could cost you your farm.
   
   HP wrote the "contract" you write hubs under well; they can take down any of your "billboards" they want to.  Anything that they feel will negatively affect their P&L is subject to removal.  Overall, they do a good job of allowing most material, but there are very definitely things they will not permit.

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   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   Hubpages is not the government, it is a private site that looks after its own interests.
   
   If you want to make illegal claims then I think you should do so entirely at your own risk.

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      aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Putting an Amazon advert for a colloidal silver generator is hardly making illegal claims.... has the world gone mad!
      
      HubPages suspended it for an Amazon ad product!
      
      I take full responsibility for any claims I make, because all and any advice I give is based upon personal experimentation, use and solid backup of facts.
      
      The simple matter is that the FDA wish to silence any dissent, they are in the pay of BigPharma and as BigPharma also control the media, they can do as they like.
      
      Check the facts.

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         wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         A quick scan of articles on colloidal silver show ONLY sites concerning the use of the product for health reasons.  There does not appear to be any other uses for the product.  A generator that makes a product solely for the health market would seem to imply certain claims about the final product (colloidal silver) be made.
         
         EVERY article I saw basically said that it is dangerous and of no benefit.  Are there no competent studies (to include large numbers of volunteers and blind studies) that show it to be effective and safe?  Does your own personal experimentation and solid facts include this and has it been published for others to take a look at?
         
         Doesn't look to me like the world has gone mad.

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            aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            CS is a natural substance, indeed it was the natural antibiotic of choice BEFORE they patented penicillin in 1938.
            
            Until CS became popular again, it was covered by the 'grandfather' clause that allowed for pre-existing (pre the FDA) medicines to be exempt from control.
            
            Once it came back into use wide scale, the FDA changed the rules and declared that CS was a new product (partly true, the manufacturing of it had improved and the quality is now secure and of better efficacy)
            
            Because it has no 3000% patented profitability in it, Big Pharma cannot make money, so they will not conduct trials, neither will the average CS maker, for we only make small quantities and despite a high profit margin (about 1/3 of what Big Pharma would make) there is seldom enough actual profit to make full blown FDA approved drug testing possible or worthwhile (they would probably obstruct licencing anyway).
            
            What has happened since they started this crackdown, is that we now sell CS as 'Not for internal use' which evades the law, you never sell product from a site which tells people what it can do for them, and in most cases makers only supply friends and friends of friends.
            
            Like all other censorship, bad laws drive people underground, and you get prohibition.
            
            If you have not read any good things, take a look at the following site:
            
            http://testimonials.silvermedicine.org/
            
            John

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               wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Part of the reason that Big Pharma makes such profits is to pay for the research and testing done. 
               
               If there were truly 1000% profit in CS as you indicate they would be interested in doing those trials.  As they are not interested I can only conclude that they expect trials to fail; that the product will not perform as "advertised". 
               
               Sounds to me like a good reason to keep it off the shelves for health use regardless of however many testimonials from people using individual personal experiences there are.  As you are no doubt well aware you can find testimonials that everything from rhino horns (for fever and gout) to shark fins (for heart disease) will have great health benefits.

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                  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  The CS costs about 30 cents per litre to make, and generally sells at about $24 per litre, add into this (or subtract as you please) the4 cost of the bottle (normally about $1,50 with cap, it needs to be an 'amber glass' bottle with a security cap) and labelling/bottling costs and you are around $3 per bottle to produce, on the shelf.
                  
                  I sold mine for 50% of the retail price, i.e. about $12 per bottle, but would sell to health shops who normally bought about $400 worth at a time, and sold it for twice what I sold it for.
                  
                  It never made me any real profit, but I made about $1200 per month from it, I also saw many amazing recoveries in the 8 years I was selling it.
                  
                  You are a chemist, so I understand why you take the stance you do, but there is a conspiracy between BigPharma and the FDA to keep the profits flowing.
                  
                  If you watch the video 'The Cancer Report' you will see what I mean, especially as it's mainly quotes from Doctors and former FDA/Chemical industry officials.
                  
                  1000% is of no interest for BigPharma, when they make 3000% on their normal products, and the big research spend is in discovering how to patent natural medicine to make profit.
                  
                  The whole drug industry is just too profitable to allow competition from something that folk can make for next to nothing in their own kitchens.

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                     Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     "Render unto Caesar," means nothing to you then?

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                        aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Of course it does, it means what it says, give Caesar what he is entitled to.
                        
                        I live in Malaysia, where as a 'denizen' I am only liable to pay 'Caesar' on Malaysian income.
                        
                        I earn nothing in Malaysia.
                        
                        My income is from the Philippines, Indonesia, Spain and America, none of which I am resident in, and am therefore not tax liable.
                        
                        Where a company that I earn income from is tax liable, the taxes are paid locally.
                        
                        My nationality is British, but I have been non resident for 26 years and have no income from that country.
                        
                        Unlike America, the UK has no worldwide taxation laws.
                        
                        I do not apologise for arranging my life to be tax effective, it is my right to legally do so.
                        
                        I have however made provision to assist others with support.
                        
                        I just know who is getting my dollars and that it is not being spent on waging wars or keeping fat cat financial elitists in luxury whilst they rob the people blind.
                        
                        Sorry, we seem to have drifted off topic!
                        
                        What made you ask?

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                           Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Trying to escape Caesar?

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                              aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Succeeding... legally!
                              
                              Christ never commanded us to pay Caesar more than he was due, anyway, the problem would be trying to escape God.
                              
                              Caesar will bankrupt you if you get it wrong, God views it differently if you try to escape Him, but let's not take this even further off subject!

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                                 Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 And yet you are bitching that He caught you?

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                                    aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Sorry, you make no sense, who 'caught' me, nobody has 'caught' me, I chose to obey God before man, that's my choice, and it was a good one.

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                                 psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Caesar decides what Caesar is due.

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                                    aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Agreed, like I said Caesar will bankrupt you if you get it wrong, but we all have the choice of being stuck in the system, at Ceaesars behest, or liberated by the liberty of Christ.
                                    
                                    I chose the Kingdom of God over the kingdom of the world, and it worked out fine, OK no pension plans here in The Kingdom, but then as God provides for me, I don't need what the world offers.
                                    
                                    I am a free man, not a slave to the world system, but a man under authority in the Kingdom of God, temporarily resident on planet earth.... it's a good life!

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                     wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I'm sorry, QS, we are on opposite sides of the fence here.  While I'm all for limited government interference in our lives I don't want a bunch of snake oil salesmen pushing "Granny's Great Goiter Remover", consisting of arsenic, lead and cocaine, on unsuspecting people desperate to try anything to alleviate their suffering.
                     
                     There is indeed a need for profits; it gives us such things as penicillin and interferon instead of being limited to untested concoctions whose primary result is to pad salesmens pockets.  Testing a new drug does not consist of giving it to a few people and declaring that it works - it is the result of years of careful, quality controlled, use in a large variety of cases.  It costs a very large amount of money to do, and companies that do it deserve to make a profit.
                     
                     Nor do I believe for a moment that there is a reputable drug company anywhere that makes a 3000% net profit on any drug.  Or 1000% or 100% or 50%.  These kind of profit margins are reserved for the snake oil salesmen that push products without any idea of what they will actually do to the human body.

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                        Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-ha … 51365.html
                        http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archive … companies/
                        http://www.citizen.org/documents/fortun … erport.PDF
                        
                        LOLOLOL

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                           aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Thank you.... good links that show the truth!

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                           wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Only skimming the links, not thoroughly digesting them, it seems that the first two links advocate basically giving the drugs that companies have developed away with no profit.  The articles do not indicate how new drugs should be found, just that nearly free drugs should be available.
                           
                           The third link indicates that drug companies are making around 15 - 20% profit, which is quite high but within the range I had indicated.  It is also the results of taking risks in large R&D spending and could have been negative just as easily.
                           
                           Are these the things you intended to show with the links?

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      wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      He did, and got shut down as he wouldn't fight it in court.  The answer seems to be instead to get someone else (HP) to put their head on the chopping block for him.  Personally I would rather HP didn't do that - I would prefer that they stay in business.

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   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   So you aren't willing to fight this in court, but you want to force HubPages to?  That's.... um... not reasonable.

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      aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Nobody would be suing HubPages for the correct legal display of an Amazon listed product.
      
      I did not want to fight it in a (Spanish) court because I had no cash to allocate to it,and besides, I was about to move from Spain to Asia (more freedom here)
      
      What I opinion on HubPages is clearly MY opinions, and (as we stand) there is no law against writing telling people about natural health, so HubPages have no problem there.
      
      If we (collectively) allow the FDA or whoever to control what is written about, or legally sold, then that will change as they tighten the ratchet on free speech, thought and actions.
      
      Your choice.
      
      As I am non commercial on HubPages, I do not care whether I have links for money, in fact as far as I am concerned all my hubs could be ad free, though I guess that would not work for HubPages too well!
      
      I respect HubPages, but this issue goes beyond profit.

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         aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I am not American, I was born in England, lived in Spain for 25 years, now live in S.E,. Asia and have no congressman to 'represent' me.
         
         I am a denizen of the world.
         
         I do not expect HubPages to fight any battles.
         
         I immediately complied with their request and took the 'offending' Amazon product down.
         
         I conform to the law, where the law is an ass, I reserve the right to make it known to folk.
         
         If you are satisfied with what is happening, good luck to you, I hope it serves you well.

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   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   If you took full responsibility for the claims you make, you would still be making them on your own site.  The fact you closed it means you recognize the risk and wish to pass it to someone else rather than take full responsibility for it by yourself.  It didn't work.

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   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   HP is a U.S.A. based company and must follow U.S.A. Laws. Things that the FDA doesn't approve of are included.
   
   Secondly, HP's market is the U.S. Economy. It isn't about the rest of the world or any censorship or anything else.
   
   It's(HP) business has guidelines and YOU are to write within those guidelines, even if you are not a Citizen of the U.S.

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      aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      In 19 months , but mainly during the last months with the Google nonsense, I have had only two hubs notified from 134, so I think it fair to say that I comply with the TOS of HubPages, indeed one was taken down (and edited and restored) due to 'duplicate content' which was in fact a list of the top ten drugs sold in the USA, which is difficult to rewrite anyway, so I just took it out and left a link for the site that listed them.
      
      The other was this hub, taken down for advertising an Amazon product legally sold in the USA.
      
      Go figure!

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   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   If you want to change the law I would suggest contacting your representative in congress, not trying to get someone to break the law for you (because you don't want to pay for the consequences).  Personally I am fine with the law as it is.

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    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    Hubpages--like the FDA--is a denizen of the United States, thus they would have to battle the FDA to leave that Hub up.  If you do not expect them to do so, their unpublishing of the Hub is nothing to protest.  I like to understand what is going on around me and why, and this does serve me very well.

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       aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       den·i·zen
       noun /ˈdenəzən/ 
       denizens, plural
       
       An inhabitant or occupant of a particular place
       - denizens of field and forest
       
       A foreigner allowed certain rights in the adopted country
       
       HubPages are an American company and must comply with US laws, no argument.
       
       My point is that they asked me to take down a product freely advertised and sold on Amazon, another US company.....

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    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    It is legal to sell it, it is illegal to say it has medicinal properties.

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       aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Police Begin "Guns Drawn" Raids on Organic Food Stores in California
       
       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b27EFldZ17k
       
       This is what you are agreeing to.

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          psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Actually, it isn't.

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             aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             But it's happening, be careful when you reach for that carrot!

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                psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                I am saying that if you want to break the law, for whatever reason, you need to face the consequences--not find some proxy to do it for you.  That is all.

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                   aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   Agreed, but I have not broken any law, Amazon may have, but that's their problem, and I am sure Amazon have lawyers coming out their ears to advise them.
                   
                   If a product is on Amazon, why can't I put it on HubPages?
                   
                   What I am TRYING to tell people is that YOUR freedom to think as you wish is being eroded.

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    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    Listings on HubPages, like products on Amazon, only tend to be looked at if reported.  You can't assume either is legal just because it has not been removed.

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    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    You need to research the law in the United States.  Selling colloidal silver is legal, saying it has medicine benefits is illegal. And the freedom to say colloidal silver is a medicine is one you want, and I am utterly indifferent to.  Fight your own battles, please.

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       aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Which is why you use two sites, actually reporting what people testify about CS is not illegal, telling folk what it does when you sell it on the same site is.
       
       For the record, the Health Gestapo pounced on me NOT for selling CS, but for selling water without added Chlorine (which is illegal in Europe).
       
       Now IF I had added Chlorine (which is a proven carcinogenesis) the CS would have reacted and turned perfectly pure, non toxic CS into Silver Chloride, which is dangerous.
       
       If CS were recognised, BigPharma would lose 3 billion dollars profit per year, that is the problem, but as a consequence the public could have a cheap efficient natural antibiotic and antibacterial that actually got heir immune system to replenish itself.
       
       BTW I am fighting my own battles, and yours as well, for if this sort of stuff is allowed to go unopposed, you will be forced to eat processed food designed to sicken you, in order that BigPharma can then sell you drugs to keep you alive until you run out of immune system, or money to buy their drugs.

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    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    If you were fighting your own battles you would be doing it on your own site.  Not asking an American content site to break and American law while you are a continent away.  And making medicinal claims is, itself, illegal.  You can see the cease and desist letters right up on the FDA website.

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    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    You can legally do so to the extent what you do is legal where you do it.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

    I think you guys got lost on the way to the political forum

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       aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I think you are right!
       
       Maybe we could move it over to there!

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