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Georgia and Alabama farmers going under due to lack of illegals.

  1. Josak profile image61
    Josakposted 5 years ago

    With tougher immigration laws being enacted in Georgia and Alabama those states are seeing a rapid decline in illegal immigrant labor because of this crops are being left unharvested and farmers are starting to abandon their farms, the farmers cannot afford to pay American living wages and without the cheap labor many are making it clear that their business will no longer be profitable and they will cease to operate, many say they already regret their support of anti immigration bills, the economic cost to these states is likely to be very high.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc … ps/240774/
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oc … aw-workers

    1. Druid Dude profile image60
      Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I live in Oregon...we've got extras...we could ship some out to Ga and Al, but they won't be there till next week.

      1. Josak profile image61
        Josakposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Get there and be immediately detained and deported? Apparently they don't want to go there.

    2. habee profile image90
      habeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I don't doubt what you're saying, but when two of my sons-in-law were unemployed, they tried to get jobs on local farms and were unable to do so. BTW, both guys are young, fit, and strong. We have a lot of farmers here in South GA, and I don't know of any who are having trouble finding workers. If you visit our Walmart on any given Sunday, you'll see school buses full of alien farm workers. Whether they're legal or not, I have no idea.

      1. Druid Dude profile image60
        Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Josak is listening to propaganda...a word that has fallen out of use.

        1. Josak profile image61
          Josakposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It's not propaganda, it's cut and dry economic facts backed by hundreds of farmers saying the same thing.

      2. Josak profile image61
        Josakposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I know, as I explained it's not so much that people don't want to work in those jobs but that the farmers cannot pay American minimum wage/living wage and still turn a profit so American workers are actually no good to them.

        1. profile image0
          JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Uh, no. The source material is how farmers need 11,000 workers for the season.

          6300 of the jobs average $8/hr. 3200 of the jobs average $10/hr.

          It's not about how they were paying less than minimum wage to illegals. It's that they can't find enough workers who will accept $8-$10/hr.

          1. Josak profile image61
            Josakposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            From the Atlantic Business article:
            "It goes like this. If you're not going to let illegal immigrants do the jobs they are currently being hired to do, then farmers will have to raise wages to replace them. Since farmers are taking a risk in hiring immigrant workers, you can bet they were getting a significant deal on wage costs relative to "market wages". I put market wages here in quotations, because it's quite possible that the wages required to get workers to do the job are so high that it's no longer profitable for farmers to plant the crops in the first place. The simple labor market supply and demand curves below illustrate exactly what I'm talking about. "

            1. profile image0
              JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The Atlantic article is just a report on another article

              http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2 … s-planned/

              that cites a study by Agriculture Commissioner Gary Black.

              The issue is that the farmers aren't getting enough workers at $8-$10/hour.



              Your claim that " the farmers cannot pay American minimum wage" is unsubstantiated and refuted by your own source.

              1. profile image0
                JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That being said, you will naturally ignore this fact and try to change the focus of the argument.

              2. Josak profile image61
                Josakposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Oh come on, don't be so naive and learn to read between the lines, it's a public survey, how many farmers are going to admit that their business is not profitable if they don't hire illegals when that proves that they were hiring illegals before?

                1. profile image0
                  JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You said the issue was that the farmers couldn't pay minimum wage. The study says they are offering $8-$10/hr. You were wrong.

                  Of course, if your source says the opposite of what you claim, the best course of action is to call the person who points it out something from your bag-o-names.

                  It seems that the real issue is there aren't enough workers in the area, or there aren't enough workers willing to accept $8-$10/hr. Not, however, as you claimed, that the farmers can't pay minimum wage.

                  1. Josak profile image61
                    Josakposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Think about it.

                    These crops are already planted and there are no illegals so obviously the farmers are looking for people to pick them to minimize losses, just because they are looking for non below minimum wage workers to pick the produce that has already been planted and matured does not mean they can afford to do it and still turn a profit does it? They may well be simply minimizing their losses.

                    Can I prove it? No, no more than you can prove it's not the case, but it seems reasonable and it was the opinion of the Atlantic article author also. I do know many of the farmers would be loath to admit they had been hiring illegals.

        2. JSChams profile image60
          JSChamsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Ok then.....so keep rooting for those unions who will insure that minimum wage keeps getting pushed higher.

          American left....THIS IS YOUR FAULT.

          1. Josak profile image61
            Josakposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The minimum wage is painfully low as it is, I am not sure if you can see this image well but it shows that in the cheapest rent state one still has to work for 65 hours at minimum wage to rent a two bedroom apartment/flat at fair market price in many states it is more than 80 hours which means two people working full time could not afford rent let alone feeding their kids etc.

            High minimum wage is not the problem, the issue is that we have a labor source capable of surviving on low wages because the money will be worth much more across the border and those a valuable asset, minimum wage is way too low, as we can see it is nowhere near a living wage.
            http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6900319_f248.jpg

            1. JSChams profile image60
              JSChamsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              OK....

              Why is it our responsibility to provide income to a different nation?

              1. Josak profile image61
                Josakposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Did I say it was? I was just listing one of the many ways illegal labor helps this country. Indeed a recent survey of leading economists showed the vast majority believed illegals were beneficial for the US economy. I am not a leading economist but I agree entirely with the expertise I do have.

                1. JSChams profile image60
                  JSChamsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Now....
                  How much money do the illegals take OUT of this country and what is their cost in terms of food, clothing, health care, etc. that is the bill tax payers have to foot?

                  1. mio cid profile image64
                    mio cidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The illegals are a net positive for the US economy,always have been ,and are now that is the reason why there has never been a massive deportation of illegals, there has always been a sensible solution to their situation, believe me, if the reality was that they are a burden to the us economy as the xenophobes and the bigots claim there would be not a single illegal alien in this country

            2. profile image0
              rickyliceaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I have to agree with JSChams on this one minimum wage basically says that if your labor isn't worth say $8 an hour, then your prohibited from working at all.

              1. undermyhat profile image59
                undermyhatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Statistics bare out that increases in minimum wage increases unemployment especially among minorities and first time workers.  They go back to the 1940s.

    3. Josak profile image61
      Josakposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Estimates conclude that the situation will get even worse as those illegals who stayed are deported all but eliminating the labor source.

      1. Johnkadu123 profile image76
        Johnkadu123posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        This is interesting stuff. Of course some will deny it outright and say that local people cannot still find jobs. The real issue is whether there are sufficient safeguards to ensure that nobody is allowed to pay below the minimum wage. Incidentally the people who are most likely to hate any form of immigration are the ones that resist the implementation of a minimum wage. They also tend to favor policies that help the rich. That is the conundrum that we face in the modern world.

    4. undermyhat profile image59
      undermyhatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I wonder how much more money would be available for these farmers if their present and their future wasn't burdened with EPA insanity and the incredibly high cost of fuel.  It is absurd that a nation with an estimated oil reserve in excess of a trillion barrels, 300 years worth of coal and natural gas and the best nuclear scientists, engineers and industry in the world should pay so much for energy. But isn't that the goal of the environ"mentals" - take us all back to the horse and buggy?

      1. profile image0
        JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It is sad. The figure is actually over 2 trillion barrels of recoverable oil in shale oil alone. At our current rate, I believe that's enough for more than 200 years.

    5. shea duane profile image61
      shea duaneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I have 3 good friends in Georgia who agree with you Josak... they call the laws the 'i hate latinos' laws... they are hurting the economy.

    6. Jed Fisher profile image86
      Jed Fisherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Whatever. Just some Millionaire Farmers griping and complaining. Hundred and fifty years ago they whined they would go under without their slaves. Eighty years ago they said they'd go under without sharecroppers. Then they whined about minimum wage for the past five decades; now they cry about how they need illegals. It's all BS and I know it.

    7. Xenonlit profile image61
      Xenonlitposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Those racists are going under for not wanting to hire black people or their fellow Americans. They want workers who they can abuse and cheat, as they have always done. They can go out of business  for all I care.

      1. rhamson profile image76
        rhamsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Where oh where to look for the next lessfortunate to exploit, where?  Unrestricted capitalism works well for those at the top!

  2. jacharless profile image79
    jacharlessposted 5 years ago

    ...and it begins, the reality of US Economics.
    "Illegal workers" make up 1/3 of the US labor force, from Agriculture, Viticulture to Restaurants, Toothpaste Assembly line workers, Construction, Fashion, you name it.
    Once the "No Illegals" takes effect, fully, the prices on everything are going to double, even triple, because production is going to come to a near stop...

  3. Cagsil profile image61
    Cagsilposted 5 years ago

    Plain and simple, if they cannot afford to pay a minimum wage to American workers, then they shouldn't be in business in the first place.

    1. undermyhat profile image59
      undermyhatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well that works out well because minimum wages has driven people out of business and destroyed jobs - a win/win.

      1. Cagsil profile image61
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It's more about the business model than anything else. So give it a break.

  4. mio cid profile image64
    mio cidposted 5 years ago

    I wrote a hub about it, there is no reason strong enough for illegal aliens to remain in a state that they're persecuted and maligned , there are fifty states and only a handful are governed by the xenophobes racists and bigots, they should all pack up and leave and just as they left their native country move to a state were they won't be harrassed ,which there are plenty.

    1. JSChams profile image60
      JSChamsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Fine.....

      As long as they do so through the proper channels.

    2. profile image0
      JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's awfully nice of you to automatically call anybody who opposes illegal immigration a xenophobe, racist, and/or bigot.

      Question: Does that apply to people in other countries who don't like illegal immigrants and have laws against them, or just to people in the US?

      1. mio cid profile image64
        mio cidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That applies to anybody in any country who is a bigot a xenophobe and a racist. I'm  a US citizen and live in the US so I opine on the situation here.

        1. profile image0
          JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You seem to automatically call anyone who calls for enforcement of immigration laws a bigot/xenophobe/racist. I'm asking if that is what you meant.

          I support enforcing our immigration laws, so am I one of those or all of those?

        2. profile image0
          rickyliceaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Every country in the world seeks to control its border. However since states are artificial constructs and this land was taken "illegally" from the indians, I see your point.

          1. Cagsil profile image61
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            This would be true.
            Artificial constructs? Really?
            Really and who did they take it from?

            1. profile image0
              rickyliceaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              States only exists in our minds. 1855 people in the South thought they were part of the United States, in 1861 they thought they were part of the Confederacy.
              The injuns?
              I guess saber tooth tigers and wooly mammoths.

              1. Cagsil profile image61
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Really? So my State of Massachusetts doesn't have a border line where it ends and another State begins.
                Do you enjoy living in the past?
                roll

                1. profile image0
                  rickyliceaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I meant the nation state.
                  Another example is Panama, they just broke off from Colombia to build the canal.

                  1. Cagsil profile image61
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    *shakes head side to side - facepalm*

                  2. undermyhat profile image59
                    undermyhatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I keep looking for "state" molecules - just can't find them anywhere.  Maybe Cern should look for them next.  The idea that something is a social construct stymies some people.  It is not a negative that something is a social construct.  That idea is an out growth of societal mechanisms as well.  Sociology blows peoples minds.

  5. Mighty Mom profile image89
    Mighty Momposted 5 years ago

    Why aren't these famers being hailed as JOB CREATORS?
    Why aren't they being shown as the models of IN-SOURCING they are?
    They have work that had been peformed by non-citizens. Might just as well have been in India for all the good these farm labor jobs actually did for JOBLESS AMERICAN CITIZENS.
    Now there are JOBS being offered to legal, naturalized AMERICAN citizens.

    Seriously, I'm waiting for one or the other party to pounce and spin this into a PR coup.
    lol

 
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