Founding Fathers = Love of Money/Materialism

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  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

    According to some, the true intent of George Washington, John Adams, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and all those who signed the Constitution of the United States was to establish an evil materialistic empire and intentionally promote benefits only for white Europeans. roll
    If this is true beam me up Scotty,
    Soon as possible.

    However, I would prefer to stay and continue believing that Our Founding Father's honest intent was to establish a democratic republic of united states to promote, for themselves and posterity, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness within boundaries established by The Constitution for the purpose of establishing:
                                          J U S T I C E  FOR  A L L

    Is it pure ignorance to believe the latter?


    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "All" did not include everyone, as slaves were certainly not a part of "all".  It would take generations to change, but change it would.  Our forefathers were not perfect, and neither were the times - basic morality has changed throughout history.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
        Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Excerpt from the Lincoln Douglas debates:

        "Lincoln: '… I say, in the way our fathers originally left the slavery question, the institution was in the course of ultimate extinction, and the public mind rested in the belief that it was in the course of ultimate extinction. I say when this Government was first established it was the policy of its founders to prohibit the spread of slavery into new Territories of the United States where it had not existed.'"
        The Lincoln Douglas Debates, edited by Robert W. Johannsen, page 132.

      2. Jewels profile image82
        Jewelsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Has it changed at all though?  Or perhaps just a smidge.  It will take a huge awakening to eradicate racism and division.  And this division I feel is part of the game of materialism.  It's unconsciously ingrained in the psyche of White America and is in the foundation of the country.  It would take a huge awakening for a mind-shift to take place.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
          Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this


        2. wilderness profile image94
          wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Well, let's see.  There is no more slavery.  We have mixed race schools now.  No one is relegated to the back of the bus, or can be refused housing based on race.   It is illegal to offer job opportunities based on race. 

          Nor is racism "unconsciously ingrained in the psyche of White America" - the large majority of people (all races) find racism to be abhorrent.  Racism was never even the "foundation of the country", but just a fact of life for a small portion of the people that actually kept slaves, and it did not take long for the rest to express discontent with it. 

          This is far more than "just a smidge"; the "huge awakening" has already taken place, on  November 19, 1863, and has grown enormously since that time.

          1. Jewels profile image82
            Jewelsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I beg to differ. but it is rampant in many countries, USA included.  Why is there a need for the Black Lives Matter surge?  And have a look at the native Indians of your country.  That is just a small example.  There is a myriad of documentaries on the problem of racism and separation.  Dig a bit deeper.  The awakening that happened in 1863 was a small one.  Most people are still blissfully in ignorance on many issues and they like it that way.

            1. Live to Learn profile image61
              Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Black Lives Matter appears to have been spurred by video footage of cops out of control who weren't being held accountable. It's been pointed out, repeatedly, that blacks are not the only victims of this problem. But, it plays better to the media. The indigenous population was mistreated. When the country was originally settled. I'm sorry, but that was long in the past.

              Anyone who complains of racism in this day and age is micro defining the term. Laws exist to protect all. As Wilderness said, schools are not segregated. Clubs are not closed to specific ethnic groups. We all live and work side by side. We marry and raise children without a second thought. We go to church together.

              This consistent demand that everyone pretend that racism still exists in this country is an ongoing mystery. Are some individuals racist? Sure they are. But their numbers are limited, their power to hurt the lives of others is miniscule.

            2. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
              Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              You live in Australia. How do you assess US? Documentaries?

              1. Jewels profile image82
                Jewelsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Generally online.  I don't follow mainstream media because of its bias and intention to satisfy consumerism.  There is materialism in action - satisfy people with what they can buy instead of who they are as an individual.

                I am a bit taken aback that posters on this forum are denying racism exists in the USA.  It certainly exists in Australia and it's not just about black and white skin color.

                This is a small example, and sorry if pulling an Oprah video is not to some peoples taste, but it's a very simplistic yet poignant video on racism.   There are many more to see on the topic that are credible.

                Materialism in esoteric circles refers to the understanding that nothing is beyond the material world.  Some circles will cite materialism as the love of material things and money without the understanding of anything of a mystical or godly nature.

                Segregation and Division is a political tactic to engender power over masses of people.  Whether those people are black or white, brown eyed or blue eyed, there is a strong manipulation to segregate and divide.  It keeps people distracted, and it certainly works.  Racism is alive and well all over the world and to deny it is plain ignorance and a lack of lateral understanding of the topic.  Justice for all???????????????  I don't think that's a reality unfortunately.

                1. Live to Learn profile image61
                  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  You note that segregation and division is a political tactic. I agree. That's where the problem lies.  But racism isn't supported by law, it isn't a political tactic that garners enough votes to endanger our current laws or values. Honestly, pondering racism is about as pointless as pondering polio. Some people have it, in some places. It is not a danger within our society.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    Unless the KKK are infiltrating into the police force roll
           … story.html

                  2. Jewels profile image82
                    Jewelsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    Live and Learn, perhaps that is why it is more dangerous.  It's quite subliminal.  It is in the foundation of the psyche whether you are conscious of it or not.  Have you noticed whenever there is a major issue to be voted on, the public are diverted and the congress go at it without the attention of the electorate?  It's intentional and easy to get people emotional about another topic that means nothing.  I don't think it matters whether something is supported by law for there to be division.  Discrimination is against the law but that does not stop people from discriminating.  It's an undercurrent of human behaviour and it is passed down by parents, it is taught.  When you look at how easy it is to manipulate humans, it's disturbing how weak we are to not be able to stand in our integrity.  Racism and discrimination is rampant and people who say they don't do it are lying to themselves.

    2. Live to Learn profile image61
      Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Because of that foundation we have been able to grow, as a society. To become more fair and just and more inclusive of all. As Wilderness pointed out, that was a different time. They were, for their time, moral. Without the freedoms we were guaranteed we could not have changed for the better throughout the years.

    3. wrenchBiscuit profile image69
      wrenchBiscuitposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Perhaps you should have Scotty beam you up now. To answer your question: Absolutely, it is pure unadulterated ignorance. The problem with many Americans is education. American History in the public school system leaves a lot to be desired, and the average person hasn't taken the time to crack open a book, or do any research online. Not only were men like  Washington and  Jefferson criminals: rapists, pedophiles, kidnappers, thieves and slave owners, but they also sold out white Americans, African Freemen, and the Indigenous who fought against the British, as well as every generation that has followed.

      Here is an important excerpt from the link I have provided.  The United States has remained a British Colony since the Revolutionary War. … _index.htm

      " ... Esquire - In English Law. A title of dignity next above gentleman, and below knight. Also a title of office given to sheriffs, sergeants, and barristers at law, justices of the peace, and others." Blacks Law Dictionary fourth ed. p. 641

      Benjamin Franklin, John Adams and John Jay as you can read in the Treaty were all Esquires and were the signers of this Treaty and the only negotiators of the Treaty. The representative of the king was David Hartley Esqr.. Benjamin Franklin was the main negotiator for the terms of the Treaty, he spent most of the War traveling between England and France. The use of Esquire declared his and the others British subjection and loyalty to the crown.

      In the first article of the Treaty most of the kings claims to America are relinquished, except for his claim to continue receiving gold, silver and copper as gain for his business venture. Article 3 gives Americans the right to fish the waters around the United States and its rivers. In article 4 the United States agreed to pay all bonafide debts. If you will read my other papers on money you will understand that the financiers were working with the king. Why else would he protect their interest with this Treaty?

      I wonder if you have seen the main and obvious point? This Treaty was signed in 1783, the war was over in 1781. If the United States defeated England, how is the king granting rights to America, when we were now his equal in status? We supposedly defeated him in the Revolutionary War! So why would these supposed patriot Americans sign such a Treaty, when they knew that this would void any sovereignty gained by the Declaration of Independence and the Revolutionary War? If we had won the Revolutionary War, the king granting us our land would not be necessary, it would have been ours by his loss of the Revolutionary War. To not dictate the terms of a peace treaty in a position of strength after winning a war; means the war was never won. Think of other wars we have won, such as when we defeated Japan. Did MacArthur allow Japan to dictate to him the terms for surrender? No way! All these men did is gain status and privilege granted by the king and insure the subjection of future unaware generations. Worst of all, they sold out those that gave their lives and property for the chance to be free.

      When Cornwallis surrendered to Washington he surrendered the battle, not the war. Jonathan Williams recorded in his book, Legions of Satan, 1781, that Cornwallis revealed to Washington during his surrender that "a holy war will now begin on America, and when it is ended America will be supposedly the citadel of freedom, but her millions will unknowingly be loyal subjects to the Crown."...."in less than two hundred years the whole nation will be working for divine world government. That government that they believe to be divine will be the British Empire."

      All the Treaty did was remove the United States as a liability and obligation of the king. He no longer had to ship material and money to support his subjects and colonies. At the same time he retained financial subjection through debt owed after the Treaty, which is still being created today; millions of dollars a day. And his heirs and successors are still reaping the benefit of the kings original venture. If you will read the following quote from Title 26, you will see just one situation where the king is still collecting a tax from those that receive a benefit from him, on property which is purchased with the money the king supplies, at almost the same percentage: ..."

      1. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Amazingly for once , you hit close to the truth ,  And in that essence  you also hit  upon the frailty and  the problematic survivability of the political beginnings of America . Problem being is that,  THAT frailty has been there since the beginning and continues to this day as well . While normally you're assumption that those American colonialist origins  was some sort of  an evil  intent , a satanic strategy , a empirical agenda .

        Wow , are you admitting you've always otherwise , been wrong ?

  2. Joel Beavers profile image61
    Joel Beaversposted 7 years ago

    I feel that even though our fore fathers were slave owners, as they were writing and developing the constitution, it conflicted them. they did strive for change. they abolished slavery in 8 of the original colonies. and also forbid it from being extended west with the Northwest Ordinance.

  3. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

    If a black child is raised in a white family he will be just like every one in his family. If a white child is raised in a black family, he will be similar to the other the members of his family. When all families raise their children in the same way, there will be no racism. Cultural differences create racism. What else causes racism?

    1. Jewels profile image82
      Jewelsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Fear and ignorance.  Or Ignorance and fear.

  4. colorfulone profile image77
    colorfuloneposted 7 years ago

    “Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today.”
    ― Theodore Roosevelt

  5. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

    Speaking of money … do the American people really want to pay Hillary even ONE MORE CENT?
    For what exactly?

    Women's equality?
    We have it,
    Minorities' equality?
    We have it already.
    Welfare mothers?
    We have them already
    Single payer Insurance?
    No thanks.
    Higher taxes?
    They're high enough.
    Environmental concerns?
    We need coal, oil, and natural gas.
    Govt. Alien and UFO Information disclosure?
    Hmmm … no. The price will be too high ~
    in more ways than one!

    Just My Opinion

  6. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

    The election this year shows THAT exactly  Kathryn , The tail is wagging the dog !     But such IS the new left .
    Our  founding fathers would be ashamed to admit  American citizenship today .

    1. wrenchBiscuit profile image69
      wrenchBiscuitposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      You may be right about that one. But it appears they weren't ashamed to own slaves, or to rape young slave girls whenever they got the notion. God Bless America!

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
        Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Their intent was good. To establish a democratic republic. Whomever is too lazy to read The Federalist Papers, which explains the basis of The Constitution, May Heaven Help Him or Her.

        1. colorfulone profile image77
          colorfuloneposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Read, read, read, while you can!   
          ADDED:  "gravitas"

      2. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Wrench , I think I'm going to start posting  stories of Native American atrocities  against their own , Just for you !

        Just to inform you of ALL the truths of history. Not just the singular one you read.

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago


    1. Speaking of money, George Soros is worth @ 25 billion.
    He seems to be another Anti-Christ like Hitler.
    He knows a lot and wants to just have his way ...

    2. Speaking of money, he mentions in this video that profit motive used to be seen as a sin in Christian religion, but more and more people are getting hooked on it for the sake of itself alone as our moral values fade.  He said, these people, who are becoming addicted to earning profit, don't really even know how to spend it. 

    Now, that is a very interesting observation.

    He has a lot of insights like this as revealed in the video. But clearly, he is using his great awareness toward the wrong ends. (Just check out the multitude of videos that expose his intentions.) He wants open borders. He thinks China will lead the way in a global economy toward a New World Order and that the value of the US dollar must weaken/decline for this to happen. He hates Israel and he loves Islamist Terrorism. He has contributed millions toward Hillary's campaign.

    Here is our common ALIEN to fight. mad

    Y I K E S yikes!

    1. wrenchBiscuit profile image69
      wrenchBiscuitposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I followed your link and watched the entire video. I am in agreement with much of what I heard, although I disagree with his atheist outlook. He is very articulate and intelligent. But he even admitted that he was disillusioned by the fact that in trying to restructure certain nations after the collapse of an old regime, he found that an open society did not result, but only a new tyrannical regime.

      Of course, in a Capitalist world economy, money is an important factor in creating an open society, and I respect his knowledge, but the people must first be educated, de-programmed, and de-colonized before any real positive change can occur. And such a process will take several generations to complete. You can't take a society of ignorant, materialistic people, like we have here in the U.S., put them behind the wheel of a fancy new car, and expect them to keep it on the road. No amount of money can make that happen overnight.

      I don't have a problem with the Constitution. What I have a problem with is the fact that it is a worthless "feel good" document. There is no way for the citizen to enforce what is written therein when they continue to be  ruled by big money interests. The biggest threat to all Americans is Wall Street and the big money that makes it roll. These are the terrorists who shape domestic and foreign policy, and cause the deaths of millions of innocent people here and abroad. Once  the corporate thugs at the top are shut down, the rest are bound to follow. But I don't see this happening. The American people are so tied to materialism, they would never risk it all for freedom. Especially since their Overlords have made it so easy for them to pretend that they are already free.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
        Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Probably so! yikes!

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
          Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          How about, if the people of the US change, The Constitution could save them.
          maybe a gradual inclination toward anarchy would naturally evolve in time (generations)?
          or what?

  8. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

    Benjamin Franklin, on the other hand:
    "'Remember that credit is money.'
    It’s easy to forget that borrowed money is still money. Just because you aren’t paying now, don’t forget that everything you spend will need to be paid back – with interest.

    'Rather go to bed without dinner than to rise in debt.'
    I’m not a big proponent of going hungry, but Franklin’s really trying to say that if you can’t afford something, sometimes it’s better to go without.

    'If you would know the value of money, try to borrow some.'
    There’s a reason lenders want you to show them that you can handle money before they’re willing to lend it to you without all the fees and big interest rates they use to mitigate risk.

    'Our necessities never equal our wants.'
    It can be hard to tell the difference, but it’s crucial to learn what you really need and what you only want.

    'Who is rich? He that rejoices in his portion.'
    It’s okay to want more from life, but that shouldn’t stop you from appreciating what you already have.

    'He that waits upon fortune is never sure of a dinner.'
    There’s nothing wrong with having big dreams, but hard work is a better bet when it comes time to pay the bills.

    'Happiness consists more in small conveniences of pleasures that occur every day, than in great pieces of good fortune that happen but seldom to a man in the course of his life.'
    To (badly) paraphrase another famous saying, “Life is what happens while you’re waiting for your life to happen.” Why wait? Enjoy the day in front of you!

    'Money never made a man happy yet, nor will it.'
    There is nothing in its nature to produce happiness. The more a man has, the more he wants. Instead of its filling a vacuum, it makes one. If it satisfies one want, it doubles and trebles that want another way. There’s no denying that money makes things easier. But money for money’s sake is a road with no end. Saving, creating, and building money to serve a goal is a good idea. Hording money just to have it just leads to constant dissatisfaction.

    'If you know how to spend less than you get, you have the philosopher's stone.'
    The key to any successful budget! By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.
    In money and in life, you can’t anticipate every possibility, but you can always do something to prepare.

    'Having been poor is no shame, but being ashamed of it is.'
    Where we come from and what we’ve experienced are crucial elements of who we are. And we’re constantly evolving. Never feel bad for the places you’ve been and the choices you’ve made. Just learn, and get better.

    'He does not possess wealth that allows it to possess him.'
    Your money should be a tool that helps you achieve your goals. Don’t be a tool for your money.
    Wealth is not his that has it, but his that enjoys it.Ultimately, we all aim to live a happy life. Great wealth should never be measured in bank notes, but in our day-to-day joy."

    Quotes and explanations from: … today.aspx

  9. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

    The good of money is the use of money, said Benjamin Franklin. Freedom of speech can be abused. Religion can be abused and money can be abused. The abuse of these things is what is bad. Not the proper use toward some good: What is good?
    L I F E  smile


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