Why is it that different cultures cant get along? What exactly are we afraid of? We all suffer the same, but different. Right?
I think it is as simple enough. Ignorance. Often the worst type of ignorance.
Ignorance by choice. In Prahran an inner city suburb of Melbourne we speak 180 different languages. No room for racism when the races are as mixed as this.
People are often scared of what they do not understand. People are educated by interraction, and this interraction unifies the world. People that go to school or work with people of other racial creeds are often less prejudiced, and more tolerant.
We have to as a society continue to create environments where people interract and work together. The strength of a nation lies in the ability of the sum of its parts to be of one accord.
The short answer to "why the various people can't get along" is because that is the nature and purpose of this material civilization's existence, specifically the United States of America as foretold to be the first nation to terminate.
This material civilization is designed to allow every life-forces of all earthen entities to experience every conceivable attribute of everything earth is made of and known as "The Law of Karma" or "reaping what is sown". Using the symbolisms available to us it means every entity contains both positive and negative called femininity and masculinity in human; four different ethnics called Asian, American Natives, Africans and Europeans; twelve tribes or eastern Zodiac signs and twelve western Zodiac sign that each life-force has to live individually and as every conceivable combination thereof. Usually they are not jumbled together as they are here in the US.
Because those different attributes have different temperaments and personalities their focuses are different and by schooling, the people who accepts unquestioningly their schooled mentalities especially ethnically, will show allegiance to each other. Then there is a time each ethnic was in the superior or ruling position the Bible symbolizes as the lion, a lesser position as human, a preyed on position as calf and a fleeing position called flying eagle (Revelation 4:7) at different times like the four seasons of the year. Using the seasons we can say civilization began with Asian (garden eastward in Eden) for Spring of the beginning, the American Natives for summer, the Africans for autumn and lastly the European as the destroyers as frost snow kills everything except evergreen trees. The various mixtures represent different temperaments to the primary four.
Now that we are within a decade of the civilization's termination and the USA being European controlled and foretold to be the last ruling nation built on the "send of man" (Daniel 2:45 & Revelation 17:15), all of those various groups are here and what we are witnessing is why there have been continued wars between nations.
So, yes, we have all suffered it but differently.
I think the reason we Americans are still divided is because their is so much power to be had by the politicians. Example, when Democrats accuse Republicans of being racist it is so they can keep getting 90% of the Black vote and make in roads into the Hispanic vote. When they accuse Republicans of wanting to stop Social Security checks of the elderly, it's for votes. It is the old maxim, "Divide and Conquer." Of course there are still those who just hate because they believe the other guy hates them, along with the people who believe they are superior. In reality there are lots of reasons for racism they are all just woefully disgraceful.
It is my perception and those of my many friends that the conservatives
are the miscreants when it comes to the issue of racism. Of course, racism is not confined to just the conservatives .But, being very observant
I can say with much justification that many of the people who manifest
racial hatred come from conservatives.
Heard of Rush Limbaugh? The more he opens his mouth the more
ammunition he provides for individuals who claim that he is a racist.
What causes one to be become a racist? People are not born with a racist disposition but acquire it from others in society who are themselves racist. To justify their racism they choose events thast occur
in which individuals or groups they hate behave in a manner that
elicits negative response from members of society. For example,if one hates Asians , he/she would one use the undesiarble actions of one or a few individuals from the Asian group to stereotype all Asians as "undesirable elements" in society. However, if a member of his/her own racial group is the perpetrator of the same crime nothing negative is said. This is called selective morality.
I regard the claim that Democrats accuse Republicans of racism to get the black vote is utterly preposterous! The writer is implying that blacks are not intelligent enough to see that they are being manipulalated
by Democrats to gain their support. He should tune in to conservative leaning radio stations to observe the venom spewed by conservative talks-show hosts against certain minority groups.There is none so blind as he that would not see!
I am not black nor Hispanic nor Asian but my heart bleeds for the egregious acts of injustice in this wonderful land called the United States of America!
I don't believe there is any single reason for racism or xenophobia, instead I think these both stem from a variety of causes none of which are logical and many of which are created to maintain status quo within any given cultural power center.
In the United States the status quo has been for 234 years central European Male (i.e. predominately Anglo Saxon) dominated. With each wave of immigration the status quo was slightly challenged, however because most of those waves were European they were easily integrated into the whole after some adjustment.
Where the real challenges came in were those waves of immigration that were so distinctly different from the norm or were involuntary, in order of the wave.
Chinese Indentured Servants (Railroads & Mining Labor)
Japanese Farm Labor (California & Hawaii)
Hispanic Farm & Ranch Labor (Border States primarily)
In each of the cases above laws were created to ensure these people were fully disenfranchised from opportunity. In most cases up until the 1940's or even later were held as "different" under the law. Why? Because they were viewed as a threat to the American way of life, in one way or another.
A threat to our economy.
A threat to our moral values.
A threat to our national security.
A threat to the power structure.
The truth is and this should sound familiar. In each of the cases above, the wealthy sought cheap sources of labor and found them. They replaced American workers thus disenfranchising those they previously employed, who in turn hated their replacements. Over time those replacements became the source of great tension and thus the target of hate and hate mongering.
Over longer time frames those same targets became political fodder and remain so to this day. Bones for the dogs to fight over.
Funny thing is? We are still having the same discussions, we are still having the same fights. The issues might be slightly different, certainly more complex yet and still we still have the same fights and the same people are still in charge, still feeding our fears and ensuring our ignorance.
Oddly we are back to the same cycles and we don't see it. We are turning on each other rather than turning on the people who are creating the dissension.
Earnest said it best, it is ignorance by choice.
White slavery was legal in the United States until 1848. There was a time when free prosperous blacks in New Orleans owned slaves. Many Irish can here as indentured servants working under woeful conditions - there is a dead Irishman for every mile of the Erie canal. It is an over simplification to lay all blame on any race, class or sex since women were not barred from owning slaves and slavery was common among American Indians.
American culture, the grand over arching culture, is a continuation of western culture. It was western Europeans, English, Scots, Irish, Dutch, French, Danes, Spanish and Portuguese not central Europeans - Poles, Slovaks, Cheks - that explored and colonized the new world.
Lets be very clear.....
Were there any Blacks or Native Americans who were in positions of power and within the top 2% of wealth at any time from the founding of the United States forward through the 1970's? How many of the top 2% are people of color today?
White slavery as you pointed out was actually indentured servants, their service was for a very specific period of time and they had rights. Many of the indentured servants were criminals serving their "prison terms".
My apologies, I will just be blunt
WHITE MEN had all the power in the United States of America and continue to have all the power in the United States of America. The reason there continues to be xenophobia and racism in the United States of America is primarily because WHITE MEN are afraid of losing that power and thus they perpetuate racism.
Uncorrectedvision's post is one of the ways in which they do this, by trying to pretend the worst human rights infringements and human indignities were not perpetuated in this country. This is the duck and dodge -
The Irish were quickly assimilated into the community at large. Yes they worked under frightful conditions, they did not however, work in chains.
Natives had always owned slaves, in fact slavery among the tribes was quite common. They frequently married their slaves and assimilated them into their families.
The rare number of freed Black men or women who owned slaves were primarily Louisianan and were an anomaly.
Yes, women could own slaves. Never the less it was rare for a woman to do so. It was rare for a woman to own any property except by inheritance.
So the real point of any discussion regarding race is a veiled screed against "white men" and the general society.
No, but in this country the reason we have a problem is we have a cultural divide established through laws to protect those in power. We have had these since the country was established. Many of those laws remained on the books in some states well into the 1970's. In this country we continue to fan the flames both overtly and covertly to maintain the status quo. In this country we continue to maintain the enemies of our "way of life" are "not like us" and the pictures we use always depict people of color, whether Asian, African or Middle Eastern.
The fact is human nature seems to have an inbred need to protect itself from that which is "different". Throughout history wars have been fought and cultures assimilated. The interesting thing is, one of two very distinct things happen after a war is won;
Either the defeated culture is fully assimilated and ultimately accepted. Intermarriage becomes the norm and both cultures adopt what is "best" from the other.
Or the defeated culture become enslaved and second class citizens, with no rights or privileges. Their culture rapidly disappears including religion, moral and ethical values, and ultimately ethnicity.
When you put two people in a room they seem to be able to work out their differences. When you add a third, it is often difficult as that third will often have an agenda to keep them apart. That is what we face in this country today, the third person with an agenda.
I noted you did not answer the questions I asked of you.
There is no point in answering questions asked from hostility. I have never been one for caprophagia.
i guess in your mind facing the truth is caprophagic. exactly todays problem.
I've never heard the word coprophagic used in this context. I have this image of some hostile angry people eating feces because no one agrees with them. I also hate the term people of color. It's quite insensitive. I have no fear of white men in charge whether they are appointed officials, elected officials, corporate heads or family, nor do I fear black men or any men or women for that matter. What I do disapprove of is a writer who perpetuates history as though it were relevant today. The argument against this will be something like 'if we forget history we are doomed to repeat it'. I disagree. There is plenty we should forget and plenty we should just learn. The original OP asks why people of different cultures can't get along and there is someone champing at the bit to bring in the race card. I have no problem with anyone of any culture. In fact I seek out people who are different so I can learn from them. I guess it's the rest of you who are causing all the trouble.
I absolutely disagree. You are stating that we should forget racism or slavery ever happened in this country. The fact is, the foundations that white people, mainly men, received from generations and generations of opportunity to achieve and access to wealth...people of color did NOT receive until the beginning of the 70s. That is a fact and it was not too long ago. Great...we have a guy who is half black as President. That doesn't mean the problem is fixed; that means that particular guy worked his tail off and was in the right place at the right time. Pretending history didn't happen is ignorant. Limiting information is just a manifestation of intent to conceal, shame. Here is an exercise...think of some event in history that mattered. Now try to figure out if it happened twice. If you can't find the second occurrence, then you aren't looking hard enough.
Very true. Also, politicians also manipulate race issues for their own political purposes, as in my post above about Nixon, Haldeman and Attwater and the "southern strategy."
i've watched you over the past few weeks on this topic , whenever it comes up. you want to deny or somehow dissapate the causes and the blame of this american tragedy and i understand.
what they say is not veiled. but screed ok. it's fact. it is what it is. it is real and what they and i( in earlier forums) have said is true! you wish for it to go away. it was ugly.we and everyone know that it was not you that started it, however you could still be rascist( not saying that you are) based on your upbringing which if so stems directly from slavery. we can aggree on that.
regardless to how we feel(which has no bearing on the facts)this happened nonetheless and it's point of origin is as they and i have said. it is "history", unchangeable! i've often used a phrase that says " it's not the crime so much as it is the coverup" that prolongs any given situation. but that is where it came from. and all the racial disention ,chaos that we have had over the last 145 years has come from the top 2% not wanting to pay anybody!
"WHITE MEN had all the power in the United States of America and continue to have all the power in the United States of America. The reason there continues to be xenophobia and racism in the United States of America is primarily because WHITE MEN are afraid of losing that power and thus they perpetuate racism."
Well, black males had all the power (after 1950, that is) in Sub Sahara African societies. And they NEVER made a single gesture to white people to have racial inclusionism - EVER - when Europe gave up its colonialism there. Asian males have the power in all their respective societies (brief period of Anglo imperialism). I don't get the point? What male group in human history voluntarily integrated with another racial group, linguistic group or religious group (i.e. a different male group)? There is NOTHING in the American Constitution requiring integration. NOTHING. Federal integration laws (civil rights law) began in 1964. I don't think white male perpetuate racism. I think many among them are behaving just like any other group would who has been forcibly integrated w/ another people. Blacks after 1865 were a free people. They were free to build their own towns, build their own industries, build their own cities, or colonize a place in America. Since you are a female, I do not believe you can relate to why males historically have created ALL societies- and based on just ONE pattern. It is basically status. What exists today (only in Western Civilization countries) in an anomaly. This anomaly is breaking down.
Equality does not have to be stated in any constitution.Any civilzed moral
should be able to see that inequality is immoral and unethical.The
eradication of racism is not easy! How many people would desire to give up their privileged psition so easily? It requires empathy,sympathy and
You're right Silver, "equality" cannot be legislated. Is a 5 '2" equal to a 6'0'? Is a female equal in strength to a male? Will a 24-year-old male get equal treatment in a job interview to that of a 24-year-old beautiful female, wearing a short (above the knees) skirt, looking and acting provocative? I can go on and on. You know I can go on and on. Civil rights is mainly about generating lawsuits (making people do what human nature forbids - and human history denies is possible). It's also an abuse of legislative system. Bottom line: No male group owes another male group integration rights (where is that precedent in human history). A legislative system is NOT designed for this purpose.
One male group cannot use another male group, claiming they are the SOURCE of their equality, dignity, freedom and manhood. Regardless of what written laws a few white male planted in their Constitution after the Civil War (i.e. 14th- 15th Amendments), the black race was ALWAYS intended to be separate and self-reliant as ONE distinct people. Could you possibly imagine an Indian Tribe marching out of their geographic area and lining up outside another Indian Tribe's geographically claimed area, then demanding integration rights, claiming their freedom, dignity and manhood are inside THAT tribe - not their own? White people opened up Pandora's Box by agreeing to the civil rights law of 1964. Among so many things, Americans gave up their most cherished possession: White Americans gave up their identity.
Look how white Americans are referred to today: white or Caucasian. Every other male group has a group designation (e.g. African Americans, Persian Americans, Chinese, Mexican Americans, etc.). The creators of American society, the original Americans (White Christian males), have become the personification of wickedness. And what is the source of this wickedness? White people failed to commit to the integration demands of the black males. Once the 1964 civil rights law was passed, the American gov't (not the American people) legitimized in the mind of the black man that he had been WRONGED. Everything that he could find of comparable difference in his black community to the that of the white community, that difference was NOW the result of this great WRONG. It does not , and it NEVER will, factor into the black man's reasoning that no distinct people from another had ever been given integration rights into the establish society of that group. It also does not matter - pre 1964 - that the black man was truly free, free to build, in America's vast unsettled lands, his own cities, his own towns, his own industries, his own urban housing, colonize a place in America, or demand a homeland. And within the confines of his own male group, his own claimed geographic area, he could create his own political environment, his own definition of dignity, equality and manhood (e.g. the Amish, Mormons, EVERY Indian Tribe, etc).
BTW, the Romans went down this SAME road the Americans (white Christian males) started down in 1964. The Romans abused the word citizen and tried to make everyone "a Roman". That was in 212 AD. 70 years later, the Empire collapsed. And there are no more Romans. They were a real people, just like the Americans were a real people.
Maxim: Those who do not learn lessons from history are doomed to repeat it.
Phew, do you wear a white pointy hat on Sundays and burn Niggas for sport.
Of course in history there was no especial need for on race to get on with another. When the vast majority of people never went further than a days walk from their birthplace there was no need to learn to get along with folk you didn't know existed nor ever meet. That changes just a bit when you can get out of bed on one side of the globe and that same evening go to bed on the other side.
As I recall, not too many black Africans came knocking at the door of your (well actually not yours but the Native Americans) geographical territory, the vast majority came against their will, severed from their roots and homeland . . . oh life's too short to waste on racist bigots like you.
You poor poor thing. You are right...white christian men have had it so hard in the world, in history. Awww....you poor poor baby. Do you want a cookie?
And who said I was a white (Christian) male? If I add 2+2 and I come up w/ 4, does that make me mathematician? If I write E = mc2 , does that make me a physicist? A truth is undeniable.
I've become aware of an extraordinary phenomenon that is simply unprecedented in human history: a very definable and very distinct group (no different than the Chinese, Japanese, Russians, Ibo Tribe, etc), White (Christian) males (and females), the recognized Americans all the way to 1964, have been literally stripped of their identity as a people, and even more shocking (if that's possible), have been taught to become the most self-loathing group in human history. Every other group would stick up for their group members. Not white Christians. They invite people outside your own group to malign, ridicule and mock them. In Jenna a group of black kids (race mattered to them) attacked a single white male. He had no chance at all.!! First was the sucker punch, then the stomping and kicking. He was left in unconscious. Sharpton then came all the way from NY and forms a black phalanx marching down Jenna's main street...protesting about excessive punishment - for the black youths who clearly tried to murder the white kid. Sharpton was not only mocking the white people in Jenna, but the white people in America. Any other male group would have interpreted his actions that way. White people simply sat back and took it - Sharpton knew they would. It was, in reality, a racial hate attack.
American white people are being turned into laughing stocks (pack-attacked, spit on, made into buffoons on TV). Like the British, they used to be a respected people. They are looked at around the world (mainly thanks to Hollywood) as buffoons. I'm trying to help a people recover their image ---that has been literally beaten into self-hate. If white Christian people refuse to respect themselves, how do they expect respect from other groups?
Your advocacy of white self respect sounds to me suspiciously like the German aryan supremacy of the 1930s.
WOW. You draw THAT conclusion?! You simply throw out "aryan supremacy" ? which naturally equates to Nazis, which leads to group extermination. Group identity and pride for ONLY white Christians equate to Nazism? NONSENSE.
What a joke. I mock your explanation of the Jenna situation. First of all, when a black freshman sat at the "white tree", the next day nooses were hung up. Then, when turned away from a party, a white guy got into a fight with the 4 black kids, and upon leaving that, they got jumped again by another group of white guys, some weren't even in school, breaking a beer bottle on one of the black kid's heads. Next day, one of the white kids showed up at a convenience store holding a shotgun when 3 of the black kids walked out. The black kid's jumped and beat the heck out of that white kid, but it isn't so cut and dry as you proclaimed.
Secondly, white christians are not America. Indians are America. We stole it. Now the more I read your article, the more I realize that there is no point. Sir, your comments are riddled with Aryan white power bigoted statements and I am ashamed to be your topic. See, I am a white male. Please, do not defend me any longer. Your words bring shame to my race.
Before spouting out your bull, you need to check some facts.
Here's a fact
In addition to African slaves, Europeans, mostly Irish, Scottish, English, and Germans, were brought over in substantial numbers as indentured servants, sometimes referred to as "white slaves"
Although there are many places you can research this, I am just going to give you wikipedia, where this fact came from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in … ted_States
There are bigots in every form, aren't there?
You seem to be conflicted. You start out by saying that there are "Many" reasons. Then follow up with saying that it's predominately because of "WHITE" men. Which is it?
Racism is simply COLOR prejiduce. Terms such as RACE will soon be completely debunked by science. Note, your constant reference to color.
A majority will nearly allways attempt to assert itself over a minority. It's human nature. It happens in nearly every animal grouping
It may be a fact that a few blacks did own slaves. Are you justifying slavery because a few blacks practised this ? Would you regard a gallon of water as milk if one drop of milk fell into the gallon?
Of course, today not many whites would be proud of the practice of slavery
by their ancestors. Racism was an extension of a very cruel and reprehensibe system - slavery. No person with an ounce of intelligence
would claim that the present pathetic state of blacks in the USA is not
the result of slavery!
Before we go down the road of explaining all the divisions that have been contrived and by whom, I wish to point out that the premise that different cultures can't get along is flawed.
In my perspective, throughout time multi-lingual, multi-ethnic, and multi-religious societies have lived together in relative peace... Even in the colonial British America, indentured servants were European and African....slavery was not instituted immediately... There were poor freedmen too, who were from European and African descent....there were also Native Americans who commonly associated with these two aforementioned populations... The divisions did not exist...
What became American racism was born in laws passed by the colonial governments.... These ordinances made it a crime for "white", "black", and "indian" to freely associate... Indentured servants who were caught violating these policies were subject to lengthened periiods of servitude, and Africans were subject to a new practice....of permanent servant status..
Death was even one of the punishments for inter-racial mingling...
The few propertied elite....the large estate/plantation owners...the business owners..(most slaves did not work in fields, but actually worked in workshops of various types whether as shipbuilders, printers, masons, and other numerous other trades)..the elite were fearful of revolt. Since Bacon's Rebellion and the burning of Jamestown to the ground, there was tension concerning what a united, equally poor, and focused populace could be capable of...
From this point, the wealthy, large landowners and businessowners were largely able to gain the support of the "white" population...thereby setting up a buffer...The "whites" being paid by the landowning/business owning class had something to compare their relative "freedom" to.......actual slaves. There is nothing like dropping the standards of society on a group of people to shut up larger opposition or agitation. Having a population of people on permanent lockdown also requires a workforce of "code enforcers"
There is more I can say, but I will leave it here for now... The source of "racial/cultural" tensions are not a clear staple of human social/cultural history....
There is some great research done on these laws....
I think this is the same thing I was saying but probably not as diplomatically.
"In my perspective, throughout time multi-lingual, multi-ethnic, and multi-religious societies have lived together in relative peace..."
Oh really mikelong? I'm pretty well versed in American history, as well as Western Civilization history - those events that have been deemed worthy of being recorded that is. I have to say, your statement I quoted is preposterous (not trying to be mean-spirited, but C'mon). Perhaps you meant something different than you implied.
so then if you are well versed what did he say that is wrong? you did notice crazy t anouncement of thousands upon thousands of blacks owned slaves . when only happening in louisiana it was an anomaly. but did you dispute that? your view is obviouly slanted and we here at the hub don't need a light to see through you.
I am pretty well verse too buddy. I have two degrees over my computer to prove it, and my man...your posts are riddled with inaccuracies.
Oh, I also wanted to add that I think you are misrepresenting Bacon's Rebellion. It was simply a rebellion against the status quo...which happened to attract a very diverse group of rebels. PERIOD. Had this group been successful, it would / could never have resulted in a marriage of these diverse groups into ONE body forming a cooperative union ie. societal structure.
Perhaps you meant Nat Turners Rebellion? This was the ONLY case in American history a black man fought for a homeland for blacks. I wish he'd succeeded.
No Leretseh....I did not mean Nat Turner....
Again...Bacon's Rebellion....white and black former indentured servants....who had been "freed" from their "service" were then pushed to the western frontiers by landowning elites of the Virginia Company town...Jamestown...
They were upset with the Company appointed governors...who supported the large landowners over those, like Bacon, who had nothing....
The "status quo"....yes....Bacon and those who joined him were standing up against the "the wealthy benefit while the poor struggle" status quo created by the Virginia Company....
I wrote quite clearly, and I meant what I said...
Here's an example of racism from this month's Harper's:
"Pioneers of the Southern Strategy in the Nixon administration, to cite a more recent example, understood that after the civil rights movement the GOP could no longer make simple appeals to white racism. As White House chief of staff H. R. Haldeman noted in his diary, Nixon 'emphasized that you have to face the fact that the whole problem is really the Blacks. Teh key is to devise a system that recognizes this while not appearing to.' Republican strategist Lee Atwater spelled out the system's elements more clearly:
"You start out in 1954 by saying "Nigger, nigger, nigger--that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights, and all that stuff. You're gettin so abstract now you're talking about cutting taxes, and all those things you're talkin about are totally economic things and a by-product of them is blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it."
Corey Robin from "The Party of Loss--Conservatism and Counter-revolution from Burke to Palin" in Harper's December 2010.
So is there a solution to all this "othering"?
Is the gov't really that powerful - when many gov't groups are supposedly "for the people"?
Are people organizing in non-violent ways to bring things they don't like to the attention of those who have agency to bring about change? Not talking "revolution" here - talkin' "negotiation."
Well, I haven't noticed anyone from the White House or the Congress participating in the HubPages forums.
without being able to see the future. i would say that the sooner everyone recognizes that it happened, eliminate the denial of it and treat it as history and don't tip toe around the subject (avoiding condesention),with anybody, things would be fine.
i don't think this forum would be possible today if everyone accepted the facts. it's those that deny that it took place or as much of it as they can that continue the controversy.
I agree with you, Joe. The way I see it though is that there are two camps of people. Those who accept history and move on and those who are somehow embarrassed by it. The first group is more enlightened. The second group is just not as good at doing that. Doesn't make them bad people in any way. As far as mythbuster's comment, I don't see what government has to do with it. They are not in charge of acceptance or tolerance. They can only make laws whereby all citizens are treated equally within the same situation. Which brings up another issue. This thing about tolerance. Tolerance is something you show to a child who doesn't yet understand how to behave or something similar. When it comes to culture, we should move well beyond tolerance and into embrace.
It is Odd growing up on the west coast of the US and admitting that I didn't even know that racism was still an issue of any significance until I learned how things still seem to be on the east coast. History seems to be the drug of choice for those who have such a history.
Those locked in that history continually keep bringing it up and have found power in using it against those who wish to avoid the brands of nature that history engenders. Having worked in a call center, I came to understand over three years at 200 calls a day that there are areas in this nation that are more locked in history then others.
No culture is blameless, no race if you want to use that word is without fault. Couture is right, some history is best forgotten. Our children won't know the difference and may in time look at us odd if we ever bring up the subject. If there is in fact a conspiracy at the top then the whole liberal, verses conservative mongering probably is part of it too.
Splitting the races along ideological lines even within any given group keeps anyone from actually thinking of the revolutions that are en codified in our declaration of independence. Though revered by lip-service few seem to quote some of the lines as they used to.
I say, anyone who draws a paycheck is a slave of sorts and the differences in size of paychecks keeps the institution alive, it just is more expensive then it was before but not altered in any other way if you want to be totally honest. If it is change you want you had better find a way to agree and a mode or system in which you won't repeat the problem and call it something different just so your conscience doesn't hurt too much in the process.
Before you go lopping off the heads of the rich though you probably aught to take a lesson from the French and their revolution. Most may hate the French for many of their stands on issues of international import but they as well as other nations are old enough to remember what happened the last time people started speaking a certain way and acting on those beliefs. Do more then talk or talk not at all. Holding grudges does no one any good.
well that sounds very utopian of you! what you fail to see is " why would anyone forget something like that? secondly all the benefits produced from the success of slavery were created by the slaves, but they received zero. in fact it was done at their expense. not by accident were they just short changed. laws were passed that made it a felony for them to learn to read or write, a felony for anyone to teach them to read or write, could not own property. example: black slaves began the rice industry in this country. how many blacks do you know that benefitted monetarily from this then or now? none! how many recieved an inheritance thus providing them a chance at school, or business and eventually pulling the rest of the family up.none! and i could go on and on. these are the reasons that you hear talk of reparations. in any court of law it would be a slam dunk. so to just forget about it for peace' sake is ludicrous . would you if some one came alomg and swindled you or usrped all rights and property from you. i think not.
Some people prefer white meat over dark meat. Personally, I always go for the drum stick.
If I have anything against what you post, Ralph though, is that you seem to not post much documenting the liberal race card as they seem to have gotten the memo as well. I was perfectly serious in stating that no one is free of guild so long as they cannot figure out ways to unify instead of bringing up this subject without any personal designs as to how to fix the matter and take upon themselves the life task of doing so.
Do you mean by the "liberal race card," pointing to the fact that prejudice and discrimination still exist in this country and that politicians in both parties use this to their political advantage?
This is unfortunately a divisive issue. However, the liberals are on the side of eliminating prejudice and discrimination, and some of the Republicans use residual discrimination in their appeals for votes. I don't agree that it's fair or accurate to equate the two sides on this issue. The GOP's southern strategy is a bald appeal to racism, and liberals are on the side of ending racism and prejudice.
Gonna be very interesting to see if the Black Caucus allows those new Black Republicans to join. You wanna bet Ralph, THEY DON'T? That white guy, I think from Tenn. was elected in a Black district. He was told basically to get the hell out by the Black Caucus. Then a Black reverend (from the South) said this about him: “He’s not black and he can’t represent me, that’s just the bottom line,” said Rev. Robert Poindexter of Mt. Moriah Baptist Church. “I don’t care how people try to dress is up, it always comes down to race and he can’t know what it’s like to be black.” Racial intolerance cuts across all races - including Black.
Well, it'll be up to the caucus whether they admit Uncle Toms.
I can't even believe you used that term. Twy, Joe - correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't an Uncle Tom a black person who behaves in a subservient way to a white person? This term is beyond racist in that it denies a person the freedom to choose his peers in ways other than race/color. If the Black Caucus bans them because they may have similar views as some white peers and the White Caucus bans them because they are black, where does that leave them? You know, this whole subject is rather sickening on every level. I will never know the inherent esteem of the decendents of slaves. This will be part of you for generations. But every generation must fight for the bettering of their next generation. I'll stick to my utopian view of a better world through love and understanding of all people. And I'll slap the crap out of anyone who behaves badly.
Racism and "Prejudice" is alive anywhere in the world. It is a fact of life because of lack of understanding and ignorance! It gets worst when you act upon it!
A former state trooper is charged with murder in the shooting death of Jimmie Lee Jackson, a black protester who was killed in 1965. Jackson's death united civil rights leaders across the country and led to the historic Selma-to-Montgomery march.
http://www.npr.org/2010/11/12/131270196 … -cold-case
http://www.npr.org/2010/11/15/131331014 … ra-slaying
Not only not forget...it goes on DAILY.
Just 2 examples from yesterday.....
Why in the world was George Bush talking about "black testicles".....same day as the ole Racist Standby, always can count on to be racist Russsshhhhhh says "driving miss Nanci", about a black Congressman.
They are keeping it in the undertow of conversation because they want Obama GONE.
And little miss Hillary is guilty of it too. "hard-working white people" on the campaign trail.
Code words. Code actions. KKK endorses Tea-Party.
Young people......STAY ALERT. This generation doesn't give a CRAP about race, or who you have sex with.....it's the OLD GUARD that is KILLING America. I M O
Another incoherent 'coded' message from the self-appointed spokesperson for America's youth.
What are you talking about? You couldn't undertand that? Should I write more slowly for you???
I have 3 daughters: 27,25 and 16.
They don't care what color you are, if you're gay or straight, or if you are female or male.
Everyone is equal in their eyes. It was not so for me growing up. I say this new generation has to be careful that the old predjudices don't creep in... ala Russshhhhhh and the rest of the OLD GUARD racists, homophobes and mysogynists.
And next time you feel like being insulting and snide.....pick on someone else...... you can ignore just as easily as denigrate. I'm not in the mood for righty-smears...had enough all day. Unless you want to pick a fight?
Congrats, lovemychris, for doing a good job raising your children! I can say the same about mine.
LMC, you don't need to speak more slowly, just more cohesively. Every generation is tainted by the one who came before them, it's true. One should take care to instill in one's children a fair mindedness which is difficult at best in the political arena. Many people allow their emotions to govern their wit and children pick up on all of it creating in them a more complex version of the parent who instilled it. Did you care about race when you were growing up? Your comments are usually filled with slams on many different people so I wonder why you became so hard.
I am a white slave with 2 paychecks, can do nothing about it, I guess too stupid. Too used to money, darn.
In Canada white population disappears, at least in Toronto. Area I live and work is completely ... brown I should say. I heard some insulting remarks like "white trash" etc. without any provocation from my side. Racism is alive, I guess.
Home Girl sorry to hear that you are not comfortable in Toronto! My wife and I visited Toronto a few uyears ago and we did not sense any hostility from people of other races. In fact, everybody was so polite and courteous to us. I am not trying to minimise your experiences. I am extremel;y surprised that you would experience such acts of hostility from others and of all places - CANADA!
I do hope that things change fopr the better.
I lived in Toronto for over 40 years and never had any problems because I was white...
Wait until they hold all the power, then see how you like it Girl.
There is such a thing as White Priviledge. Lucky you HAVE 2 jobs. How'd you like to be turned down because of the color of your skin?
How'd you like to pay more for worse living conditions?
How'd you like a sitting member of the Senate to say "get that cracker out of here"
You have a lot to learn about slavery lady...you don't know the half of it...and neither do I.
Did the massa come and take your kids away from you? Force you to have sex with him? Whip your man right before your eyes?
You have NO idea.
Gotta remember, thousands and thousands of us Blacks owned many slaves. Over 3000 free Blacks owned slaves in New Orleans in 1860 (about 30% of all free Blacks). One of the biggest slaveholders in the state of Louisiana was a free black female. She owned over 160 slaves for her surgar plantation. Blacks owned slaves all over the South before the Civil War. Blacks also fought on the side of the Confederacy at the end of the war - much to the consternation of Lincoln . Just the truth. I like Booker T. Washington. He stood up for Black folks and wanted true freedom. Not dependence on the Dominant White people. I still would like some knowledgeable person to tell me when this Civil Rights thing is going to pay off for the WHOLE black race: when are our families going to get put back together; when will there be more Black men in college than prison; when will Black males start to actually want to go to school and actually finish (me notwithstanding). I'm not gonna hold my breath. When ever people from another racial group start being an advocate for my people, I start to get defensive. Like mind your own business.
Who prevents them(blacks) now in North America to go to schools and colleges instead of prison?
It was not my luck to have two jobs, it was my will. There is always a job most people do not want to do. if I lose one - I will always find another one, that is unpleasant and paid little.
It's just a question how badly you need it and how far you are going to stretch yourself. Slavery is the thing of the past, discrimination - that's the problem. We have to get rid of it. Digging the past is not going to help.
your picture is a fake! you are not real. you think that if you use a black avatar that your mumbo jumbo will pass. you waste your time. you can't change history nor intelligent peoples minds. this view will only work with the unintelligent for which i'm sure you are familiar. it will not work with the hubpages group. we have become fine tuned in seeing the truth when it starts to bend. your truth turns 180degrees. go away you sound . . .stooopid!
Be careful, you are not in friendly territory. History only matters here if it supports anger and hostility.
same for you to mr revisionist
I already have your number.
maybe if you corrected your vision you could have a discussion that didn't sound like something from a 1960's mobile alabama picnic all the time it wouldn't be so obvious. but you, always talk as if you are the only one that knows the story and your facts are so diffused and the story is so bent that you try to make the culprits , the victim! keep my number that will keep my facts straight. i welcome you! because i'm sure you know . . . i got yours!
Ok. Let me respond to Old Joe B. My opinion, he’s a bully. He’s your classic definition of a bully. If you don’t agree with him and your Black, you an Uncle Tom, or a FAKE. Now Old Joe wouldn’t dare say that to my face. His generation (if he isn’t faking that avatar of his) they always move aside for my generation. I mean they move to the side of the street. Old Joe is out for himself. People should know that.
Ok, white people, here’s the problem you got yourself into. There are lot’s of Black Old Joes out there (maybe millions). These ain’t just words coming out of his mouth or being written in cyberspace. He MEANS what he says. He really do believe you White folks OWE him! You White folks keep given in. You just don’t understand. You NEVER give in to a bully. He’s never satisfied. A little anecdote:
This was pre high scrool. Me and my buddy went up to three white ‘s (same age about) sitting at a lunch table. I was standing over him and he was sitting. His other two buddies were sitting on the other side. I wasn’t any bigger than any of them, but I knew they wouldn’t fight. I just knew. I says to him, whatchu sitten at my table for? He says, what? Your table? I says, Yeah! You gotta pay me sit there. Gimme a dollar. Of course, he says no. It ain’t my table, and he’s not paying me. I say, Ok, then we’ll settle it after scrool. You better be out by the flag pole. He says, I ain’t fighting you. I says gimme a dollar and you don’t have to, other wise I’m gonna bash your brains out dude (something like that). And I looked like I meant it. None of his buddies did anything. They just sat there. I knew they would. You know what? He GAVE ME THE DOLLAR.
Then you know what? I came back a couple days later, and this time I demanded five dollars. I brought up what his people did to my people. “And now he gotta pay.” For five dollars I’ll leave him alone. HE went and told the principle. White guys love to go and tell on you. I chased him a few times after scrool, then you know what he did? He came up to me and gave me that, “listen, I don’t want any trouble “(I know he didn’t). “I‘m not racist.” (I don’t care if he was). “If I give you five will you stop chasing me.” I said Ok, gimme the five. He gave me five dollars! Guess what, now all my clique wanted a piece of this wimpy dude. He left the scrool - probably for an all White one. Moral of this story. Don’t give in to a bully! They ALWAYS gonna come back for more. And White guys, they ain’t no John Waynes anymore.
Ok. Back to Old Joe. You White fellas ever see a pit bull get lock in? Eyes are bulgin and he’s READY. You can yell at the dog all you want, it won’t hear you. Well, that’s Old Joe. You White guys just don’t see it. Old Joe is locked in. No words of reason are gonna get him out of his locked in mode. Let me tell you what you’re in for if you try to reason with Old Joe:
http://www.westernjournalism.com/tea-pa … y-leftist/
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/item … uG6uUySGTN
You reap what you sew. You created this monster White folks, now you gotta live with it (I mean Black folks like Old Joe). At least it seems that way to me.
BTW, I wonder how many of the White folks on this board are willing to cut Old Joe a check for that slavery thing? Let’s hear from you.
Oh, one final thing Old Joe. Did you hear that the gov’t is giving every black man 50 thousand dollars! Here’s the catch. You gotta say you wanted to be a farmer and the White folks (or gov’t agency run by White folks) wouldn’t let you - cuz you Black. That’s it.! Man, I don’t know about any of you guys out there, but this sure do smack of reparations to me (I hear over 70,000 black men already got paid). I betcha Old Joe got his 50 large.
Good Luck To Ya Old Joe
For some reason you're little story and accompanying b.s. don't have a ring of truth. Joe Barnett's comments are correct, they are shared by plenty of progressives, white and black.
Will I'm no prof. writer. I just told it how I rmembered it. It's straight up. I got other somewhat similar stories but I won't tell them. Strong-arming White folks is not really that uncommon. I'm just saying if a White dude disagrees with Old Joe, and he's standing in front of you, LOOK OUT. That's all.
"When ever people from another racial group start being an advocate for my people, I start to get defensive. Like mind your own business."
Lovemy: My whole spiel above was meant to say (which I said), “you reap what you sew”. I was NOT being an advocate for White people. Gotta be kidding! I said they (White people) created a monster by constantly giving in. And it ain’t NEVER going to stop. IMO.
I got no advice for White people for their present or future on what political ideology to support or condemn. My one and only advice to White folks: if you go face to face with Old Joe (or those like him), watch out that right arm. Just kiddin Old Joe - Kinda
"I said they (White people) created a monster by constantly giving in."
You mean by freeing the slaves, integrating the schools, making job and housing discrimination illegal, passing voting rights legislation and so forth?
Twyler - and they call you Crazy T. I agree with you but it seems like people are so mistrusting they can never believe that another person might really have their best interest at heart or the interest of humanity as a whole. There's a lot I want to write here but I keep deleting because it's just too deep to put into this superficial context. I think you gave your best advice, and that's "buck up Nancy Whitetail. Stop giving in to the race card. It's been dealt, dirty dealt, kept under the table, re-dealt, and thrown down. The jig is up". And Blackie Mr. Stoopshoulder, get thyself educated, in any way you can, that is federal loans, grants, books, life, kharma, past life regression, self-help seminars, whatever."
Twyler, this is an interesting insight. Joe has something to say, some truth, but I didn't necessarily see him as a bully, maybe because I'm not that easily insulted or maybe because I'm older or maybe because this is cyberspace. But you have some truth, too. Maybe one of the reasons young black males dress in terrifying outfits is to enhance their ability to intimidate. They've learned that a little intimidation goes a long way and yes, whites need to buck up and stop the madness as well. I get it. I get it. I get it. But Joe, it is over. You don't deserve any money any more than I do. The Nazis destroyed Italy and all the records of my people. All my inheritance, which was left with the church, all the beautiful artifacts and art, which should be mine, are gone. I'm not comparing apples to oranges just telling you, get over it. Talking about it is good. Write a book. Let the world know how you feel. Oh, wait, you were never a slave. I forgot. And Twy, you better give those kids their $6. back.
couture hi! this ordeal with twyler and i began after watching a few posts of his. i soon realized that he didn't talk like a black person. his views were that of an uneducated white. in a racial discussion about slavery as always and you know what i'm talking about the first thing out of his mouth was that blacks held slaves too.typically who "ALWAYS" says that? little did he realize we have had this conversation a dozen times here. to clear this up to, for him,
there were blacks that held slaves which was the only way to keep free slaves safe. it was called benevolent slavery. freed slaves had to pay a higher tax then anyone so if they were a slave in that regard it was better for them. also of the 3777 supposed households the record keeping was so bad that they weren't sure if that was the amount of slaves or people just hanging there for lack of having anyplace to go and or hired hands.also some of that 3777 were white.
then i watched the way he talked or wrote. the words that he spelled were in such a way as to create a white mans perception of a black accent. thats when i suspected that he wasn't real and only using a black avatar. i told him now he's angry lol!
an uncle tom was a person that wouldn't speak up for himself and would actually side with the slave holder.
reparations would start to make things right. on any scale in any court municipal,state federal. the victims would prevail, undoubtedly.i am not the only one that thinks this nor is this some unprecedented principal. here we have intelligent discussions.normally factbased except for twyler.
gen.sherman issued the 40 acres and a mule at the end of the civil war. but before it could go into law lincoln was shot and his sucessor revoked it
the nazis destroyed italy in a war that lasted 4 or 5 years. slavery lasted about 250 years. then extreme racism and jim crow laws set in for another 150which denied loans , jobs,education etc. check them and see what they were. so a big difference.it wasn't you just work hard ,there was an institution to prevent you from getting ahead. reparations should be paid by the federal gov't not white people. more of twyler(crazy t's) misinformation. he's not real . it's a white guy trying to act black. don't be fooled!
Oh, this is all good information about the blacks who had slaves. New information to me. As for the rest of it regarding time and reparation, perhaps you are right in feeling as you do. I can't honestly comment on something about which I have no first hand knowledge. I may be naive but I can't see someone going through so much trouble to use a fake avatar just to debate this subject. I think I'd best stay out of it.
well after a while you become atuned. it would be like a woman suddenly saying that women shouldn't receive chid support for her children from the father. your head would perk up and you would think" boy that sure is strange" and then watch a few other posts on different subjects and see for example her saying that women were just whining about equal pay or women are just taking up space by going to college and that they should just stay home etc then you would begin to suspect at least, something was wrong with her, right? well that's what i did and am all but certain that he is only using an avatar or he's been under a rock.
Joe B: “i soon realized [Twyler] didn't talk like a black person.”
I recall during OJ Simpson’s murder trial, Johnny Cockran (OJ’s black attorney) demanding to the judge that a witness (white person) not be allowed to testify to the jury that he (white person) believed a person he was talking to on the phone was black, because “he talked like a black person”. Yes, Cockran was trying to, and he succeeded in, bullying the judge on national TV by using the race card. This technique only works with White people. And those Blacks, like Joe, knows it works, and EXPECTS it to work. And as long as it works so successfully, it will continue to be used.
Joe B.: “reparations would start to make things right. on any scale in any court municipal,state federal. the victims would prevail, undoubtedly.i am not the only one that thinks”
Obviously Joe B. does not even realize he contradicted himself in this thread. Here’s what he said earlier:
Joe B: “i would say that the sooner everyone recognizes that it happened, eliminate the denial of it and treat it as history and don't tip toe around the subject (avoiding condesention),with anybody, things would be fine.”
No reparation demands here. He just wants white people to accept that “it happened”. However, one might be able to claim that indirectly Joe does refer to lack of deserved reparations in “it happened”. In Joe’s reasoning, the US gov’t in 1865 didn’t give every black male in America a very large sum of money as compensation for being a slave. And all problems in the black race in America would have been instantly, and to this very day, solved? Nothing but bliss in black America for over the 145 years? Sure Joe B.
Reparations would not be about helping your race elevate themselves to economic parity with the white population Joe. And you know it. It would simply equate to giving YOU and others in your racial group FREE money … and each and every one would spend it, and keep spending it until it’s gone, for personal uses - as opposed to benefiting their communities for the long run.
For example, 80 thousand black males who are going to be getting $50,0000 dollar checks any day now, (as Twyler pointed out) for simply “claiming” they wanted to be a farmer ( did you get yours Joe? C‘mon, tell the truth).. Yes, this is de facto REPARATIONS. IMO, these blacks should be buying farmland with that money - something which is sorely lacking among the black race in America. They won’t. Anyone with a functioning brain knows they won’t. All that money will go for personal wants and needs.
BTW, how many white people, or those from any other racial group in America, EVER received a $50,000 paycheck?!
I have read most of the posts, with a mixed review. However, I did notice some disagreements.
disagreements are good as long as they are constructive and all understand that sometimes we have to learn we are not going to change minds set in stone.
Personally, I was taught that you can like or dislike people as long as you can articulate a logical reason. Just due to outward appearences is not a logical reason.
Many years ago I was stationed in Japan. Like us Japan has many people with likes and dislikes based on outward appearence. While in Japan I was refused entry into clubs/bars due to my race. I had been taken by the arms, turned around, and walked out into the street and told to leave. It made me angry, but then I thought, they don't want anything to do with me it is their loss and moved on. Closer to home, in California I was refused service at a lunch counter and was told to leave a resturant. Both of these incidents were due to reasons other than my race but in niether case was it due to my actions other than being there.
Just a question regarding payment to the family members of slaves. When the governement freed the slaves were the slave owners paid, did their children and desendants get their inherratance? I don't know all the details but from family records it appeared that my family at one time was well to do and lost all their money when slaves were freed. Half the family stayed on the east coast and the rest moved into the mid west. In the late 40s they moved from the midwest to California to pick fruit, yes they were Okies. The area I grew up in there were only two groups, okies and Mexicans. We were all poor, and at times would fight. Not over race but over things.
It appears to me that race is just an excuse, the real reason is stuff. Those that have stuff don't want anyone to take their stuff. Those that do not have stuff want to blame other for their failure to get stuff. Just a note, stuff is unlimited you can make as much or as little stuff as you want. It all boils down to personal responsibility, based on our decissions in life. Also a little bit of personal observation, it has been my experiance that people judge others based on the way they themselves act. If I cheat and steal, I assume all people cheat and steal. If I am a racist, I assume others are racist.
Lastly, would we as Americans be different if we treated everyone the way we would like to be treated. If we met people with a smile and a good morning, instead of glares and frowns, would things change? I can only control myself, and I am responsible for what I do or what I failed to do. No one can make me or break me without my consent.
Terry - you nailed it. People judge others by their own nature. So the old adage, change yourself and you change the world, is true.
I think I need to become black to have a valid argument here.... now where did I put that lotion. Seriously, pointing fingers doesn't do any good. What are you all going to do about it if it is such a big issue that is still plaguing us? This conversation is about as helpful as hearing women discuss which hair color is the sexiest.
well then i ask you, what should be done? what is your solution?
Is there any way to force a human mind to see anything they don't want to see? If not, is it even rational to worry about what they see? Would it be ethical or moral to force people to change how they see things even if you could? What do you want people to see anyhow and would you be willing to submit to such vision yourself?
Jaggedfrost - "I want people to see and be seen, to see and not see. Our sacred skin makes a weak boundary between our souls and the world's hunger for our empathy. I want to move quietly down nightingale road, getting lost in the pockets of the city's long skirts. I want people to make a case for the poetry they imagine, to watch the petals of the lotus, the many which is one, to become the inside, with childlike senses new, to dream the world away, to stand without pain, to hallucinate, one heart at a time, living outside the wire and seeing Grace."
Couture, let not a man cry wolf except he pick up the sword to slay it. Let him be careful how he slays it least he become the wolf.
Texasbeta, as I said in one of your hubs, I believe you are a paid troll. Your avatar is also very suspicious looking - looks photo-shopped to me.
All your comments in this thread are meant to be seen as the defender of the unfortunate and completely helpless black man. You would PROUDLY stand in front of loaded guns and GLADLY take bullets meant for him (from racist whites). You crusade for him. You toil for him. You defend him against all odds. And you do all this … and ask not a single thing in return. Sure thing dude. Does NOT ring true to me. To be a white male (in Texas?) and literally campaigning, to point of servility , for black reparations and demanding white guilt - for everything that has failed in the black community - is just way over the top. As for me , I‘ve said nothing racist or even remotely suggesting white supremacy. Never have.
Also, your Jenna 6 defense, which ws retrieved from Wiki, should leave NO DOUBT of your completely one-sided agenda. People should go on Wiki and see how you deliberately distorted its content. And further, not an iota of compassion or sympathy from you for a 6 on 1 racist attack against a completely innocent white kid (first a sucker punch then stomping and kicking until unconscious). I’m ashamed to be in the same human race with you…
Incidentally, liberal org. (e.g. ADL , Southern Poverty Law ct.) pay trolls to bounce around the internet and pounce on anything that they observe to be white Christian or Republican. By and large, this is what you, mr. tex, do (and an obvious few others in this thread). Ergo, you are most likely a paid troll. How many other Hub names have you got Tex?
BTW, if indeed you are a white male, Joe Barnett believes all white people owe him for slavery. I would like you, mr. tex, to write a check right now to Joe for $1000...as a token down payment for all the suffering you’ve caused him (maybe Joe should give U a discount for being his sycophant). Then write the same amount checks to every other black on this site. You owe them. You admit you owe. Don't mock the black race (and Joe in particular). Pay up! Don't make me more ashamed of you than I already am.
Paranoid much? The poor put upon white male...
I've loved this thread!
Now, what'cha'll gonna do?
The "Browning-of-America" is at hand!
"White" will no longer be the majority in very short time.
Latinos will "rule" the land!
It all boils down to a very simple explanation i.e. "evolution!"
It is in full bloom!
The processes of "natural selection" can't be retarded.
If we, infantile creatures, can adapt to what "mother Earth" demands for a species to survive, I'd love to be here to witness an amalgamation of all our genetic programming!
The result could be a human creature that realizes it's 'sameness" and comes together in concert to guarantee its survival as a species.
All that I have read in this "thread" is just, part-and-parcel, of the movement of an unique species of natural life, which is profoundly involved in its evolution.
Interesting thread involving "SOME" thinkers! :-)
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