Trump: Is the UN just a rubber stamp of U.S foreign policy?

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   Credence2posted 6 years ago

   Someone needs to tell Trump that the United Nations is not rubber stamp of American Foreign Policy?
   -----Excerpt from a Guardian Article
   
   Donald Trump has threatened to withhold “billions” of dollars of US aid from countries which vote in favour of a United Nations resolution rejecting the US president’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
   
   His comments came after the US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, wrote to about 180 of 193 member states warning that she will be “taking names” of countries that vote for a general assembly resolution on Thursday critical of the announcement which overturned decades of US foreign policy.
   --------------
   The article is provided in the link below:
   https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 … salem-vote
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   I hate bullies and bullying and I abhor Trump and his approach to this matter.
   
   Is this the kind of stuff conservatives get behind? It is no wonder we progressives and conservatives/rightwingers will always remain light-years apart in anything and everything. You all like that Trump ‘get tough stuff” right?
   
   Is this your idea of patriotism and putting America first? This organization is not for sale, so from the outside I would tell America to take itself and its money out of the organization and good riddance. I am sure that the organization would prefer to maintain its autonomy rather than be a mere American puppet.
   
   I will not respect this nation under its current tyrannical leadership if as a result of its stepping away from the UN, it chooses to act unilaterally in international affairs. So, this is why Germany dropped from the League of Nations?
   
   It is the way of the rightwinger that you are patriotic only if you buckle under to THEIR definition of same, and being content with America usurping the role of UN for its own political agenda?
   
   Trump: what makes you right and the rest of the globe wrong? Does it just come down to America’s financial contribution, which gives you the prerogative to think that the  entire planet has to kiss your ‘a$$’? I want no part of that and consequently no part of you……..
   
   
   Your thoughts, please…

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      Randy Godwinposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Trump will long be associated with corruption after his notorious reign. He has divided our country and caused our allies to doubt our being the leader of the free world any longer. This arrogant liar has caused so much embarrassment to our country, I cannot imagine him finishing even one term. I sincerely hope Mueller will soon take him down.
      
      The UN vote shows how other countries view Trump and his empty threats. What a moron! 

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         ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         This country for one was divided way before Trump came along , Obama came to be much despised  by center and right ,  Your leftist media has done more to sabotage the American public and it's political trust , more than even any outside force ever has .   The United Nations has been a sword  in the side  of most Americans for three decades or more  and we pay for half of it's existence .
         
         But you ,like most alt -lefts , thing all history is all about today !
         Time to catch up , read a history book or two .

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            Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Ahorseback, do you really believe in Trump's approach, I mean really? Because America pays a large share of the operating costs does that mean the organization of 200 nations must give fealty to his royal highness, Trump the first?
            
            Are these the values you conservatives really expect us to buy in on? Did you bother to read the intro, what are your points to support Trumps approach as being the right approach?
            
            Are you capable of answering a direct question?

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               ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               If a direct and  personally - unloaded question is asked ? Yes   .   I say  this is an Israeli point to deal with initially , except that as a political entity Israel is under incredible pressure from it's neighbors , for it's very existence .    Let me ask you one ,Why doesn't the left support Israel , ever ?
               
               The media left always weaponizes it's conversations about Israel in terms of grossly throwing off the balance of the message ,perpetually ignoring the fact that Israel is generally under daily military attack from it's neighbors .
               Read your Israeli  history .

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                  Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  So, what do you mean by this is an Israeli point? Israel has always been under political pressure, since 1948, nothing new there.
                  
                  Trump in his latest move, providing a political victory to Israel by default when there are many contentious issues involved while dismissing the concerns of the Palestinians in the region in so blatant a way is certainly is not the answer.
                  
                  From my point of view, Israel is just another country, nothing more.
                  
                  There is a difference between being anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli foreign policy. Those on the extreme parts of your ideological side of the divide promotes the former, I the latter.
                  
                  I want an even handed solution to the problems in this region, not giving Israel everything it wants because Trump wants to appeal to the goofy and hypocritical fundamentalist Christian advocates.
                  
                  The left is for a negotiated settlement that appeals to both sides.
                  
                  I did my graduate thesis on this topic, and blamed America for being far too conciliatory toward Israel relative to the grievances and issues involved. I wrote that in 1976.  Under Obama, this matter was being addressed. But, under Trump the problems are being exacerbated as confirmed by the rest of the planet Earth, with only Israel, its stubborn Netanyahu and a few other nations with no skin in the game either way, supporting the US.
                  
                  So, I know few things about Israeli history, thanks all the same.
                  
                  So, how about my question, do you believe that Trump’s big-bully diplomacy is the correct course, if so why?

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                     ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes , I do !    Is that clear enough or do you want to pollute a simple answer with a couple of more paragraphs of B.S.?
                     
                     Answer this ; Do you live in a walled neighborhood where at times daily rockets land , knife attacks , explosive vests , bus explosions and violence are a fashion statement ? Have you ever ?   No , I didn't think so and you did  your graduate thesis on Israels daily reality of such ?   And  you earned a grade for such political naivete  ?    Goes to show you , in some  colleges it's profit over real education and that getting any education on the political realities of the day , matter very little .
                     
                     The treating of Israel by the U.S and so the U.N..... " like every other nation in the region " ?
                     Israel would be obliterated  in a week by Iran , Iraq or even Egypt as in 1967 attempts.

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                        Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        Temper, Temper…
                        
                        So, many rightwinger advocates (I won’t mention names) are superb Bullsh*t artists. They get frustrated when they run out of ideas after being confronted with information that is supported with factual data so they resort to puerile belligerency. But that is the way of the rightwinger, is it not?
                        
                        Israel has survived for 70 years within all this so called danger and threats, so this ‘flower in desert’ bullsh*t  I don’t buy.
                        
                        What is the basis of your REAL education, besides being a ventriloquist’s puppet for Trump?
                        
                        The complaint regarding you and your inability to stay on point is an accurate one.
                        
                        Not being willing to fairly negotiate with the Palestinians, a la Netanyahu is part of the reason the fear quotient is up and Israel has itself to blame. So why worry, are they not the only nuclear power in the region?
                        
                        So in the censure that Trump and the US received from virtually every nation on earth, why is Trump right and the rest of the world wrong?
                        
                        Is it just because Trump says so? If that is your answer, spare yourself a lot of grief and admit it…

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                           ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                           Credence , your political or ideologically naive' mentality  doesn't come near provoking my anger , my zeal for historical  reality is too strong for your shallow taunts , However you conveniently ignore political reality by your  ideological fantasy ,   Your Obama disaster tainted your vision , he and so you, sided with Islam on the middle eastern front , don't be ashamed of that . It was simple  ideological  belief's , however blind to 70 years of reality it was !
                           
                           I suppose the 67' war , where Egypt thought America's Viet -Nam would deter us or the UN from reacting too ,  was just a "fly in the soup" to your ".....treating Israel as an equal ".........in it's neighborhood ?    Henry Kissinger was brilliant in our middle entire history of eastern diplomacy , You should read just a small amount more of history.
                           
                           Do you know who declared   , "How does a high school diploma so often win out over all of this elitist academia and paper intelligence in political reality ? " 
                           Answer ?

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                              Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                              So that is how right wingers conservative think, giving more credibility to the intuition of a toddler over educated scholars in the field? It is no wonder that I cant see conservatives as any more than a waste of skin.
                              
                              We can debate the issue of Israel forever and we will not agree, I can guarantee that.
                              
                              But lets get to the point, while America has had many problems with the UN in regards to allowing Israel to take liberties in the international arena, you are going along with Trump saying to all the delegates of the UN, "vote my way and agree with me, or America will cut everybody off"?
                              
                              What if China or Russia just decided to march out of the UN over a censure, China could easily over Taiwan. Where is the source of this arrogance from conservatives in regard to what America does as if we are the only ones authorized to it. Is that what conservatives mean by American exceptionalism? Is it because we are America we can take exception to all the decorum that governs the behavior of any one else?
                              
                              The principle of bullying: is it a problem for you in general or is it acceptable only when America and Trump does it?

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                                 ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                 America is about the only nation strong enough to side with the Israelis , not care about the violent international reactions and even deal with the same collective ethnic hatred that those of you support and those like Hitler actually  fashioned.
                                 Islam hates the Jewish like  Hitler did , and our left in America .......?
                                 Well you tell me ? If ethnic hatred  "walks like a duck" ............?
                                 
                                 So , either you hate the Israeli's or you don't understand your own ideological confusion, ........which is it  ?

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                                    Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                    We shouldn't be siding with anyone. Our credibility with either side and in the world in general, depends on a sense of neutrality and not taking sides. Hitler has nothing to do with this, and it is sort of silly to bring his name into discussion is it not? Islam (nonradical) and Jews can coexist and unless you propose a war in the region they are going to have to figure out how to do this.  As the responsible superpower, clearly taking one side regardless of the merits is  foreign policy based on the rules of the  grade school playground is not going to cut it.
                                    
                                    Is that so difficult to understand? Conservative reasoning surely cannot be that 'simple"?

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                                       ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                       Not only America but every superpower in the world sometimes even underhandedly supports  "underdog "nations of the world , If we didn't, nations like Israel as you know them would have been destroyed  long ago by their enemies , Fact !
                                       Why did America get into WWI , WWII , ?   Same answer.
                                       
                                       To suggest we treat all nations diplomatically , economically , militarily equal is politically immature ,  The focus of international ,diplomatic protections has to be less than "equal " or pandemonium would rule the day .    Look at it as family in a home , do you treat all of the kids equally , what about a bullying situation , Is it any different ?
                                       Would you allow the bullying to continue as long as say , each kid uses only his own physical strengths ?
                                       
                                       It's no different !

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                                          Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                          One superpowers 'underdog' is another Superpower's bogeyman, how do we settle our differences with that kind of attitude? As for Israel's destruction, that is just a matter of opinion.
                                          
                                          Perhaps you need a stiff refresher in American history? WWI and WWII were entered into by the United States in response to direct attacks by the Triple Alliance and Axis Powers, respectively. Do you recall, unrestricted submarine warfare in 1917 and Pearl Harbor in 1941? Our sympathies were with the Allies in both cases prior to our entry into the war. While the US was more determined to remain neutral during WWI, resisting world domination as presented by one side, the Axis Powers, was hard to take a neutral stand upon.
                                          
                                          If we all take the attitude that were are going to push for 'our side', we guarantee our destruction eventually as lines cross.
                                          
                                          Lets look at the family in a home, I would treat all the kids equally allowing for differences in age and temperament, but I would not be unfair meaning treating one differently from the other without justification. I am not convinced that Israel is playing fair with the Palestinians and I have no reason to play favorites with Israel if they take the attitude that there will never be a fair settlement or not work toward that end. The whole world says as much in the UN censure.  I guess that a dolt like Trump is smarter than the entire planet? Bullying is morally incorrect regardless of your relative strength.

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                                             ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                             You who famously demands clear answers  certainly muddy the waters at every chance ,  As you recall , the Jews were ship bound , railroad car bound , Gulag  bound  , internment  camp  bound ,  concentration camp bound ,  floating in harbors even off the US .awaiting any one to accept them during and after the WWII ?   How soon however modern political correctness conveniently losses all memory .
                                             
                                             You're the ones desperately needing all help with your history lessons .
                                             
                                             The only reason the U.N. votes so collectively  safe is to not actually have to  inject any financial contributions to world solutions , That is always America's job ?
                                             
                                             The U.S. left ;You have five  physical bullies  in your six kid household , and how do you deal with it ?  Close the bedroom door where they are fighting ?

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                                                Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                                America makes allies from nations that are willing to play ball with us on the economic playing field, it is not about a moral position of correctness and fairness. Our history often attests to that. We have been in a pissing contest over Cuba for over half a century, why? Because Castro dared to remove American multinational companies from its country that contributed to exploitation of its society. But, because they did not play ball, they were declared as "Communist". The black population in New York celebrated Castro's arrival or visit  in 1959 to the ire of the Anglo police who could not understand the source of the adulation. But, we certainly knew why we believed Castro to be the bestest of the "most".
                                                
                                                With the issue of Netanyahu and illegal settlements yet to be resolved and until fairness is being brought into the equation, I am not in a hurry to just give Israel everything its wants That is made clear in the censure, even many of our staunchest allies voted against the U.S. The Canadians and Australians abstained from the vote, to avoid appearing to be a complete American puppets
                                                ----
                                                The U.S. left ;You have five  physical bullies  in your six kid household , and how do you deal with it ?  Close the bedroom door where they are fighting ?
                                                -----
                                                Fine let them fight it out until only one is standing. The problem with that analogy in the real world is it will ultimately mean nuclear war and the removal of the crust of this planet. Then who wins?
                                                ------
                                                The United States pays 22 percent of UN operating costs, do they get to dominate the entire assembly because of this? Who is paying the remaining 78 percent?
                                                
                                                I am well aware of the tragedy associated with the Jews over the last century, you did not have that much sympathy regarding slavery and similar forms of oppression, did you?

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                           Randy Godwinposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                           Congrats Cred, you managed get an answer fr0m horse. A naïve answer, but an answer just the same.

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                              Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                              Not so fast, Randy, this guy has still got plenty of 'bait and switch' and he will continue what he thinks are his clever diversions until he paints himself into a corner and he is almost there.

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                                 GA Andersonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                 Hi Cred, better put on a pair of old shoes, from here, it looks like ahorseback might have some company in that corner.
                                 
                                 GA

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                                    Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                    GA, you are a reasonable sort, what do you think about this issue and why?
                                    
                                    Don't tell me that you actually believe in bullying as a matter of diplomacy in this case? If you do then I guess I am in a corner from your perspective.

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                                       GA Andersonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                       Hi buddy, I hope you will be more careful with that "reasonable" thing in the future. I have a reputation to live down to.
                                       
                                       As for what I think about this issue, if you are referring to Pres. Trump's support for Jerusalem as Israel's capitol; as with other Trump threads - I will defer to time. Except to note that candidate Clinton, candidate Obama, and Pres. W. Bush, all publicly expressed the same support for the issue. The difference is that Pres. Trump has put deeds behind his words.
                                       
                                       On the other hand, if you are asking about the correctness of our historical support for Israel - I must hesitantly, (only because of your greater thesis knowledge of the issue) disagree with your apparent position.
                                       
                                       GA

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                                          Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                          Hi buddy, I hope you will be more careful with that "reasonable" thing in the future. I have a reputation to live down to.
                                          -------------------------
                                          I guess that is why you are red and I am blue. It is one thing to support something that the US has been pretty much keen on over some time in deference to Israel and political lobby here. It is quite another to do it, others did not do it perhaps because fear of the global reaction which is a justifiable fear. 
                                          
                                          I think that Israel has been playing us up for a lumbering giant and a sucker for a half a century, using American threats of mayhem to their adversaries to avoid their role in negotiating a fair settlement to those with whom they are in dispute.  I said that in 1976 and it has not changed much. We agree to disagree, but that is why I am blue and you, red.

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                                             GA Andersonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                             It looks like you have the Christmas spirit Cred. What else but spiked Egg Nog can explain your response?
                                             
                                             Red? You know I am a Purple. Remember when we picked the perfect shade for me in one of our Hawaii entitlements discussions?
                                             
                                             But the real corker is your first paragraph. It sure reads like you are saying it's okay to say you support something, but quite another to actually mean what you say. Whew! I can just see that one playing out.
                                             
                                             I think you just handed your buddy ahorseback a flame thrower. Quick, grab your asbestos underwear!
                                             
                                             GA

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   Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago

   We gave the Israelis nukes. I suppose it would be okay if Russia or China gave the Palestinians nukes as well. That may be what happens if Trump keeps driving our allies away with his stupid remarks and actions. Why do we have the right to arm another country with nukes and other superpowers don't.
   
   I don't really expect to get an answer from Trump aficionados, especially Fox watchers. All I'll get from them is talking points as they have no thoughts of their own.

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      ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Randy , Why does every allegation from you and your alt- left begin with a thought of America--hate? You  wouldn't dishonor your's or my  fathers WWII service by being so anti- US would you ? That every diplomatic  decision by our leaders has to somehow come from evil?  Aren't our allies worthy of defending ? Nuclear proliferation by whatever means was historically impossible after the first one was built , you would know that by reading a history book .
      
      Is that really the next Alt-left accusation in line for Trump Haters --he's spreading nukes again?

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         Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Randy , Why does every allegation from you and your alt- left begin with a thought of America--hate? You  wouldn't dishonor your's or my  fathers WWII service by being so anti- US would you ? That every diplomatic  decision by our leaders has to somehow come from evil?  Aren't our allies worthy of defending ? Nuclear proliferation by whatever means was historically impossible after the first one was built , you would know that by reading a history book .
         
         Is that really the next Alt-left accusation in line for Trump Haters --he's spreading nukes again?
         --------------------------------
         Seems like your bullsh*ting again, Ahorseback.?
         
         Why do we 'hate' America when we merely want to see it wield its great power fairly and impartially?
         
         What does any of that have to do with WW II service and servicemen?
         
         This 'decision' on the part of Trump and the administration to cut off those that do not agree with his arrogant style is stupid, evil and sheer madness as counterproductive to the max.
         
         I am certain that China and Russia, will say that their allies are worth defending as well, so what? Allies are not allowed to take advantage just because of that status.
         ---
         "Nuclear proliferation by whatever means was historically impossible after the first one was built , you would know that by reading a history book" ????????
         
         So, what is your point here?

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            ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            My point here , Is that you do not "equalize " diplomacy ! Pretty simple people . For instance ,Would you give the same amount of foreign aide to Dubai as you would say 
            the poorest country in the world ?  Would you give equal amounts of food aide to Cuba  as say Canada ?
            
            Randy , If Bullsh----ing was a popular milk drink , your alt- left would be entirely ballooned out of proportion.

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      Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      "I don't really expect to get an answer from Trump aficionados, especially Fox watchers. All I'll get from them is talking points as they have no thoughts of their own."
      --------------
      They can't answer as they believe in the old 20th century bromide 'might makes right'. It is so passé in a nuclear armed world. What makes Trump and the conservatives think that Russia or China is just going to stand aside while the US pursues its foreign policy objectives and steps on toes in the process? We cross too many of each others paths and WW III begins, conservatives are quick to put diplomacy into the waste can.  That is the purpose of the UN. I will hold rightwingers responsible for bringing the world just that much closer to "midnight".
      
      Trump takes the same attitude in everything he touches, he is a pig in promoting the "golden rule", he who has the gold rules, the niceties of democracy and consensus be damned.

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   ahorsebackposted 6 years ago

   Credence , Sometimes in foreign diplomacy , simply having the loudest voice in the room works . Especially in middle eastern politics .    One loudly spoken  gift from Trump  will set all of the otherwise rich idiots in turbans and robes back on their heels enough to make them think
   " We had better leave Israel alone today ". It is that simple and probably ends right there with anything about Jerusalem  changing . 
   
   As much as you hate him , Trump is a master at poker .
   
   The same rhetoric in all our presidents   is the" rubber stamp" that holds Israel together .

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      Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      That is bluffing and eventually, you will get called on your bluff. I think that Trump's bluster will just serve to inflame things further. Trump is not even smart enough to be a good bullshyte artist.

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         ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         I think you're wrong because , although he sure has you going nuts  , he's doing it in his own way ,  Just what ALL  U.S. Presidents have done .
         
         Credence , nice try , better go re-write that thesis?

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