Economic Slavery. Injustice. Greed.

1. 70

   faith-hope-loveposted 7 years ago

   What will you do to bring about the end of Economic Slavery. What can we do to end all injustice in 2018. How do you elininate all Injustice from the society/societies of to-day.

   replyreport
   1. 79

      wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      What are you calling "economic slavery"?  That one must work to earn what they want?
      
      You will never eliminate all injustice from society, any society.  Don't forget that it is not justice to the ones giving, only to the ones taking.

      replyreport
      1. 70

         faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Wilderness. When one works to put Bread on the Table and the income that one earns is not enough to cover that bread or the roof over one's head. Are they working for themselves or to make richer the rich. You your self can, I am sure, determine what you would call Economic Slavery. I leave that to your own determination  What do you think it would be?  Extortionate Interest Rates Charged by Credit Card Companies!!  Extra Fees By Banks!! Poverty Level Wages!! Sex Slaves!! Slave Labour in the (So Called) Third World!! People who have different beliefs from you!! There are many forms that I could put the title to. I leave that to the individual to decide.  I have an interest on what you think which may give some insight into the thought process.

         replyreport
         1. 79

            wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Then "economic slavery" is that some people do not have salable skills, or cannot sell what they have for as much money as they want to get?  Or that it means a personal choice to own a credit card, using it stupidly?  That one voluntarily uses a bank account, then runs up fees and doesn't doesn't think the bank has a right to enforce their contract?
            
            (I have a half dozen credit cards, but haven't paid a dime in interest or fees in many years.  I have several bank accounts and haven't paid anything for them in decades.  If you're not smart enough to use your credit or bank account wisely then don't get one.)
            
            Yes, there are sex slaves.  And slave labor in other countries.  Yes, there are different beliefs.  None of which constitutes "economic slavery" IMO.
            
            My thought is that the term will always be in use because greed will never die.  Some people will always declare that they are worthy of receiving what they did not earn.

            replyreport
            1. 70

               faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Wilderness I detect just a little bit of the capitalist in you and a just a little bit of self righteousness. However I do welcome the above remarks as they may pull in some other thinkers to the forum and just maybe we will finally get a sense of what can be done. Those keeping sex slaves are doing it to make money earning off use of other human beings. As for Credit cards I would be tempted to agree with you to a point but you have left out the actions of the high powered sales tactics used by those same companies. They are our present day net casters to catch the Fish. Thank you for your input. I think it suggests Better education of the masses in the Handling of their Finances. Or

               replyreport
               1. 79

                  wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  What you are doing is suggesting that people are not responsible for their own foolish actions - that they must be protected from themselves as we protect children from themselves.
                  
                  Very simply put, I disagree.  People ARE responsible for their actions, not some mythical "high powered salesman" that puts an ad on their FB screen.  Not the "salesman" that offers a loan that they cannot afford to make payments on.  Not the employer that offers to pay them for the value of their work instead of what they need to live an easy life. 
                  
                  There is a LOT of capitalist in me, but there is even more about being free, about being responsible for self, and about accepting that responsibility rather than blaming someone else for our own failure.

                  replyreport
                  1. 70

                     faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Ask yourself just how free one is in our present organised society. While i do agree with you about the responsibilty of the individual. I do see that wages are not paid, in a lot of cases that allow the same lower income person to put food on the table. I am not speaking of living in luxury, just the mininum, to be able to pay for a Roof, Heating, and food. A Living Wage. Thanks again.

                     replyreport
                     1. 79

                        wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Is a company responsible for paying a "living wage" for a family of 6 for a part time employee pushing a broom?
                        
                        Somehow the value of what is being sold (the result of labor) is being determined by the needs of the employee rather than the production of that employee, and that is simply not realistic.

                        replyreport
                        1. 61

                           Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           You are being unrealistic. I don't think anyone expects full time wages to be paid to part time workers.
                           
                           But, someone has to make the fries. That person should be able to live decently on that wage. Prices go up. Income stagnates. Company profits soar. Nothing about this seems off balance to you?

                           replyreport
                           1. 79

                              wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              Labor costs go up.  Prices inevitably follow or the company goes under.  And the lower paid employee once more cannot afford to support multiple people.
                              
                              Does that seem "balanced" to you?  Long term useful?  Or is that fry maker single, living with his/her parents or multiple roommates, without other expenses, and quite able to eat and keep out of the rain?
                              
                              But beyond that, can you point to a single company, commonly paying minimum wage yet making 10, 15, 20% ROI?  Or even over 5% net profit?  Profits don't "soar" from minimum wage jobs; it soars from sudden, massive demand, and such demand typically results in increased competition which results in increasing wages.
                              
                              (And yes, I think faith-hope-love does think a single minimum wage job (part time was probably over the top)  should support a family, and do it regardless of size.)

                              replyreport
   2. 81

      patchofearthposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Jesus said the poor would always be with us. Poverty, to me seems an indication that something in society is out of whack. If Jesus told us that we would never get it right, then there is probably no hope. He did, however, also tell us to be kind to one another. So, I guess, you just do the best you can where you are in your individual relationships.
         People in the U.S. think that terms like socialism and communism are dirty words. On paper they are actually beautiful ideas. Communism is a term that was actually coined to define utopian society. The idea is that everyone works together for the good of the whole. It's a beautiful idea.
        Socialism, similarly is a nice idea. It says that we should all chip in for the resources that we all use like roads and schools (and, hey, why not hospitals?).
        The reason people are so terrified of those terms these days, the reason these ideas have not worked in the past, is because they were overseen by dictators.
         On paper a lot of things are nice ideas. But on paper no one takes into account the human element. Humankind is inherently flawed. Many people can not handle power. There are many, many people will try to cheat their neighbor because they think it makes them clever, because they think it's funny, because they think that is what they have to do to survive, because greed or ego get the best of them, because they see something they want and find some way to reason why it is okay to take it from someone else. The list goes on and on. Only one thing is for sure. Legislation will never fix humankind. Until enough individual humans decide to be better and really understand what that means, there will always be slavery and injustice in the world. Until such time, we are just sticking our fingers in the  dike and watching in frustration as the next leak appears.

      replyreport
      1. 0

         Dabby Lyricposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         ABSOLUTELY! You nailed it and I couldn't have said it better myself!
         
         God bless you and yours.

         replyreport
      2. 70

         faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Patchofearth.  You have nailed to some degree what I am after. You have most certainly nailed it as (Dabby Lyric) has said. Has anyone ever Read the book titled  "The Capitalist Manifesto". It was written I believe around the Late 1800s though I cant be sure of the date. It certainly put a very different shine on the way we see capitalism practiced to-day.  Thanks for your input.

         replyreport
   3. 0

      Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Eradicate socialism.

      replyreport
      1. 70

         faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Onusonus. You have been taken by the propaganda as preached by to-day's Capitalists. It is obvious that you have never really looke at the promise of the theory of Socialism and that promise matches the words in the "BOOK" I have mentioned earlier.

         replyreport
         1. 0

            Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            There's a better book, called wealth of Nations. It actually works in practice. Yours doesn't.

            replyreport
            1. 82

               Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               This HubPages Topical Forum Contributor is not from the US. And that fact should explain his point of view. Our Country tried socialism/communism in the beginning and found that it didn't work. What the US has under The Constitution is the Best in The World. Only those who live here can appreciate it fully. We know freedom. We knew it better in the past. Hopefully, we will proceed toward the restoration of our Freedom within the boundaries of Law and Justice. What is destroying our freedom is over taxation, over regulation, over fining, over fee-ing, back room deals and bailouts from Washington to Wall Street. We need to stop the corruption. We need to to stand up for our rights.
               Not give them away for the sake of some pie in the sky scheme of equality of outcome rather than of opportunity. 
               As always.

               replyreport
               1. 69

                  psycheskinnerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I live here and it works okay.  But I have lived in other places where things like healthcare for poor people worked a lot better.  Have you  lived outside the US in a socialist democracy?

                  replyreport
                  1. 82

                     Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     I vacationed in Ensenada where I stayed on a campground right on the beach. We could ride horses on the beach, have campfires on the beach and I totally enjoyed the freedom and beauty of this part of Mexico. But I also knew the underlying reality: We had come to bring hand-me-down clothing and furniture to the poor. Many are in dire need and live in poverty.
                     
                     My daughter visited Costa Rica which has excellent health care, which she benefited from while there. Nevertheless, why live there? The "benefits" of bad roads, bad transportation, few jobs, high taxes and high crime. (A friend of mine had a nephew who went to Costa Rica on a High school trip. He came home in a body bag. His body had been found down a steep ravine.)
                     
                     Wherever taxes are high, the crime rate is also high: Why is that do you suppose????
                     
                     … and you, as we know, are a transplant, as well.
                     
                     
                     "There are many modes of transport in Costa Rica, but the country's infrastructure has suffered from a lack of maintenance and new investment. There is an extensive road system of more than 30,000 kilometers, although much of it is in disrepair; this also applies to ports, railways and water delivery systems. According to a 2016 U.S. government report, investment from China which attempted to improve the infrastructure found the "projects stalled by bureaucratic and legal concerns …."
                     
                     "Costa Rica's ports are struggling to keep pace with growing trade. They have insufficient capacity, and their equipment is in poor condition. The railroad didn't function for several years, until recent government effort to reactivate it for city transportation. An August 2016 OECD report provided this summary:
                     
                     "The road network is extensive but of poor quality, railways are in disrepair and only slowly being reactivated after having been shut down in the 1990s, seaports quality and capacity are deficient. Internal transportation overly relies on private road vehicles as the public transport system, especially railways, is inadequate." Wikipedia
                     
                     PS Both of these countries are listed as Republics where the "Presidency is independent of legislature, (as is the US,) but they operate in a socialistic manner. The only self-declared socialistic countries are China, Cuba, Laos and Vietnam.
                     
                     PSS California has not declared itself a socialistic state yet!! < LOL!!!!
                     
                     !

                     replyreport
                     1. 70

                        faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        I believe we have a high Crime Rate in the U S and Canada as well. Tax rates are they high or Low.

                        replyreport
                  2. 0

                     Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Cuba's got free health care.

                     replyreport
               2. 61

                  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree that our constitution is the framework for a most just and free society however it,like any system of laws, can be manipulated into actions being legal, yet contrary to the spirit of intent.
                  
                  As to the nation the OP hails from; we need to look to the example of the founding fathers. Theirs were not original ideas but the ideals many had striven for and not achieved. We were the great experiment. Looking to our ideals should be our goal. Not doggedly insisting our current system is as was intended. Our current system is, by my estimation, a bastardization of those original ideals. And the nature of our global economy ensures that bastardization is felt by almost all.

                  replyreport
            2. 70

               faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               I think You should re-read the Book "Wealth of a Nation" by "Adam Smith" an english farmer.  But also read the books by Keynes.  Both of them are said to be the Fathers of Modern day economy. The Book "The Capitalist Manifesto" was written by an American and should have been added to the curriculum of or for the study in economics. I did find that Adam's book very informative and did generate some Thought. Which is what all good books are intended to do. One must always keep in mind the spirit of any work of Art such as "The Constitution". Treasure it but keep the spirit of this work to the forefront of your mind.  Thanks. I read these books more than sixty years back.

               replyreport
   4. 61

      Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      As unpopular as the thought may be, I think we will eventually have to accept that the imbalances of our system must be addressed.
      
      I'm sorry. At my age, having seen what I have, the only way for the masses to prosper is to recreate an environment where work can produce prosperity. Where wages are not rising at a lower rate than the effective inflation rate for the average person. Where amoral business practices are not thrown out as examples to emulate, at the expense of those who do theactual work for these businesses.
      
      The populace would be better off and better able to ponder the adverse ramifications of excessive spending on social programs if they weren't struggling to live in an environment where mass consumption was the agreed upon norm and the engine that fueled the massive exchange of wealth. The slow draining of wealth into the upper echelons has strangled the American dream.

      replyreport
      1. 70

         faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Live To Learn.  It seems that you and I have both lived a very long life. What you have written matches my own experiences. What you have written does match what I have advocated all of my life. Having seen abject poverty every part of the world I have been to or worked in, also the very, very deliberate machinations of the richer folks that increase the numbers of the deprived in our so enlightened world. I agree with you . Thank you a lot..

         replyreport
   5. 86

      GA Andersonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Hello faith-hope-love, it is always good to see a new voice in these forums, and I have been following you topic thread.
      
      Your responses to comments leave me wondering if you aren't interested more in a philosophical discussion than an actual specific remedy discussion.
      
      I would guess that you are aware of the inferences usually assumed when such buzz phrases as "economic slavery," and social "injustice," (in your context), are used.
      
      I think you are right that pure socialism has never been implemented in a society yet, but I think that is because our societies are of humans, and the reality of present-time human nature just isn't amendable to the requirements of pure socialism - in my opinion of course.
      
      I see that the points I would make have already been made;, so to gain understanding I would ask you some questions:
      
      "What do you determine "Economic slavery" to be?
      Are you placing the value of a wage as the needs of the wage earner, or the value of the work provided by the wage earner?
      Do you think a society can be all winners, (responsible self-efficient participants), without any losers, (low-ambition, low efficiency, etc. participants)?
      
      If a pure socialist society is not yet, (or ever, when human nature is involved), possible, what would your responses be to the questions you posed?
      
      Answering your questions as philosophical what ifs? would be an interesting conversation, but answering them in the context of our reality would be more like discussing a pipe-dream.
      
      GA

      replyreport
2. 69

   psycheskinnerposted 7 years ago

   Socialism works fine in the past present and future in terms of health care  if you look at the working examples of socialist democracies like most of Scandinavia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and Canada.  They are not utopias but critical health care is free to the consumer and cheaper for society at large under a single payer system.  No one pays more of their GDP on healthacare than the US.

   replyreport
   1. 70

      faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      psycheskinner. You do make a valid point but even in those economies it can be said that Socialism falls short of the promise. They, too, have High and less than acceptable levels of Societal inequality. Please keep thinking and adding your voice.

      replyreport
3. 81

   patchofearthposted 7 years ago

   I've heard that. I've heard that we pay twice as much as Canadians and they receive better out comes. I wish we did have health care. I think it would benefit society greatly.

   replyreport
4. 78

   Wesman Todd Shawposted 7 years ago

   Wow, such a massive and totally original virtue signal you've beamed into the Hubpages forums. I'll bet you really feel a jolt of righteousness for espousing the end to global injustice for all the rest of human history. What a paragon of wonder you must be.
   
   Hey, I got an idea, how about you just be the change you want to see in the world. Oh, you mean other people don't share your exact values? Aw, that's so sad.

   replyreport
   1. 70

      faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Wesman todd Shaw....
      Your Sarcasm adds nothing to any solution nor is it helpful in any way. It is I guess your inability to take part in any way that does not make you feel a lot more superior to us ordinary simpletons. If you cannot take part in an open discussion in an honest way; Then don't.

      replyreport
      1. 78

         Wesman Todd Shawposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         And I bet you think working for a living is economic slavery. And you probably wonder why you're met with sarcasm. Did you suggest sarcasm was dishonest? By what objective standard is sarcasm dishonest?
         
         I noticed you jumped right over my notion that you should be the change you want to see in the world. It's dishonest to suggest doing anything if you aren't doing it yourself.

         replyreport
         1. 70

            faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            You should have checked before you wrote the last piece of wisdom. I have been trying to help the poor in many ways and have done so no matter where I was. Yes I am already trying to solve a lot of the problems they meet with. So I need some helpful Input.  Sarcasm is in my experience used by a lot of people who have nothing to contribute. There is a saying "That Sarcasm is the lowest Form of Wit" but this is also offset by what Should be added with it "Satire is the Highest Form of it" then there Is"It takes a wise person to determine which is which" You have to determine which Form you meant to use. Give some Honest input to the discussion. Something that may be helpful. That is what I hoped for.

            replyreport
            1. 78

               Wesman Todd Shawposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               I've contributed to much already. All I see you saying in this post is, 'look at me.'

               replyreport
5. 80

   incomeguruposted 7 years ago

   People need to know their rights: access to education, access to adequate housing, access to water and sanitation, access to economic opportunities and so on. And policymakers should ensure that the marginal people are allowed to participate in decisions as they affect their livelihoods. Therefore, we need inclusive policies, efficient institutions, and sustainable planning approaches.

   replyreport
   1. 70

      faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      income guru. You have added something of Value to the discussion. Keep coming.  God Bless.  Thanks

      replyreport