It's about time ! One positive aspect of either deliberate or non-deliberate boycotting ?
Great, so if the players choose not to participate in the anthem at all (all of them) by staying the locker rooms that is OK for you as a compromise?
Rightwingers should be happy with that....
This is not "compromise " it is showing basic respect for al majority ofother people , Can't do it ? Stay away from the ceremony.
Can't do that - pay the fine .
Suggestion ; get over it .
When protesting the players simply won't be there for the anthem, but their absence is a form of non-compliance and as small minded as rightwingers are, it will stick in their craw.
Personally, I would take it as a very strong statement that the players in the locker room do not respect our flag, our anthem or the nation for which they stand. Bad enough to show disrespect and then say "It was not disrespect; I just wanted that particular time slot to protest", but when they refuse to recognize our flag at all, well, it says a lot more about what it was actually about. The nation that has given them so much, they will turn their backs on and figuratively spit on.
Recognizing that there are a few bad apples in every bag, I will likely watch football this year, after a year without turning it on. Unless the numbers of "disrepecting" players becomes large enough to put their attitude onto the team as a whole.
But at least no one can see the protest and be "offended" by players not standing respectfully in public during the anthem. Like Pense said, is that not a win?
bringing attention to certain issues is not akin to hating the country. I live here as well, but it does not mean that I don' t have my beefs and concern about how this things are perceived and being done.
"bringing attention to certain issues is not akin to hating the country."
Unless that "issue" is respect for the country - at that point the question of hating the country that supplies us with "life liberty and pursuit of happiness" most definitely comes into being.
I don't know about a "win", but it is certainly an improvement over raw disrespect in order to get media attention.
Are you not satisfied with this outcome? As I said our "realities" are quite different, many of us are not always eternally grateful and full of effervescent praise regarding this society.
Sure! I said I would once more turn on a football game...unless the number of players intentionally disrespecting our country becomes large enough to "incriminate" a whole team.
(Went to a high school graduation ceremony last night. The anthem was played while the flag was marched in by a color guard. Not a single person I was took that short period to turn their back, to kneel in disgust, to disrespect our country. Not a single person decided that media attention was more important than their respect for the country that produced 300 graduates. With the only exceptions being a couple of 2-year olds in the front row that played on the floor.)
But when that protest for whatever reason affects the profit margin of the business -- of the NFL-- , The NFL owners can then alter that opportunity to "protest ", like any business that demands accountability of its employees.
I guess only the likes of public servants , government employees who're never accountable for their tenured behavior and related performance can get away with affecting "business profits" ?
I'm not surprised some people don't get this .
They protest by not being present for the ceremony, no disrespect seen, no profits lost. Is that still a problem for you?
We are all and were accountable for our behavior regardless for who it is we work for, so you can come down from Mt. Olympus, now...
You and I both know someone's probably still going to take the knee , justifying it by free speech rights , business profits be darned . Fire them all and start over I say . That's not from mt. Olympus , that's from a businessman who understands how personal performance and accountability by employees affects profit margins greatly .
I am willing to work with the new rule, as long as you don't force players to give this deference if they do not feel it appropriate.
If I have to send a message or the group does, make your total absence as obvious as your presence would have been at the ceremony.
Let's face it , it's all about celebrity attention disorder , The " Look at me I'm a hero " complex . For me it's a little hard to" see "a 50 million dollar contract salaried celebrity as a serious social justice warrior ? Yes ,everyone deserves an opinion and a voice , and we all -also can be fired for affecting the bosses pocket book .
Its the way of conservatives to think to believe that just because one has relative wealth he cannot empathize with plight of the little people. Many great leaders in our history have been such people. It is only Trump and his model that cast dispersions on this concept.
Some like the right to protest, but not those they disagree with. By the way, one owner has already stated he would cover the fines if his players chose to act on their constitutional rights.
Talking about a real patriot!!
Hi Wilderness, I am wondering if I am misunderstanding your point. I don't think respect has to be unconditional to still be respect. It sounds more like you are saying the object of respect can do no wrong.
I am missing the connection between disrespect and hating also -- for the same reason. I like the new rule. The players still get to convey their message, just not in such an in-your-face way.
It's not a lack of respect that bothers me; it is active disrespect. It's the message "I don't like you and shall not acknowledge any good in you". A protest says "I see something wrong we should work on", but that's not the message I get from disrespecting our country.
I rather like it (the new rule) as well. It says the same thing, admittedly, but it is not so in-your-face about it. It can be more easily ignored.
I think a more distinct message should have been sent, such as 'protest off the clock'. This particular item, as presented on the site I read it, seems petty and intrusive. If it doesn't specifically reference the over reaching problem with the action, it appears to simply address the action,itself. So, if other protests aren't specifically prohibited I don't see how this one can be.
I find kneeling during the anthem as offensive as the next person, but if you allow protests on the field in other forms I find banning this form,only, as problematic.
You're avoiding the interfering in the economics of a corporate entity , NFL is a business , not a public opinion column . Do you think it would be okay to stop a commuter train on the tracks and protest " I hate trains " ? Would it be okay then to march out into LAX stopping the traffic and protesting mass pollution without courtroom antics ?
I think the NFL is saying ,Call your congressman [woman ] , write an opinion column , sent a check to PETA , or Greenpeace but stay out of ours and everyone else's pockets .
LOL. Avoiding interfering in the economics of a corporation? How so? My opinion is that protests, of any kind, are not appropriate during work hours. I wouldn't get paid if I made a public protest while working. Why should they? They step onto the field as representatives of the company they work for. They should, during that time, represent the corporations they work for. Not use the venue to stand on their individual soap box.
So, again, what part of my comment went over your head? I don't see my position as advocating standing in front of trains, planes, automobiles, charging lions or landing aliens. Unless, you do it during non work hours.
No , we actually agree ! I say they ARE interfering in the running of the business end of the NFL , If they are getting paid a salary for playing Football and performing as paid , they are obviously hurting the profit , why else other than the drop in "business " do you believe the Corporate NFL is laying down the law ? In other words they are hurting the profit lines protesting , then players should suffer the consequences . It's the same as a surley store clerk chasing customers out the door at the hardware store , fire him if it persists ?
Take a knee in the parking lot after the game time .
Bottom line and from the very beginning ,Fact - If you cannot own enough basic humility , respect for others , understanding of others , to respect the standing for the national anthem ?
Then you don't earn the same from others for YOUR causes .
THAT is where the left forfeits all respect from others , once it was the national anthem that was the glue that joined, not the separator .
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