What is the Status of Minority Nations in Your Country?

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  1. Nathanville profile image86
    Nathanvilleposted 6 years ago

    We have 5 officially recognised ‘national minority nations’ in the British Isles; Scotland, Ireland, Isle of Man, Wales and Cornwall (All Celtic Nations).  Following more than 15 years of peaceful campaigning by Cornish people, Cornwall was granted ‘National Minority Status’ by the British Conservative Government (using EU Laws) in 2014.

    •    The Isle of Man (with its own Government), although part of the British Isles is not part of the UK, but is a Crown Dependency.

    •    Scotland is pressing for Independence from the UK, with a view to join the EU.

    •    The people of Northern Ireland, under the terms of the 1998 Peace Treaty, have a legal right of ‘self-determination’ e.g. the right for re-unification with the Republic of Ireland, if that is the ‘will of the people’ (Referendum); which is the prime objective of Sinn Fein.

    •    Wales is officially a bilingual country with its ‘first language’ being Welsh, and with English being its 2nd language (Welsh being a Celtic Language).  The Welsh Government’s policy (Plaid Cymru) is also for Independence from the UK, and to join the EU.

    As with the Isle of Man, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales all have their own Parliament, and Government; albeit the Parliament of Northern Ireland hasn’t sat for 2 ½ years due to a spat between Sinn Fein and DUP.

    Cornwall, as a part of the UK with a fledgling ‘National Minority Status’, has a long way to go yet before it flexes its muscles; but who knows what the future holds.

    This video was part of the campaign by Cornish people in 2012 fighting for ‘National Minority Status’:- https://youtu.be/-nN9I_7djgo

    And this was the day in 2014 when ‘National Minority Status’ was granted to Cornwall: - https://youtu.be/vmzA8v3H5nw

    Native Indians in the USA
    My interest in the question is that in the UK, neither on TV or in the News Media, we don’t hear anything meaningful about the status of Native Indians in the USA; it’s almost as if they don’t exist.

    I have raised this question with Americans in email correspondence, but the answers have always been evasive! 

    Therefore, what is the status of native Indians in the USA, and what do Americans think and feel on the subject?

    1. wilderness profile image76
      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      The status of Indians in the US is that they are Americans just as all the rest of us, with some special privileges granted.  They may, for example, operate gambling casinos on their own land, where very few states allow other citizens to do so, and then only under the strictest state supervision.

      Technically, our states could be considered "minority nations", as our constitution was set up as a republic of states, but the reality is that they are not, and neither are Indians.

      1. Nathanville profile image86
        Nathanvilleposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Thanks for your feedback wilderness, it sounds as if native Indians have integrated into American society better than the British Celtic Nations have succumbed to English Rule!

    2. Live to Learn profile image69
      Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I don't consider this a valid comparison. I'd find a question comparing the current situation of the Maori to First Nation's status. The groups you call minority nations live on the land they originally did prior to the conquests.

      1. Nathanville profile image86
        Nathanvilleposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        I’m not quite sure I follow; I would be grateful if you could clarify your point e.g. Native American Indians are the indigenous people of America settling there thousands of years ago; and likewise the Celts are the indigenous people of the British Isles, occupying it long before the Roman invasion and occupation of England (except for Cornwall) 2,000 years ago.

        My wife who is half Irish has 40% Celtic genes, and with my paternal and maternal ancestors settling in South West England after 1066 (just 25 miles from the Welsh border), it turns out that I too have 18% Celtic genes (when we did the Ancestry DNA tests).

        1. Live to Learn profile image69
          Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          My point is basically indigenous tribes weren't and aren't treated the same as conquered nations which suffered no diaspora. The conquered remained in place, inter married, etc. As evidenced by your and your wife's genes. First nation people and Maori lost their lands and lived separated until recently. The Scottish drive for independence, I assume, encompasses historical land mass. Native American lands do not encompass claims made on land area previously populated and are usually not anywhere near their ancestral homes.

          Comparing the two is like comparing the Scottish history and current attempt at self rule to the aborigines in Australia. They lost their lands and were marginalized much longer and more recently than any Scot.

          1. Nathanville profile image86
            Nathanvilleposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks for the clarification; Ireland is probably closer to your angle e.g. Until the Irish civil war in the 1920s the Irish were displaced, 2nd class citizens that didn’t have the same legal rights as the occupying Brits.

            For clarity, I wasn’t trying to make a comparison between British Celts and Native American Indians (I guessed there would be more differences than similarities), I was just trying to learn and understand the American Culture in relation to the indigenous population a little more; and using the Celts just as an ice-breaker to a topic for which I know little about.

            So your comments have been greatly appreciated.

            1. Live to Learn profile image69
              Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              I hope you understand. This is, to me, a typical white privilege foolishness. Your question, to me, is impossible and insulting on some levels, to the idea of the native American experience. You can't compare a Scot who has minority nation status to a native American.   

              What happened in Europe was Europeans fighting for dominance. What happened to the native American would be better compared to an alien invasion where the human population ended up being carted off to Antarctica after global warming thaws it out. Living by our standards while the aliens were vastly superior technology and their society was completely different. We could completely lose our culture and assimilate or live in isolation with no hope of advancement because we had been removed from all of our resources.

              Being given minority nation status under such circumstances would seem ridiculous.

              1. Nathanville profile image86
                Nathanvilleposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Thanks for your clear message 'Live to Learn'; I hear you.  Rest assured I have no intention of comparing European Culture with American Culture; I am fully aware they are like chalk and cheese.

                My original question was:

                "...what is the status of native Indians in the USA, and what do Americans think and feel on the subject?" (intended as a simple and innocent question).

                Both wilderness and IslandBites have given their answers, which has been very helpful in giving me some insight into that part of the American Cultural Heritage.

              2. DrMark1961 profile image99
                DrMark1961posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Yes, I am so sure those Irish farmers were happy they were white when they lost their land, were forced to survive on almost nothing, and lost their freedom to the English.

                1. Live to Learn profile image69
                  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  They do inhabit their ancestral lands now. Correct?

                  I'm not attempting to downplay historical suffering. Simply pointing out that the circumstances and outcomes are so vastly different as to make comparison difficult.

                  Edit. I am related to residents of Ireland who still remember the jack boot of English rule.

                2. Castlepaloma profile image76
                  Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Many people still refer to Irish, Scottish, and Welsh as Celtic culture. There was a horrendous ancient history with the English. Yet Compare to native greatest gencide being human history, they were not as bad.

                  The Celts came off with country of their own wail Native got reservations.

                  The Celts likely who migrated from central Europe around 500BCE. Keltoi was the name given by the Ancient Greeks to a 'barbaric'

                  Native American had civilization par to Babylon an Egyptian. Mexico city was larger than any city in Europe.

                  I give Native the brownie for the worst hardship.

                  1. DrMark1961 profile image99
                    DrMark1961posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    I think you need to do a litte more reading. They were just as bad.
                    None of these people got a brownie.

                  2. Nathanville profile image86
                    Nathanvilleposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    As previously stated, I have no desire to make comparisons as they are two different (and unrelated) histories.  I do have a rudimentary understanding of Native American Indians from all the old cowboy and Indian films; but what I was hazy on is their present day situation!

                    But DrMark1961 is correct in asserting that the Celts were treated as barbarically by the Romans as the Indians were by the Americans.

                    Prior to the rise of the Roman Empire (Italy), the Celts were warring ‘Tribes’ living in mud huts who occupied most of Europe, with primitive weapons (compared to the Romans). 

                    The Romans called them ‘Gallli’ and the Greeks called them ‘Keltoi’; both words mean barbarians.  However, one aspect of Celtic culture which I admire is that women were equal to men; something the Romans despised because under Roman Culture women were 2nd class citizens.

                    Over the course of several centuries the Romans wiped out the vast majority of the Celts culture across the whole of Europe, save for the north western region of France, and the extremities in the British Isles.  Across the whole of Europe, the Celts who didn’t succumb to Roman Rule where killed (including woman and children), or fled.

                    In Britain, hundreds of thousands of Celts (including woman and children) were killed and massacred by the Romans.  Countless numbers of battles raged as the Romans gradually spread their empire across Britain, halting at the border between England and Scotland because the Celt tribes in Scotland proved too much of match, even for the Romans; hence the Romans building Hadrian’s Wall between England and Scotland in 122AD.

                    Two of the more famous battles between the Romans and the Scottish Celts were:-

                    •    The Battle of Mons Graupius, Scotland, in AD83; where 360 Romans were killed, and 10,000 Scots were killed, and

                    •    The Battle of Caledonia, Scotland, in c210AD, where 50,000 Romans died, and 30,000 Scots were killed.

                    But the most famous battle of all in Britain was the Battle of Watling Street.  Watling Street was a road built by the Romans, stretching from London (the capital of the Roman Empire in England) to the border between England and north Wales. 

                    Under occupied Britain, the Iceni tribe had a peace treaty with Rome.  The Iceni Tribe living just north of London.  When the Iceni tribal leader died, under Celtic law his tribe passed to his wife (Boudicca); but because she was a woman the Roman Empire didn’t recognise her rights as tribal leader, and tried to seize her lands.  Consequently she led her tribe into battle against the Romans, along with another Celtic Tribe that followed her (an estimated 230,000 warriors); and they wiped out the Roman Legion who was not prepared for the uprising.  Then Boudicca and her tribe marched on London, where they ransacked it and burnt it to the ground; massacring the inhabitants of London (80,000 men, women and children).

                    Eventually, the Romans marched their Armies from the border with North Wales, along Watling Street back towards London, where they eventually met Boudicca and her tribes for a decisive battle; where only about 400 Romans were killed, while an estimated 80,000 Celtic warriors, along with their women and children were slaughtered.  Boudicca escaped the battle, but subsequently took poison before the Romans could track her down.

                    Battle of Watling Street (60/61 AD) - Celtic Iceni vs Roman Empire:  https://youtu.be/ydmWUfTpwSo

  2. IslandBites profile image67
    IslandBitesposted 6 years ago

    Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution vests Congress, and by extension the Executive and Judicial branches of our government, with the authority to engage in relations with the tribes, thereby firmly placing tribes within the constitutional fabric of our nation. When the governmental authority of tribes was first challenged in the 1830's, U. S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Marshall articulated the fundamental principle that has guided the evolution of federal Indian law to the present: That tribes possess a nationhood status and retain inherent powers of self-government.

    A federally recognized tribe is an American Indian or Alaska Native tribal entity that is recognized as having a government-to-government relationship with the United States, with the responsibilities, powers, limitations, and obligations attached to that designation, and is eligible for funding and services from the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

    Furthermore, federally recognized tribes are recognized as possessing certain inherent rights of self-government (i.e., tribal sovereignty) and are entitled to receive certain federal benefits, services, and protections because of their special relationship with the United States.  At present, there are 573 federally recognized American Indian and Alaska Native tribes and villages.

    The relationship between federally recognized tribes and the United States is one between sovereigns, i.e., between a government and a government. This “government-to-government” principle, which is grounded in the United States Constitution, has helped to shape the long history of relations between the federal government and these tribal nations.

    https://www.bia.gov/

    1. Nathanville profile image86
      Nathanvilleposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks IslandBites, a very informative web link which I enjoyed studying.  In trying to get a ‘picture’ (in my mind) of what life is like on these ‘reservations’, I did stumble across a couple of short videos (below); which I would be interested for your opinion on how representative they are (or are not) to reality!

      Life on the Reservation:  https://youtu.be/HnzMB0QaK5w

      How Independent Are Native American Reservations?  https://youtu.be/hcivYX3IUGA

 
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