Damn! I feel Validated.

Jump to Last Post 1-3 of 3 discussions (30 posts)
  1. GA Anderson profile image91
    GA Andersonposted 13 months ago

    On contemplation of the frequent allegations of 'Fence sitting', I now rejoice. I have found what I view as an affirmation of the rightness of my positions; in a quote from Edmund Burke:

    "Struggling a good while with these thoughts, by degrees I felt myself more firm. I derived, at length, some confidence from what in other circumstances usually produces timidity. I grew less anxious, even from the idea of my own insignificance. For, judging of what you are by what you ought to be, I persuaded myself that you would not reject a reasonable proposition because it had nothing but its reason to recommend it."
    Source: BURKE'S SPEECH ON CONCILIATION WITH AMERICA

    So, thinking about something before forming an opinion is not a new concept. Hells bells, who woulda thunkit.

    GA

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
      Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      You mean taking the time to come to accurate conclusions is preferable to quickly forming erroneous conclusions?
      And thus fence-sitting is justifiable?
      Good to know.

      1. GA Anderson profile image91
        GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I think it is better stated as; come to conclusions you are comfortable and confident with and in. Until then I think fence-sitting is justifiable and prudent.

        It has nothing to do with accuracy or speed—bad opinions and poor conclusions also have nothing to do with it.

        GA

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
          Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Huh! I've always aimed for speed and accuracy. Guess I'm not much of a fence sitter. I'll leave it for you.
          I'l be saying stupid things and experimenting with ideas.
          Oh well.
          smile

    2. Ken Burgess profile image89
      Ken Burgessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      GA

      Your balanced approach to viewing an issue I have always found commendable.

      Not all people are blessed with your wit and not all people are able to share your objectivity (or choose not to).

      I like to think that over the course of the years we have corresponded on these forums a small bit of your calm and rational approach has had its positive impact on me.

      Making the effort to be rational, reasonable, and fair may not be in fashion in these current times, but I applaud your efforts and appreciate your contributions.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        *Fence-sitting skills include a balanced approach to viewing issues, calmness, logic/reason and fairness. It " has nothing to do with accuracy or speed—bad opinions and poor conclusions..." Comfort and confidence in forming opinions/points of view is the important thing.
        Someone I know, recently advised, "Never rush."

        Huh!

      2. GA Anderson profile image91
        GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Well damn Ken, you got me blushing. (and looking for the hook) :-0

        GA

      3. Nathanville profile image93
        Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Thanks GA for that, a very wise quote.

        1. GA Anderson profile image91
          GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          And although it was ignored, I think his proposition to his government in that speech was a very wise one too.

          GA

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            what was his proposition to his government?

            1. GA Anderson profile image91
              GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              To concede to the colonies' demands and seek reconciliation.

              The Short Version

              The Much Better Version

              GA

      4. hard sun profile image85
        hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I'll give you a virtual pat on the back GA. I did not quite see the true nature of so many on the left. I think you did.

        1. lobobrandon profile image91
          lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          The far left just like the far right are the same kind of people. They do not have the ability to think for themselves.

          1. hard sun profile image85
            hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            That statement is shining through crystal clear right now. L'oreal just pulled all mentions of statements like "lightening" from their products because the only thing these statements could refer to, or conjure images of, is white colonialism!?!? I shake my head almost continuously as I read the news these days, and it's definitely not just because of what Trump is saying.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              When one actively searches for reasons to be offended, whether intentionally so or not, they will surely find them.  Which is why we are where we are today.

              1. hard sun profile image85
                hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Hi wilderness. It's a big holier than thou context..with the winner being the unholiest in my mind.

            2. lobobrandon profile image91
              lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              I agree with that though. Unilever has fair and lovely in India, they have over decades pushed to say that only fair and white is beautiful, which did indeed follow the white supremacy of the British.

              Pulling mentions from the word is not going to do anything, they need to pull those products off the shelves. Cream for healthy skin sure. You want to get tanned or bleach your skin sure, but call it that. Skin bleaching or skin tanning. Don't market it as white is the only thing that is beautiful.

              I have no clue how Loreal markets its product in the US.

              1. hard sun profile image85
                hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                "I have no clue how Loreal markets its product in the US."

                I deal with Loreal ads as part of my job. I don't see anything related to white being the only thing that is beautiful. I see tans being marketed, as darker skin is beautiful in the US, but not the other way around.

                1. lobobrandon profile image91
                  lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Didn't you just say they removed the word "lightening"? They must be marketing that too, or do they just bury it?

                  1. hard sun profile image85
                    hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    So, I'm supposed to take offense to "darkening" come on man. Like wilderness said, if you search hard enough.

                    1. lobobrandon profile image91
                      lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                      In that sense, you should not take offense when your kids are bullied, because the others were bullied all this while with ads saying white is beautiful and that's the least direct way of bullying from the day someone is born. It's interesting how some people within a few months of them being on the receiving end realize the discrimination when they fail to see how generations of discrimination were normalized. I only asked how whether Loreal markets skin lightening products and you took offense, is that you being defensive because they actually do it in a negative light? If not I don't see the reason for you to think that I assumed you should take offense to the word darkening.

                      I merely pointed out that you said skin lightening was not marketed in the US. Like I said I have no clue about how it is done there. You said it was not marketed but only tanning stuff was marketed, yet they decided to remove the word lightening? It does not really all fit in.

                      You don't have to search hard enough, you need to put yourself in the other's shoes and try to imagine what it would be like to live that way for generations. Them bullying your kids needs to be pointed out too, no one wants one form of discrimination to change to another. There are those who want the current modes of discrimination to stay the way they are though, while there are others who want it to be the other way around.

              2. GA Anderson profile image91
                GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                I think your Unilever example is just more proof of the same silliness Lobo.

                I would guess that "white" is the word in the mind of the consumer buying those products. I think those wording changes are just euphemisms that don't change the truth. They only make it easier to ignore.

                However, I do think Unilever's "fair and lovely" is more defensible than our L'oreal example.

                GA

                1. lobobrandon profile image91
                  lobobrandonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  True, Loreal actually did implement this change after Unilever did it in India from what I've read. India is a huge market for this particular product for Unilever.

            3. GA Anderson profile image91
              GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              I heard a blurb about that L'oreal thing. Like you, all I could do was just shake my head. When things get this silly it's useless to try to be rational about it.

              However, I will offer my cynical 2-cents; It is not about social responsibility, it's all about profits—in my opinion of course. ;-)

              GA

              1. hard sun profile image85
                hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                "It is not about social responsibility, it's all about profits—in my opinion of course. ;-)"

                Ha...of course it is. The company I work for has a European CEO. He sent us an email telling us all about how the American govt has failed us. He adjusted some policies in a way meant to stifle public voices that are against China. I had a first emotional response to that. It's all about the Benjamins.

        2. GA Anderson profile image91
          GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Oh hell hard sun, that's much deeper than I thought of it, (I didn't see a Right/Left connotation). I was just noting that some great minds also see the need to think before taking a stand.

          GA

          1. hard sun profile image85
            hard sunposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Well that too. That first emotional response is difficult to resist.

            1. GA Anderson profile image91
              GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              You are right about that "first emotional response." It is easier to just go with it.

              GA

    3. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
      Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months ago

      ... reminds me of a song from long ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lBLxaIOZG4

    4. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
      Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months ago

      Since I was young I've been very hard to please
      And I don't know wrong from right
      But there is one thing I could never understand
      Some of the sick things that a girl does to a man, so
      I'm just sittin' on a fence
      You can say I got no sense
      Trying to make up my mind
      Really is too horrifying
      So I'm sittin on a fence
      All of my friends at school grew up and settled down
      And they mortgaged up their lives
      One things not said too much, but I think it's true
      They just get married 'cause there's nothing else to do, so
      I'm just sittin' on a fence
      You can say I got no sense
      Trying to make up my mind
      Really is too horrifying
      So I'm sittin on a fence
      I'm just sittin' on a fence
      You can say I got no sense
      Trying to make up my mind
      Really is too horrifying
      So I'm sittin on a fence
      The day can come when you get old and sick and tired of life
      You just never realize
      Maybe the choice you made wasn't really right
      But you go out and you don't come back at night, so
      I'm just sittin' on a fence
      You can say I got no sense
      Trying to make up my mind
      Really is too horrifying
      So I'm sittin on a fence

     
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