"Middle Class No More, Families Struggle to Fight off Homelessness": Y

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   fishskinfreak2008posted 14 years ago

   Web-site/URL: http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/201002 … UtY2xhc3M-
   
   More evidence that the worst recession since World War II is still NOT over and won't be until we see some spending and there is a TRUE drop in unemployment (i.e. when the decrease ISN'T because SOME PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN UP LOOKING FOR WORK).

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      rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I am not really surprised that this topic doesn't get much consideration.  The democrats and republicans avoid this subject like the plague.  They created it by passing NAFTA and don't like to recall what a mistake it was.
      
      The pathetic thing is while the politicians are pretty much insulated from the issue the people that continue to support the slime in Washington and their party slavemasters are too stupid to recognize it.  Oh I forgot, that would be socialism to allow any regulations to protect the American worker and the middle class.

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   MikeNVposted 14 years ago

   Recovery is not going to happen until the debt is addressed.
   
   DEBT is the problem PERIOD.
   
   Every proposal on the table is to increase spending and debt.  Lend more money to Business... create more debt. Every tax credit is money that will have to be collected from somewhere else.  If you do not raise taxes then you have to borrow.  If you raise taxes you put a bigger damper on spending.
   
   The Debt Load must be addressed.
   
   Debt is what got us here, and Debt is NOT Capital.
   
   You can not spend what you do not have.  That's reality.
   
   Your posts are often contradictory... in that in one you post the economy is growing... as linked form Yahoo... then in the next you post that the Recession is not over.
   
   You can sit on the Fence, but you can't be on both sides.

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      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      MIke,  I think you and I are trying to teach the unteachable.  So many of the posters on these threads have the debt monetary system hammered so deep into their skulls that they just haven't the ability to think of money in any other terms except debt.
      
      They think that money is just out there.  They do not reealize that money has to have an origin.
      
      They never seem to be able to question why is it, when man is working to get ahead, and businesses are all working toward making a profit. we are so many trillions in debt?
      How can we be the richest nation in the world and yet be the greatest debtor nation?
      
      Where does the money come from to pay the interest on loans?
      
      Why can banks loan out at least 9 times what they have in reserve, and create it out of thin air, on the borrowers promise to pay?
      
      How can you pay debt with debt?
      
      Why are TPTB trying to blame the people for borrowing too much, then saying that the banks have to loan out more to stimulate the economy?
      
      Why can't they look at history, and see how we, as a nation and as individuals have gone deeper and deeper in debt, especially since the passage of the federal reserve act?
      
      How much closer to bankruptcy must this nation get before the people pull their heads out of the sand?
      
      Don't they realize that this system is designed for most business to eventually fail, because they are killing their own markets?
      
      Can't they see that everyday they are being given evidence of this in the  news? 
      
      Foreclosures, bankruptcies, pension plans in trouble, cost of living constantly going up, higher and higher taxes,  congress constantly raising the nation's debt ceiling, the cost of wars, healthcare costs rising,
      schools having to cut back on programs, libraries closing,  more and more two breadwinner families,  Some with more than one job because of low wages, companies cutting benefits,  Businesses downsizing and outsourcing,  businesses moving out of the country,  our nation borrowing trillions from foreign nations, etc., etc..
      
      Why can't their brains retain all of the negative things that are happening, and realize that we are in deep financial trouble?
      
      Is it ignorance?  Is it apathy?  Is it fear?  Do some think that they are well off enough that a crash won't hurt them?  Don't they care about the legacy they are leaving for their children and grandchildren?
      
      The brick wall has fallen on them, yet they go on as if nothing has happened!
      
      If someone robbed their house, they would immediately call the police and demand action, but the fractional banking system has been robbing them for decades, and they don't seem to care about it at all!
      
      What's the answer Mike?
      
      Jerryl

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         Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Nice attitude you have toward the other members here. It really elevates you.

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            jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Sab Oh,  After trying to teach people the truth about this monetary system for so many years, One recognizes a pattern in human behaviour.  If it bothers you I am sorry, but it still doesn't change facts.  Do you think I should candy coat everything I have to say?
            
            I have found that even when most people are taught the truth, they cannot except the truth, because it destroys the belief system they have had for many years. Sometimes language that may seem offensive to you, may actually help someone come out of their debt monetary system coma, and find the truth.  Unless people understand what is going on, how can we expect any change to a system that has proven it doesn't work?
            
            Here's a few questions for you.
            
            Congress has the power to coin money, so why must we borrow in order to have a medium of exchange?
            
            Where does the money come from to pay the interest on loans?
            
            How can we pay off our national debt, when all money is created as debt?
            
            Why are people afraid to look at their IRA's or 401K's after a drop in the stock market, and just leave it there and blindly hope for the best?
            
            Why do people blame a particular political party for all fo the economic problems, when the actual control is in the hands of the privately held federal reserve?
            
            Thanks for your post
            
            Jerryl

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         JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         JERRY_ the answer is. . .  we need "more" conservative de-regulating . so "more" companies can move out of the country, increasing  unemployment. add another unpaid war at 10 billion a month.let  banks absorb everyones cash and charge them to spend it(credit cards) and then fail. then "WE" pay them 700 billion to get back our money. then we  fake prosperity on a house of cards long enough for people to make huge purchases thinking that as their pay increases over the years .the payments will not be a problem. get another republican president and when it all crashes he walks away and we blame it on the next president. obviously this is pure sarcasm! but they won't listen to or work to improve anything, because i think they want to do it again

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            jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Joe,  Your pure sarcasm post (lol) is right on.  It will probably take all of the tongue in cheek things you suggested before the people wake up and hold their political representatives feet to the fire.  Those elected, usually end up being shills for the bankers. 
            
            After trying to teach people about this fraudulent system for over 10 years, I truly believe that 99.99% of the people in this country haven't a clue to how badly they have been fleeced over the decades.
            
            I am 70 years old, and getting tired of talking to people who don't want to hear about how wrong this system is. I guess I keep going because of my kids and theirs.
            
            I guess the way I put things may offend some.  It's not meant to offend, but to try to get the people to start looking at the cause of the problems and passing on the word. 
            
            I did enjoy your post.  Keep em coming
            
            Jerryl

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            Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Funny you blame the republicans. Bush in all his 8 years of spending managed to spend on averaged 2% of GDP, add the TARP and that brought it to 2.7%. FDR, the biggest spending socialist president in history spent on average between 10 and 12% of GDP, and Obama, he's bringing spending to a new level, over his first term he will have spent each year between 22 and 24% of GDP!!! Obama is spending, borrowing and printing money like no other president. He's created more debt in one year than was created in all the years of this country's existence, and you still want to blame the republicans???

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   StormRyderposted 14 years ago

   Unfortunately I can't see recovery from this happening soon, some signs say thing are improving but I think that they can be misleading. We need creation of new jobs which is easier said than done. I know that the goal of buisness is to build profit and to expand, but at what price? Corporate greed is astounding and those at the top earning the most seem to care little about whats happening in the real world of the everyday workers that struggle day to day and are the very ones who put all that money into the pockets of the CEO's and other executives.
   
   I am so lucky and blessed to have been free of set backs by the economic downturn, I have a great job that pays very well and am thankful for it. I really feel bad for all those who have lost jobs, homes, everything!! Being in the position I am I donate to various charities to help as best I can but it's not enough to really make a difference..Sad times for so many

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   sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago

   Damage to our middle class is a huge problem! They are the consumers and that could be the biggest miscalculation of the wealthy in this country. The republicans could have sewed up all future elections had they put as much effort shoreing up the middle class and alot less lining each others pockets.

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5. 67

   MikeNVposted 14 years ago

   When the Wealthy Elite want to promote their agenda they create issues that split people emotionally and cause distractions.  911, War, Tax the Rich... on and on.
   
   None of it matters!  It's just a way to get people arguing against each other to distract from the real issue.  Republicans fighting Democrats... same thing.
   
   These are all SYMPTOMS of the system itself.  Debt is CANCER and you can not treat systems... you have to CUT OUT THE DISEASE.
   
   This country has been treating symptoms of debt since the inception of the Federal Reserve Act.
   
   The problem is the Symptom itself.
   
   For people who don't get it here is a very simple example.
   
   You take $100 and deposit it in the bank.
   
   The bank enters $100 deposit on their book.
   
   Now the bank can lend out $90 (10%) must remain on reserve.  And the bank lends this money and enters $90 Asset on their books.
   
   The bank took in $100 but is not showing $190 on their books!  Sweet deal for the banks!  They created $90 of Assets with nothing more than a few clicks on the keyboard!  What you say?  How is that?  That is the system!
   
   Now lets go to the Federal Reserve.  The United States decides it can not pay it's debt because it is spending more than it is taking in from tax revenues.
   
   The United States Treasury asks the Federal Reserve to print up $20 Billion Dollars.  And they do but... but first they require the United States Government to issue $20 Billion in Treasury Notes.  And they do.
   
   So the Federal Reserve prints the notes... and $20 Billion in new currency is created.
   
   So that's $20 Billion printed out of NOTHING and backed by what?  That's right - Interest!  Every Treasury Bill has to be repaid with INTEREST.  That $20 Billion has to be repaid with INTEREST.
   
   Now the Government spends the $20 Billion at Peak Value.  Once the money filters into the system it by definition devalues the existing currency (Inflation) because there is now more money in the system than there was before... but that money was not earned it was printed and is backed by nothing.
   
   The problem is that Republicans and Democrats alike are doing absolutely nothing to "fix" this system?
   
   Why you ask do they not eliminate the Federal Reserve and quit printing money and paying interest?
   
   Because of the Federal Reserve Act put into play by the Rockefeller Family and other Bankers!  The Federal Reserve Answers to no one!  It's not a Federal Agency.  It's an independant Agency who is owned by private shareholders.
   
   These people set monetary policy and are paid for doing nothing more than printing money.  Like the board game monopoly... they just make money from nothing.
   
   And they have complete and total control of the money and can buy any politician they want.
   
   And they are not all Americans.  Anyone from any control who holds the stock certificates has the power to influence what does or doesn't happen in the Federal Reserve.
   
   That's reality.  Everything else is distraction.  The System is broken and people are ignorant.

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      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Mike, you are right.  They use misdirection ploys to fool the public, and it works!
      
      
      this is obvious when people argue about which politician or party is the guilty culprit, when it's the bankers themselves that are the corrupting
      force.  I call it gladiator games.  No progress will be made to remedy the corruption until the masses are educated, and get after their elected representatives.
      
      All people have to do is spread the word to their neighbors and unite to take action.  Form neighborhood groups to contact their legislators. Let them know that they are not going to allow the corruption to go on.
      If they don't get action. (VOTE THE JERKS OUT OF OFFICE).
      
      Jerryl

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   Jane@CMposted 14 years ago

   While I'm not into politics, I do follow what goes on.
   
   I agree with the statement "MIke,  I think you and I are trying to teach the unteachable.  So many of the posters on these threads have the debt monetary system hammered so deep into their skulls that they just haven't the ability to think of money in any other terms except debt.
   
   They think that money is just out there.  They do not reealize that money has to have an origin."
   
   Trying to teach people to actually handle their money is one of the biggest crisis we have.  I agree that if we are not spending, that recovery will be slow, however, you have to think before you spend.  You have to budget before you spend.
   
   In looking at a broader picture on unemployment, my husband, along with 300+ employees were laid off in August.  Very few have found jobs, why?  They are willing to sit back and wait for our state to recover so they can continue living here or simply will not consider moving.  If you are unemployed, you want a job, point blank - you need to look at where the jobs are.  My husband was offered jobs in Vermont, Colorado & CA.  So yes, there are jobs out there, in fact he is still being contacted to interview, even though he has found a position.
   
   The mind set has to change across the board.  The rich will continue to get richer and I know a few of them who don't think twice about the middle class or the working poor.  I also know a few who care quite deeply about the middle class and working poor and unemployed, but simply do not have positions available within their companies to hire.  Yes, they've tightened their belts to save themselves and the companies they manage or own.
   
   Going beyond that, we need to TEACH our kids how to save, how to spend & how to WORK!  My daughter takes 18 credits a semester and still manages to work three mornings a week in a position she has had for almost two years.  Most of the kids in her dorm won't work because mommy & daddy support them.  Yes, we do pay her tuition, but she buys her own books, pays her car insurance, parking, bus transportation and has a bit left over for fun/shopping.  If we don't teach the next generation, the status quo will not change.
   
   Then you have the mentality of people who believe they are "owed" something back from society.  That subject to me would be an out and out rant, so I'll quit for now.

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      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Jane,  Thanks for your post.  While much of what you say is true, I think that if you looked for the reason that your husband and 300 others were
      laid off, you would be closer to realizing the real truth.
      
      This monetary system, because of it's usury aspect, is forcing businesses to kill their own markets.
      
      Let's look at what really happens. Under this system, if we don't borrow, no money is created.  The government must also borrow.  When it does, your taxes go up.  Then your husband has to ask for a raise.  Your husband's boss, says he can't afford that raise, but he doesn't want to lose a good employee like your husband, so he gives him the raise.
      
      Now his employer must raise the price of his product or services.  The government, being a part of the company customer base, must now pay more for that product or service also, and must once again raise taxes.
      
      In order to compete with foreign competition, your husband's boss, must look for ways to cut costs.  First to go is quality or quantity of product or services.  Next is wages and/or benefits.  Then it is downsizing, then outsourcing for a cheaper work force.  Then finally it comes down to moving out of the country in order to survive.
      
      All of these problems can be attributed to the debt monetary system.
      When government borrows, the consumer must pay the loan and interest, in higher and higher taxes. however, we are so deep in debt, that all we can do is service the interest on our national debt.
      
      When businesses borrow, the consumer must pay for those loans and interest in higher prices, or in other words a higher cost of living.
      
      When the consumer borrows, he must pay for his own, or face bankruptcy or foreclosure.
      
      Under this system, we are forced to borrow, or we would be without a medium of exchange.  If there is no debt, there can be no dollars.
      
      If you have money in your pocket, in checking or savings, you could not possibly have that money, unless someone else either individually or collectively, has an equal amount of indebtedness.
      
      under this system, money is created when debts are incurred, and extinguished when loans are paid.  Then that money is erased from the books, or uncreated.
      
      This is a no win system for the masses, but a real bonanza for the select few that are in power.
      
      I remember when a single breadwinner could support a family and still put away for retirement.  Now, in most cases, it takes 2 breadwinners, and sometimes with more than one job each to accomplish the same.
      
      When you talk about those men moving to another state to get those jobs, ask yourself why the people that are laid off in that state aren;t being hired for those jobs?
      
      Are those companies looking for cheaper workers? is it economically feasible for any of your husband's co-workers to move to another state?
      Every family has a different status economically.  I cannot judge what another family should do without knowing the facts.
      
      We are at the mercy of the bankers.  They control the economy.  If they create enough synthetic money, we prosper, if not, we go through economic hard times.  They can cause depression at any time, by contracting the money supply, just by refusing to loan to the consumer.
      
      If you have been reading the news lately, you would notice that the government is trying to get the banks to loan out more money to the consumer.
      
      Isn't that ironic?  Especially since they are blaming the consumer for borrowing too much. 
      
      Your thoughts?
      
      Jerryl

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   Jane@CMposted 14 years ago

   Jerry,
   
   I agree with much of what you say.
   
   In my hubby's situation, the layoff was due to the government.  The Army canceled the prime contract he was working on, leaving 300 people here and another few hundred in San Jose without jobs because of a "stop work".

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      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Jane,  I guess the government has to cut expenses also.  It's still the system.  I sure hope things go well for you and yours.
      
      Jerryl

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   ddsurfscaposted 14 years ago

   Unless we can get a handle on how the wealthy earn money and how much taxes they put back into the system, we are going to sink farther and deeper into poverty with the middle class dissappearing.  I read that 1% of our population controls and owns 97% of all the money in this country.  Middle working class is taking a beating and the rich just get richer.  Is this the rep8ublican way?

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      Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      5% of the wealthiest Americans pay 68% of the taxes.
      
      40% pay no taxes.
      
      That leaves the middle 53% paying 32% of the taxes.
      
      Trust me, you got a handle on how to bilk the rich.
      
      Ever wonder why they choose to do business outside of this country?

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