Place the blame for our economic woes where it belongs

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  1. profile image0
    jerrylposted 14 years ago

    Millions of people do not understand that we have a debt monetary system.

    The actual creation of money (always) involves the extension of credit by private commercial banks.

    This means interest bearing loans, so all M1 money in existence is debt.  There is never any money created to pay the interest on any loan, so in the money creation process, we are always creating a debt greater than the debt money supply created.

    This system must eventually crash.  When TPTB can no longer bleed the public in order to create the bandaids they are using to prolong the inevitable, the system will begin it's tumble into a deep depression. 

    Currently, we are just servicing the interest on our unpayable debt to the banksters.  It won't be too long before just servicing that ever growing debt will surpass total gross consumer income.

    When this happens, man will have to choose between paying taxes, or feeding his family.  If he chooses the later, the government will not have the revenues to honor it's contracts with corporate America.  Most of corporate America are on the stock market.  What's invested in the market?  IRA's, 401k's and pension plans. 

    Where are the safety nets?  Who has a solution?  I know of one, but the politicians will not address this issue.  They are protecting the banksters, who donate to their reelection campaigns.

    We must get ourselves out of this fractional banking debt monetary system and into a system where man is rewarded for his current productivity.  Currently, money is created by mortgaging man's future productivity through indebtedness.

    We cannot pay debt with debt.  We can only transfer our debts to someone else under this system. 

    Looking for solutions.  My solution will be made in a near future post.



    1. prosmentor profile image62
      prosmentorposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The problem is from the so called experts. The manipulate the market and economy for their selfish interests.

      1. profile image0
        jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Prosmentor,  They also control the media, enabling them to keep the nation dumbed down.  When you really think about it, about the only place that people gather regularly in any significant numbers, is in church on Sundays.  However, we have separation of church and state.  Churches are afraid their tax exempt status would be jerked if they took action.  Others just say I will let the Lord do battle for me!  Good luck with that one.


    2. Pr0metheus profile image59
      Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Fight club...

      Blow them all up!

    3. profile image53
      IsraelFinancialExposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You are 100% right!
      Gold is the only way out of this mess but they will need to inflate like crazy befroe that and they know it.(see my 11 suprises for the next decade)

      1. profile image0
        jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this


        I respectfully disagree that gold is the answer.  First,  In recorded history, there has only been approximately 150,000 metric tons of gold mined. 

        Dividing this amount of gold up by the worlds population, including what gold has been used in jewelery, industry, statues, etc., would only allow for a very small fraction of an ounce per person.

        Second, Gold is just as corruptable as paper or electronic transfer money.  It was the inflated issuance of gold certificates by the goldsmiths that begat the fractional banking debt monetary system that we operate under now.

        Third,  Not changing how money is created and gets into circulation, is the real reason for our problems.  Just using gold as backing for our dollars will not solve anything.  We have to get back to earning our money, then spending it in, (NOT BORROWING AT INTEREST), then specnding it in.

        That's the difference between wealth money and debt money.

        If you did introduce gold backing in our current debt system, it wouldn't be too long before the banksters would own all of the actual physical gold.  For them, it would be mission accomplished!

        It doesn't much matter what we use for money, as long as everyone benefits.  Inflating the value of gold will only make the small percentage of people that own PM's richer.

        Finally, gold is not convenient. It is heavy. Not easily transported. Electronic transfer would be much easier to handle.

        We just have to take away indebtedness as the  creation mechanism of money, and get back to earning money into existence, by rewarding man's current productivity, not mortgaging man's future productivity!


  2. profile image0
    Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago

    There's only one solution, God, gold, and guns! Prepare for anarchy because it's coming to a country near you!

    1. profile image0
      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I was looking for solutions, not anarchy.


      1. profile image0
        Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I wasn't offering a solution but a result of the current fiscal policies of the USA.

        We could get rid of the fed for starters.

        1. profile image0
          jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          poppa, Goo thought.  I have a plan to get rid of the fed, but it requires holding the feet of our congressmen to the fire.

          The constitution gives congress the power to coin money, and create post roads.  I would have congress pass laws that would require the treasury to fund infrastructure projects.

          There would not be highways to nowhere allowed.

          When a city or state found a need for an infrastructure project, that benefited both the people and commerce, they would let that project out for competitive bid,just as it is done now.

          Once the winning bid was established, the state would forward that bid amount to the U.S. treasury, who would then set up an asset monetization account.  The treasury would then debit that amount out of it's account, into the state's transportation project account, Who would in turn, gradually debit the money out of it's account and into the winning contractor's bank account.

          As the project progressed, the contractor's employees, suppliers etc., would spend this earned money into circulation, debt free, interest free.

          These infrastructure projects could also include mass transit systems.  I choose using the infrastructure as the vehicle for achieving this goal, because it benefits everyone.

          As the new wealth money gains in strength, the congress would place gradual increasing reseerve requirements on the fed, until the new money had gained enough to handle the nations monetary needs.  At that time, the fed could be eliminated, and banks would have to go back to a fee for service type of business.  No more creating money out of this air.

          The benefits would be fantastic.  There would be no need for road use taxes, fuel taxes, and we would take millions of people off of the unemployment and welfare roles.  Full benefits and livable wages would also be a requirement in the bidding process.  Building mass transit systems would reduce traffic and our reliance on foreign oil.

          Like I said, this would have to be pushed by congress.  However it has been my experience with congress, that they are no willing to buck the banksters, because the banksters contribute tidy sums to their reelection campaigns.

          It all comes down to educating the people on this topic, and that is one big chore.


  3. mikelong profile image60
    mikelongposted 14 years ago

    Use Executive Order 11110!!!!  It's still sitting there waiting....

    Globalization, in my mind, is a major cause for our economic problems.......

    Don't let capital and jobs move without labor organizing!!!

    1. profile image0
      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The control for globalization is in the hands of the central banksters of the world.  So how does your proposal go about finding a remedy that will bring the power back to the people where it belongs?


      1. mikelong profile image60
        mikelongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Use political force to add labor initiatives to globalization activities....

        The movement of labor organizations, or the collaboration between labor organizations can be written into future agreements....

        This begins with grass-roots political activism, however...

        Motivating people to join in such a movement can be done through the spreading of information, like how things like Executive Order 11110 have been held back by those we vote in...push critical thinking...

        We have a common just needs to be vocalized and spread effectively

        1. profile image0
          jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Mikelong,  While I applaud your motives, I don't believe that you realize just how extensive the control of media is in this country. 

          Getting your message to enough people is a daunting task.  If you can do it, let me know how you did it, because I want to educate millions of people about this fraudulent debt monetary system.


      2. Cagsil profile image71
        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        By giving the people the knowledge they need to better their lives, without involving the banksters. Simple enough, right? big_smile

        1. profile image0
          jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Cagsil,  Please enlighten me on how people can better their lives without involving the banksters!

          Under this debt monetary system, if there is no debt, there can be no dollars.

          Russell Munk, Asst. general council for the U. S. treasury said that the creation of money (always) involves the extension of credit by private commercial banks.

          This means interest bearing loans. However no money it the loan process for any individual is created to  pay the interest!

          The money to pay the interest on muy loan must come from the debt principle of someone elses loan that has been spent into circulation.  I can capture some of those debt dollars through commerce to pay the interest on my loan.

          Under this system, if you have money in a savings acct, checking acct., or in your pocket, you could not possibly have that money, unless someone else, either individually or collectively has an equal amount of debt!

          If we quit borrowing, the system begins an immediate collapse!

          Why is it that government says that we borrowed too much, and that is the reason for the economic disaster we have currently, and now they are telling the banksters that we bailed out through indebtedness, that they must start loaning out more money to kick start this economy?

          Now tell me how a person can better their life by staying away from the banksters?


  4. Rhianni32 profile image69
    Rhianni32posted 14 years ago

    So basically you are proposing FDR's New Deal.

    1. profile image0
      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Rhianni32,  FDR's new deal? 

      Something on that order, but without financing the infrastructure with indebtedness.

      I would use it to create debt free money.  If the fed can create money out of thin air, why can't the treasury?

      The treasury could create the money and spend it into circulation, through the contractors building the infrastructure.  There would be no need to borrow the money to complete the projects.  No debt and no interest. 
      Wealth money!

  5. livewithrichard profile image73
    livewithrichardposted 14 years ago

    Your plan calls for a new federal department and more bureaucracy. We need smaller Government not larger Government. States should be in charge of their own infrastructure not the feds.

    1. Misha profile image64
      Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      As if having 50 big governments is better than having one lol

      1. Arthur Fontes profile image76
        Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Yes it would be better to have 50 strong state governments if you are not happy with the way your state is run you have 49 choices left.  If you are not happy with the tyrannical central government then there is nowhere to go.

        1. Cagsil profile image71
          Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, there is right at them. big_smile

        2. livewithrichard profile image73
          livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this


        3. Misha profile image64
          Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Another country. smile

          But you have a point smile

    2. profile image0
      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Livewithrichard,  my plan calls for getting rid of the fed!

      How's that for reducig unnecessary government?

      If you think for one minute that congress and the senate are
      running this country, think again.  When the fed says squat, the pols say what color sir!

      Everything in the world is driven by money, and the central bankers control it all!


      1. livewithrichard profile image73
        livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        If by "fed" you mean the Federal Reserve Bank then it makes no sense at all because the "Fed" you are thinking of is not a department of the government.  The Fed is a private bank so no government is reduced.

        1. profile image0
          jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Livewithrichard, Whether the fed is part of the government or not, is of no matter.  All you have to do is watch a senate or house hearing with the fed, and watch the politicians kiss the feet of people like Greenspan and Bernanke!

          If you think that the banksters don't run this country, think again.  All they have to do is contract the money supply, and we are screwed. 

          I will challenge you to an experiment.  Try getting anything published in any major newspaper on the topic of the debt monetary system!  You will see media control in action.  No one will touch this topic.


    3. profile image0
      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Livewithrichard,  I think if you read my proposal, you would find that I said that when a city or state finds a need for an infrastructure project, they would put it out for competitive bid, then send the winning bid amount to the treasury for the funding.

      I think that the funding should be from a single source.  It would be much easier to keep track of.  I hope this clears things up a little.


      1. livewithrichard profile image73
        livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        And I totally disagree with that because when the state has to go to the federal government it is moving against the grain.

        If you didn't know, there is a slow but growing movement in this country to reassert state sovereignty and stop the uncontrolled expansion of the federal government.

        According to the 10th amendment to the constitution The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

        1. profile image0
          jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Livewithrichard,  I didn't mean to imply that the state should have to go to the federal government for everything.  I just thought that one source for money creation would be better that 50 sources.  We will never be rid of a federal government completely.  I agree in less federal government, but in this instance, I think that keeping track of money creation by one source is better than keeping track of 50 sources.  Thanks for your posts.


  6. mdburks profile image60
    mdburksposted 14 years ago

    I have found out that once you release control it is very hard to take back and most of the time it is a long fight, this fight will be worth it.

  7. Misha profile image64
    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    The quality of YOUR life is fully in YOUR hands. Government has nothing to do with this. smile

    1. profile image0
      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Misha, I disagree.  The government is bought and paid for by the banksters.  Any legislation passed by congress that affects you and I adversely,in favor of the banksters, means that the government does screw with us, and we are not in control in that instance!


      1. Misha profile image64
        Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Keep suffering then smile

        1. profile image0
          jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Misha,  Your answer "Keep suffering then", really doesn't make much sense to me.  I have been working on this idea and lobbying politicians for 14 years now.  I don't get paid for doing this.  I do it for my children and grandchildren.  I felt that your remark was sarcastic.  If I have offended you, I am sorry.  That apology doesn't mean that I agree with your statement. I only meant to show that the government can affect the lives of many when influenced by the banksters.


          1. Misha profile image64
            Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No sarcasm, sorry if I sounded like that. As I said, I am sure that our own happiness depends ONLY on us. It is possible to be happy even under torture, if you train yourself well enough.

            We choose to stay happy or unhappy in response to external events, but it is OUR choice.

            In other words, to be happy, you just need to choose to be happy, no FED or government needed. smile

            1. profile image0
              jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Misha,  I guess I took your remark the wrong way.  Thanks for clearing that up.  I still disagree and I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  My reasoning is that legislation can at certain levels of the economic ladder be very depressing to certain segments of society.  Letting pharma gouge senior citizens for instance.  When they have to choose between buying necessary medicine or food, it is sad indeed.


          2. livewithrichard profile image73
            livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Jerryl, I'm sure your intentions are good but increasing the size of government is the wrong way to go. You're plan calls for taking the control of money out of the hands of people that know money and giving control to bureaucrats that only know how to spend money.

            Every state has its own economy and its own unique set of demographics. When the federal government can control the infrastructure of the states then it steals that uniqueness.

            1. profile image0
              jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Livewithrichard,  I did not even come close to suggest the we give control of our infrastructure creation to the fed govt.

              If you read it correctly, the projects were to be determined by the cities and the state, let out for competitive bid, and then the winning bid would be sent to the treasury for the creation of that amount of money only.

              The treasury would only be allowed to create the amount dictated by that particular state, then debit that amount to the state so the project can begin. 

              This process would put the money into the peoples hands by rewarding their current productivity. It would also increase their expendable income by reducing the need for road use taxes and fuel taxes.

              Without those taxes, the cost of shipping would be reduced dramatically. Couple that with taking millions off of the unemployment and welfare roles, and you should be able to see the benefits I am talking about. In this process, there is no debt money created through loans, and no interest due.


              1. livewithrichard profile image73
                livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                So now its the states that dictate to the feds how much money they will get for infrastructure? Never mind that they have their own economies and levy their own taxes for such projects. Its the federal government that will foot the bill and then levy the cost on all taxpayers.

                So, the half million or so people living in Wyoming get to help pay the $2 trillion tab for a high speed rail system for the 35 million people living in California? They would have to since the money is coming from the fed.

                How does your magic money machine create money without creating debt? Regardless of how you look at it, every dollar printed is another dollar of debt. When the feds print money they create debt by borrowing from themselves and the interest comes in the form of inflation. The feds can't just give the money to the states without creating debt and without increasing inflation and the only way to offset that is to raise taxes to cover the bill.

    2. Ron Montgomery profile image59
      Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Your personal happiness is the property of the collective society.  It is the government's duty to issue you the amount of happiness necessary for your maximum contribution to society's collective well-being.  The government does not make misteaks in this regard.

  8. profile image0
    jerrylposted 14 years ago

    I want to thank all of you posters for participating.  I must have hit a topic of interest.

    I have a link that you may be interested in, but when I signed up today, I read something about not being allowed to post links.  So, I guess I can't post that link, even though I have nothing to do with it personally.

    I just feel it is very educational on this topic.


  9. Misha profile image64
    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    I can tell from your avatar you've got your todays share of happiness already wink

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image59
      Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, government will provide. smile

      1. prettydarkhorse profile image57
        prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        LOLOLOL, morning

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image59
          Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Cash your happiness check early today pretty one.  There may be a shortage due to capitalist subterfuge.

          Actually, you usually seem happier than most.  Have you been getting happiness on the black market?  Should I report you?

          1. prettydarkhorse profile image57
            prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            hehehe, I am happier with life as always, but I also get MAD soon, as you might say

            might find difficulty finding a good date willing to share their money on dates LOL<

            LIFE is hard, hate it specially when Valentines is nearing

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image59
              Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Are you going to ask someone out this Valentine's day?

              1. prettydarkhorse profile image57
                prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                NO, dont have the nerve to do that, just wait hehehe

                1. Ron Montgomery profile image59
                  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You should work on that.  Go after what you want, don't just hope.

                  1. prettydarkhorse profile image57
                    prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Hmm, It is better if I just wait for it to come, who knows maybe one time, He will come to me and say, HEY BABY, are you looking for me, then I will smile, I will respond and SAY, YOURE long time coming, just kidding, it will come soon RON< better be earlier before the END OF CREDIT CARDS hehe

  10. Happyontheinside profile image72
    Happyontheinsideposted 14 years ago

    What do human beings actually need to live?
    We need heat, light, food, water, shelter - what we don't need is money.
    As a society we place love and trust in these tiny pieces of paper or metal...Money isn't necessary for us to live our lives - let me rephrase that; it is, but it shouldn't be. Why do we place so much trust in something man made, something that we could theoretically live without?
    I've said it before and I'll keep saying it till the day I die...Capitalism needs to change. We have the technology in our world right now to make sure that every person on the planet has everything they need to survive - but we don't furnish them with it because it is expensive. As human beings we have invented the monetary system as a reward scheme to make our lives seem meaningful...What use is a lawyer if there is no money? What use slaving your life away as a door to door salesman - you see where I am going with this?

    Yes I am an idealist - absolutely. But really; the economy is imaginary, money should be useless in order to attain true equality and our planet should be a safe and peaceful place that is uncorrupted by monetary greed or need.


  11. profile image0
    jerrylposted 14 years ago

    Livewithrichard,  Please show me anywhere that I proposed that the new money creation would involve indebtedness or loans.

    There are only 3 ways that money can enter into circulation.
    It can be gifted in, which would destroy all incentive to be productive.

    It can be loaned in, which is the current debt system that we operate under.  You can see where that had taken us.

    It can be spent in.  Under this system, the money would be created out of thin air just as it is done now, except it would be made available for the people to earn through their productivity, and then spent into circulation, (EARNED, NOT BORROWED), debt free interest free.

    Why do you assume that the people of one state would have to pay for the infrastructure of another state?  Show me where you got that idea.

    Neither the fed govt, or the state govt will dictate what infrastructure projects should be created.  It will be determined by the needs of the people and commerce.
    The treasury's only function will be to create the amount of the winning competitive bid, and debit it out of an asset monetization account, into a state transportation project account.
    The state will facilitate the transaction, and dole out the newly created money to the contractor, as the project progresses.

    Why is it that you can't think of money in terms of wealth rather than debt?

    Money earned and then spent into circulation does not have to be paid back to anyone and carries no interest debtload.  It lives on indefinitely.

    Money created through loans is debt.  It has to be paid back to the banksters and erased off the books, (UNCREATED).
    All the while the loan is active, interest has to be paid, and no money was created to pay that interest.

    Example:  A person wants to borrow $100,000 to buy a house.  The bankster approves, and has the person sign a loan agreement, mortgaging part of his next 30 years of productivity.

    Over the next 30 years, that person will pay approximately $200,000 in interest to that bankster.  What did the bankster do
    to earn that $200,000?  He did approximately 2 weeks of premortgage paper work, and mailed out monthly statements for 30 years.

    No money in the loan process was created to pay that $200,000 in interest.  Other people had to take out loans and spend the debt principle of their loans into circulation so it would be available for that first person to capture through commerce, enabling him to pay that interest to the banksters.

    Multiply that process by billions of loans and decades of this debt monetary system.  Where does it take you? 

    When you really stop to think about it, wasn't the money supposedly created by that bankster, actually created on that person's promise to pay?


  12. livewithrichard profile image73
    livewithrichardposted 14 years ago

    Jerryl, your theory supposes there is only ONE purpose for money that is only tied to productivity.  Your theory supposes that money will not lose value nor increase in value.  You do not take into account any of the money in the system that is not tied to productivity... paying for the cost of government(government produces nothing yet it employs millions of workers and purchases real property... the military produces nothing yet employs millions of workers and purchases real property.  Those are just 2 examples of how the overall value of money will decrease if it were only tied to productivity.

    You just don't get it... introducing any new money into the system will decrease it's overall value.  It weakens our dollar even more allowing foreign interests to to garner more equity in our country.

    How do you think the federal government is financed? Through tax dollars. You tell me how you "create money out of thin air" without creating debt. Every single penny the fed creates gets added to the national debt!

    Because this is how a central government functions. It pools the resources of many and redistributes by bureaucratic measures.

    Federal distribution mechanisms raise the issues of federal control and distributional equity. You cannot have an equitable distribution when the needs of 35 million outweigh the needs of half a million. This is the main reason why we have an electoral college for the presidential election.

    And what country do you live in where the people dictate the spending? In the US we have a representative government that assesses the needs of the people then requests the funding from the local legislature and then through the federal GRANT systems that are in place. When funds are gathered the competitive bid process begins. But the whole system gets flawed when there is corruption at every level.

    Because money is not wealth, it is a store of value that may or may not retain its value over time. Money is not constant. When money loses its value through inflationary means it becomes a storage of debt.  Why can't you see that?

    1. profile image0
      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this


      Please tell me how the money we pay taxes to fund our government is created and how does it move into circulation?


  13. livewithrichard profile image73
    livewithrichardposted 14 years ago

    Sorry, I don't have the time to teach an entire semester of macroeconomics but take a look at the chart below:!Circulation_in_macroeconomics.png

    But please show me how we transform our monetary system into a what,a virtual debit system? Social credit system?

    Explain to me how if we did this it wouldn't destroy the global economic system since nearly every world currency is tied to the US Dollar.

    Here's an idea, Make it a Hub this way you can formulate your argument and clearly state your objectives and your obstacles. 

    Personally, I don't see a need to replace our system. I see a need for accountability to stem corruption as much as possible.

    1. profile image0
      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Livewithrichard,  It is just as I thought. You couldn't answer my question.  Your chart shows roughly, how debt money circulates, but doesn't show how it is created and how it moves into circulation initially.  Debt money does not have reproductive capabilities, it has to be created, and there has to be a method by which it gets into circulation initially. It just doesn't flop into the hands of the consumers or the corporations.

      You seem to be satisfied with a system that has placed this nation over 60 trillion in total debt, and also has another 60 trillion in unfunded obligations. What a success story that is!

      Every bit of information that was the basis for what I proposed, came from answers to letters written to the federal reserve, the treasury, and the library of congress. I still wait for an answer.


  14. livewithrichard profile image73
    livewithrichardposted 14 years ago

    As for how money is initially created and put into the system, look it up yourself Jerryl its in Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution.

    Your numbers are unsubstantiated(show actual proof of the 60T debt) and unfunded obligations are not a guarantee of payment (I imagine you are suggesting Social Security, medicare and other welfare programs are the obligations which take into account individuals that cannot even attempt to collect on for 65 years).  Pleased with debt, hardly, I'm completely disgusted with the systemic corruption at all levels of government and what your plan calls for can only mean larger government and more corruption.

    I suggested you make a hub with your proposal so we can see your ideas in a way that is not scattered over several pages of a forum post. Maybe with a hub you can do a better job at convincing someone else that you have a sound plan.

    By not answering a simple question as to how you transform our monetary system into your monetary system without destroying the entire global economic system it tells me you don't have a full grasp of the situation.  Now if you come back with more questions for me to answer then don't even bother. I've already stated at several points in this thread what I think of your plan.

    1. profile image0
      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this


      Article 1 section 8 states: Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes, duties,imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States.

      Congress also has the power to borrow money on the credit of the United States.

      It further states that congress shall have the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof.

      This in no way tells us how money is created under this debt monetary system, or how it moves initially into circulation.

      This is what you told me to look up.  I did! Now show me in those words in Article 1 section 8 where it tells us how money is created and how it moves into circulation!

      As far as I can see, it doesn't even come close to revealing the answers to the questions. 

      As to you not having time to teach a full semester of macroeconomics:  If you have the ability to teach a whole semester, it shouldn'rt take but a few sentences to answer my previous questions!

      I am still waiting for your pearls of wisdom!


      1. Friendlyword profile image59
        Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Hi Jerryl
        Does this Idea of moving your money to small commminity banks have any merit?  Would it at least give us the illusion of fighting the large banks? … 06022.html

        1. profile image0
          jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Friendlyword,  Nowhere in my posts did I mention moving money to smaller community banks.  My proposal was about creating money without debt or interest, then spend that money into circulation to pay the people that do the production.  Production that benefits the community as a whole.


        2. profile image0
          jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Friendlyword,  Sorry I didn't answer your question as well as I could have.  As far as the smaller community banks goes, the newly created money would circulate through the economy just as it does now, with the exception that it wouldn't be created as debt, and wouldn't carry an interest debt load.

          Under my proposal, eventually, all banks would have to go to a fee for service type of business.

          It would eventually take away a lot of the power of the big banksters.  If they lose the power to create money out of thin air, and collect interest on something they loaned out that they never had in the first place.  Money buys power.  Without the control of our monetary system, the banks power would go into rapid decline.

          What have we got to lose?  Our current system has mortgaged us, our children and grandchildren to the hilt.  It's time for a change.  Bring the power back to the people.  Let's get back to a government of, by and for the people.


          1. Friendlyword profile image59
            Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you for your answer.  I really hope you can help me understand this better. I dont know enough to really say; but dont large banks have so much power already, it's really too late for anybody to do anything about it? They can actually rob THE UNITED STATES TREASURY whenever they want to. They have the world over a barrel. What can anyone possibly do to fight institutions that powerful?

            1. profile image0
              jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Friendlyword,  You are right, it is an uphill battle, fighting the banksters. Add to that, a congress that bows to their every whim, and you see the problem.

              This debt system is a never ending upward spiral of indebtedness.

              Every dollar we have in circulation has been borrowed by someone, or some entity!

              To illustrate how this works, lets say there is absolutely no money existing.  We want to start up this debt system from scratch.  I will be the banker, and you the first borrower.

              You need $10,000.  I, the banker, agree to loan you that amount.
              Lets keep it simple, and say that I am going to charge you 10%
              interest.  I have you sign a loan agreement, mortgaging a portion of your future productivity. Also, If you have anything of value, I may have you use that as collateral.

              The deal is made.  I set up a checking account for you, and deposit $10,000 into it.  Keep in mind, that I only had to have $1,000 in reserves, and the rest I create on your promise to pay.

              Now you have this money in your bank account, and write checks out throughout your community. Here is the problem.  How do you pay me back $11,000, when only $10,000 was actually created?

              Remember, this is the only money that is existing, and there was no money created in this process to pay the interest on your loan.

              Now I make the same deal with your neighbor.  He decides he wants his yard dug up with a stick, and will pay you $1,000 to do it.  YOu agree.  Now you have enough money to pay me, the banker my $1,000 in interest.  So you break even.  That's assuming you have somehow recaptured the $10,000 you initially spent into circulation. Which means you are back to square one.

              Now your neighbor, has to find a way to capture $2,000 back, because of his interest, and the $1,000 you captured from him to pay your interest.

              Mulitply this process by billions of loans and decades of fraud, and you can see how we got so deep into debt.  This does not take into consideration all of the other fraud being commited every day.

              The problem lies in how money is created, and how it gets into circulation.  If we borrow, it is debt with no money created to pay the interest.

              If it's earned and then spent in, it's wealth money.

              When government borrows, you pay for the loan and interest in higher taxes.  However, we can no longer pay for the loans, just service the interest, and yet we must still keep raising the debt ceiling.

              When corporate America borrows, you pay their loans and interest, it higher prices for their products and/or services.

              When you borrow, you must pay your own.

              In most home mortgage loans, the banks can foreclose and take possession of your home if you default, then resell it.  Isn't it ironic that the bankster didn't have to take any risk?

              On a $100,000 mortgage, a bank will collect approximately $200,000 in interest, that no money was created to pay. This means that others must borrow and spend into circulation for the money to exist so that borrower can capture through commerce, some of the debt principle of other people loans.  This is the only way he can possibly pay the interest to the banker.

              I hope this explains things a little better.  The problem is to get congress to act on behalf of the people, not special interests.


      2. mdburks profile image60
        mdburksposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        jerryl, the congress gave up the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof. In 1913 with the  federal Reserve act to the Federal reserve bank that ia a private bank and controlled by corrupt Bankers,that print money at will with out anything to back it up.

        1. profile image0
          jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          mdburks,  I realize that the fed res has control.  I agree with you.  I was just answering a post from livewithrichard.  I realize that the system is corrupt, and that is what I am proposing to change to an honest sustainable system.


  15. Cagsil profile image71
    Cagsilposted 14 years ago

    There is not problem with the American based dollar. The monetary problems are people controlled. This makes the task difficult, to avoid corruption.

    However, I've written about this a few a Hubs about different portions of the economic problems. What seems to be amiss is that everyone is attacking each other and not seriously looking at the underlying issue of the bigger problem at hand. If you are not aware of a bigger problem at hand, then I think you obviously haven't been paying as close attention to detail, as you had hoped for the last 30 years.

    The individual person gets wrapped up in their daily life, so much so, you're automatically guided thru routine. This is the docile workforce created to suppport the Government controlled Employment program.

    The Employment program was introduced shortly after slavery died?

    DUH! Do you not see the writing on the wall?

    To get a better understanding, the underlying problem people do not realize is that in order to live in America and not live within poverty-style levels, then you MUST be a self-employed person. This is the only true way to built wealth and achieve a comfortable level for living in America.

    The knowledge missing is that it is a MUST do. Otherwise, you will be working for the effort of others and not so much for yourself. You'll be giving away all your hard earned cash, to support those who don't know any better.

    The system of Government is broken, because of the stranglehold on Congress by the Businesses that make up our Economy.

    More trusting people need to be taking care of Treasury. The Federal Reserve Bank, which is to be independent, should remain that way.

    Too much government invasion into people's lives, needs to come to an end.

    Do I have a solution to fix the Economic problem? Yes, I do. All politicians work without any base salary for 1 complete year. Their work is suppose to be FOR the citizens, we pay their salary.

    The Election Law(s) need to be revamped, but not a clue about that. I do know that voting for the lessor of two evils is not going to fix the problem. I also wrote about this in a Hub recently publish, about the duty of a citizen.

    Your individual vote is your power/voice in America. If YOU cannot back a candidate, then hold your vote. Sooner or later, the message will be seen and received.

    We need more responsible adults in America, ones who understand the task at hand, and want to work together for a solution, that can make society evolve forward. We don't need Government evolving into anything more than it already is today.

    I know, I ramble. But, I digress. With that said, my rant is over. smile

  16. livewithrichard profile image73
    livewithrichardposted 14 years ago

    Cagsil I agree with some of what you say, as I am self employed and fully realize the benefits.

    I don't think cutting the pay of legislators will have any effect at all since most people that get into politics get into it for the power. The money will come later and not in the form of a pay check from congress but in the consulting arena and speaking circuit and lobby groups.

    Term limits is the answer at least for congress but congress will never vote for limits which is why we have to initiate it at the state level through ballot initiatives. We let the people vote in each state on it.

    If we get rid of the corrupting factors then the system works. There needs to be accountability at all levels of government and also with the federal reserve bank.

  17. livewithrichard profile image73
    livewithrichardposted 14 years ago

    If you can't comprehend the ramifications of that Article then how could you ever comprehend my "pearls of wisdom?"

    I don't need an answer, you've shown your intelligence here. Are you going to enlighten us to your plan in a hub or are you afraid the "banksters" might find out?

    I have addressed everything you've asked me to address now it's time for you to put up or shut up. Your game tires me so go try and sell your idea to someone else.

    1. profile image0
      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this




      1. “The actual creation of money always involves the extension of credit from
             Private commercial banks”
             Russell L Munk, Assistant General Counsel, Department of the Treasury

      2.   “Money is created when loans are issued and debts incurred.”
            “ Money is extinguished when loans are repaid.”
               John B Henderson, Senior specialist in price economics, congressional research
                Service report No. 83-125E

      3.       “Thus the money that one borrower uses to pay interest on a loan has been
                created somewhere else in the economy by another loan.”
                John M Yetter  Attorney advisor, Department of the treasury

      4.       “Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or
                  credit.  If the banks create ample synthetic money we prosper; If not, we
                  Starve.  We are absolutely without a permanent money system.  When one
                  gets  a complete grasp of the picture,  the tragic absurdity of our hopeless
                  position is almost incredible. But there it is.  It is the most important subject
                  intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon.”
                  Robert H Hemphill, credit manager of the federal reserve bank of Atlanta



  18. yenajeon profile image72
    yenajeonposted 14 years ago

    Its called government needs to put regulations in place. And the housing crisis. Is should have been illegal for banks to give out loans for mortgages they knew people could not pay. And then selling out those customers in bundles for a profit (aka agressively pushing mortgage backed securities) naturally creates an economic crisis.
    Secularization, extremely risky leverages, slack lending practices, very long extended interest rates and I could go on forever all contributed to the current economic crisis.

    The govt. obviously needs to step in with new laws, but of course they cant bc then they'd be called communists!

    1. profile image0
      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yenajeon,  Congress could step in with new laws, but then TPTB would quit financing their reelection campaigns.


      1. yenajeon profile image72
        yenajeonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I mean you're right, obviously its just an answer that wont actually happen.
        I definitely agree though that the federal res needs to be audited because we are just letting corruption happen.

  19. profile image0
    jerrylposted 14 years ago

    Let's look at another problem this debt system causes because of it's inflationary nature.

    People get angry with corporations when thry move out of the country.  Let's look at reality.  Businesses operate under the same debt system that you and I do.

    When my taxes go up, I ask my boss for a raise.  He says he cannot afford it, but will give it to me anyway.  Now he has to raise the price of his products and/or services.

    The government is also one of his customers, and now has to pay more for his product.  So now the government must raise my taxes again, and I have to ask for another raise.  The debt spiral never ends.

    Add to this, trying to compete on a global level, causes even more problems.  In order to compete, the business must look for other ways to cut costs.  First it's cut the quality of the product. Next comes cuts in wages and benefits.  Then it's cut the number of hours worked and expect more productivity.  Next, it's downsizing.  Then outsourcing by hiring immigrant labor on the cheap, making sure to keep them under a certain number of hours weekly, to avoid paying for benefits.  Finally, when all else fails. it's relocate to another country, and take advantage of very low wage workers. No doubt there is a lot of corporate greed, but in actuality, this system was designed for most people and businesses to fail.  That is unless the government determines that they are too big to fail!

    Just look at how many company pension plans are in trouble.  How many companies are cutting back on benefits? Look back in memory at how many companies that were big name businesses, went out of business.

    This debt system with it's usury interest, is sinister.


  20. profile image0
    jerrylposted 14 years ago

    Friendlyword,  You asked what anybody could do to take the power away from the banksters? 

    The first thing is to try to educate the masses.  I would say that 99.99 % of the people, haven't a clue as to the nature of this debt monetary system.  Most of them think that money is just out there!

    The best audiences are the people who are affected most.

    People that have had to declare bankruptcy, people that have lost their homes, and students who are having to pay higher and higher education costs.  The sad part about the students is, that by the time they achieve that high cost degree, their job has probably been outsourced.  Which means that they may be paying for a dead horse.


  21. MikeNV profile image69
    MikeNVposted 14 years ago

    The "Blame" goes to those who have created the system and continue to support it.

    Executive Order 11110 does nothing.  Timothy Geithner is the Treasury Secretary and former NY Federal Reserve Chairman think about that.

    Ron Paul has introduced several bills to abolish the Fed and they just get voted out.

    Ron Paul has introduced HR 1207 and look who is against it. … e-hr-1207/

    Every person on this list who is against auditing the Federal Reserve should be voted out.

    There is no reason to allow private bankers to continue to control the money supply at all... let alone in secrecy.

    Once exposed the public support will be overwhelming to abolish the Fed.

    Then we remove the Fractional Reserve System all together.  And stop the New World Order.

    Stop giving our lands to the United Nations.  Cancel Agreements wtih the United Nations to control what we do.

    There is a long list of things that need to happen, otherwise we will become a police state.

    And under a police state the people who are against guns now will quickly change sides.

    People simply can not see the evil of the plan that is already in play.  And it extends way past just the United States.  There are over 100 Central Banks in the World and they all enslave their people.

    1. profile image0
      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      MikeNV,  Great post.  I agree about the fed res needing to be audited.  Secrecy in an organization like that is a sure sign of corruption in my book.

      Isn't it ironic, that we have sent a great deal of our manufacturing base to China, displacing millions of workers here.  We have been bumping up their economy, so we can continue to borrow from them.  Our government and corporate heads are killing our own markets.

      This fractional banking debt monetary system must be eliminated.
      What other choice is there?


      1. Friendlyword profile image59
        Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Back to the over a barrel part of my post. Any attempt to regulate, or change the banking system will make the bankers pull the trigger, close the banks and drive the world into a depression.  There's nothing we can do but bend over. Please tell me I'm wrong.

        1. creepy profile image56
          creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          youre wrong  anything else you need

        2. Pr0metheus profile image59
          Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Well, the problem is power.  The bankers have the power.  We could have the government take over, but then the government would have the power.  I say we pull the trigger.  Let society degenerate and hope that a phoenix arises from the ashes.

          1. creepy profile image56
            creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            youve put a lot of thought into this

            1. Pr0metheus profile image59
              Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Not sure if that was sarcastic or not... but yes, I have.  Probably too much.

  22. profile image0
    jerrylposted 14 years ago

    Friendlyword,  I don't believe that our unemployment is only 10%.  During the great depression, the rate was in the 30% area.

    How much further do you think we have to go?  There would be a lot of problems with the banks contracting the money supply too much.  Many of our major corporations based overseas, depend on the U.S. markets heavily. 

    I don't think they are ready to pull the pin. As long as they can find more ways to prolong the inevitable, they will milk us for all they can.  We also have 2 wars going on.  If bad comes to worse, the people will want to abandon the wars, and start taking care of things here at home.  If we can afford wars, we can afford to feed the people.

    I also think the banksters fear that the public will eventually wake up to how they have been screwed over for decades.  If the public ever united in large enough numbers, there could possibly be some serious headhunting going on.


    1. Friendlyword profile image59
      Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you Jerryl.  That's a plan, but, the rich and the banks own the media. You cant wake up the people.

      1. profile image0
        jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Friendlyword,  You would be amazed at how many people you can reach, and at what speed, on the internet.

        Some friends of mine have a site that got approximately 300,000 hits last year. Who kows how many forwarded the link to others.

        That's at least a start.

        As I said in an earlier post, We have been lobbying the state legislature in Minnesota for about 14 years.  We have a proposal that would allow the monetary change to happen on a state level. It's called the Minnesota transportation act.

        Each year we get anywhere from 25 to 35 sponsors for our bill.
        However, when push comes to shove, the legislators side with the bankers lobby.  We never give up. We are like pit bulls.

        Eventually the legislators on both the state and federal levels will run out of ways to rob from Peter to pay Paul. That's when
        the change could happen.


  23. profile image0
    jerrylposted 14 years ago

    Here is something for you to look at.


  24. Friendlyword profile image59
    Friendlywordposted 14 years ago

    14 years...FOURTEEN YEARS!!! ARE YOU CRAZY??? Give it up. Even a Pit Bull lets go eventually.

    1. profile image0
      jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Friendlyword,  Giving up is exactly what TPTB count on in their efforts to dumb down the public.

      Why even have forums then?

      Most of us at times complain about the ignorance and apathy of the masses.

      My friends and I are trying very hard to educate them, and bring about change to this corrupt system.

      If everyone gives up, what kind of future will we leave for our children and grandchildren?

      No reflection on you personally, but in attempts to get people to take action, I sometimes use the following analogy.

      Why is it that a person who has had their house burglatized, or has been the victim of a robbery, will immediately call the police and demand action, yet, that same person, after being taught about how the banksters have been systematically ruining their financial future, and the future of their children and grandchildren, through theft by deception, will say things like,  "you can't fight city hall", or, "what can I do about it, I'm just one person"?     

      It's those attitudes that keep us fighting for what is right!
      What would happen to society if everyone gave up? People talk about how more and more of their freedoms are being taken away everyday.  You cannot stop TPTB, without the will and drive to stay the course.

      You can bet that my friends and I will be pounding on the doors
      of the state capitol again, lobbying for change in monetary policies.



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