The GOP is Blocking the Ability to Pay for Their Own Debts

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  1. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 12 months ago

    https://hubstatic.com/15743138.jpg

    Democrats have the votes to raise the debt ceiling with a straight up and down vote.  The GOP chose to filibuster the ability to raise it.  This is not about future spending, this is about paying for the debts already incurred, including the $7.8 trillion added while they had control of government. 

    In essence, they are preventing the raise that would pay for their own previous spending.  At this point, the GOP is trying to hurt the recovery from the pandemic by playing politics with the economy.

    There is the difference between the parties.  The Democrats set aside politics on this issue during the Trump term, raising it three times.  One party puts the good of the country ahead of politics.  The other is willing to cause harm for power - actually for stupidity.

    I do hope this causes the end of the filibuster.  On one hand McConnell says the Democrats should raise it themselves.  Then on the other, McConnell uses the filibuster to prevent them from doing just that.  At that point, this is the GOP trying to actively hurt America.  Hopefully, the Senators now see the need to take away this ability from the GOP if they are going to use it in such a reckless manner.

    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Yes, there is a vast difference between the parties.  One holds the nation's infrastructure as hostage while it campaigns for a multi-trillion dollar increase in useless and wasteful spending;  causing harm for power - actually stupidity.

      One spreads illegal aliens throughout the country and creates "safe zones" for more illegal aliens, causing harm for power - actually stupidity.

      One allows burning of our cities without attempts to stop it, causing harm for power - actually stupidity.

      One spends money like water in an effort to dig up dirt on our President, causing harm for power - actually stupidity.

      And the really comical part is that this business of refusing to raise the debt ceiling has been going on for years and years, with most years running into the same problem.  An inability, or unwillingness, for either party to control its spending.  But suddenly (as happens most years) only one party is responsible for all of it.

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Climate change is not useless unless you are uneducated on the topic.

        'Spreading illegals' is a racist term for allowing asylum claims.

        No one allowed the burning of cities, that's just a lie.

        The Mueller investigation actually made a profit, another blatant lie.

        And the really comical part is that the GOP only refuses to raise the debt ceiling when a Democrat is in office, after their party has run the government so badly that budgets need to be raised to recover from their mismanagement.

        1. wilderness profile image94
          wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          Illegally crossing the border, and being called on it, is racist?  You have a very, very strange definition of what "racist" means.

          For sure, Portland immediately stopped the burning when it happened...or at least months later, when it died down for the winter season anyway.  Now, you can claim that Portland took immediate, effective action to stop the riots but everyone in the country knows better (including, I'm sure, you).

          1. Valeant profile image86
            Valeantposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Yeah, because it's not illegal to claim asylum - so you calling them illegals just because they are from other countries is pretty damned racist. 

            So now it's Portland that didn't immediately stop the burning of cities.  Just before it was the Democratic party that allowed it.  Which is it, you don't even sound sure that you know.  And you know what happened when Trump sent his people in, the rioting got worse.  So yeah, he didn't stop it either, he added to it.

            1. wilderness profile image94
              wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              You really DO have a different definition for "racist".  You should check a dictionary; "racist" has nothing to do with illegal actions, only the race of the criminal.  Which I never mentioned.

              Did Trump "add" to the burning of federal buildings?  He wasn't allowed to do any more; did he add to that specific threat that he was there to protect?  Or did he prevent it from happening?

              1. Valeant profile image86
                Valeantposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                You didn't need to mention it, it was implied with who you were referencing by falsely claiming that those seeking asylum are illegal. 

                The rioting was abating when Trump sent in troops and poured gasoline on the situation.

                https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi … nd/614635/

                https://www.npr.org/2020/07/19/89282685 … d-protests

                https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 … nder-trump

                https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc … -to-police

    2. GA Anderson profile image90
      GA Andersonposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Why do you think this instance is any different from past Democrat votes to block raising the limit?

      GA

      1. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        And when did Democrats vote to block raising the limit, as you claim?  I did a quick search, but could not find those results.

        And do you not see any issue with blocking the payment of past debts as a means of protest for potential future spending that pays for itself without adding more debt to the country?

        The 'we will default on our loans because you want to raise taxes back to moderate levels that the country had during a six-year period of decent economic and job growth' argument really makes very little sense.

        1. GA Anderson profile image90
          GA Andersonposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          You will have to look for the specifics yourself but in my brief look-around the years 2003, 2005, 2006, and 2007(?) were mentioned as years when the Democrats voted against raising the limit.

          As for your thought about blocking past debts, look for Sen. Biden's 2006 explanation then appears the same as McConnel's stated reason now.

          It looks like both sides are selling a spotted cow and you are just arguing about the number of spots on the cow that make yours different.

          GA

          1. IslandBites profile image88
            IslandBitesposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Partisan posturing between the parties over the debt isn’t unusual. But what is unusual this time is that Republicans are going further than the minority party has in the past by using the filibuster to force the Democrats to increase the debt limit.

            Democrats did not filibuster debt limit increases in 2003, 2004 and 2006, allowing Senate Republicans to raise the debt limit with a simple majority, said Andrew Carothers, a research analyst at the Bipartisan Policy Center.

            https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 … imit-usua/

            1. Valeant profile image86
              Valeantposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              True, using the filibuster is an added stop not taken previously as McConnell even notes when he quotes Biden in 2006 when he says the Republicans had to vote to do it alone - something the Democrats are more than willing to do, but McConnell is now setting a new precedent on.

              GA - the ball's back in your court.  Care to explain why else to block the Democrats from being able to do this so simply?

              1. GA Anderson profile image90
                GA Andersonposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                I wouldn't think you need more than Sen. Biden's 2006 words to answer your question.

                It appears the historical record shows that both parties know the limits will be raised, ( as Sen. Biden stated), and their blocking efforts are just political theater. And the complaint that their opponent isn't playing by the rules just sounds like whining.

                It is difficult to view your charges as having any more substance than just rationalizations of why what they are doing is worse than what you did.

                I have little doubt that if the table was turned you would be supporting your party's actions as legit.

                GA

                1. Valeant profile image86
                  Valeantposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  Perhaps. 

                  Did Biden lie to the American public when he made his case for opposing the debt ceiling being raised?  Let's go over the lies McConnell was feeding the American public on this topic:

                  1.)  He said that Democrats could raise the ceiling if they wanted as he then used the filibuster to block their ability to do just that.  Democrats have zero doubts that a few Senators would have blown up the reconciliation process during the spend-a-rama phase as a few publicly admitted they would do just that.
                  2.)  He says the block of the debt ceiling was to prevent Democrats from spending in the future, when in actuality the debt ceiling needs to be raised to pay for previous debts.
                  3.)  Along those lines, he continues to say the Democrats are big spenders when his own party mismanages the debt to the tune of $7.8 trillion over just four years.
                  4.)  He falsely tries to convince his followers that the Infrastructure and Social Safety Net bills will add debt when they have provisions to pay for themselves by moving the tax rate back to levels when the country had solid growth.

                  Look, I would support policy to limit adding more debt to the nation.  I'm still not sure why we don't have a balanced budget law to address added debt instead of trying to force a default.  But if you're going to support such blatant lying from McConnell on this topic, we won't see eye-to-eye on the issue.

                  1. GA Anderson profile image90
                    GA Andersonposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    Nope, let's not "go over" any of the details, whether they be lies, facts, or opinions. At least, not until we can find some consensus on a basic starting point.

                    In my view, in each of the past instances of debt ceiling battles, the majority party makes claims that the minority is, in various words and phrasing, unamerican, and the minority party, also in various words and phrases, unleashes claims of anti-liberty anti-Republic behavior against the majority.

                    Over and over, with the only difference being the switching of majority and minority party names.

                    I think that is the point that should first be settled before attempting to judge any pro or con argument. Do you disagree? Do you disagree with my view of all previous debt limit battles?

                    GA

            2. GA Anderson profile image90
              GA Andersonposted 12 months agoin reply to this

              Hi there Islandmom. I see the Republican move as just politics. A detail that doesn't change the fact that both parties have tried to block the move.

              I don't see the Republican threat to fillibuster as any different from Democrat tactics, (such as their use of the reconciliation path to pass what they want). In the end, both efforts demand compromise. I see in today's news that McConnel has offered possible compromise paths.

              My point is that both parties did and will do it, and these claims by Democrats against Republicans are no different than what they themselves have done and Republicans bashed them for.

              I am hearing these Democrat bashings as hypocritical complaints that don't reflect well on those that express them. On this issue, I think their hands are as dirty as the ones they are complaining about.

              GA

  2. Credence2 profile image77
    Credence2posted 12 months ago

    Republicans say "the country be damned". A case for disgusting hypocrisy and partisanship, a low that Democrats did not descend to during the Trump regime.

    1. GA Anderson profile image90
      GA Andersonposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Does your logic apply to past Democrat "no" votes concerning raising the debt ceiling?

      Of course, this is a hot talking point among Republicans but does that fact change the issue that apparently* Sen. Biden gave the same reasons then as McConnel is giving now?
      * I didn't dig any deeper so maybe Sen. Biden and other Democrat no votes weren't for the reason Biden stated.

      GA

      1. Credence2 profile image77
        Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Fair enough, what is good for the goose....

        I have to see specifically when and why the Democrats refused to raise the debt limit. It would have seemed inappropriate in the aftermath of 9-11.

    2. Ken Burgess profile image86
      Ken Burgessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      https://hubstatic.com/15745731.jpg


      Trump added 8 Trillion in debt (4 years)...

      Just $676 Billion added under Biden (8 months)...

      By not [adding Trillions more in debt] Mitch McConnel is refusing to pay the debts he rang up with Trump.

      And they spout such garbage out to the public every day, and a certain percentage of it laps it up.

      You can fool some of the people all of the time, and that is the percentage that allows you to get away with corruption and criminal activity while calling it Democracy and Government.

      1. gmwilliams profile image84
        gmwilliamsposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        +100000000000

      2. Valeant profile image86
        Valeantposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Not sure someone who buys into the big lie of election 'fraud' should consider themselves a good judge of knowing when anyone is being fooled.

  3. Valeant profile image86
    Valeantposted 12 months ago

    The rules of reconciliation would also require Democrats to raise the debt limit to a specific dollar figure, instead of simply suspending it, giving Republicans a campaign attack line.

    This whole thing is about giving the GOP something to campaign with.   When we say McConnell is doing this for politics, this is what we mean.  He is willing to jeopardize the economy for a campaign slogan.

 
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