Terrorists Arrested

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   theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

   7 foreign nationals have been arrested in Ireland accused of being involved in a plot to kill a Cartoonist who made a cartoon about a Muslim God - is this a bit extreme?

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      foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Not sure what you mean. Is it extreme that people want to kill a journalist over a cartoon? Or is it extreme to arrest seven people?
         Anyway, the answer is yes and no. This investigation has been ongoing since October. Irish Authorities were notified by the FBI in June that sleeper cells were being established in Ireland. And their target was the journalist. I find it incredible that it takes this many people, and this much planning, to carry out a hit on one person. But that's how Muslims do things and, for the most part, they still fail. Anyway, what's troubling is that Ireland can only hold these people for another 72 hours. Great Britain is used to home-grown terrorists. But not the United States. So this story is being watch very carefully.
         There have been numerous posts on HubPages about Muslims being peaceful and that Islam is not radical. But if a Muslim emir stood before a congregation and said, "Go out and kill infidels!" the congregation would blindly do so. To kill over a cartoon has nothing to do with religion. Islam is instead a political ideology that uses fear and terror to maintain cohesion not  unlike a dictator. For some odd reason Muslims insist on living in Western countries. There should be a fatwa on whoever put out the welcome mat.

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         Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         There are more than one varieties of Islam and many, many different varieties of Muslims. You are greatly over-generalizing about Islam and Muslims.

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            foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Overgeneralizing?! I think not. There is one common denominator on these various sects of Islam: The Koran. That book, by itself, ranks up there with Sun Tzu's "Art of War." The Koran is an eternal fatwa that proclaims domination and death to anyone who does not follow its dictates. It is explicit in its condemnation of liberal thought and the  consequences are death by blunt sword. Yes, Christianity has had its historic failings. But Christianity is no longer governed by 13th Century barbarism.

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               china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               But this is exactly the problem most people have with christianity now - if it had kept up with things and become a dynamic modern social tool I for one could at least live with it - but it has returned to its vicious old ways in many places, the only modern thing about it is that it has learned to lobby to get the wars it wants more easily.
               
               And before anyone dumps Youtube links to good stuff - there has always been good stuff and people within religious groups of all kinds - along with the inquisition and general bloodthirstiness.

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                  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  "But this is exactly the problem most people have with christianity now "
                  
                  Do "most people" have a problem with Christianity?
                  
                  
                  And, you keep referring to "youtube links" but I don't see all these links to youtube that seem to be haunting you.

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               Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Just as there are many non-fundamentalist Christians there are plenty of non-fundamentalist, non-jihadist, non-terrorist supporting Muslims. In my opinion, You are painting with an unjustifiedly broad brush.

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      2. 62

         TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         No.
         
         It is not extreme.
         
         Shari'a calls for death, in any case of slander against the prophet momo or allah.

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      earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Just a wee bit!

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      waynetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yes extreme it is!!!

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      paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friends
      
      They are a mislead people; they should have written their point of view in the newspaper; that was the only requirement. Why kill people when it is not allowed in Quran/Islam? Muhammad never did it; he was a peaceful man.
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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2. 60

   theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

   This article appears in irishtimes.com
   
   Two for court over 'murder plot'
   
   Two people are due before Waterford District Court this morning in connection with an international investigation into an alleged plot to murder a Swedish cartoonist.
   
   Last night, five others brought before a special sitting of the court had their period of detention extended at the request of gardaí.
   
   The four men and three women were all arrested on Tuesday in Waterford and Cork as part of an international investigation into alleged death threats against cartoonist Lars Vilks.
   
   It is alleged an American woman dubbed “Jihad Jane” at the centre of an alleged plot to murder a Swedish cartoonist “sponsored” a number of Muslims in Ireland on extremist websites before travelling here to meet them.
   
   Gardaí believe Colleen Renee LaRose, who has been under arrest in connection with the alleged murder plot in the US since last October, first befriended a number of foreign nationals living in Ireland on websites.
   
   It appears she “sponsored” them, or vouched for them, to those regulating the sites. This resulted in some of the individuals now under arrest in Ireland being given passwords to private internet chat rooms where the alleged plot to kill cartoonist Lars Vilks was discussed.
   
   Ms LaRose, a 46-year-old US citizen, visited Ireland last August on an apparently aborted trip to Sweden. While here, she met some of the seven people arrested in Waterford and Cork on Tuesday. Gardaí were tipped off by the FBI last October about the Irish link to the alleged murder plot. A Garda investigation was put in place aimed at covertly gathering as much information as possible on the Irish-based suspects.
   
   The Irish Times  understands about 25 people here who knew them have been informally spoken to by gardaí.
   
   Gardaí have been trying to assess if any of those under arrest tried to radicalise any of their Muslim associates or if they tried to put in place the resources that might aid the alleged plot to kill Mr Vilks, such as organising safe houses here.

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      foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It would be interesting to do a psychological study on these people. Ms. LaRose has had a troubled past including several marriages and some minor convictions. But why did she choose Islam? Does Islam provide an "acceptable" means to get back at the world? Anyway, all of these people will be set free after their extensions are up. Then they can set up sleeper cells elsewhere and start over. After all, they do have rights. I thought Ireland was relatively Muslim-free. I guess I was wrong.

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         china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         They must be out of their minds if they thought they could discuss this online without it getting picked up by the listeners.

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         Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Why did she choose Islam? Good question. We wonder why one of our nieces, a high school valedictorian, National Merit Scholar, gave up an education and scholarship at Princeton to go to a Roman Catholic school run by a very strict order or sect. Now she's in a cloister in California where she's hardly allowed to communicate with anyone outside other than a monthly call from her parents. She was not allowed to leave to go to her sister's wedding. She spends the day praying and doing a bit of gardening. What a waste of talent! She was seduced into an unrecognized Catholic sect in high school by a fanatical Latin teacher. The sect is not recognized by the Vatican. Only Latin mass is allowed. I believe it calls itself the Society of St. Pius X and is headed by "Cardinal" Lefevre from France.
         
         Even worse off were the followers of the Rev. Jim Jones who were induced to commit a mass suicide at Jones' colony in Guyana.
         http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

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            foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry to hear about your niece, who obviously has/had a great talent that could have been served better elsewhere. But, generally speaking, people who seek religious sects outside the mainstream are missing something in their lives. They are subsequently easily fooled into thinking that theirs is a higher existence. It's a form of mass hysteria capitalized on by fanatics and their insidious kool-aid. It's very likely that your niece will tire of this game and will seek an escape. The intelligent ones usually do.

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   Iamsamposted 14 years ago

   bad luck

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   theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

   Have to agree with you China Man - imagine discussing that on line - if they had done it here the Report button would have been ringing ha ha When I asked was it extreme I was asking if even considering killing the cartoonist was extreme - I wonder are the Christian mafia after some here or here abouts

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   bgpappaposted 14 years ago

   th the last comment, there are those that read the Bible and come up with extreme rationals as well.  The good in Christianity is the million of people who don't read that way but read it to mean peace.  The Koran has its crazy sects as well, but millions who don't observe those extremist views.

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      china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I can agree with this without any problem - all the religions have a thread of peace and love within them - and many people who just live their daily life without invoking the extremist views that are also there if you look to find them.  All the books are written by people and they contain human good and bad.
      
      It may be of interest - Chinese tend in everything to look for the balance position, the 'golden mean' - this means that they often prefer to do nothing and wait as everything we do (cause) has a counter (effect) and cycles of behaviour and conflict are kept going by 'actions' good and bad.  Just look at the religious wars going on in these forums.
      
      This may be a lesson we could learn - we create our own oppositions by our actions, even if those actions are prompted by the actions of others. If we had not done (whatever we did) then there would not be the affect, terrorism.

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   mikelongposted 14 years ago

   "But that's how Muslims do things and, for the most part, they still fail."
   
   
   "These people.."
   
   
   To many Muslims, creating a likeness of Muhammad is considered extremely profane... And this is something that is well known. If one wants to be reckless, irresponsible, and insulting to people, then one should find a very sore spot and punch it as hard as possible....
   
   Now, while many Christians have no problem making graven images (which is against the 10 Commandments and in contradiction to overwhelming Biblical precedent forbidding such behavior)........
   
   Yet, what if a person decided to make t-shirts of Jesus "playing with Children"........taking the Biblical references to a sexually deviant extreme....would Christians somewhere try to "take care of this"?  If so, while there may be some who work through legal channels.....will there be others who come up with other "taking matters into own hands" approaches?
   
   I think so....
   
   The KKK is strictly espoused in Christianity....and believe their version to be the true way.....and they kill people, plot assassinations, and have a far more immediate danger for Americans in the United States than any "jihad."
   
   So....what about "Gay Jesus" t-shirts....any buyers?

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      Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      "The KKK is strictly espoused in Christianity...."
      
      
      You might want to reconsider the syntax of that sentence.
      
      
      "have a far more immediate danger for Americans in the United States than any "jihad.""
      
      Really? When was the last mass terror attack anywhere by the KKK?

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         Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah he needs to reconsider both statements.
         Looks like he's been watchin' old videos of the radical anti-white Jeremiah Wright's.

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      china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I would agree with this.
      
      It would appear that they are part of the problem that caused the Jihad issues anyway - of course they are seated in, or with, fundamental Christianity and this is where support for the attack on Islam is based. Supported in spirit (if you pardon the pun) by a Pope who was in the Hitler youth and who carefully insulted Islam in one of his earliest speeches. Racism and Christianity  hand in hand.

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         Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         As atheism and bigotry apparently go hand in hand.

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            Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            That is a ridiculous statement. It would be a more accurate statement about fundamentalist Christianity or just about any religious fundamentalist.

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               Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               "That is a ridiculous statement."
               
               
               No, a true statement.

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                  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  As I recall the Crusades were'nt started by atheists. Nor was the fighting between Israel and Palestine. The Al Qaida and Taliban suicide bombers aren't atheists so far as I know. Atheists didn't burn the Salem "witches" at the stake. And the Spanish inquisition wasn't inspired by atheists. Atheists aren't the ones stoning women accused of adultery. And atheists didn't destroy the 2000 years old Bamyian statues in Afghanistan. Atheists don't go around in white sheets and burning crosses on the lawns of black Americans. Atheists aren't the ones carrying "God Hates Fags!" signs at Teabagger rallies. I could go on, but that should suffice to convince a reasonable man like you Sab.
                  
                  Torquemada--http://properlyscared.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/torquemada.jpg
                  
                  As someone said, "when facsism comes it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.'

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                     Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     "As I recall the Crusades were'nt started by atheists. Nor was the fighting between Israel and Palestine. The Al Qaida and Taliban suicide bombers aren't atheists so far as I know. Atheists didn't burn the Salem "witches" at the stake. And the Spanish inquisition wasn't inspired by atheists."
                     
                     
                     Yeah, and how did the atheists do with the USSR, Communist China, the Khmer Rouge? The numbers of dead are nowhere near comparable, but it shouldn't be a counting game (one the atheists lose anyway).

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            Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Wrong again, bigotry goes hand in hand with fundamentalist religionists of all stripes.

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               Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               You need look no further than this site to see how intolerant the atheist ilk is. Bottom line, fear and bigotry are human weaknesses and manifest regardless of faith (or nihilistic self-obsession standing in for faith).

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   theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

   Is the KKK still powerful - honestly thought they were long gone.

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      Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Unfortunately not gone, but the comparison is a silly example of equivalency that does not fit the matter at  hand.

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      china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You know that these things never quite go away, people who want to demonstrate hatred will always find a vehicle for it. Just as there are many stupid people who cling around the edges who have no idea what they are really supporting.

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   shabarigirishposted 14 years ago

   Last night I watched a bollywood movie 'my name is khan, but I am not a terrorist'. The story is about a Muslim person who tries to convey the message to world that all Muslims are not extremists. There are only two type of people, good people and bad people other things are immaterial. I too have few Muslim friends who are really good Human beings.

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   mikelongposted 14 years ago

   Sab, you can say what you wish....but you wishes are incorrect...
   
   I compare the threat of the KKK/white supremacist influence to the volcano bubbling under the surface of Yellowstone....
   
   And I happen to be living at the epicenter.
   
   The recent incident at UC San Diego is only a little taste of what I am saying...
   
   The white hoods don't come out to be seen.....but just wait at the immigration debate heats up...the hate heard at Palin rallies, in my opinion, is going to pale in comparison...
   
   Sad, since you didn't respond to any other aspect of my original post, do I take it that you agree?
   
   If I started selling shirts with pictures implying that Jesus was fondling children would I receive death threats, if not outright attacks?
   
   Beyond the legal fights against me....there would be much more....
   
   Christian hypocrisy compounded by a bad case of projection onto the "other"......

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      Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      a 'theoretical' threat "bubbling under the surface" "just wait"
      
      I also notice you expand the 'theory' to all white supremecists.
      
      Those bunch are all scumbags, but to equate them to the terrorists who have already commited mass terror attacks here and around the world and who still operate within a framework of organized plotting to commit acts of mass terror is ridiculous. You've got your political agenda and you'll stretch reason beyond the breaking point to try and justify it.
      
      
      
      As for your T-shirts, don't you think there are already lots of people printing out such crap in liberal urban centers and college campuses around the country? I have no doubt, as I've seen that sort of nonsense plenty of times. Denouncing and disrespecting Christianity in every conceivable way is already old news (which I'm sure is disappointing to each new generation of oh-so-earnest and self-important young secular liberals who are just sure they are the first courageous souls to dare take a stand against the 'man'). You would receive 100 smug, giggling intolerant liberal customers for every one person who even bothered to tell you how offensive it is, and no attacks or death threats unless you decided ( as a certain ilk is like to do) to go out of your way to bust into a church in a small community in the middle of services in the hope that you would receive such. Anti-Christian drama club posturing has long since achieved the status of banality.

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         Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         And your buddies are printing "God Hates Fags" T-shirts and picket signs. Also, Biblical verses containing veiled threats to assassinate the president.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Way ta go, Ralph...NOT.
            By saying "your buddies" to another forum member, you're personalizing something that should be directed generally at those who actually DO those things.
            
            
            I for one would never take part in, nor condone, the kinds of things you're talking about.   No veiled threats, no open untruths.
            
            I would openly and directly, though, call for the resignation and/or impeachment of that one in the White House who is condoning hatred of Christianity and tolerance for perversion.

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               Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               By "your buddies" I mean the so called leadership of the GOP which is attempting to align itself with or use the Teabaggers and other ignorant rabble who are carrying obnoxious signs and spreading ignorance across the land.

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                  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  How big of you to look down on so many of your fellow citizens. The name calling really speaks well of you.

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                     Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I'm only stating the facts which are obvious to any reasonable person.

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                        Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Oh, the "facts" are juvenile name calling and insults to your fellow citizens. Sure.

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                     Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I'm only stating facts which are obvious to any reasonable person.

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                  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Oh, that explains it,  again NOT.
                  
                  "ignorant rabble spreading ignorance"?
                  
                  OH LOL
                  
                  The main fools are in the White House and Democratic House.
                  
                  How easily so many are led toward their moral and social decline.......unbelievable!

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    Sab Ohposted 14 years ago

    "but just wait at the immigration debate heats up"
    
    
    How come your super-volcano of white supremecy didn't 'erupt' during the last rather heated immigration debate?

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       Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Since then and since the presidential election there has been a big increase in a variety of hate groups. Nativism, especially, has been on the rise since the immigration debate. The Bush recession also has contributed, in my opinion, to the rise of ignorant, rabble groups of all kinds. Some of it has been cynically encouraged by former GOP Speaker of the House, Dick Armey and his anti-tax, anti-govenment, anti-immigration, anti-health reform, FreedomWorks group.

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          Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          So, racism has gotten worse - as evidenced by the fact that we elected the first black president in our nation's history? Uh-huh
          
          If democrats believe that having democrat control of the House, Senate, and WH  = violent racist hatred, they had all better start voting Republican I guess!

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    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Yellow Stone - is Yogi Bear still living there

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    Greg Cremiaposted 14 years ago

    I don't understand why they are being called terrorists. They were plotting a murder, doesn't that make them murderers?

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       china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Probably put them in a different legal frame without rights or representation so they could be sent off to another country who don't have to worry about rights or representation.  see Lawyers representing terrorists thread.

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    mikelongposted 14 years ago

    Sab, the last "immigration" debate was small compared to what we are going to be seeing.... Expanding the "theory" to white supremacists? Yes....the KKK and white supremacy are two interwined faces of the same movement...
    
    I have never seen a "Gay Jesus" shirt....or anything like what I've described being sold....never...and I attend UCLA...
    
    With this said, you didn't answer my question...
    
    And what type of treatment would I receive after making these shirts if it was considered a sacriledge to make any likeness of Jesus?....what type of treatment would I receive?

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       Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "Sab, the last "immigration" debate was small compared to what we are going to be seeing"
       
       You know that because of your radical lefty superpower of seeing the future? Amazing. The last debate (no 'quotes') was pretty heated as I recall.
       
       "Expanding the "theory" to white supremacists? Yes....the KKK and white supremacy are two interwined faces of the same movement..."
       
       That's fine, but you only mentioned the KKK at first, before you thought that you needed a little more to bolster your dramatic equivalency.
       
       "I have never seen a "Gay Jesus" shirt....or anything like what I've described being sold....never..."
       
       I don't believe you. That kind of "gosh, ain't I clever and anti-establishment?" crap is ubiquitous at lefty campuses and certain urban areas. Not new, not 'shocking,' not clever, and not resulting in death threats. I think you know this.
       
       "And what type of treatment would I receive after making these shirts if it was considered a sacriledge to make any likeness of Jesus?....what type of treatment would I receive?"
       
       I already answered this question. Pay attention.

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    mikelongposted 14 years ago

    Of course Sab....
    
    I don't think the KKK needs bolstering....but this implication of yours seems to deny that white supremacists movements are directly the offspring of the KKK...one and the same..
    
    I care not if you believe whether or not I've seen a "Gay Jesus" t-shirt...
    
    Yet, I have not seen one...I came up with the idea myself one day...and I drew up some prototypes...but I have not at this point done anything with the idea.....
    
    I figured, why needlessly insult people? There is no purpose to simply make people angry...
    
    It is too bad that others aren't so caring.....like those who publish insulting images of Muhammad... I realize that my freedoms would be protected, if I chose to move forward with my concept...but "do unto others as you would have them do to you" rings better to me than my first amendment rights...at least on this issue.
    
    No Sad....I'm looking at the last time our nation was at a similar economic point....and I look at the massive deportations, of both Mexican American citizens and undocumented.....both... I look at the legacy of America past.....and realize that few others are doing the same....
    
    What is that line they say about those who fail to remember the lessons of the past Sab?

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       Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "but this implication of yours seems to deny that white supremacists movements are directly the offspring of the KKK..."
       
       I did not imply or deny anything. I noted that you felt the need to expand your example because even you realized that it was ridiculous. It is still ridiculous no matter how far you stretch it.

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       Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "I care not if you believe whether or not I've seen a "Gay Jesus" t-shirt..."
       
       
       Good for you, because I don't believe you.

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       Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "...I came up with the idea myself one day...and I drew up some prototypes...but I have not at this point done anything with the idea.....
       
       I figured, why needlessly insult people? There is no purpose to simply make people angry..."
       
       Do what you want. It is trite, boring, and banal, but no one will threaten your life over it.

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       Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "It is too bad that others aren't so caring.....like those who publish insulting images of Muhammad..."
       
       
       Yeah, easier to be a coward when it comes to Islam because their radicals are so predictably violent.

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       Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       ""do unto others as you would have them do to you" rings better to me than my first amendment rights"
       
       I have no interest in your religious beliefs.

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       Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "....I'm looking at the last time our nation was at a similar economic point..."
       
       Yeah? And when was that?

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    foreignpressposted 14 years ago

    This BS about "America's legacy past" is getting old. It's beyond old. America is the greatest country in the world. Maybe that's why so many people want to come here. Then, once here, they demonstrate in the streets shouting for instant amnesty, or burn our flag or hang our flag upside down. There is not one country on this planet that does not have sins. Not one. I especially love these liberals who go back 500 years, or more, to make a case about America's "past transgressions." The problem is one we cannot solve: We have finite space and finite resources. We used up our financial resources to where we're trillions of dollars in debt -- usually trying to support other countries. "Undocumented." I love it. People enter this country illegally and set up housekeeping. They have babies and literally live on welfare. Not only do we tolerate it -- we financially support it. It's too bad what's happening in Mexico. But the United States can no longer support the world. It is not financially or socially possible. Mexico needs to grow up. And so do the liberals who demand we open the floodgates.

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       china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Wow - where have you been the last few years?  You used up the financial resources in illegal and pointless wars, that on balance you lost, then you paid yourselves too much for too long, then you let your manufacturing base slip and other countries have stepped in to save your ass with trillion dollar loans.

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          Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          LOL! Oh, manufacturing just started moving overseas in the past few years? LOL.

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       Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       What liberals are "demanding that we open the floodgates?" Liberals and some responsible Republicans are advocating a comprehensive solution that would include better border security and opening a fair and reasonable path to citizenship for the 12 million undocumented immigrants.

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          Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          There is already a fair and reasonable path to citizenship. This is not about people concerned about citizenship.

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    mikelongposted 14 years ago

    ...And then there are the "brilliant" minds like foreignpress here.....
    
    Smart one, who is going back 500 years?  I'm just looking at the last 80 or so....
    
    
    There are minds that are reality based....and then there are ones like F.P., who are wholly deluded.
    
    
    Yes F.P. "undocumented"....because "documented" was invented...."documented" does not mean citizen or greencard....
    
    Two Bracero Programs alone (only one of which is recognized by most historians...and neither of which most Americans have ever heard of) demonstrate what this means....
    
    Floodgates?  Mexico tried to close those in the 1830's and 40's...but the Anglo-Americans kept coming and coming...a few legally, and a great percentage otherwise.....

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    mikelongposted 14 years ago

    Sab...you tell me....do some research for yourself and tell me what you find....
    
    When did these deportations take place?
    
    "do unto others" Sabbie, is not a religious belief...your ignorance again shows.....this is called a personal ethic or philosophy.....there is no 'deity' requirement for human decency...at least not for me..
    
    Do you disagree Sad/TK?
    
    "Coward when it comes to Islam..."
    
    I don't even know what you babble about at this point Sad......
    
    Your bias shows clearly...

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       Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "Sab...you tell me....do some research for yourself and tell me what you find...."
       
       Ok, I find you trying to make associations that don't hold up - again.
       
       
       ""do unto others" Sabbie, is not a religious belief..."
       
       It's ok, don't be scared that you will lose your 'RADICAL' membership for non-atheism. I won't tell.
       
       ""Coward when it comes to Islam..."
       
       I don't even know what you babble about at this point "
       
       
       You know exactly what I mean, and your avoidance seems to prove my point.

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    mikelongposted 14 years ago

    Sab, are you telling me that you don't know/can't find information about the deportations I am speaking of?

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    de'Arabposted 14 years ago

    This whole situation is rediculous. There are always gonna be misunderstanding. People need to learn to let things go.

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    Alotaposted 14 years ago

    perhaps they were just art critics.

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    mikelongposted 14 years ago

    Sab....can you tell me about the deporations of Mexicans?
    
    You've had plenty of time to read up...

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       Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "read up" 
       
       Gosh, how could I? No one has access to the secret information you have.
       
       
       Could you tell us about the Mexican-American War again?
       
       

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    Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago

    The wingnuts always ignore how many of these plots have been undone because someone from the Islamic community has turned in the individuals or group. Islamic family members tried to turn in the X-mas day bomber. I think family also tipped off the police in this most recent attempt.
    
    Some of you may have read the autobiography of MalcomX - he explains how he was turned from a violent Moslem to a moderate by moderate Moslems. MalcomX knew following a moderate path would result in his murder. Mohammed Ali was a Muslim - back in the 60s and went to jail because he was a pacifist and would not participate in the Viet Nam conflict.
    
    There's a lot of ignorance in painting all Moslems as violent and evil when the most casual investigation shows it aint true.

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       Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       True, I seem to recall that the parents of the Nigerian "underwear" bomber bomber turned him in to the U.S. consul or embassy some time before his failed attempt to blow up a plane over Detroit. Unfortunately our bureaucracy dropped the ball.

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          Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yeah, the obama administration dropped the ball.

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    Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago

    A Georgia man was arrested for making death threats against Elton John - a reaction against the opinion of the musician who suggested Jesus was a compassionate gay man..... Is there a trend here? Different flavored nuts - but still nuts.

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    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    The Cartoonist in question had his house petrol bombed in Ireland yesterday

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    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    The said cartoonist has now gone into hiding

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       paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Hi friend theirishobserver
       
       It is good for his life; but the Terrorists should be dealt with as per the law of the land.
       
       Thanks
       
       I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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          TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          To a Muslim that law is, Shari'a.
          
          And the cartoonist gets to die fore his crime.
          
          You know that Paa.

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             paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Hi friend TMMason
             
             That is not the true teachings of Quran/Islam/Muhammad; the Radical Muslims have misunderstood and people like you, unknowingly support their cause instead of exposing it.
             
             Thanks
             
             I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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                TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Oh please do  go on Paas....
                
                Show me the Qu'ranic verses supporting your opinion... and the Hadith... perhaps a scholar or two to support it?
                
                Jihad is obligatory!..
                
                Jihad in the Qur'an and Sunnah
                By SHEIKH ABDULLAH BIN MUHAMMAD BIN HUMAID
                
                Praise be to Allah swt Who has ordained Al-Jihad (the holy fighting in Allah's Cause):
                
                1. With the heart (intentions or feelings),
                
                2. With the hand (weapons, etc.),
                
                3. With the tongue (speeches, etc., in the Cause of Allah)
                
                Allah has rewarded the one who performs it with lofty dwellings in the Gardens (of Paradise).
                
                I testify that there is none who has the right to be worshipped but Allah (swt) Alone and He has no partners (with Him). I (also) testify that Muhammad (pbuh) is His slave and His Messenger, the one sent by Allah Law as a mercy for the 'Alameen (mankind and jinns); the one commanded by Allah (swt) to fight against AlMushrikun[l] (and all those who ascribe partners with Allah). He fought for Allah's Cause with all his power and ability-may Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him, upon his followers and upon his companions who believed in him, and honoured him, helped him and followed the light (the Qur'an) and his .AsSunna (the legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements, etc.) which was revealed to him...those who emigrated and fought in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives, they were the supreme conquerors and the masters.
                
                [1l Al-Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah and in His Messenger Muhammad (pbuh)
                
                4 It is well known how the Messenger (pbuh) was fighting against AlMushrikun (and all those who ascribe partners with Allah (swt) since Allah, the Most Respectful, the AllMajestic sent him and honoured him with the Messengership till Allah caused him to die and selected for him what was with Him (Paradise and all that is good).
                
                The Prophet (pbuh) used to visit the people in their gatherings during season days (Hajj and Umra) and other days (too). He used to go to their market places, recite the Qur'an, invite them to Allah, the Most Respectful, the AllMajestic. He used to say, "Who will give me a safe shelter, and who will support me till I convey the Message of my Lord (Allah) then he will have Paradise." But he would not find anyone to support him or to give him a safe shelter.
                
                He (Prophet Muhammad pbuh ) carried on his mission of inviting people to Allah Ta'ala (Islamic Religion) and persisted in (this) invitation for 13 years inspite of the harm and injuries (which he suffered), and he used to forgive the ignorant... in order that Allah's Proof be established against them (disbelievers) and that His Promise be fulfilled to them (disbelievers) which He assured them with His Statement:
                
                And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning) (V. 17:15).
                
                The people continued in their transgression, they did not take guidance from the manifest proof. The Quraish (people) oppressed and harmed all those who followed him (Muhammad pbuh) from his tribe, put them to trials and afflictions in order to keep them away from their religion (Islam), even to the extent that they exiled them from their homeland, some of them fled to Ethiopia, some went to AlMadina (AlMunawwara) and some remained patient ( at Makka ) in spite of the harm they received; by being imprisoned, made to suffer from hunger and thirst and by being beaten (in a horrible manner)... so much so that some of them were not able to sit straight from the severity (of the injuries) of the beatings.
                
                They used to tie a rope around the neck of Bilal (may Allah be pleased with him) and give the end of that rope in the hands of boys to play and drag him through the pathways of Makka .... And as to what Yasir's family suffered from the torrnent was beyond what a normal human being can endure.
                
                The Quraish (people) harmed Allah's Messenger (Muhammad pbuh) (too), they besieged him in AshShi'b, once 'Uqbah bin Abi Mu'ait tried to strangle him and he kept on squeezing the Prophet's clothes round his neck till the eyes of the Prophet pbuh bulged out, and AbuBakr rushed at 'Uqbah and released the Prophet pbuh from him and said, "Would you kill a man because he says: My Lord is Allah Ta'ala?"
                
                Abu Jahl also tried to kill the Messenger (pbuh) while the latter was in prostration praying in the AlMasjidalHaram, he carried a huge stone to throw it on the Prophet's (pbuh) head. But when he (Abu Jahl) tried to throw it he turned on his heels full of fear and fright saying:"I am being prevented (going near) from Muhammad by a huge stallion camel intending to swallow me."
                
                And when Allah, The Most Exalted, wanted to reveal His religion (Islam) and to fulfill His Promise and to make victorious His Prophet (pbuh) Allah, the Most High ordered him to emigrate to AlMadina. So he stayed there and Allah supported him with His Victory and with His slaves, the faithful believers-the Islamic army unit composed of different sorts of people (black, white, and red). They strove hard for him with all their efforts, and preferred his love to the love of (their) fathers, offspring and wives.
                
                Muhammad, upon him be peace, was closer to them (believers) than their own selves. The (pagan) Arabs and Jews had formed a united front against them (Muhammad pbuh and his followers) and had put up all their efforts of enmity, standing and fighting against them... and (in fact) they shouted against them from every corner. Then, at that time Allah permitted them (Muhammad pbuh and his followers) the (Jihad) fighting but He did not make it obligatory. He said:
                
                Permission to fight is given to those (i.e. believers against disbelievers) who are fighting them (and) because they (believers) have been wronged, and surely Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory.
                
                Those who have been expelled from their homes unjustly only because they said:"Our Lord is Allah." (V.22:39,40).
                
                The above Verses clearly state that He (Allah) is Able to give victory to His worshippers (the believers) without fighting, but Allah wants from His worshippers obedience with all their efforts. As in His Statement:
                
                So when you meet (in fight... Jihad in Allah's Cause) those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom) or ransom (according to whatbenefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad againstthe disbelievers till they embrace Islam (i.e. are saved from the punishment in the Hellfire) orat leastcome under your protection] but if it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight) in orderto test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.
                
                He will guide them and set right their state. And admit them to Paradise which He has made known to them (i.e. they will know their places in Paradise more than they used to know their houses in this world). (V.47:4, 5,6).
                
                Then after that He made (Jihad) "fighting" obligatory against all those who fight you (Muslims); not against those who didn't fight you. So Allah ordered:
                
                And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you... (V.2:I9O).
                
                Then Allah (swt) revealed in Sarah Tauba (Bara 'a) (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) the obligations (covenants, etc.) and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Mushrikun as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizya (a tax levied on the nonMuslims who do not embrace Islam and are under the protectionofanlslamicgovernment) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in the Verse 9:29). So they (Muslims) were not permitted to abandon "the fighting" against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and are able to fight against them (non Muslims).
                
                http://islamworld.net/docs/jihad.html
                
                
                Man you are not being honest Pass. The only Radical Muslims, are the ones who claim Islam is a "religion of peace and love.".
                
                And that makes me mad Paa.
                
                Yes within the ummah community. And then even there love has its limits.
                
                
                
                Again...
                
                The Verses [below] clearly state that He (Allah) is Able to give victory to His worshippers (the believers) without fighting, but Allah wants from His worshippers obedience with all their efforts. As in His Statement:
                
                
                So when you meet (in fight... Jihad in Allah's Cause) those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom) or ransom (according to whatbenefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad againstthe disbelievers till they embrace Islam (i.e. are saved from the punishment in the Hellfire) orat leastcome under your protection] but if it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight) in orderto test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.
                
                He will guide them and set right their state. And admit them to Paradise which He has made known to them (i.e. they will know their places in Paradise more than they used to know their houses in this world). (V.47:4, 5,6).
                
                
                Then after that He made (Jihad) "fighting" obligatory against all those who fight you (Muslims); not against those who didn't fight you. So Allah ordered:
                
                And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you... (V.2:I9O).
                
                Then Allah (swt) revealed in Sarah Tauba (Bara 'a) (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) the obligations (covenants, etc.) and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Mushrikun as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizya (a tax levied on the nonMuslims who do not embrace Islam and are under the protectionofanlslamicgovernment) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in the Verse 9:29). So they (Muslims) were not permitted to abandon "the fighting" against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and are able to fight against them (non Muslims).
                
                http://islamworld.net/docs/jihad.html
                
                http:// islam world . net/docs/jihad.html
                
                I have a question for you Pass. Why of 99 names does not one of allah's connote love?
                
                I would strongly advise everyone here to read the link I posted. That is the true understanding of Jihad in the Qu'ran. And it is OBLIGATORY upon all muslims to support it in some way. (ie; money- Zakat, community support- loaning them your wives clothes to sneak around in), etc...
                
                Man Pass....

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                   paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Hi friend TMMason
                   
                   Please go to the roots; Quran; and please quote a verse from it in support of your claim. Please quote the text of the verse with five preceding and five following verses for the context, you will yourself know that the Radical Muslims and you have misunderstood totally.
                   
                   You won't find anything like that there.
                   
                   Thanks
                   
                   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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                      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      There are a dozen quotes in there from the Quran. Go read the article. it references more than enough.

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                         paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Hi friend TMMason
                         
                         Quote one such verse from Quran which you have yourself noted from a chapter you have studied for yourself in Quran; articles could be written by biased people.
                         
                         Thanks
                         
                         I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    This cartoonist should have stuck with mickey mouse and donalds duck types

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    Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago

    The estimates range but there are about 1.5 Trillion Muslims in the world.
    
    1,500,000,000,000
    
    The assertion that these are a violent people is ridiculous on the face of it. They coexist with other relidions in the US, Europe, Malasia, Africa, India, China and Russia. If they were all dedicated to jihad - if even a minority was dedicated to murder, the global death toll would be tremendous.
    
    Yes, there have been violent conflicts in the Middle East between factions. Bloody power struggles are not unique to Islamic countries. In the US Civil war, 600,000 died. There have been instances with the KKK in the US - and all of the KKK claim to be Christian - with the Hutaree who were planning to murder a cop and then bomb the funeral procession - and they were Christian - and the Christian nut who assasinated the abortion doctor in his church. All Christians. Would it be fair to evaluate the whole Christian religion based on these examples?
    
    To try to indict all of Islam on the basis of a violent cell is as misleading as the indictment of all Christianity - based on a few violent nuts hiding behind the cross.

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       TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       @Doug 
       
       "The estimates range but there are about 1.5 Trillion Muslims in the world.
       
       1,500,000,000,000"
       
       
       That is the most idiotic statement on this site.
       
       There are about 1 to 1.2 billion Muslims world wide.
       
       Approx. 1.2 billion Catholics and 1.2 billion Protestants and arrayed denominations.
       
       Man. Get real. Learn a fact or two.
       
       As I have stated over and over again. The mainstream majority of Islam follows the qiyas I myself do.
       
       And we, (me and the Imams, Mujtahids, Islamic scholars, etc), all agree.

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    Cagsilposted 14 years ago

    Excuse me kind people, but anyone who claims that there is 1 TRILLION people in the world is completely out of their mind.
    
    The population of the damn planet is roughly, at best 6.6 Billion. So, I guess that would make it difficult to have 1.5 Trillion Muslims anywhere.

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    Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago

    Ooops - I made a mistake.
    
    Not the first time - and I predict it won't be the last. Becuas I do try to bolster my arguments with research and facts and I can get it wrong.
    
    So enjoy my boo-boo with glee, my wingnut friends. You got me. But I will continue to try to proved facts because to simply burp out opinions would change my credability to that of a wingnut.

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       TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Sorry doug.
       
       I shouldn't have been so rude in my response man.

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    rg01posted 14 years ago

    The law must be enforced, irrespective of whom violates it

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