jump to last post 1-4 of 4 discussions (7 posts)

Treaty of Versailles - was it the right answer to redraw borders?

  1. profile image0
    Audreveaposted 7 years ago

    I'm thinking mainly of Israel here but also the Slavic states that were smushed into Yugoslavia after WWI. Ant major flare up in the Arab-Iraeli conflict(s) always makes me wonder if it's actually the fault of the west for creating artificial lines and moving people around like chess pieces.

    I'm undecided but would be interested to hear Hubbers' thoughts. Please try to keep ay invective to a minimum; I'm definitely not looking to run down any particular party, just looking at the underlying causes and the role of the west.

    Oh - and the Zionism and chosen people thing... need to have that explained please smile I know it's important, I just don't really understand it yet.

  2. Shadesbreath profile image84
    Shadesbreathposted 7 years ago

    Maps are drawn on paper for a reason (they outline where the lines are drawn in the sand "for real."  Wars have always drawn new lines in sand and on paper.  It's what people do. 

    More people need more lines requiring more wars.  Etc. There's always an "agressor" and always "a victim."  Always.

    1. profile image0
      Audreveaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      My initial thoughts are that it's always slanted toward to the power in the situation. If would have been very different if the other side had won and the spin would be just as 'worthy' sounding but completely different in meaning. More lines, just in different places I guess.

      After WWI everything was a huge mess, so they had to do something.

  3. TMMason profile image67
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    No it wasn't.

    It was one of the biggest instigators to WWII.

    So no, it wasn't a good idea.

    As far as the "chosen people" thing... alot gets blown out of proportion in that.

    They, the Jews, were chosen by God to be an example to the world. Regardless of whether or not they have been a good or bad example.

    That was what is was for.

    Not the, "chosen people, as in, "better", than all the rest.

    Chosen, as in picked to recieve the Word of God and show us the way.

    As I said, whether or not it was good or bad exaple the jews have put forth, is not the issue.

    Just what, "Chosen People", means.

    1. profile image0
      Audreveaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      That's true about WWII, not just the treaty but the reparations paid by the losing side. Germany was crippled financially by the cost, leaving the door wide open for someone like Hitler.

      Was also after WWII that modern Israel was created. Was that a direct response to the Holocaust and the persecution of Jewish people in Europe? If Britain didn't have the mandate over Palestine, would it have been possible to do that?

      I'm a bit fuzzy on the details re the creation of the Israeli state. Who were the OT Israelites? Is that a group term for a number of gruops (Canaanites etc)?

      1. TMMason profile image67
        TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        It sort of was a response to that and the involvement of the ottoman empire in both wars. The silent partners to the NAZIs were punished by invoking the earlier pledges of Britain to found the Israeli home state.

        The ottoman empire, the former seat of the Islamic caliphate, was all to happy to allow the creation of Israel.... as long as it kept the spotlight off from them. And Palistine had to be punished for it's role in WWII also. Many a JEW was killed by MUSLIM SS. You read read up on the grand Mufti Amin Al'Hussieni

        Beautiful cover up... one of the best in History... how many people actually know that the Islam in the middle east were avid supporters of the NAZIs. And not only assisted them in the killing of Jews across the baltics states and throughout turkey. How many?... they don't teach it in history.... so...

        Here is a lil bit of it... tell me iof this doesn't clear up a lil bit about the Jewish States Founding. And why it was allowed.

        In 1940, al-Husseini requested the Axis powers to acknowledge the Arab right:

        ... to settle the question of Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries in accordance with the national and racial interests of the Arabs and along the lines similar to those used to solve the Jewish question in Germany and Italy.
        While in Baghdad, Syria al-Husseini aided the pro-Nazi revolt of 1941. He then spent the rest of World War II as Hitler's special guest in Berlin, advocating the extermination of Jews in radio broadcasts back to the Middle East and recruiting Balkan Muslims for infamous SS "mountain divisions" that tried to wipe out Jewish communities throughout the region.

        At the Nuremberg Trials, Eichmann's deputy Dieter Wisliceny (subsequently executed as a war criminal) testified:

        The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. ... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz.
        With the collapse of Nazi Germany in 1945, the Mufti moved to Egypt where he was received as a national hero. After the war al-Husseini was indicted by Yugoslavia for war crimes, but escaped prosecution. The Mufti was never tried because the Allies were afraid of the storm in the Arab world if the hero of Arab nationalism was treated as a war criminal.

        http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandat … _mufti.php

        Yes a great cover up...

        I have no pity for Palistine... they were sold for the sins of thier fathers...

  4. Rafini profile image89
    Rafiniposted 7 years ago

    Here are my thoughts on redrawing borders:

    Conflicts arise because one side wants what another side has.  During negotiations, to end the conflict, one side refuses to give up until another side gives what the first side wanted and nobody is particularly concerned with what the after affects are.

    So, its all about jealousy, wanting what you don't have, fighting for the right to steal from others, and negotiating what rewards you end up entitled to.