Is it true that ONLY the ELECT as in the CHOSEN people will be saved?
I have an ongoing debated with a friend of mine and I disagree with her premise. I believe God loves ALL people. He wants ALL people to be saved and not JUST the ELECT or shall we say CHOSEN. I have a hard time struggling with her point because in my heart I believe God loves all people and by giving us his gift of Jesus sacrifice, we choose to accept or deny him, otherwise it wouldn't be love. It would be predetermined and cold, which is not love at all. Any thoughts on this?? In my defense I turn to Romans 3:22. "...And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are."
God loves all people but He wants us to obey His commandments. It is those who obey Him who receive His special love. He wants all people to be saved but the fact is that it is not everyone who wants to be saved. The chosen ones are those who respond to His call to salvation.
There is not a man, woman or child, living or dead that Christ did not die for. All sins are forgiven but not all will be saved.
We must first know who the elect are. It is simple really, those who accept the plan of salvation and confess their sins and believe Jesus was raised from the dead shall be saved.
Not all will be saved. Jesus in His ministry was met by many who rejected Him. The scribes and pharisees wanted nothing to do with Him other than to destroy Him.
Many believe that it is predetermined who will be saved but that is not the case. It is predetermined that they who come to Jesus and believe shall be saved.
I like your answer. Thank you. It makes sense.
but you are wrong on one point. NOT ALL SINS are forgiven. The price has been paid to forgive all sins but without repentance there is NO forgiveness of sin
I believe, as Paul described in 1 Corinthians 15:40-43, and 58 (KJV):
"40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars;.: for one star differeth from another star in glory .
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye steadfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord."
I believe there exist three "hereafters" with a spirit prison we would regard as Paradise compared with life here on earth. From that spirit prison where all will be taught and can choose to accept the Gospel or not accept it, all will go to the judgement, and based on the judgement (with Christ as our advocate) we will go to spend eternity in either a terrestrial, a telestial, or a celestial realm. Only in the celestial can some dwell in the presence of God throughout eternity, for no unclean thing can abide in His presence.
His love for all his children, and Christ's death for all, assures that justice will be served, for as in Adam all will die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
Acts 10:34 - (Peter speaking) "I perceive that God is no respecter of persons; But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."
i mean the three here afters is not biblical
I was stating my personal belief and I specified that it is. How do you read the scriptures as to what eternal life will be like? Is there eternal damnation? Separation from God is possibly justice enough for some. And for those ignorant of Christ?
personal belief is worth NOTHING. What the bible say is the only belief with value. mormon doctrine is not biblical. There is ONLY ONE hereafter.
It starts after the great Judgement
"Personal belief" IS what you believe. Celafoe, you believe that you have a right interpretation of the Bible...that is your personal belief. Every interpretation of the Bible passes through your personal belief.
According to the Bible, only those who accept Christ as their Savior will be saved. Does God choose who he will save and who he won't before they're even born? Or put it another way. Does God create certain people who will enter heaven and others to inhabit Hell? Either way you ask it, the answer is NO. So why does the Bible use those words? I think they should be read with an understanding of the omniscience of God. He knows ahead of time who will make the correct choice and can speak of them as his chosen ones. Some people will disagree with me, but that's how I see it.
Calvinists say that God chose certain people based on no action of their own. They do not even teach that God chose them based on their FUTURE BELIEF in Christ. If God has chosen some, the rest are by default chosen for destruction.
Robert, I have two hubs that address the very thing you speak about and explain it biblically. I suggest reading first "Divine Election of the Saints" then "Golden Chain of Salvation." Together they should help clear up any questions you might have.
I'm familiar with Calvinism and predestination, Chris. You believe that God gives people the ability to believe. The rest are doomed to destruction. If this is the case, your god is most horrible.
How is that horrible? Would you rather He leave us all to our natural free will which no one would believe and God would then justly throw us into hell? That my friend would be horrible.
I don't need to explain this to you. It's horrible that god would only give a small group of people the ability to believe and leave the rest to perish.
You know, Robert, it is such a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE thing for God to make a way for EVERYBODY to come to Him but many still refuse it.
Well, according to Chris, it's not everybody. Only those who are chosen.
That's not what I say. I say what scripture says. That the cross is sufficient and offered to all people. The good news is that salvation is offered to all but the greater news is that it is made certain and effective for some--the elect.
You can't disguise it under all the spiritual jargon. It's contradictory. Offered to all but only some are made able to receive it---then it's NOT truly offered to all!
Robert, I bet you haven't even considered any of my arguments from Scripture that support exactly what I am saying. You're turning a blind eye. At least read and consider what I've written (here and elsewhere), weigh the Scriptures and then decide.
many people believe that John 3:16 means that all people are saved. this is not so. for GOD so loved the world, that HE gave HIS only begotten Son, that whosoever should believe in HIM shall not perish but have everlasting life....GOD created us, and HE loves HIS creation, but mankind has a bad and long established rebellion towards its Creator, so GOD sent HIS Son, the ultimate and final sacrifice, to save those who are not rebellious. this sacrifice was for all mankind...but HE included a condition...you have to believe in CHRIST as the divine Son of GOD and that HE died for you. this is more than saying i believe...it is believing all that CHRIST said to be true and that HE has the authority to say and do what HE did. and if we truly believe that, our actions show it because we live in obedience to HIM. so it stands to reason that those who say they love GOD/CHRIST, yet do not obey them, the truth is not in them and they will miss out on salvation. we already know that people who reject GOD cannot be saved, but what many do not understand is there are many who claim to be christians who also will not be saved. they do not worship the true GOD but a self made image, and their words and actions show it. those who do obey and worship the true GOD are called HIS elect or chosen.
That's beautiful. I feel that if you love God, you will desire to obey his commandments. It is not for what you can get but rather for whom you love. I feel ALL humans slip up and thank God we have a redeemer in Jesus Christ our Lord to forgive us
The bible is a book full of seeming paradoxes and the truth is found in the tension between truths that seem to contradict each other. On one hand we (the believers) are chosen in Him before the foundation of the earth; on the other hand we (choose) to believe in the one and only Son of God. So which is it? Do we really have a choice then if only God’s chosen will be saved?
The short answer to this question is I don’t know. Or at least, I don’t completely understand. But then again do any of us completely understand God? I say no. The best way I know to explain this paradox can be summed up in this phrase- “we choose to be chosen”.
Of course God loves all people. Your argument is also good, but why turn to Romans for your defence? I suspect you mean well and are trying to help, but humanity has produced and is continuing to produce a lot of 'book people' who will make life very difficult for you.
"I would rather feel contrition in my heart, than speak of it." says the great Christian Saint Thomas A Kempis. What does it matter if I know the whole Bible by rote, but feel no love or compassion in my heart?
"Vanity of vanities." Says the great Solomon. All is vanity except to love God and serve God alone.
"Blessed are the pure in heart." says our Lord, "For they shall see God."
The chosen are those who feel love and purity from within. Who are peaceful and harmonious and try to lighten God's burden by feeding His sheep; tending to the sick Samaritan, and keen gardener-branches on the life-tree to alleviate humanity's burdens, working as co-workers with our Lord. They are chosen by Grace, and the Spirit moves in them accordingly.
They are hardly mindful of this, as they are too busy loving, serving and praising God to think of anything else. You will pass them on the street every day and never know them. They will look and dress like us a lot of the times, but in their hearts they are brimming and radiating the joy and Light of Him. Hope this helps.
This scripture answers it.
1 Tim 2:1-7 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle — I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying — a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
God desires it, jesus paid for it and all who will accept His terms will receive it
It is true that God desires all to be saved. Like many have mentioned, not all will be saved because of their unbelief. You are right to say that only the elect or chosen ones shall be saved. We know who the elect are because they are those who believe and who persevere in their belief to the end. However, the elect believe because they were granted to believe. They were chosen by God to believe. I'll try to explain without writing a short novel by keeping it short. It sounds like your friend is defending election through predestination in which only the chosen will be saved. She is right but in my experience most people misunderstand what predestination/election really says. Election is a glorious doctrine that describes a loving God not a "cold" God as you have mentioned. Let me explain and please read intently with an open mind and heart.
Yes, the gospel is freely offered to everyone who will believe which John 3:16 remains true. However, the issue is that no one has the ability to believe. Why? Because we are all naturally bent towards sin and are God-hating that we would never come to Jesus Christ in faith. We are unable to believe. One of my favorite passages describes this scenario perfectly:
John 6:35-39 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
6:44-45 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me.
Jesus begins by saying that whoever comes to Him and believes will have eternal life. However, they do not believe and He explains why by saying that no one can come to Him (our inability) unless the Father gives them to Jesus and draws them to Him and those people whom He draws will believe and will be raised up on the Last Day. There are dozens of Scriptures that tell of election and predestination but we easily dismiss them. Election is difficult at first to understand. I'm here to help.
I had much more to say, but I ran out of space. I just want to say that we believe because He enabled us to believe. God elects people to believe in Him. His election is an act of mercy and grace to ill-deserving sinners.
cr-not true. we free will and ALL MEN are welcome to the Kingdom of God-but- not ALL MEN will accept His terms and actually make it in. 1Tim 2:3-4For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved
Both passages are equally inspired by God--one inferring to God's desires and the other His decree. We can conclude that God has multiple wills (will of command & will of decree). God desires all to be saved but in His great mercy He decrees some
I'll just make one more defense and I'll be done. I implore you to read the ninth chapter of Romans from a good translation. Please tell me what's the controversy that Paul addresses in verses 14 & 19? Why does he anticipate the reader's objectio
these verses in no way prove the point you are trying to make. they prove that God has the right and ability to do as He wishes, show mercy or not. Has nothing to say about your doctrine of pre-ordination
Oh really? So verse 16 has nothing to say about? "So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."
The whole chapter is dedicated to prove this verse. Okay, now I'm done. Not here to debate. Peace.
Chris---God has two wills? This is utter foolishness. It's an attempt to make a heresy fit into the Bible. How foolish it is to say that God is loving when he only gives a few the ability to believe and be saved. You are given to a cause, and blind.
Thank you so much. This makes perfect sense. I just saw this for the first time. You really made it make sense.
Melissa, I have two hubs that explain these things in detail if you're interested: "Divine Election of the Saints" and "Golden Chain of Salvation."
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