What more does it take to make you stubborn progressives (like President Obama) come to your senses?
Lady, you're counting on Progressives (liberals) to review the facts and make a rational decision. Hero worship procludes common sense.
Capitlalism has brought the US economy to its knees and even more astounding Obama had nothing to do with it and neither did Castro.
Oh no, now what do we do?
'Progressives are communists', still the funniest thing I've heard all day.
A little knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing.
Congress was controlled by the democrats since 2006, it was their policies that brought the US economy down!
(Oh MY! I didn't know that! Guess I have to play the racist card!)
of course!! it was the policies of the democrats that are responsible for the dwindling economy. The Republicans had nothing at all to do with it. In fact I'd go as far as to say that Dubya is the saviour of the human race and a Saint to the poor of america.
Can't recall policies that embraced ponzi schems, Enron corruption, expensive and pointless wars, sub prime mortgages. Still what do I know when compared to such a fountain of knowledge.
No need to play the racist card you're managing to display a hatred for your fellow human beings without it.
Based on your extraoridinary one sided view of US politics Im surprised you're not nominating Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rove and Dubya for the Nobel prizes for Peace and Economics.
Maybe you need to change your name or at least the second part of it as there doesn't seem to be much of this in your posts.
Feel free to report me for daring to not join the right wing.
Oh and how much did the republicans spend on the wars? more importantly how many US citizens died for oil? That would be Obama's fault too no doubt?
LOL! You accuse me of one sided thinking, but I think what you're trying to say is my thinking is wrong-sided because it isn't left sided. The left doesn't like the truth and they don't like when they're called on their lies. Oh well!
Look at your own party! Talk about hating the poor! Turns out as reporteed today health care is going to cost us all more not less as promised! Oh and how was that paid for? Cutting medicare to the old people! Surprise! Talk about war, who is expanding war? Obama! Oops! Oh and the Iraq withdrawal, was developeed by Bush before he left office, but Obama didn't give him any credit for the success, he took that for himself!
Had enough hate of the poor? How about Obama's 26.1 billion dollar "stimulus" to save teacher's jobs? That was paid for by cutting food stamps! Yeah the left loves the poor! LOL!
LOL LOL LOL!!!????
Obama expanding war?
Bush instigating a withdrawal? Jesus Christ!
What about Bush going into war? What about Bush advisors Engineering lies in order to start a war. Rumsfeld, a man who once bragged 'no point in attacking Afghanistan' there's nothing their, yet Bush and his creeps bombed it anyway.
And what about the pointless and needless deaths of thousands of young american soldiers, and the murder of thousands of innocent civilians, and the enormous financial cost of funding such a gross abuse of human rights? Does it really pain you to accept that Obama wasn't in charge during this murderous regime?
Is this how it all works for you? Ignore question or facts that exposed the reign of Bush and his cronies as one of ardent corruption and warmongering and then simply blame the change of govt on the damage caused by the ousted govt?
What did Bush do to save Teachers jobs by the way?
How much did the Bush govt spend on two wars and how much will it cost to fund an open a fair healthcare system for ALL US citizens and not just for those who can afford one?
Do you think that it makes perfect sense for people of your political persuasion to object to a national healthcare system, irrespective of what it might cost, that will take care of every US citizen, more importantly the poorest of US society?
Do you really object to such an obvious humane act?
Do you actually read anything outside of right wing news and publications I mean really?
And please enough of the juvenile LOL's..... this just indicates a lack of vocabulary.
You probably already know this Joe and I realise your question was rhetorical , but for others who may not, in the US, "to date (31st august 2010), $1.09 trillion dollars have been allocated to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan".
That's a sickening waste of money on stupid wars, and like you said, it could have been spent a lot more wisely if Bush and his cronies weren't so lacking in wisdom (to put it politely!).
hi Susana Yeah I had an idea it was a lot of money but $109 trillion jeez!!and it makes you wonder how Bush and his creeps intended to recover such a huge debt and its more galling that money might be recoverable but death isn't. I really struggle to understand the Bush supporters who still believe in the bullshit reasons for going to war. Whilst Bush, Rumsfeld etc live the rest of their lives in luxury american familiies mourn their children who were brave enough to fight for their country without question and die for a cause that has nothing to do with terorist threats.
Thousands of families n Iraq and Afghanistan mourn the loss of their loved ones and the perpertrators of such carnage will not be forgotten.
As for lack of wisdom, you are right susana you are being very politie!!
I heard that when Dubya was a boy the dentist couldn't find his wisdom teeth, apparantly this anomaly ran in the family!
I doubt they even considered how they would recover the money such are their skills in judgement and thinking things through! And to be honest the death part doesn't seem to matter too much to them either. Who cares if 100,000 Iraqi's died right? As for understanding Bush supporters and right wing politics, I give up! It's nonsensical.
Anyway back to the original thread, lol!
this is worth citing a source
I haven't seen ANY progressives advocate a communist economic model. I haven't seen or heard President Obama advocate communism or socialism either, and he's a moderate, not a progressive. Read progressive blogs and you will be amazed at the criticism.
Thomas Jefferson had a vision of America - I'm not suggesting it was the only vision but he said -
"The poor man, who uses nothing but what
is made in his own farm or family, or within
his own country, pays not a farthing of tax
to the General Government... Our
revenues liberated by the discharge of the
public debt, and its surplus applied to canals,
roads, schools, &c., the farmer will see his
government supported, his children educated,
and the face of his country made a paradise
by the contributions of the rich alone, without
his being called on to spend a cent from his
Gues what teabaggers - some of the founding fathers were progressives!
I would like to point out that it could EASILY be interpreted that Jefferson here was arguing for the Embargo Act of 1807, over which numerous Northern states threatened to secede (what? the north threatened to secede?! yep!). In fact, Jefferson had numerous death threats levied against him because of these "progressive" tax ideas.
Also, the term "general government" means the federal government. Thus, Jefferson is arguing that the federal government should impose tariffs (which would, everyone knew) hurt the northern states much more than the southern states. Lo and Behold, jefferson is from a southern state.
Also, his argument here in 1811 flies into the face of his previous arguments in the Virginia Resolutions of 1798, which DIRECTLY demand that any unconstitutional law (in this case, the tariff you are quoting) is not a law at all - it is void.
Just something to mull over -- all that I'm really saying is that it is obvious that even Jefferson was corrupted by the power of the Federal Government. Please read the Constitution and abide by it.
You are wrong on one point.
Replace "some" with nearly all and your statement is more accurate.
The founding fathers rightfully scorned those whose thinking remained stuck in past.
Your use of the term " teabaggers" is a homophobic slur...Are you against the gay practice of teabagging...? Curious minds want to know...
Your use of the Jeffersonian quote is taken entirely out of context and relevance to today's " progressives " and their socialist agenda...
how dare you define teabagging as a strictly homosexual act!
I think teabaggers get offended when mainstream society refers to them by that term, although they use it to describe themselves...
...wait, does that mean the entire teabag party will soon be coming out? Somebody call San Francisco, they're going to need a bigger parade.
Gays defined it...A hallowed portion of gay culure is steeped in its practice...Perhaps you are unaware of the ironic humor implied...The left bitch-slapping itself...
Perhaps Castro is looking at Chinese Communism that has moved ahead 'progressively' by absorbing the key elements of Capitalism to make something new. But then I guess Cuba is stuck with a huge next-door neighbor that still operates pettyrestrictions on its trade etc - the last I heard anyway ?
I'm not sure there are too many economic models that are working well these days
So Fidel, in a casual conversation with a journalist, makes a one sentence, off the cuff remark and suddenly all the conservatives are salivating. This remark does not mean that Cuba is suddenly going to remove the social wage. The social wage enjoyed by Cubans includes Universal health care, Free education and affordable housing. These conditions allow Cuba to be highly competitive, wages can be held because the money you earn does not have to be spent on these essentials. The full potential of their economy has not been reached because of U.S. sanctions. As soon as these sanctions are removed the Cuban mixed economy model has the potential for a high level of success.
The biggest problem with debates of this nature is the unwillingness of either side to look objectively at all the facts. What is most disappointing of all and a fatal flaw for the conservative philosophy is the tendency by conservatives to believe their own propaganda.
At last an accurate portrayal of Cuba! thank you iantoPF.
The right wing conservatives in america are nothing more than paranoid control freaks. They are not interested in anyone who doesn't share their narrow minded and soulless views. They would rather undermine a govt whilst in opposition than offer support through a tough time for the benefit of all the citizens and not just the rich Republican benefactors.
The Right Wing of US politics is the reason why so much hatred is aimed at America from the Middle East. The whole imperialstic aims of a handful of psycopaths (Rumsfeld should be jailed for war crimes, Bush should be jailed just to stop himself from self harming by speaking in public). It'll take years to undo the mess left by Bush.
Sadly Obama won't get the time and the right wing with its cronies in the media and its ass kissing of bankers and big business will get in again and no doubt cause even more damage to an already tarnished reputation. I imagine that the most voiceferous of right wing supporters on here have probably never left theri own country and experienced other cultures which explains the incredibly ignorant views that pour forth.
Those people really do believe the 'if you're not with us you're against us' paranoid mentality spouted by one eyed Republicans.
I worry about the future of America if the Right wing fascists return.
Joe said: 'Progressives are communists', still the funniest thing I've heard all day.
Perhaps Communist-Lite would better apply to the linkage...So much accommodation demanded by the intolerant Left...get over it...
Your proposed progressive agenda has America mired in the quicksand of political correctness, yet the Left pulls a term, Teabagger, from the gay community and applies it to a group of concerned Americans whose fight with government is economic policy...
they might have chosen that term because the political teabaggers also have obstacles in their eyes preventing them from seeing things based on how they really are
Blinded by the truth, eh..? Testicles would indeed be obstacles, wouldn't they..? But then, most progressives don't have any such...
Right Wing and Republicanism does not and never will equate with any semblance of Truth.
Only their version of the Truth based on a faith that doesn't resemble any faith at all.
You can't see it but that's ok because playing blind to reality is a republican trait. I'd rather have a progressive party minus its testacles than a far right Republican party full of dicks.
And why does no right wing republican want to answer the question of the cost of two wars orchestrated by Bush? It ran into trillions of dollars and thousands of lives but somehow this has no bearing on the current national debt? Oh I get it, it was the 'Communists' who caused the war and it was Obama who sabotaged the BT pipe and caused all that pollution.
You klnow one of the most striking comments I heard post 9/11 - an ordnary american citizen was asked about the tragedy and she said in all innocence 'why are they attacking us' and I understood how she felt. Politics has distanced itself from the lives of its ordinary citizens and the Right Wing of America does not engage in consensus it simply does what it wants because it knows it can abuse the trust of its people.
And sadly the rewards of such an attitude are the deaths of young american soldiers, the rise in homelessness, the filling up of prisons, rise in unemployment and oh yeah increased wealth for the corrupt Republican politicians and their cronies.
This will not last forever.
The Tea Party's first real blip on the political stage was via calls to "teabag the White House." The left didn't assign them that name, they did it themselves.
"Rare that an evolution and a word's etymology can be observed in real-time with such satisfaction. But it was Republicans who embraced the tea bag as their symbol with Tax Day protests to President Obama's agenda. And it was Republicans who cluelessly referred to teabagging as if it had no prior meaning. It was they who openly used the phrase that begged for double entendres. "Countdown" April 14th Teabag Eve. The Republican talking heads like former House Speaker Newt Gingrich had pushed their own vision of teabagging down the throats of the original teabaggers who were in fact Libertarian supporters of Ron Paul. Cincinnati teabaggers down in the mouth about taxes got a Boehner endorsement from the House Minority Leader. And the nation's teabagging of course impossible without this man, a Dick Armey at the head of it."
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