Politics do make for some interesting arrangements. I have just heard that a bill was introduced by the two Congressmen to decriminalize marijuana.
Finally a bipartisan effort on something.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 … rohibition
what do you guys think?
They are bucking for votes is all, just political theatre. I want it legalized, but do not see it happening.
The bill will leave the choice up to the States. I think it would be a great step forward.
That's BS - Ron Paul has been for legalization for 22+ years.
He has a voting record to back it up.
Not Frank though... and he is grand standing for political gain with the independents. The Dems need all the support they can get this election. So they will play the games they all play everytime.
Umm, I am going to have to disagree with that analysis. A large majority of Americans are still against legalization (or even in this particular bills case, against the national government decriminalizing it and giving authority back to the states), and I can bet that the leaders of both sides are not happy with this sort of thing.
Frank and Paul have a history of working together (drugs, legalizing gambling, military spending, hemp, etc.), so this is a pretty normal things.
The libertarian right (my side) and the progressive left often can form strong coalitions on those areas where they agree (civil liberties and war). I hope we see more of it or this country will only keep getting worse.
old Greek saying...
never trust a man with two first names....
or 2 men with four first names
That is funny and I just noticed. You are very astute.
Didn't Ron, Frank, Barney and Paul have a kid's show in the 90s?
No, it was a band from before that, Ron, Paul, George, and Ringo. What was the name of the band? Can't quite place it.
FRUIT SALAD!!!! YUMMY YUMMY!!!
Not that I agree with him but fact is fact.
Barney Frank was the first Congressman that I ever heard vocalize a desire for legalization.
This was in the early 90's. Ron Paul may have been saying the same things but I was not aware of it.
Barney Frank introduced similar legislation about two decades ago, and the two most-libertarian members of the House were co-sponsors:
Ron Paul and Dana Rohrabacher.
Unfortunately, Rohrabacher seems to have traveled to the "regular Republican" side of issues.
Two losers just looking for votes. Rangelm is a crook,m Paul is a wind bag. Scary thing is Paul is worse than O-man
Paul is better than every other Republican out there!
And, not only are they NOT "just looking for votes", they're trying to end a serious problem that plagues society.
Americans make up 5% of the world's population, yet we have 25% of the world's incarceration rate (i.e., out of every 100 people in prison, 25 are US citizens). The vast majority of these needless victims are there for petty drug busts.
In fact, many of them were caught in states that had already made marijuana legal - California, for example.
American View - who apparently values the war on drugs - values drug cartels and a foreign policy that causes hatred to boil against the US.
First Paul is a Repub. He only got the Libertarian nomination because he did not get it as a Repub, and rightfully so. So if it was not for that He would not give libertarions the time of day.
They are looking for votes, sorry you cannot see that. Being such a strong Paul supporter you do have a different view of him than the facts bear out. I am not knocking you for backing Paul, we all have our choices. I take a beating for my idea of a good ticket but it seems some may start to be listening. Thats why there are elections. For all Americans to get together and hire someone to lead us.
You have touched something dear to me. I do not know what the percentage is of petty drug convitions resulting in jail time. But I do not believe Any perry crime should be in jail. Jails need to be reserved for harsher crimes. Why not let someone of say possesion and was sentenced to one year, get home arrest instead. Home arrest requires the person to wear an ankle bracelet so their wherabouts are always known. Next they will not be a costly drain on the system. No feeding, no guarding, no clothing, no housing, no medical and more. They will be home, have to feed and clothes themselves. In addition part of home arrest is that they are allowed to leave the home for work, doctors, church, no other reason. When they supply there work hours they are given anywhere from 1/2 to 1 hour to get home.
Califonia only has medical marijuana legalized, not total use.So your example was not completely accurate. I lost 2 family members to drugs, it started with marijuana and progressed from there. That is pretty much what most heavy drug users have said when studied. So I may be wrong but having seen first hand what can happen, I do not believe marijuana should be legalized. I am not sure of its benifits to the medical community but I will yield to that for I do not know anyone currently doing that.
You got your time line backwards, bub.
He was a Libertarian before he was a Republican.
Clearly not. I guess you sure do not know much about the man you want to vote for. Or you have fallen pray to his wind bag of bragging. Either way, Here is the truth:(Source-Wikipedia)
Inspired by his belief that the monetary crisis of the 1970s was predicted by the Austrian School and caused by excessive government spending on the Vietnam War and welfare, Paul became a delegate to the Texas Republican convention and a Republican candidate for the United States Congress. In 1974, incumbent Robert R. Casey defeated him in the 22nd district. When President Gerald Ford appointed Casey to head the Federal Maritime Commission, Paul won an April 1976 special election to fill the empty seat. Paul lost some months later in the general election, to Democrat Robert Gammage, by fewer than 300 votes (0.2%), but defeated Gammage in a 1978 rematch, and was reelected in 1980 and 1982.
Paul was the first Republican representative from the area;
These were his first elections and he clearly came out of the gate as a Repub.
In 1984, Paul chose to run for the U.S. Senate instead of re-election to the House, but lost the Republican primary to Phil Gramm. Another candidate in the senatorial primary was Henry Grover, a conservative former state legislator who had lost the 1972 gubernatorial general election to the Democrat Dolph Briscoe, Jr. Paul then returned to full-time medical practice and was succeeded by former state representative Tom DeLay.
Still a Repub and now is on the outside
And in this last posting, you will see in 1988 he has become a Libertarian. You can see by the listings in the end that 4 other people were Libertarian candidates before Paul, during the time he was a Repub. The Libertarion Party was founded in 1971. But Paul was not a member until 1986
In the 1988 presidential election, Paul defeated Native American activist Russell Means to win the Libertarian Party nomination for president. Paul criticized Ronald Reagan as a failure and cited high deficits as exhibit A. On the ballot in 46 states and the District of Columbia, Paul placed third in the popular vote with 432,179 votes (0.5%), behind Republican winner George H. W. Bush and Democrat Michael Dukakis
Yes I do value tha war on drugs, but I disagree with :
"who apparently values the war on drugs - values drug cartels and a foreign policy that causes hatred to boil against the US"
I have no value for drug cartels, that is a ridculas statement, and I know you even think so. I do not belive that foreign policy creates hatred. Hatred was already there for their own reasons. Jealous of our way ouf life, our values, our commitments, our freedoms. THose that despise us the most are the leaders of countries that try to control their people totaly. Dictating everything and not allowing them to have anything. The protests in the middle east bear that out. And how about our policies towards terrorists? I guess we created that religous hatred to. well sorry humas, al quieda, and others that we are friends with Israel. Is that a reason to hate? Maybe if we blew up your troop baracks, blew up you navy ship, took down your airliners, destroy your homes buildings and national monuments I could agree that we brought on the hatred. Wait thats what they did to us and so its our fault they hate us. Are you kidding me.
I am glad that many other "Americans" don't have your particular "view". I'm not exactly sure what side you are on.
Sides, its quite simple if you read it. I am against legalizing drugs. It says so several times. Does that clear it up for you?
I am also against overcrowded jails and having my tax dollars pay for minor infractions. I will gladly pay to keep serious criminals behind bars. So why not let those minor crimes be on house arrest and pay for themselves? Does that clear it it as well?
You didn't need to clear it up and I guess this post is just for yourself more than anything else.
I am sure you are, as is many other Americans. However, there are many things that taxpayers don't want done with the money that is provided for taxes.
You make the above statement and then make this statement. Yes, I realize you said "minor" and "serious", but what should you or anyone else be punished for the crimes of other people? Just a thought.
Again, nothing to clear up. And your suggest of minor crimes being on house arrest and pay for themselves? You cannot be serious? At least I hope not.
When you get arrested for not paying your parking tickets and get sentenced to jail time, let me know then. I guarantee you will change your ming. And I am serious. Think about it, research it, you will see from a financil and tax savings, it makes all the sense in the world. One of the things people want is to pay less for the prison system. How about this, wouldnt it be better to put them under house arrest than the courts letting them go free for overcrowding? Where is the justice there?
I'm not dumb enough to not pay the ticket, never mind, tickets.
I don't need to change my mind about it. It wouldn't happen.
It appears as if you think the money government uses is coming from somewhere else? The government doesn't make money. It never has. It has no clue how to make a profit. Why do you think it requires taxes to begin with?
Really? From my understanding prisons are privatized and people shouldn't be paying for them in the first place.
No, but a better solution would be advisable.
Your example- tickets? There is no justice in to begin with.
Shame you are so sheltered. your understanding is quite incorrect. Only some prisons are privatized. Hence why they are called Federal Prison, State Prison, County Prison. They are all funded with taxpayer money. Why do you think O-man wanted to buy the prison to house the detainees from Gitmo? Where did you think that money was coming from? did you think O-Man was going to pay for it out of his own pocket? Even if I did not know that, My brother was a State guard for a prison in Florida. Ask him about his pay raises and he will tell you why he hates Jed Bush and the state legislature.
Next, no none said you would not pay your tickets, it was an example. You remember examples when you were in school dont you? If you are so naive not to think that does not happen, you are so wrong. People get arrested and sent to jail just for breaking noise ordenances. FACT. Do not pay your speeding ticket on time, you will go to jail. In Florida, be 1 week late on child support and see where you end up. I seen it happen to a friend, I bailed him out. He got 30 days because it was the third time he was late. And your tax dollars paid for it. Research the budget for the State you live in. They are all on line. Look at the line item for funding prisons. After you stop choking, is it no wonder we pay so much in taxes
I do know where the money comes from they spend. FROM US, Well it just hit me you may not work, so you would not know what I am talking about.
The war on drugs fuels horrendous violence in Central and Southern America.
So, being for the War on Drugs makes you pro-Drug Cartels.
American View - Please explain how Paul is a "wind bag." I fail to see how that most accurate predictor of economic and world issues, as well as the greatest defender of freedom in congress could ever be considered a "wind bag". Unless of course you have no idea what you are talking about, in which case I could understand why you would say something like that. So I would be very curious to hear an elaboration on Paul's 'wind bagginess' please...
Suprised a fellow ND fan, and I am a HUGE Notre Dame fan since I was 6 yeard old, would not see Paul for who he is. I have lived in Texas for the last16 years. Paul is all talk and has done nothing for this state.
If I do not understand an issue, I will say nothing till I have completly researched it. Once you read my hubs or other responses, you will see that to be true.
He has sponsored or cosponsored over 2200 bills since 1997(source=library of congress). That means he put his name on someone elses bill before it was voted on. Then, if it passes, he claims it was his. Wind bag.
He claims to be the founder of the Tea Party, False. Once more, Wind Bag
So, you want to know who "really" started the Tea Party movement? Well, it wasn't Sarah Palin. It wasn't Ron Paul either, thats for sure. He does not have one single origanal idea. It certainly wasn't the Republicans (although the socialist Democrats would have you believe there's some sort of GOP conspiracy). It wasn't Fox News and it wasn't even Alex Jones. It seems these days there are a lot of people claiming to be the first to have started the Tea Party movement. I'll tell you right now that none of those people were. You see, I actually do my homework.
If you want to get real specific, the Tea Party movement was actually started by those great patriots in Boston back in December 16 1773 at the original Tea Party
But in order to set the record straight, we're going to focus on this particular modern movement and where it stems from. Yes, for decades since the original Tea Party, patriots have been talking amongst themselves about having another Boston Tea Party. Some people may have even pondered over mailing tea bags to our congressmen and Senators. But this current Tea Party movement can be traced back to one single person's post on one single thread on one single forum, and I'm about to show you proof and evidence by tracing it back.
Anyone who knows anything about the current Tea Party movement knows that it originated from sending tea bags to the White House to protest TARP. Watch the following YouTube Video, dated April 15, 2009.
Try to reserch things before making statments like " most accurate predictor of economic and world issues, as well as the greatest defender of freedom in congress" Everything he has ever stood up for was someone elses Idea and he jumped on the bandwagon.Thats a Wind Bag. As you are new here Do not fall into the trap of just spewing opinions as many do.
Go Irish!!! We are the fighting Irish, what do you fight for
You keep spouting nonsense.
Strike 1: Ron Paul has gotten more federal money for his state - without ever voting to raise taxes - than most other House members.
Strike 2: Ron Paul never claimed to be the father of the Tea Party. He only claims to be a Goldwater conservative; a classical liberal. However, he IS the father of the Tea Party - December 16th 2007. People have been trying to get a "tea party" revolution going for decades, but nothing came of it until the money bomb for Ron Paul. We've discussed this before, quit BSing. Your claim that it started on April 15, 2009 is just incorrect because "the Tea Party" was in the news before the election.
Strike 3: Paul is not "all talk", he's got a 20+ year track record of walking his walk.
So, from this point on, anything you have to say about Ron Paul will be considered nothing but Trolling.
Evan you are 0 for 3 again. Everytime you respond I show you the facts from many State reports or Gov reports or from Wikipedia as well and you are still in denial. I do not troll, I give facts and consider it anything you want, but we all know the truth.
Evan even you have said he was the founder of the tea party in numerous threads. Now you changed your story to "he was the father" he was not even that. So are you now saying what you earlier said was wrong? And in a recent CNN interview he did say he was the founder. I told you that once before to.,
He has njot gotten more money for Texas, that honor goes to Rep Johnson. I live in Texas and I am very involved in politics. I have been asked many times to run for office on the local level but thats not for me. Paul has not done a thing except put hi name on other congressmans bills push for them, and claim they are his. What a wind bag. thats his 20 years of proven record you believe in. And I will not go into his character again, that will all comeout again in the primaries as it has in the past.
In case you forgot you said he was the fouder of the tea party, here is the thread:
TMMasonposted 6 days ago in reply to this
Ron Paul did not create the tea party that I know of Evan. Can you show me that? I know Rand Paul is a favorite of theirs, but as for Ron creating it... no I don't see that. Does it encompuss Libertarians, yes,... but still...
American Viewposted 6 days ago in reply to this
You know TMM, so many take credit for forming the tea party who knows what the truth is anymore. I think the people created the tea party. They organized, went to town hall meetings, protested. Then They started to side with candidate who enbraced them and ran with it. Helping organize rallys protest fundraising. Just my thought
lovemychrisposted 6 days ago in reply to this
No--it was Ron Paul. Of that he gets the credit....the Original Tea-Party, NOT the Baggers.
Evan G Rogersposted 5 days ago in reply to this
No, it really was Ron Paul.
AV - "You know TMM, so many take credit for forming the tea party who knows what the truth is anymore. I think the people created the tea party. They organized, went to town hall meetings, protested. Then They started to side with candidate who enbraced them and ran with it. Helping organize rallys protest fundraising. Just my thought"
And that is exactly right AV, the "people" founded the tea party and that just pisses them all off. That the people would dare do such a thing without their approval, lol Just like the establishment Progressives are pissed off about the tea party Reps., that we will not allow to compromise away any more of our principles and ideals. I say let them all piss and moan, they sound like the whiners they are.
Thanks TMM. They are all whiners
Have you read all my responses in this thread. And despite qouting actual facts and the sourses to show they were wrong they still persist. It is sure getting old having to school them about their mistakes or false statemnets. To bad they did not put this energy into the budget, immigration, energy policy. Things sure would be good.
Yes I have, AV. But many here do not care to learn anything in contradiction to their own views. They simply spout back the lies they have been taught as fact, and scream insults at any that dis-agree. It is the Leftist way. Keep up the good fight. You will not change their minds, but there are always new people coming and going and they may take the time to learn the truth. Especially after watching the ignorance slung around by many in here as fact and debating skills.
Now, long before Fox News, the Republicans, and even Alex Jones mentioned anything about mailing tea bags, we posted about it right here on American Preppers Network on January 24, 2009. Several people re-posted on other sites: Florida Preppers Network on the 24th, Mayberry Keep it simple Survival on the 25th, and many, many more.
As a matter of fact, you can Google this exact phrase along with the quotes, the same phrase that begins the original article:
"So long as we have an inauguration drawing this sort of crowd and not a protest about our government blowing $700 billion of our dollars"
And if you go to the bottom and click... "repeat the search with the omitted results included" you will see that over 795 sites re-posted that exact same article. Many of them were posted on extremely high traffic sites. Millions of people read that article. There is no doubt that that article going viral is what stemmed the current Tea Party movement.
Now, where did that article come from? As much as it would be nice to take credit for it, and while we did beat Fox News, Glen Beck and Alex Jones, we certainly weren't the first. So where did I receive the article from?
Back on the 23rd of January of 2009, I received an e-mail from John at Pioneerliving.net, saying that we should do this. "Mail our tea bags to Obama before he takes his seat in the West Wing." I was all for it. One thing I did notice is that he failed to include the White House address, so I edited the article before posting it and mailing out. If you received the viral email with the White House address included, then chances are you got it from my chain. If not, then you got it from the original thread.
So was John the originator of that first thread? Oh, that would be so cool wouldn't it? Well, as much as I'd like to give him credit as the originator of the idea, I can't. He and his wife certainly were amongst the very first few that made this all happen, and it might not even be anything close to what it is today had they not jumped on it. As a matter of fact, it might not have happened at all. You see, they worked tirelessly sending out hundreds and hundreds of emails trying to get others to do the same. They emailed Big John, no response. Alex Jones, no response and many, many others, with no response. Who responded? People in the blogging community. People like Mayberry, and mamma bear who was moderating the Florida Preppers Network at the time. Average bloggers like us.
Where did John and his wife get the story from? Right here: http://www.breakthematrix.com/Elections … WASHINGTON
That original email that went viral was first posted on January 23, 2009, on BreakTheMatrix.com. John and his wife immediately began sending out emails, as many as possible. You can see where they even left a comment on the 24th in that thread under the screen name Pioneer.
Where did Break The Matrix get the post? It was a feed from this site: http://market-ticker.denninger.net/arch … y-1st.html The original post that started the whole current Tea Party Movement was posted by Karl Denniger from The Market Ticker on January 20, 2009. In the post, he states that he cannot take credit for the idea as it was floated around by others in their forum.
What forum? Right here: http://tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?forum=FedUp
What Thread? Right here: http://tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?post=79282
Who started it all? The person who wrote that post, the one who goes by the user name of Gmack. He posted on January 19, 2009, an article with the title, "Mail a Teabag to Congress and Senate". You can clearly see that he posts the idea, and the forum moderator then edits his post a bit and then everyone gets in the discussion and starts throwing the idea around.
Now prior to that thread being started, and during and after, there are other threads where people are discussing protests etc., just as on many, many other forums. But what makes this post unique is that this particular forum and this particular user who posted about it is who Karl Denniger is talking about in his article, the one that went viral, the one that stemmed the Current Tea Party Movement.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/ … d_its.html
As of November 11--the Ron Paul donation link is still up and active on Stormfront. No IP address has been blocked. Stormfront's would-be stormtroopers are still encouraged to contribute to Paul's campaign.
The white supremacists do more than raise funds. Blogger Adam Holland reports:
"one of Rep. Paul's top internet organizers in Tennessee is a neo-Nazi leader named Will Williams (aka ‘White Will'). Williams was the southern coordinator for William Pierce's National Alliance Party, the largest neo-Nazi party in the U.S."
On October 11 Stormfront Radio endorsed Ron Paul for President saying:
"Whatever organization you belong to, remember first and foremost that you're a white nationalist, then put aside your differences with one another and work together. Work together to strive to get someone in the Oval Office who agrees with much of what we want for our future. Look at the man, look at the issues, look at our future. Vote for Ron Paul, 2008."
And so much more.
And this is who you want as President
Further information: Ron Paul newsletter controversy
Controversial claims made in Ron Paul's newsletters, written in the first person narrative, included statements such as "Boy, it sure burns me to have a national holiday for Martin Luther King. I voted against this outrage time and time again as a Congressman. What an infamy that Ronald Reagan approved it! We can thank him for our annual Hate Whitey Day." Along with "even in my little town of Lake Jackson, Texas, I've urged everyone in my family to know how to use a gun in self defense. For the animals are coming." Two other statements that garnered controversy were "opinion polls consistently show only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions". In an article titled "The Pink House" the newsletter wrote that "Homosexuals, not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities."
At the end of 2007, both the New York Sun and the New York Times Magazine reprinted passages from early 1990s publications of Paul's newsletters, attacking them for content deemed racist. These were the same newsletters that had been used against Paul in his 1996 congressional campaign.
Whatever Ron Paul - they won't let him run for president. Only two candidates get to run. They will freeze him out like they did last time for anyone paying attention.
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I have noticed out of all of the pictures of the Arizona debate, only 2 had Ron Paul in there. In fact, most articles about that same debate don't even mention Ron Paul. What is it that they don't want people to know? I guarantee if Mittens or anyone else had over 1,000 Vets and active duty...
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If Republican/Libertarian Ron Paul changed his position on the legality/illegality of recreational drugs how much would his support drop? Or would it, his support, increase?
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by PermissionGiver 9 years ago
Why do you like or not like Ron Paul?What reasons to you like Ron Paul or not like him? Would these reasons urge you to vote for him in 2012 or push you away from voting for him?
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