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jump to last post 1-8 of 8 discussions (66 posts)

OWS's 'Valley Forge' moment

  1. emrldphx profile image58
    emrldphxposted 6 years ago

    Is anyone else offended by people making reference to Valley Forge in this way?

    Valley Forge was a brutal winter encampment. 12,000 men, 8,000 of which who didn't have shoes. Many had very little in the way of clothes. Rations were short, sometimes only flour and water. 2,500 men died that winter.

    It's unfathomable to me...

    1. Brooke Lorren profile image61
      Brooke Lorrenposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I agree.  They're not nearly there yet.

  2. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    Tell me about it after you have spent a winter of owing in New York City.

    1. emrldphx profile image58
      emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but I understand the cold pretty well. I've been in some tough spots, but luckily I have training.

      Seeing kids huddled up in their tents with parkas talking about Valley Forge just shows a level of disrespect that I can't believe.

  3. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    Maybe but they are putting their bodies where there mouths are.

    1. emrldphx profile image58
      emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      No. I respect them for staying out there where it's cold. Calling it a Valley Forge moment though...

      If they want to put their bodies where their mouths are to call it that, they would have to drop the coats and shoes, only eat a small amount of bread every day(with occasional niceties like jerky), and still work chopping down trees and hauling logs(again, barefoot) to make temporary shelters.

      It's a long distance between Valley Forge and what these people are doing. It would be nice if our citizens understood and appreciated our history a little better.

  4. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 6 years ago

    I think you have missed the point. Whether or not they sit shoeless in the bitter cold doesn't matter. The fact is that they could easily get out of the elements; but  instead they stand firm in their resolve. It mirrors the unshakable and defiant spirit at Valley Forge.

    1. emrldphx profile image58
      emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I just don't see how anyone can draw that similarity. One is a group of people protesting something they believe in, in the cold, with parkas and tents and nice food and the safety of public facilities nearby. I understand they are doing something, but to compare that to Valley Forge...

      Maybe I'm alone in my thinking, but it disrespects the struggles our founders went through to make this nation.

      1. knolyourself profile image61
        knolyourselfposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        And the homeless who live in this nation.

      2. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Look at it from another angle. It honors our founders because the nation born of their struggle has come so far that those who struggle to restore the freedoms we have lost can do it without weapons fired and with food in their belly. Because of our prosperity, that could never have been attained without that sacrifice, those who sacrifice now aren't forced to risk their lives in the cold; because they can afford the clothing necessary to survive it.

        It's a different world. But the soldiers at Valley Forge left their jobs and their families to fight for what they believed in. As these people at OWS have. The soldiers were starving and cold because they weren't getting the support they needed. They lived off of the provisions sent to them. OWS has more monetary support, so they are surviving a little more easily.

        1. emrldphx profile image58
          emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          If that's the way they want to be viewed, then they should say things like 'This is our way of honoring the founders' sacrifices', or something like that that actually shows respect for it. Calling this their Valley Forge moment is comparing the two, and they just can't be compared. Those soldiers gave life and limb to fighting for their cause. I'm fine if they want to try and honor that, but not if they try and compare themselves to it.

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Tell you what. Run on up there and walk a mile in their shoes. Then let us know what you think.

            1. emrldphx profile image58
              emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              What, walk a mile in the shoes of the OWS people? Please.

              I once did a survival challenge in the Rockies in February. 1 week, pants, shoes, shirt, sweater, pocketknife, at 10,000 ft. I slept in a snow cave, I had to make a fire for warmth, and I lived off fish I caught in an icy stream with my hands.

              What they are going through isn't that bad, and it definitely isn't Valley Forge.

              1. Repairguy47 profile image59
                Repairguy47posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Man, no Starbucks?

                1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                  Hollie Thomasposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  That's you, isn't it? Love affair with a corporate abuser?

                  1. Repairguy47 profile image59
                    Repairguy47posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    You would have a lot more time to stop wars if you quit stalking me.

                2. emrldphx profile image58
                  emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Actually, there was, but I didn't take my wallet with me...

                  I love when I'm somewhere that doesn't have a starbucks within 50 miles.

              2. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Oh yeh? Well, I walked five miles to school. Up hill both ways.. Naked in the snow. My fantasy beats your fantasy. Don't you think? smile

                1. Repairguy47 profile image59
                  Repairguy47posted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  His is actually believable.

                  1. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    Not really. All things considered.

                  2. Mikel G Roberts profile image78
                    Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    So is hers. My Parents AND Grandparents both had that same up-hill walk to and from school. tongue

                2. emrldphx profile image58
                  emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Do you need to know what I did?

                  First, a snow cave. Most inexperienced people will make one that is much too large so it won't be kept warm with your body heat. Big enough to sit in, no larger, and  no longer than you need to lay down. The opening needs to be small, you can use large blocks of snow to close it in more when you are inside, so you don't have to struggle through a large hole.

                  Pine boughs on the floor and as blankets, you can always find dry pine boughs close to the trunks of large pine trees. You can cut through or break smaller ones, or find a rock twice the size of your fist with an edge to chop through.

                  For making fire, the bow method works very well. Take a lace out of your shoes or boot, and tie it to two ends of a curved stick, like a bow. Then, take another stick and wrap it once with the lace. So, you have the lace going from one end of the bow, around your second stick once, and attached to the other end of the bow. Get a flat rock to put pressure on top of the second stick with, and you can draw the bow back and forth. This will spin the stick at very high speeds, getting friction you need to start fire.

                  For food, find a running stream. Mountain streams can stay running most of the year. The friction of the water keeps the water above freezing. On small streams there is usually a slight undercut on the sides of the stream, 3-4 inches. Reach down in the water and run your hand along the undercut. When you find a fish, you can rub its belly without scaring it. Then, it's a matter of practice to learn to flip it up out of the water.

                  It's worse if the stream is frozen over. You have to break a large section open ahead of time, as it can scare the fish away when you do.

                  When you have fish, well, do you need me to explain how to gut a fish?

                  You can discredit my story, but it doesn't make it false. I grew up in the Rockies, I know a thing or two about cold. I've camped out in -30 degree weather.

                  1. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    I've camped in the Rockies in the winter. It's exhilarating. But you did not do it in a sweater. You can post anything you want to attempt to pretend that you survived the winter there in a sweater in a snow cave. But, I got frostbite once fully decked in winter gear. This was in broad daylight. You'd have died from exposure.

          2. Hollie Thomas profile image61
            Hollie Thomasposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I thought they were protesting with a bunch of unwashed, drug addled homeless murderers.

            1. emrldphx profile image58
              emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              Honestly, I have no idea what they are protesting... without becoming an actual group with actual views, it's hard to know what the fuss is about. I get the feeling it's a 'we don't like the way things are, but we don't really understand what to do about it' kind of thing.

              1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                Hollie Thomasposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Were you not the one in another thread, that plead you were so poor that you couldn't feed your own child after you had had your bus pass stolen? That despite working hard and being an honest citizen, you could not cope with (what in previous economic times would have been a minor event?) Yet, apparently, you were one of the fortunate ones. You kept a roof over your head and you had people to turn to for help.

                I thought you were a christian, isn't that supposed to mean you care about your fellow man? Despite allowing your child to starve, you still support the people that put you in this situation, and condemn those that were not as fortunate as you? Think about it?

                1. emrldphx profile image58
                  emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, I had a very rough stretch. Luckily, we had been smart and saved up money and food in case of problems. We were able to get by, through job loss and sickness, because we were financially responsible in the years before. We didn't build up large amounts of credit card debt or anything like that. Bought used cars to save money on car payments. Lived within our means.

                  I don't actually label myself a Christian per se... I believe that God is known by many names. I do care about my fellow men, and try to help them as much as possible.

                  I don't think you know who caused the mess we are in. I'll give you a hint: it was very involved with lots of people, including the average american. I dont' condemn those who can't do without. However, I don't appreciate naive protestors comparing themselves to the soldiers at Valley Forge.

                  1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                    Hollie Thomasposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    Then I'l ask you again. Why, if you had been so fiscally responsible, had you allowed your child to starve and lose weight, because you had your bus pass stolen? You're ever a liar or you neglected your child. If you want to post in these forums, you need to have a long memory.

              2. Mikel G Roberts profile image78
                Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                I'd say that sums it up really well.

          3. Mikel G Roberts profile image78
            Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            That is exactly what they are saying, just in their words not yours.

      3. Repairguy47 profile image59
        Repairguy47posted 6 years agoin reply to this

        You're not alone, these brats with their hands out wont suffer for long if they suffer at all. When they get a few years behind them and realize that income is tied to revenue they will hit heir foreheads and come to the realization that they were stupid. Low risk low reward.

        1. emrldphx profile image58
          emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          I don't want to judge people as a group... I don't know what their situation is individually... but from what I've seen of people talking to news and such, they don't even realize what it is they are upset about...

          Capitalism is evil, especially for those who work hard and get/make jobs.

    2. Mikel G Roberts profile image78
      Mikel G Robertsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Nice.

  5. ahorseback profile image78
    ahorsebackposted 6 years ago

    Hey I remember , in the real world , getting out of high school and college in the seventies and actually taking a job at min. wage and growing from there !!!
    Not standing in a park waiting for the world to hand me my dream! Grow up ! Put your tent away and go to work!

    1. emrldphx profile image58
      emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah, people used to have to really work for things... My parents started out saving $5/month. After 20 years they had their own house paid for. Now, everyone expects to have a house right out of college...

      It's quite a different world than it used to be.

  6. ahorseback profile image78
    ahorsebackposted 6 years ago

    Exactly , and I don't fault anyone who is hungry , unemployed , or standing up for a real  cause . Hell, thats honorable !  But this OWS is a joke! "Valley forge "....please !  Everyone today wants to start at the top with everything already "earned"!

  7. Cagsil profile image81
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    And, as if I have to ask this question......

    But, what moron made the comparison of the OWS to Vally Forge?

    Just curious the source that said it.

    1. emrldphx profile image58
      emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Eh, I've closed down all the news sources... you can just do a search ows valley forge... OWS people are the ones calling it that.

      1. Cagsil profile image81
        Cagsilposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Oh okay.

        But, I'll pass. It's not that important.

  8. profile image63
    logic,commonsenseposted 6 years ago

    Sounds like most places they are camped at are tired of them and are kicking them out.  Too much crime and too much mess.

    1. emrldphx profile image58
      emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      At least people can be responsible, clean, peaceful, if they want to make a point. I've heard a lot of stories of stuff getting messed up.

 
working