Here we go again: Climategate 2.0

Jump to Last Post 1-3 of 3 discussions (16 posts)
  1. emrldphx profile image56
    emrldphxposted 6 years ago

    I wonder when the majority of the public is going to acknowledge that scientists, deriving their grant money from governments, are often biased, or outright liars?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor … ng-debate/

    1. LookingForWalden profile image58
      LookingForWaldenposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Regardless of climate change , shouldn't the current population leave the world in better shape than we inherited it?
      It seems rather irresponsible to not do so.

      1. emrldphx profile image56
        emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        There's nothing wrong with that. The problem is using bum-science to try and force political issues. For example, there is nothing wrong with drilling for oil in the US to lower prices and boost the economy, while we simultaneously work on other forms of energy, and work to put in place a nationwide hydrogen infrastructure to replace gas.

        Politics should never get into science. All this money governments spend trying to uphold new climate change research could go into making more efficient forms of solar energy products, or any other number of things. It's a corrupt usage of money.

        1. road2hell profile image75
          road2hellposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          You are right!  Politics shouldn't get involved in science.  But it does! By the politicans not by the scientists!  Scientists do not force political issues.  The corporations througoh lobbying and money contributions push the politicans to ignore and criticize any sound science about climate change.  They do not want the public know the truth about global warming.  The hoax is believing that global warming is a hoax.  Think about it....

    2. Ralph Deeds profile image66
      Ralph Deedsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      What about the ones getting money from the Koch Brothers, Exxon, the coal companies, the Heritage Foundation and the electric power industry.

      1. emrldphx profile image56
        emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Yep, they could be biased too. I never said otherwise.

        The scary thing is, we have emails now that talk about the chief temperature databases being manipulated to look better.

    3. Ralph Deeds profile image66
      Ralph Deedsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Your views are quite predictable. I fear you're suffering from the Tea Party syndrome.

      1. emrldphx profile image56
        emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Ralph, I only care about the truth. These 'scientists' working on climate control are an affront to the name of science. In a way, I don't blame them. If they oppose it they would basically lose their future. The community at large needs to take a stand and take back science from the politicians. Occupy Laboratories?

    4. Evan G Rogers profile image72
      Evan G Rogersposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Global warming is real. I trust Richard Mueller (and my father).

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/3 … 66029.html

      The issue, however, is that it's not really a huge deal. The Earth can be cooled by increasing cloud cover.

      All we need to do is invest a few million into increasing cloud cover 5% (or so) and we'll be back to normal.

    5. kerryg profile image88
      kerrygposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      From what I've heard, the new release doesn't contain anything more recent than 2009, so it seems likely they were stolen at the same time as the first batch. It smacks more of desperation to me than anything else - they obviously released the cream of the crop with the first batch and as carefully as the Heritage Foundation guy could cherry pick the quotes, I really don't see anything damning in this second release.

      For starters, at least 6 independent investigations exonerated the scientists involved in the original emails of any scientific wrongdoing, but several of the investigation reports criticized the scientists for not being sufficiently open. The talk of deleting emails and such is simply more of the same. If there were some 2011 emails mixed in with the batch, it might be worse, because then it would suggest that they're continuing to be overly secretive, but there aren't.

      I don't see any smoking guns in the quotes directly relating to science, either, though I'd need to see more context to know for sure. One that stood out as being a particularly misleading example of quote mining was the one on troposphere data. The inadequacy of data on temperature changes in the troposphere is well known and openly discussed, not covered up at all. It's also worth noting that that particular email was from 2005 and referred to the first draft of the 2007 IPCC report, not the final version.

      More hilariously, if you read the full email and not just the cherry-picked quote about the figure being "deceptive" and there being "dishonest presentations of model results by individual authors and by IPCC," Wigley appears to be criticizing the creator of the figure (Schmidt, not Mann) and the IPCC for underestimating climate sensitivity, not overestimating it. How convenient that Taylor overlooked that little detail when doing his cherry-picking. lol

      1. emrldphx profile image56
        emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Climate change science(read:politics) is no less lucrative than any other corrupt problem we have. We've been over this before. These are the same groups 'exonorating' the scientists who think it is OK to use a data source that we know doesn't work now, and assume it worked in the past.

        Do you want me to start posting full emails? Would that help?

        The whole thing is crock. I even saw two different charts on the NASA website that were 0.6 degrees different from each other.

        1. kerryg profile image88
          kerrygposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          You're really stuck on the tree ring thing, aren't you? IF tree rings were the only source of temperature data they used, I might understand your obsession a bit more, but they're not, and because they're not, we know that the tree ring data was consistent with other types of data for many years and then suddenly diverged. It puzzles me that you're so obsessed with tarring the past data as inaccurate despite all evidence to the contrary, while apparently being not the least bit curious about why it might have diverged. That's by far the more interesting question in my opinion.

          Post away.

          1. emrldphx profile image56
            emrldphxposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I honestly just get tired of arguing with people who take the word of news reporters, politicians, and scientists paid by the government as gospel without ever thinking maybe something is up.

            I point to the tree rings as just one problem. Yes, they diverged, but we still assume they are good for the past. Different data sets have been dropped because they didn't match our 'historical' temperature records.

            Wasn't it 2012 when the polar caps would be completely melted and we'd be under 100 feet of water?

            Yeah, I want to know what's wrong with tree rings. I want to know what's up with all the data sets we use, but our esteemed researchers don't have original copies of most data sets.

            The reason they released more emails is because they have several hundred thousand of them, so they try to release the most relevant ones. I doubt anyone has read them all yet.

            As for the troposphere, I'm not sure which email you are referring to as there are more than one.

            Really, I don't even care to read through them all. I've looked at the temperature data sets, and interestingly enough, it's always the worst ones that are published widely. All of the projections have been shown to be wrong already, seeing as we are at nearly 0, instead of the 1-1.5 we were supposed to be at.

            1. kerryg profile image88
              kerrygposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              Who is taking anything as gospel? I've been interested in climate science since I was in elementary school and in the intervening 20 years, I've read widely in both pro and anti AGW camps.

              "Yes, they diverged, but we still assume they are good for the past."

              We don't "assume," we have corroborating evidence.

              "Wasn't it 2012 when the polar caps would be completely melted and we'd be under 100 feet of water?"

              Actually, as recently as 2007 most scientists thought the Arctic wouldn't be ice free in summer until 2100. Since the observed melting has dramatically outpaced the IPCC's predictions, the date is now estimated to arrive in the 2020's or 2030's. I've seen predictions for an ice-free Arctic summer by both 2012 and 2015, but they are outliers. (Though, technically, they have not yet been proven wrong.) I have not seen any serious scientific prediction claiming that the entire polar ice cap would be gone by 2012 and sea levels would be 100 feet higher, and would be most interested to see where you have. Honestly, it sounds more like something you got from Hollywood, or else just made up yourself in an attempt to make climate scientists sound ridiculous.

              "our esteemed researchers don't have original copies of most data sets."

              Citation?

              "The reason they released more emails is because they have several hundred thousand of them, so they try to release the most relevant ones."

              If that's what you want to believe. lol

              "As for the troposphere, I'm not sure which email you are referring to as there are more than one."

              Peter Thorne's: ÔÇťObservations do not show rising temperatures throughout the tropical troposphere unless you accept one single study and approach and discount a wealth of others. This is just downright dangerous. We need to communicate the uncertainty and be honest. Phil, hopefully we can find time to discuss these further if necessary."

              "Really, I don't even care to read through them all. I've looked at the temperature data sets, and interestingly enough, it's always the worst ones that are published widely. All of the projections have been shown to be wrong already, seeing as we are at nearly 0, instead of the 1-1.5 we were supposed to be at."

              Speaking of temperature data sets, have you been able to get at the BEST data set yet? It's working for me: http://berkeleyearth.org/data.php

  2. LookingForWalden profile image58
    LookingForWaldenposted 6 years ago

    I agree with you when as far as agenda based science is worse than useless.
    However, from working at a civil engineering firm I can tell you Im happy with some of the regulations in regards to things like protected wetlands and watersheds.
    Also, because of the government last year we became the first country in the worlds history not to over fish one species.
    That was a monumental achievement.

  3. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    "Some flowers, like roses, have actually begun to blossom for a second time,' said Mats Rosenberg, a biologist in Orebro, south-central Sweden.

    Weather experts say this autumn is on track to become one of the warmest on record in northern Scandinavia, where the start of winter has been delayed by more than a month in certain locations."

 
working

This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://hubpages.com/privacy-policy#gdpr

Show Details
Necessary
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)