Hey Evan, Greenspan Sold Out By Not Regulating!

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  1. bgamall profile image70
    bgamallposted 12 years ago

    You mentioned in our discussion on another site that Alan Greenspan sold out. But really, he sold out by not regulating bubbles. You say he sold out by not having a gold standard. But a gold standard would cause credit to completely dry up. Some credit is necessary.

    And, BTW, the TULIP bubble was not stopped by that nation being on the gold standard. Gold standards can still create conditions of bubbles. The gold standard also drains treasuries and upsets the balance of payments.

    Liquidity is not bad, Evan. Speculation is what is bad!

    Even Max Kaiser thinks the banksters should be regulated.

    1. Evan G Rogers profile image59
      Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Liquidity fuels rampant and incorrect speculation.

      If speculators (read: everyone is a speculator) have to use money that isn't losing value on a daily basis, and have the confidence that other people aren't getting money for free, then they can speculate accurately. Unfortunately Bernanke doesn't play that way.

      Until you can recognize this, then discussion is moot.

      I've pointed out how this works numerous times to you, but to no avail.

      PS - I love the title of the forum (Not being sarcastic). I opened up the forum page and saw my name in huge letters! Loved it!

      1. bgamall profile image70
        bgamallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Liquidity does spawn speculation, but even Max says you just can't allow them to do this without regulation. So, speculation can be whittled down by rules like Glass-Steagall, a law that libertarians hate for some reason.

        Your name is in lights, Evan!

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image59
          Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Liquidity causes reckless speculation. We agree.

          The problem is liquidity, not speculation. We disagree.

          Regulation will solve the problem because government officials know more about the market than the people in the market. We STRONGLY disagree.

          1. bgamall profile image70
            bgamallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            There is already proof that regulation works. Glass-Steagall. There is no proof that self regulation works.

            1. Evan G Rogers profile image59
              Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this


              Sure. Whatever.

              Just a reminder - the bubbles in 2001 and 2009 were first pointed to by the private sector, not the public. In fact, while the private sector was repeatedly screaming "DANGER", jack-a-ninnies like Bernanke AND Greenspan AND the Federales were saying "nah, it's all good. Keep buying crap".

              So, I'll stick with private, you can go public. We'll see who lasts longer.

              HAhahaha, just kidding, we both know that this proposition is completely illegal. We can't even compare the two because it's illegal to attempt to let the private sector regulate itself.

    2. Evan G Rogers profile image59
      Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The Gold standard CAN still create bubbles and bursts. I've openly admitted this.

      It's just MUCH more difficult.

      Gold can be inflated through Fractional Reserve Banking - i.e., someone puts  14 ounces of gold in a bank, and then the bank loans out 10 ounces of that gold, thus creating a total of 24 ounces of gold in the economy.

      But Fractional Reserve Banking can only sustain if the government permits it. In fact, the banks realized how great FRB was, and this is why they demanded a Central Bank. FDR made the gold standard illegal in 1933.

      I'm not pro-gold, I'm anti-theft.  It just so happens that the two are closely related.

      1. bgamall profile image70
        bgamallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        But, Evan, even taxation for social programs is theft according to libertarians.

        FRB is here to stay. Without it the 30 year mortgage is dead. It is simply how the banks behave that is the most crucial issue. If they abandon underwriting, then the banks will become unstable.

        Also Evan, libertarians are always fooled into wanting the banksters to be deregulated. But as Will Rogers said, they claim they don't understand their own business. Deregulation is a sure way to allow more speculation.

        So, government sucks. But the banksters suck more and are more powerful than government. That must be our fight, to curb them.

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image59
          Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          "But, Evan, even taxation for social programs is theft according to libertarians."

          That was my point. ... thanks for reiterating it?

          FRB is theft, immoral and should be illegal. If owning a house without theft is impossible, then don't do it. Your argument is LITERALLY "if we all steal from one another, then some of us can own houses!"

          No dice.

          The Bankers don't suck, they got their powers from government. Banks aren't anti-libertarian. But when they get free-reign to steal by the government, then they are evil.

          Got that? I'm anti-theft.

          1. bgamall profile image70
            bgamallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Point is, God told the farmers in old Israel to keep some of their fields open for the poor. Corrupt libertarians would accuse God of being a collectivist thief!

  2. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

    People just cannot seem to understand that the government is run by bankers which is convenient for the bankers. Far better to blame the government than the true situation which would be most distasteful to the public.

    1. Evan G Rogers profile image59
      Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      This is incorrect - The government refused to protect the property rights of the citizenry (it started with Hamilton).

      All we need is someone like Andrew Jackson to stand up against the banks. The government can EASILY re-enforce property rights, the citizenry just needs to wake up and vote for the un-corruptable Ron Paul.

      1. bgamall profile image70
        bgamallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        The difference between Jackson's time and now is the 30 year fixed mortgage which would go away if the Fed were abolished. I would like the Fed nationalized, as the banks are private. Then the Fed would be authorized to stop fiat bubbles.

  3. suzettenaples profile image90
    suzettenaplesposted 12 years ago

    Yes, Wall St., the bankers, and private corporations (big business) run this country and there is not a whole lot Congress or the President can do about it.  That is what capitalism is all all about. 

    Yes, Allan Greenspan is to blame for the current economic crisis.  He did not regulate business or Wall St.  He did what was good for the big three:  Wall St. , bankers, and big business. 

    Unless we trash our current capitalistic approach to our economy, nothing will change.  Are we willing to do that?  What is the most fair way to run a capitalistic economy?  Are regulations on the big three too much government interference? 

    President Ronald Reagan is also responsible for this economic collapse.  He is the president who said to do away with government regulations on Wall St., banks, and big business.  He has been heralded as the greatest modern American President?  Is he, in reality? 

    The causes of our present day economy have been going on since the l980's.  We have all been asleep at the pass and Reagan, Greenspan, bankers, big business, and Wall St. all ran deregulation by us and we didn't wake up until 2008.  So who's fault is it really?

    1. Moderndayslave profile image60
      Moderndayslaveposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Look at tiny Iceland that has more courage to stand up to the the banks than the mighty US. .
      http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/11/ … -sand.html 

      Ecuador   http://www.odiousdebts.org/odiousdebts/ … ntID=18718   

      Argentina   http://www.odiousdebts.org/odiousdebts/ … AreaID=152 

      Every penny paid to the  private federal reserve  for the privilage of creating our money should be declared Odious and denied payment.The federal deficit would shrivel like a raisin in the sun    We can also tell big business and wall St. If you don't like it "Get Out" and you cant do business here either. Don't let the door hit you in the ass. Some young upstart business will be nipping at your heels to take their place.

    2. Evan G Rogers profile image59
      Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Using government to steal isn't Capitalism. Quit drinking the Kool-aid and realize that, in a free-market, there is either:

      1) no government whatsoever
      2) The government actually enforces property rights by making theft / FRB illegal.

      1. bgamall profile image70
        bgamallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Again, God told farmers in Israel to keep fields open for the poor. It isn't stealing. You are the perverse one Evan, in thinking that government helping the poor is stealing.

        I am for separation of church and state, but OT Israel can be an example of how society can take care of the poor. You attach the label of stealing to it. Most normal people don't.

  4. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 12 years ago

    News flash!  The best way to rob a bank.........................................................................................Is to own one!

  5. maxoxam41 profile image63
    maxoxam41posted 12 years ago

    American people are indoctrinated. Too capitalistic! How many of them really understand what capitalism is about?

  6. maxoxam41 profile image63
    maxoxam41posted 12 years ago

    This comment was not for your text.


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