Killing an animal is a ruthless act. Why then do Muslims consume non-vegetarian

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   Uplifterxposted 11 years ago

   I never figured out, despite my experience of living a lifespan of 45 years, why humans kill and torture animals for food. Why do Muslims and Christians still practice killing animals for meat? Is that allowed in their so-called religions of mercy? They should better learn from the Buddhists and other Eastern religions.

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      Sarra Garrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Apparently you've never been hungry.  I hunt and fish all year round.  It's not torture, it's an instant kill. Humans are meant to eat meat and have been for centuries.  I don't kill something unless I am going to eat it and yes I skin and tan the pelts and hides.  I'm going to be homeless next week and my only survival is to kill for my food.  That's why the animal was put here on earth to eat.  Now I am opposed to the few that kill for the fun of it...they are twisted in the head.  But for survival and to put food on the table there is no torture or inhumane act about it.  One shot One Kill, if you wound you'd better hunt that sucker down and kill it.  Waste not want not.

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         Uplifterxposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         You would kill because you agree to kill. It's a choice. You could do other things as well to save yourself from hunger.
         
         I agree hunger makes a bad irritant. I had been once hungry for 3 days. I didn't take anything except water, absolutely nothing. But I didn't kill any animal. I tried for alternatives.
         
         God created fruits and seeds as well, and an array of natural food.
         
         Of course, violence comes easy. And violence is profitable as well. No wonder that people kill animals for food, and then rationalize their cruelty.

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      jponiatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I'll reply with what an Indian (as in, person from India) friend said to me once: "I eat meat for religious reasons.  If God had not wanted me to eat meat, he wouldn't have given me incisors."

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         Uplifterxposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         As if you don't need them to pierce through a pizza.

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      Greek Oneposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Meat is yummy

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         BLACKANDGOLDJACKposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Exactly. I like my steak. What, should we eat people?

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            psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You could of course eat non-meat food.
            
            These are matters of personal choice, between clearly available alternatives,

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               BLACKANDGOLDJACKposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Right. I can munch on a spare rib or a stick of celery.
               
               This time of year I'm more concerned about hitting a deer with my Jeep than I am about the price of rabbit food.

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                  psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  It is, nevertheless, a clearly available option.
                  
                  So you could just say clearly  why you made the choice you made, rather than suggesting there are no real options.

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   Greek Oneposted 11 years ago

   I advise AGAINST eating people...
   
   you never know where some of them have been hanging around

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      Uplifterxposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Beautiful minds think alike.

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   Emile Rposted 11 years ago

   We own a custom processing facility and I can assure you the animals are not tortured. It is a quick death.
   
   I hope your views don't get much traction, since it would be incredibly bad for business, but to each their own.

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      Uplifterxposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It's easy to rationalize.

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         jponiatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Because it's rational.

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            Uplifterxposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Because for some people it's rational to rationalize cruelty.

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         Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I'm not rationalizing. I don't suffer guilt from enjoying a piece of red meat. I'm sorry if this offends your sensibilities. I'm a little confused why you've posted this in a religious forum. Stomachs and taste buds don't ponder these things. Nor do most people.
         
         Enjoy your carrots. I'll enjoy my meat. I don't consider you hypocritical for putting one life form above another. We all have to eat.

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            Uplifterxposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That's true. But killing a living, conscious animal is entirely different from killing a mushroom plant.

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               Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Says you.

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                  psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  On what basis is killing a sentience being indistinguishable from killing a non-sentient one?
                  
                  It would be nice to see more rationality in discussions.  I also eat meat in small amounts.  I do it because hedonism/enjoyment overpowers my moderate level of guilt for killing thinking beings unnecessarily.
                  
                  But at least I am honest about it. I don't try to change the facts to make my behavior seem morally unproblematic.

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                     jponiatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Please don't write this question off as snark or sarcasm, because I really want to know the answer.  Is it immoral when a bear eats a fish?

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                        psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        On a deontological front, morality belongs to the person.  The "bear" person is incapable of feeling the duty to protect sentient life.  So: no.  Bear can kill fish, can even kill bear, without being immoral.  The human person would need to refer to a basis by which they have the right to eat the fish when the fish does not want to be eaten (e.g. religious dominion, God wants it).
                        
                        On a utilitarian front, the bear person must consume fish to live.  The human person has no such need (in the first world).

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                           jponiatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           I appreciate the answer, and don't disagree, except to a nit-picky bit:  Bears, like humans, are omnivores - they can survive by eating berries, grains, etc. and strictly speaking, do not have to eat fish to survive.  To your point though, they probably don't consciously ponder the implications.

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                              psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Bears in a zoo could eat berries or commercial diets not using meat. 
                              
                              Bears in the wild only have access to grasses and berries for part of the season during which they are active and these food don't cause much development of fat.  If they did not also eat fish they would not gain the weight necessary to hibernate and so would die. Thus the bear has a much easier "it's me or the fish" situation.
                              
                              Also: many of the fish they eat are going to terminal spawning, so the moral bear person could argue that they are only being deprived or hours or days of life.

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                     Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I see it as arrogance. What makes us special? What makes life forms who are more similar to us than others more special? Nothing, in my opinion.
                     
                     We kill to eat. It is what we are. Everyone does it.

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                        psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        So to be more neutral, you are arguing a naturalist right to eat the diet you have evolved to eat.  That is a perfectly valid argument to make.  But it is your personal ethic which and other people will not share it or will consider it a fallacy. For example they could say your are also evolved to raise or hunt your own food and be devoured by tigers.  But these parts of the natural are okay to sacrifice?

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                           Uplifterxposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Some people would love to hunt their own food.

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                              psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              And if they did, and held a naturalistic ethic, that would be a very ethically coherent lifestyle.

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                                 Uplifterxposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Agriculture is more ethical. It's more ethical to behead a group of wheats annually.

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                                    jponiatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    According to whom, exactly?  Aside from yourself.

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                                       Uplifterxposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       Look over your shoulder.

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                                          jponiatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          I see my wife and kids, who like to eat a healthy, balanced diet of meat and vegetables as much as I do.

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                                             psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                             So you also assume that all vegetarian diets are unhealthy.  This is also objectively disprovable.
                                             
                                             Everyone gets to live as they see fit, but it is good to align this with accurate data and rational ethical decision making.

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                                                jponiatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                I specifically did not say that all vegetarian diets are unhealthy.  I said that a balanced diet of meat and vegetables is healthy.
                                                
                                                As to the utilitarian model you mentioned - can you point me to a resource where I might read more about it?

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                                       psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       According to a utilitarian model where the killing for foods that do not have interests is superior to the killing of foods that have interests.
                                       
                                       You don't have to agree with that position to see that it is morally coherent.

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                                    Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    Did you get the wheat opinion? Is it ethical to kill deer who are slowly dying from starvation because the population is too large. I contend the hunter is more of an environmentalist than the average environmentalist!

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                           Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           I'm not arguing the right to eat the diet I evolved to eat. All I'm saying is that all life is life. All death is death. We aren't as superior as we want to believe. Death must happen for life to go on. Who decides that a cow has more right to life than a soy bean? We do. Why? 
                           
                           I'm not suggesting we starve ourselves out of consideration of other life. I'm simply saying we kill to eat. We kill because we don't want to coexist with bugs in our homes. We kill because 60 miles an hour suits our fancy more than saving the skunks and opossums. To pretend that being a vegetarian is somehow a more humane way of life is pretending.

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                              Uplifterxposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Says you.

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                              psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              I think you need to develop a more coherent opinion not based on the false assumption that giving up meat requires starving, or that other peoples beliefs are objectively inferior.
                              
                              If you are not saying it is good to eat what is natural for your species, what are you saying other than 'I do what I want and assume it is optimally moral because I rock and other people suck'.

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                                 Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 
                                 
                                 Who said giving up meat requires starving? I said giving up all food would equate to starving. You might attempt to read what is written and not read into it what you want.
                                 
                                 I never said anyone's beliefs were inferior. Did you read anything I wrote? Let's review the comments in favor of vegetarianism and eating less meat.  They were:
                                 
                                 It would be nice to see more rationality in discussions.  I also eat meat in small amounts.  I do it because hedonism/enjoyment overpowers my moderate level of guilt for killing thinking beings unnecessarily.
                                 
                                 why humans kill and torture animals for food?
                                 
                                 Of course, violence comes easy. And violence is profitable as well. No wonder that people kill animals for food, and then rationalize their cruelty.
                                 
                                 It appears, from where I am sitting, that those who eat less meat are attempting to step on a morally superior high horse. I am simply saying that death is death. Other life forms die so that we can all survive and all life deserves respect.
                                 
                                 You don't rock as much as you would have me believe.

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   Repairguy47posted 11 years ago

   P E T A
   
   People Eating Tasty Animals!

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   FatFreddysCatposted 11 years ago

   If the good Lord didn't want us to eat the animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat... or so darned tasty.

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