Viewing the devout believers on both far ends only.
Other than the fact that one claims the existence of God and one claims the non existence of God, can anyone explain to me the difference in the two, in practice?
Both ends claim to know a truth they cannot prove.
Both ends consider their views so beneficial to mankind that they must be preached.
Both ends use catch phrases which imply a deficiency in any who disagree.
Both ends lack the ability to see the humor in their dogmatic stands.
Both far ends appear to lean on the thoughts of others for their conclusions and are unwilling to think for themselves.
I don't see much difference.
The difference is as
Light & darkness.
(Light is, darkness is the absence of what is.)
You may be on to something here - the enlightened atheist, understanding the world around them much better, lives in the light. The theist, living in the ignorance of millemia past, does not have that light; the light is absent just as knowledge and truth are.
A nice spin and one that illustrates the point of the forum very well. "But I am right and my way is the light, damn it".
OK I am not real certain what my way is, or what your way is but still, I will go to my grave fighting against you and for me.
So I try to keep Jesus as my light. Big problem is that He keeps showing me other lights. Like wilderness here. A beacon of an antagonistic (to me) view that constantly enlightens me. Or science and nature that constantly reveals new truths.
But seriously and maturely I say: "I am rubber you are glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you" So there!
Yeah, Eric, this one was a little tongue in cheek. Also some truth should one dig far enough (as you did) but just a giggle on the surface for those that won't dig.
Not sure I'm unhappy with the returned glue, though - it often comes back from you changed just a bit. Just enough to make one sit back and think about things some. Our interactions do indeed work both ways.
Yes Eric, keep the world filled with conflict, that is most certainly the way to peace.
That is your version of maturity?
That is because you start from false premises and end up with false conclusions.
Unwilling to think for themselves?
Rewind to my 12 year old self in a Catholic school surrounded by Christians and never being told Atheism exists. Do you think someone knocked on my door and taught me about Atheism? The first time I ever knowingly talked to another Atheist about religion I was in college.
Someone is unwilling to think alright!
Boy Rad Man that is the extreme opposite end of the spectrum from public schools. I guess as parents we can pick our schools and then our work is cut out for us trying to balance the deal out. So either way they do not become like an ATM ;-), card and pin in and only one thing coming out.
Seriously? That's the best you could do? Well, OK. The fact that the nuns didn't clue you in to atheism certainly repudiates that particular point.
Where are you from? You're always up at like 4 am my time. Does that mean you haven't gone to bed yet or you get up before the rooster?
Yes, coming to the opposite conclusion of those around you requires thought. Excepting what others tell you on faith requires no thought.
Do you need some time to think about that?
Nope Rad man no time at all your use of "opposite" says volumes.
Eric, the opposite of the existence of a God is no God exists.
Nope. I disagree. Except for those only capable of linear thought and empirical proof.
Sorry, Eric, but we are quite capable of complex thought, that is the reason why we require evidence for claims of things that have never been shown to exist. It is indeed thought that separates those who make those claims and those who require proof.
First off ATM -- who is we. I have never even seen one comment on one of your comments agreeing with you. I want to see just one of your We.
And secondly if you are incapable of thoughts based on belief -- you have no standing to determine the validity thereof.
I am one of the we. I agree with almost everything ATM says. You will notice we are both here disagreeing with you.
It takes thought to come to the opposite opinion of what one is being taught.
And secondly if you are incapable of thoughts regarding your belief, you have no standing to determine the validity thereof. Are you admitting that you have not given your beliefs thought?
Reading comprehension problems, Eric, or is that just one of your tactics to obfuscate?
I didn't say anything about agreeing with me, please read the post again.
Again, reading comprehension issues, Eric? I never said that, either.
Seriously dude, can you not understand the written word?
I just find it funny. Whining that the nuns didn't tell you about atheism when you were Catholic. Someone tells you about atheism, so you become an atheist. Where in the process did you think for yourself?
Where did I say anything about nuns?
Where did I say anything about complaining I was not taught about Atheism?
Where did I say anyone told me about Atheism?
Do you have comprehension problems? Because that would make sense.
The more likely scenario is you are suffering from early onset Alzheimer's. You said (not two days ago) Rewind to my 12 year old self in a Catholic school surrounded by Christians and never being told Atheism exists. Do you think someone knocked on my door and taught me about Atheism? The first time I ever knowingly talked to another Atheist about religion I was in college. .
If you don't like it, don't say it. You appear to follow a lead.
Please highlight where I said anything about nuns.
Please highlight where I complained that I was not taught about Atheism.
Please highlight where I said someone taught me about Atheism before I already was one.
I said I went to a Catholic school. Didn't say anything about nuns.
I didn't complain about not being taught Atheism was an option, I simply stated what happened.
I said the first time I spoke to another Atheist was in college, where did you get that someone taught me Atheism?
Ah, the misspelled name. You know how irritating that is. I suppose I should respond in kind. Soooo...
Ok I thought and thought, but don't know what to do with rad man.
Are you saying nuns didn't teach you in Catholic school? I'm not catholic. Don't know many catholics. got my education on catholicism from Sister Act. Oh well. Either way, is it the function of schools to ensure everyone is aware of atheism? Mine didn't have a class on Hinduism. Should I feel somehow slighted? Should I whine about it? Because, your comment implies that you were mistreated in some manner because no one clued you in about atheism.
And, think about your post. You went to a catholic school. Surrounded by Christians. OH MY GOD. How horrible. What a tragic childhood. How many years of therapy did it take to overcome that wretched childhood?
You probably didn't know how wretched it was until that saint of an atheist deigned to clue you in about atheism. Damn the nuns. Oh, right. There were no nuns. Just little uniforms. Are you also upset that no one told you about blue jeans?
Yup, comprehension problems.
No nuns, no uniforms, lots of 70's jeans.
Never said I was hard done by.
Never said anyone explained Atheism to me.
Came to the conclusion on my own between 12 and 14 years old. Talked to my first other Atheist when I was in college.
Sorry about the name Emile.
Sorry. I still find your statement hilarious and accusatory unfairly. Think for yourself, make your own decisions and don't blame people for not telling you things. Information is free for the taking.
Notice, Rad Man, how Emile says things you didn't say and makes stuff up, then goes on to blame you for her own lack of comprehension skills? Hilarious.
Actually Beth, ATM is right. She is making stuff up. She's talking about nuns and uniforms, and me being taught about Atheism when I've repeatedly told her I was not.
Go back and look at the conversation.
I saw a little of it... I couldn't figure out why y'all were hung up on the issue, but then ppl from other forums probably wonder why any of us are hung up on these issues.
I'm simply jerking his chain. He seems to have a thick one.
Yes. Because, this is not a serious subject. Those who take it so seriously open themselves up to a lot.
What's not a serious subject? Religion or nuns? Maybe I should have read more. lol
I don't play that game. I know it's more popular than baseball on these threads, but I don't like it.
Beth, nuns are VERY serious. All the time. Trust me, I was one.
Of course, I kid. Most nuns are very joy filled women, and as a result, very fun loving and usually have razor sharp wit and a great sense of humor.
Either. What does it matter what anyone else thinks on the subject? I've never understood why anyone gets upset over the whole thing. It's all just what we think.
Show me where I blamed anyone. I showed you I did think for myself and came to the opposite conclusion that was being taught to me. Thought was required.
I honestly think you are having comprehension issues as you are constantly saying I've said stuff that I did not. No one ever taught me about atheism with I have told you repeatedly, but you seem to be unable to comprehend that.
No. What you said was you were in a Catholic school surrounded by Christians and no one bothered to tell you about atheism. Then, you said you first knowingly talked to an atheist in college. I see no evidence in that statement of independent thought. You did, subsequently, state that you decided you were an atheist at 12-14 (correct me if I'm wrong since I'm not going to go back through the thread to verify)
So, your subsequent statement appears to be defending your individual thought processes, but it came well after the initial statement.
I, personally, don't give a shit what you think; as long as you think. I feel the same about everyone. The only reason I jump in and give you a hard time is because you begin with the premise that your conclusions are the only valid conclusions. It doesn't respect the conclusions of others. So, when you imply that you are operating under conclusions you have adopted from others I comment.
Edit, I also comment when you make statements that are untrue and off base. This is the reason I appear to be consistently responding to your posts.
My original post.
"Unwilling to think for themselves?
Rewind to my 12 year old self in a Catholic school surrounded by Christians and never being told Atheism exists. Do you think someone knocked on my door and taught me about Atheism? The first time I ever knowingly talked to another Atheist about religion I was in college."
Notice, not only did I state I was 12 years old, but I didn't complain about not being taught about atheism, I just made the statement that I wasn't taught it an option nor should I suspect they would. Notice as well that I stated that the first time I ever talk to another was in college.
I suppose I could be wrong here (not that it happens often) but I think the point Rad might have been making is that he became an atheist even though he was a student being taught religion as fact at a religious school. And no one ever spoke to him about what he shouldn't believe about God, since, well, you know religious schools aren't generally hotbeds of atheist thought. He simply arrived at the conclusion on his own. I have an atheist friend who describes that as ''natural'' atheism. He looked at what was presented to him about religion and didn't believe it.
I got his point (from a subsequent post of his) but he simply appeared to be whining about not being told of atheism. Does anyone have an obligation to share that atheism exists? If so, when did atheism get special status?
Show me where I was whinning?
"Rewind to my 12 year old self in a Catholic school surrounded by Christians and never being told Atheism exists. Do you think someone knocked on my door and taught me about Atheism? The first time I ever knowingly talked to another Atheist about religion I was in college."
First you claimed I didn't say I was twelve and then you say I was whinning because the nuns didn't teach me Atheism.
Serious comprehension problems.
Yet, according to Emile, that is our problem.
Point at her and laugh, it's more fun that way?
Do you have a stick? You could poke her with it.
Didn't Emile just admit to pulling my chain? You say nothing to her about that?
It had dirty connotations. I didn't want to say anything. lol
Dirty? I'm at a loss. Although, most things with dirty connotations go over my head.
Well, I was kidding of course... but if you can't see a "that's what she said" in that sentence... I can't help you.
Lighten up. Sheesh. I didn't say you didn't say you were twelve. I said in a subsequent post you said you decided there was no God around that time.
Wow Emile, pay attention. You've gone on about me whining that the nuns didn't teach me about atheism and then I meet someone in College to explained it to me when I said nothing of the sort.
The first comment I made was in regards to you saying Atheism required no thought. I explained I had arrived at Atheism independently. Made no complaints and said nothing about any nuns.
I'm not sure why I bother.
Must you ask? Apparently so. That statement implies rad man doesn't expect to think for himself. Simply waiting for others to feed him pre-ordained conclusions.
Why would a school system built around a pre-ordained conclusion be expected to make a child aware of another? When the parents obviously chose that school because of the fact it was Catholic? I would think, if I were bitter about others not feeding me information, I'd be mad at my parents for choosing that school.
If I have a fruit stand and I spend my days selling fruit..I also baby sit a kid. Can he grow up bitter because I didn't regale the public on the benefits of vegetables simply because he happened to be coloring in the corner while Iwas making a living?
Uh... well yeah, your claim is that Catholic nuns are supposed to clue people into atheism.
You mean, like, being indoctrinated?
How that is supposed to support your claim about nuns is baffling. You still didn't explain how nuns are supposed to clue people into atheism? Explain how that works?
The cool thing about you is that when you don't have a valid argument you usually insist someone said something they didn't. Like now. I never said nuns were supposed to clue someone in about atheism. I think it is ridiculous that parents put kids in a religious school and in later years the adult complains that they didn't learn about other religions and beliefs. Why spend the money to have a religious school if you aren't going to attempt to raise them in that religion?
And, according to rad man's post he appears to have been indoctrinated twice; although I know atheists abhor the thought that someone becomes an atheist through indoctrination.
And, I never said that nuns were supposed to clue people in to atheism. I simply thought it was hilarious that someone would whine about the fact that a Catholic school didn't share that there were people other than Catholics in the world.
I was out for a good long bike ride which gave me the opportunity to think a little and our conversations in the forum popped into my mind and it suddenly dawned on me.
You site there telling Atheists and Christians that we are unable to think for ourselves while you yourself don't have ability to make up your own mind. Unable to think your own way to a conclusion and yet able to tells others that have made up their minds that we can't think for ourselves.
Funny and sad at the same time.
In my opinion that is important to have a faith in your sole. Faith in something really good and wrathful. The main aim for that is support. Your faith supports you in difficult situations.
I have faith in fillet of soul. yum.
- and yes, faith does come in handy in life.
And as John Lennon sang, "Whatever gets you through your life, its all-right
Now why you gotta twist stuff up? Why does complimenting A mean insulting B? Why can't A just mean A? You know what I mean my friend?
I guess you are right and I was wrong. I somehow thought I detected sarcasm.
I do like sarcasm, but sometimes Im just like... say it like it is, eh? (I used "eh" for you.)
Interesting, did you know that eh thing started because Second City TV (the tv show) was told they need more Canadian content by the CBC so they said what do you want us to do sit around drinking beer while frying bacon. And the CBC said yes, so they tried to mock Canadian Content and that was there biggest hit which spooned movies. Go figure.
That's the dude who ended up on News Radio show. He's funny. The short bus... oot in a boot.... these are my Canadian phrases to make you feel at home.
Ive been twice. Nova Scotia and Kanata.
No, that's not the dude from news radio. Dave Foley (news radio) was from "The Kids in the Hall"
Rick Moranis and Dave Thomas and the Great White North. Take off eh!
lol. I love them too, but what was the show Dave Foley was on then?
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