While flipping through the channels, I ran across a commercial that was very disturbing to me.
A man named Ron Reagan stated he was an unabashed atheist and was not afraid of burning in hell.
May God have mercy on him! I pray that he repents of his sins and asks Jesus into his heart and becomes saved.
To live in constant fear of eternal torture and burning must be a hell right here on earth. May you learn better one day, and absolve yourself of that terrible horror. Only you can save yourself from such a life, and I truly hope that you take the step one day.
There are lots of atheists out there, including me. I have no interest in our no desire to "become saved" because there's no reason to believe there is anything to be saved from. most of us are more than familiar with your beliefs, and don't buy it as true. Many of us, including myself, are former believers - even pastors, missionaries and theology students. Why on earth is it disturbing to you to realize that not everyone believes the sane thing that you do? Surely you realize that there are hundreds of religions all claiming to be right, and yours is just one. Surely you realize that not everyone in the world is a Christian, right?
Are you talking about GOD or Saddam Hussein?
Good Morning Paul, my brother in Christ. The one error you made here is putting this comment and invitation under the heading of "Religion and Foolosophy." It opens the door to a variety of beliefs. Consider using the next step "up" in categories, "Christianity, the Bible and Jesus." It won't eliminate the snarkies but at least you can identify those that are looking for exchange as opposed to the poor souls that are just trolling for arguments. (Still looking for an answer to my q on you home page.)
Hello Mishpat! You're right, it's in the wrong category. I was just very shocked by seeing that commercial and decided to start a discussion. I'm sorry I didn't respond to your question sooner. All my close kin are from Ashland Ky and rest are from Prestonsburg Ky. Name doesn't ring a bell but I'm sure we are distant kin.
Or you could have a conversation with a mixed group of people to discuss why you find the existence of even one atheist so disturbing. I would see it as evidence that salvation (as you define it) is indeed voluntary as the Bible claims.
If you only address people who agree with you, the only "discussion" you are likely to get is agreement that it is terrible and shocking. Given that I assume you already knew atheists existed, I am not entirely sure why.
Ok, I will engage in discussion with you. The KJV Of The Holy Bible says in the Book of John chapter 6 verse 44, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." What do you think about that?
I'll answer. Why should I believe that's true?
Because it is written in the Holy Bible. John 3:16-18 KJV, For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
But the king James version of the Bible is just one translation of one self-proclaimed Holy book out of dozens. That still doesn't answer the question of why it should be believed, Paul. Do you believe everything that is written in any book, just because it says it's true?
Are you afraid of burning in the hell proposed by any other Religion? I imagine that the answer is no. When you understand why you are not afraid of them, you may be able to understand why I'm not afraid of yours. The truth is we're both atheists. You're an atheist when it comes to Allah or Thor or Zeus or Krishna. I just believe in one less god than you do.
The first book of Moses called Genesis in the Holy Bible, KJV, Chapter 1 verse 1. In the beginning God created the heaven and earth. Those first four words, "In the beginning God" are the answer as to why I believe every word that is written in the Holy Bible. There is only one God, Revelation chapter 1 verse 8 KJV , I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, The Almighty.
I am very familiar with the Bible, thank you, but just because it says it's true doesn't make it true. The Koran says it's true, too. So does the Bhagavad Gita. Do you see why that's a circular argument? I believe the Bible because the Bible says it's true? Do you believe everything that proclaims itself true?
Well J, you have your beliefs and I have mine. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Yet I will rejoice in the Lord, I will joy in the God of my Salvation. I know the truth and the truth has made me free. Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
You're fine to believe whatever you want, but when you assert that other people, including me, are going to be tortured forever in hell for not believing it, I'm going to ask for evidence that it's true - and if ask you have is the claim without evidence whatsoever (the Bible is the claim, not the evidence of that claim) I'm not likely to believe you. It doesn't seem like you understand why the only argument you've presented is circular, and you don't seem to realize that the king James version of the Bible was not the first or even best translation of the Bible. How much do you know about history and the history of your church? What church do you even go to? What denomination are you?
Well my first post in this discussion was about the commercial I saw of a man who said he was an unabashed atheist and he wasn't afraid of burning in hell. It surprised me to see that on T.V. I guess times are changing. However, I am going to believe what I want to believe. All I need to know about the history of Jesus's church is In the Bible. I attend a Independent Baptist Church.
Do you understand that no one, aside from certain subsets of Christians, are afraid of burning in the hell you believe in?
If the only history you care about is in the Bible, you're missing out on a lot of history, including where the Bible came from.
I was raised Baptist, and was a Baptist missionary, going to a bible college for several years. I understand what you believe, but I'm asking why. Why are you a Christian? Just because it's culturally popular where you are?
I'll open my heart the best I can here. I have tried to not learn about worldly things. I am more concerned with Heavenly things. I've tried to keep my life and thoughts simple. Nothing in this world is more important to me than God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The things of this world don't interest me. I am laying up treasures in Heaven. I don't want to burn in hell. I want to follow Jesus and keep his commandments and do the will of God. I don't want to be a menpleaser. In fact, apart from my wife and children, I have very few friends. I do enjoy my Church family and consider most of them friends. I wouldn't dare take a chance on not believing in the Lord. It's hard trying to live this way because satan is trying to destroy me. But I know that God will not allow him to tempt me above that which I am able to bear but will with the temptation also provide a way of escape so that I will be able to bear it, (I think I got that right, I didn't look it up). Anyway, I hope this lets you know why I'm a Christian and why I believe in the Lord.
It sounds to me like you're afraid. You're afraid of knowledge, you're afraid of your God so much that you're terrified that if you learn something, your faith will collapse and you'll end up in that hell you're so afraid of just because you doubted or questioned something. if you're so afraid of this god you claim is real, why on earth would you worship it as good? Is your faith so very shaky that even gaining knowledge about it could topple it? Being that afraid of learning and knowledge makes me think that your faith is not nearly as strong as you would like to claim it is. I used to be terrified too, at times when I was a believer. I'm not afraid anymore. I am not afraid of an invisible, hidden, unprovable god. I'm not afraid of hell. I'm not afraid of knowledge or learning, and I deeply care about truth. Don't you want to find out if what you believe is true? I want to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible, and in order to do that, you have to actually demonstrate something is true before believing it. If you believe God created you, he also created your brain - do you think he doesn't want you to use it?
Well there you are then. Proof that salvation is involuntary. Count yourself lucky that the Father has drawn you and the rest of us poor souls will burn in hell because we didn't get the phone call to our hearts.
When you really think about it the traditional church doctrines on salvation don't make sense do they.
Why are you "shocked"? I'm not sure I get why atheism would be shocking to anyone.
I personally find it disturbing that this is considered disturbing to/by anyone.
The world is a big place. People believe all sorts of different things. This is not news, it's the real world.
On the contrary, considering the history of man, especially those identified in the Bible, it is not shocking, nonsense nor news worthy that man has a mind of his own. Problem is most think God should think like they do. But He doesn't and He won't, so make your choice. Its really between you and God.
Well actually, that is my point. Not an opinion. The Bible says we don't think like Him. As well, it indicates man has a mind of his own, not in tune with God.
Ever notice the ones that hate God, or the thought of God, the most are those that have been abuse the most by religion, not by God? Logic dictates that just because one chooses not to believe something, doesn't mean it disappears. Consider a bus heading down the street at 40mph (I know, you've heard this before) and decide its not there. Positional thinking would have you cross the street because the bus is not there. Logic would dictate otherwise.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1.
I neither hate God, religion or you, nor have I ever been abused by it. In seeing you and the way you interact with others, you avoid responding directly in an effort to avoid being called out on the blatant falsehoods and snide sideways insults that you dish out. You just make stuff up, assert it's true and then complain if you think someone is rude to you or insults or belittles your intelligence. It works both ways, you know. Posting without responding directly and just making things up as you go along doesn't keep you off the hook.
I've said this to you before, let's see if it sinks in this time. Most atheists, myself included, do NOT assert that there is no God. But you can keep calling us fools while ignoring what we actually do say, if that works for you.
That's right. Proverbs 1:7 KJV, The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Ecclesiastes 12:13 KJV, Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
I think you know darn well that fear in that context in Hebrew means respect, not the terror that you seem to be exhibiting. Don't you see that being taught to be afraid is a great way to control people? Do you want your children to be afraid of you, or to respect you? Would you set them on fire for an hour if they disobeyed you? Would you torture them?
Do you keep his commandments? Which ones?
I'm going to leave it at this, Matthew 7:6 KJV, Give not that which is Holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the fires of hell.
I understand. It's a lot easier to simply write off everyone who disagrees with you as less than you or unworthy than to try to have an open and honest dialog. But if this was the go-to method for dealing with unbelievers, how would anyone ever be saved? I mean, do missionaries go to foreign countries, call the natives pigs and then leave because. they're unworthy of conversation? That seems a bit counter productive, don't you think? Have a good day.
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