Faith Contradicts Logic

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   marinealways24posted 15 years ago

   Faith is a clear contradiction to logic.
   
   
   Use an example of a serial killer. What would an emotional judgment based on faith be? Torture and death? Is this logical.
   
   The logical decision would be to learn from this person to see where the parents and society went wrong in raising this person. If the person was studied from a logical standpoint, repeated offenses could be limited.
   
   If the person is put to death from an emotional faith based judgement, nothing is learned.
   
   The faith based decision contradicts a logical decision, I welcome correction.

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      Lady_Eposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Lol. I just love your Q's.
      Faith is Spiritual, Logic isn't. I'm assuming from your Scenario you are referring to the Muslim faith.

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         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Ty. Not referring to a specific faith, just faith in general in comparision to a logical judgement vs. a faith based judgement.

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      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Correction
      
      The death penalty is not faith based.  It is based on secular law.
      
      Remember "Thou shall not kill".
      
      Sorry marinealways24, just another one of your idiotic attacks on religion.

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         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Our laws were pretty much founded from your belief book. That was it's purpose. The death penalty is faith based that it is the right choice in some places. If it was logically correct, wouldn't all honor it instead of only some? It is a faith based judgement. Your bible is the law of faith.

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            Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Correction again.
            
            Jesus Christ's New Covenant which is to worship God only and love thy neighbor as thyself supersedes the old Levitical Laws.  Meaning Christians do not follow the old laws in the Old Testament any more.  One of those laws that Christians do not follow is an eye for an eye.  Hence the death penalty is not Christian.
            
            Like I say the death penalty is secular.  Or you could also say that the death penalty is Torah or Jewish law.
            
            I would agree with you if you were saying Jewish faith based decision contradicts a logical decision.
            
            The Jewish faith base as well as the Islamic faith base are the reason for the continued Palestinian/Israeli dispute because they both still follow an eye for an eye.  As someone else so wisely said "Taking physical land is not New Covenant in nature."

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               Maximus591posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Then christians need to practice what they preach.
               
               Paedophiles, homosexuals, abortionists are all subject to the fury of demented christians. 
               
               I guess this relaxing of an eye for an eye thing still needs a little more work, eh?

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               Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Nonsense.
               
               There are plenty of religionists who think the death penalty should be applied. And plenty of religionists who say "Thou shalt not kill.... The innocent"
               
               This is the trouble with believing garbage without thought.
               
               Here you are  - a single middle aged man with strong opinions about what young women should be allowed to do with their own body.
               
               Unthinking sheep like behavior.
               
               Baaaah!

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                  Deanna Raginposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Please do not take this the wrong way Evolution Guy but I notice you post mostly on religious topics. Why spend your life and energy (and over 400 posts) defending something that is so fake? Are you lost? Are you looking for truth? You will never convince people who have actually experienced a divine relationship with God that God does not exist. If these people are all crazy and there is no God then why participate in the madness? What is your purpose?

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                     Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     I would guess his purpose would be to express his deep concern for the (sheep ) believers who don't use logic in their life and he wants to better understanding of their beliefs.
                     
                     But, that's just a guess and probably not close either.

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      mobilephone guideposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      it would be logical to kill yourselves.

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      speaseposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Here is the definition of faith.  Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.  It is completely illogical that you can't have faith in anything. If you are talking strictly about religious faith, your argument still doesn't work.  If you believe there is no supreme being, you still have faith that you are correct.

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      mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Please look up the meaning of faith in a dictionary .

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         Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         

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   Cagsilposted 15 years ago

   Faith contradicts logic?
   
   No it doesn't.
   
   You can have a logical faith, which is reinforced by learned knowledge and understanding of whatever it is you have faith in.
   
   Example: I have faith in my own ability, which is based on my logical knowledge and understanding of what I can do.
   
   My faith would be based on logic and not be a contradiction.

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      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      The best example I can use is the responses in this thread. Do you see the different ideas that come from faith and those that come from logic? With logic, faith isn't neccessary. I think the 2 can and should be separated. Mixing them together only adds contradiction and confusion. Simply because you have faith in your ability doesn't mean your ability is logical. If you could define your ability simply with logic, it wouldn't need faith to be understood.

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   wyanjenposted 15 years ago

   Faith is a tool you use when your logic fails you.
   If I don't understand a situation, I use faith to fill in the blanks.
   
   Broad example: I don't understand an illness but I have faith that a doctor does, so I trust his treatment without needing to logically consider exactly how an antibiotic works in the body.

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      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I love it! Spot on. Thank You

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         wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Why thanks marine you're welcome.

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   kessposted 15 years ago

   Faith is completely logical to the one who possesses it.
   
   For faith is one's perception and awareness of a truth.
   
   Faith comes when one hears from God himself. And the word of God is truth.
   
   For truth is an affirmation and conviction from the heart of person.
   
   Truth  is not necessarilly taught, but can be encouraged by stating it.
   For it may or may not lies within the receiver's heart and it larger depends on state of the heart that will determine whether the person hears the truth or not.
   
   He who does not know truth cannot have faith.
   
   A lot of the "faith" that is spouted is mere "strong hope" or wishful thinking.

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      Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I would have to disagree with two statement you made-
      
      "Faith is completely logical to the one who possesses it".
      
      This statement is false. Because faith in a higher being- such as "god" is not based on facts or logic. It is a faith placed on irrational understanding of religion.
      
      Your other statement- "Faith comes when one hears from GOD himself. And the word of God is truth".
      
      This statement is conjecture based on no facts. The 'will' of a 'god' is unknown, because 'god' has never really physically talk to anyone. Because, he is non-existent in reality.
      
      Reality exists. Reality exists free of independent thought, desires, will, or wishes. Reality is all knowable.
      
      I don't mean to 'attack' what you said, but faith has different meanings for many different people.
      
      Either way, have a good day.

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         kessposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Casgil, you have confirmed the validity of my statement with your comments, which also show that you have not fully undertood them.
         
         For it is impossible for one to either undermine or live by another's faith.
         Therefore just as it may be impossible to convince me about your ability, the same it is impossible for me to convince you about my God.
         
         The difference among people about the concept of faith is based on their reception of truth, which has much to do with the nature of hearts and little to do with facts or truth itself.

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            marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Faith contradicts truth.

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         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         His ideas are stated fully from a faith based position. A clear example of how faith confuses logic.

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         Deanna Raginposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         You practice faith every day. You make goals for tomorrow having faith that you will actually be able to accomplish them. When in school, You make plans to graduate but graduation day is never promised. Point is, you don't know if you will be alive tomorrow but you have faith that you will be. Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. You can not see God any more than you can see tomorrow. So what is it going to kill you to have faith in God.
         
         Have faith. That way if you are right and God does not exist you will have lost nothing. But if you are wrong and God does exist. May he have mercy on your soul.
         
         Be Blessed!

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            Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Okay, just as you say- faith? Faith in myself. Sure. I have plenty of that.
            
            Faith in an external supposed 'god'. You're kidding right?
            
            As for living day by day, I do that. How ever, I am self-responsible for my entire life, so I will know if I put my life in jeopardy. If I put my life in jeopardy, then yeah- tomorrow may never come.
            
            I will have lost something- myself respect. My dignity would be non-existent, like yours is now. Religion kills pride in oneself.
            
            How can you ever achieve oneness(know thy self) with yourself, if you are not listening to only you?
            
            You can never achieve oneness if you seek external guidance.
            
            I study for a great number years, as a catholic and as a non-believer of all religions now.
            
            It's disturbing that a man-made thing such as the 'god' concept, can enslave so many people.

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   Denno66posted 15 years ago

   I am going to have a nice day, thank you

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      Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         

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      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      But of course, being a sheep is blissful! Being a thinking individual is stressful.

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   thisisoliposted 15 years ago

   Faith is illogical that is true, in your example however I disagree.
   
   "
   Use an example of a serial killer. What would an emotional judgment based on faith be? Torture and death? Is this logical.
   
   The logical decision would be to learn from this person to see where the parents and society went wrong in raising this person. If the person was studied from a logical standpoint, repeated offenses could be limited.
   
   If the person is put to death from an emotional faith based judgement, nothing is learned. "
   
   The most logical solution to prevent a killer from killing again is to kill him, leniency is illogical, and indeed is being proven wrong in most countries which apply it.
   
   Saying you can learn from a killers mind is like saying you could put a broken CD in a drive and try to play it.  Even if eventually you got the CD by making a custom CD player, it would not work on any other broken CD, which would have been broken in an infinitely different number of ways.

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      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      You are comparing human life with a CD analogy. How logical is that? I didn't say you could fix a broken mind, but you can learn from it. If you kill it, you learn nothing. I didn't say glorify the killer and let them go. I simply said don't kill them. What does killing teach children? That it's alright to kill when our government sentences death. Killing is a contradiction to life. I'm sorry this isn't logical to you. What if the person is actually innocent and has been wrongfully convicted by a persuaded jury? Did you not think about that one? Possibly because you made a faith based comment to kill a killer based on your emotions. Just because killing a killer would be "easier" in prevention doesn't mean it would be logical compared to another decision.

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   drej2522posted 15 years ago

   hateful people are

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   UPStarposted 15 years ago

   My faith is based on logic.
   It is based on scientific, and historic facts. It becomes logical to put your faith in the God who wrote the Bible and in what it says when you actually take time to study apologetics. (that means the evidence the Bible is TRUTH)
   kind've like putting faith in a doctor when you need surgery. You know the man studied medicine, you look at his track record, and you get to know him. Then you put your life in his hands because you have faith he can do the surgery. It is logical to have faith in that doctor.
   In the same way, when I read the bible, see its truth in society, in my life, see the archeological proof, the scientific evidence, the historic records... It is logical to conclude it is truth and I need to do something about that.
   It would also be logical to study the Bible before dismissing it as a fairy tale

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   Revive@OwnRiskposted 15 years ago

   Faith seems to be a powerful weapon to use to perpetuate lies. And, the most viscious part is that if you "lack faith" you are an offense to "God", even if what you believe is completely false. It's the worst form of brainwashing.
   
   I'm not a disbeliever, per se, but I'm certainly not the "believer" I used to be. I think there's way too much sacred superstition and falsehoods being perpetuated by "having faith."
   
   After all, how many years did you have faith that Santa arrived every Christmas Eve? Faith in a lie is powerful.
   
   Not trying to get everyone worked up over this, but it's my reality. Facts are a good thing.

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      Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Hmmm....? Good post.

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    falana11posted 15 years ago

    it would be logical to take all the time and money spent on the worlds religon's and spend it on schools, healthcare,food ,jobs and housing for the people of the world.that will never happen because religon is baist on capitolism,war,and greed,disgised as charity.only when people quit following blindly will the world ever be at peace.i am not saying that there isnt a higher power.but i havnt seen a religon yet that wasnt all about control and cash.i am pritty sure that god is not happy with the way most people treat each other in his name.

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    drej2522posted 15 years ago

    On a serious note here...I think I contradict logic!

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       Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       You think that you contradict logic?
       
       You can't. The complexity of the mind and our ability to form rational and sane thoughts, it is impossible for you to do so.

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          drej2522posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I was implying that I didn't have the ability to form rational or sane thoughts. But I was also not being serious at all! (And yes, I know I said I was being serious)
          
          And...you say you reject all religious beliefs...does that mean you don't believe there is a supreme being, or just man's interpretation of it??

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             Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Correct on both accounts.

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    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    And the correct answer is - - - - Yes! HOORAY!
    
    Faith contradicts all logic.
    
    Actually, faith is technically a 'spiritual' thing.
    
    And, if you know anything about spiritual garbage, like religion, then you know it defies logic.
    
    A spiritual faith, like that in religion, is founded on the basis of no facts. It grasps for thin air.
    
    To be specific- when you go outside what's called "REALITY" and you get into the 'god' concept, you are no longer dealing with real things.
    
    The 'god' concept was made by man. Plain and simple!
    
    What you should be really outraged at is WHY religion was created?

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    drej2522posted 15 years ago

    Cagsil..are you atheist or agnostic?

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       Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I reject all religious beliefs whatsoever.
       
       No religion affiliations at all.

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