"...call those things that be not as if they were." (Romans 4:17) Is this "tool"

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  1. profile image0
    savvydatingposted 10 years ago

    "...call those things that be not as if they were." (Romans 4:17) Is this "tool" available to all?

    Is this active Faith statement (of Romans 4:17) available to secularists, naturalists, Christians, or anyone? In other words, is this a built in "something" that all individuals have at their disposal to use as they wish? Even more specifically, is "calling that which we wish for" a subconscious power we all have? (Think Joseph Murphy) Or am I taking this verse out of context, in that God was speaking of his having raised the dead and given Abraham and Sarah a son in their old age?
    I could use some thoughts and/or clarification on this one.


  2. profile image0
    Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago

    No, I don't think it's a tool really.  For sure it's not available to secularists and nonbelievers, because it's a promise for those who do believe in God.     And I say it's not a tool for even Christians, because a tool is something we can take out and use at will, by our own power.    It's talking about Faith in the God who DID and DOES and CAN STILL call "those things that be not as though they were".   It's God who does that,  not us.   If you'll read that Scripture in depth, you'll see that it plainly says it's God who does that, not us (that is, if you have a correct version of the Bible).  Many "name-it-claim-it" preachers use that passage incorrectly (some of them realize it, some don't).   The mention of Abraham and Sarah shows that God knows past, present, and future (unlike humans), and that we should have Faith in Him and depend on His promises, as Abraham did in the finality of it.   Abraham's Faith was counted as "righteousness".   But for sure it didn't mean he had the power to call anything into being.
    I dunno who Joseph Murphy is that you mentioned,  but if he's trying to say everyone has some power to "channel" God or play God or use God as some kind of magic genie,  or even if he thinks our subconscious is as powerful as God, then......he's sadly mistaken.

    1. profile image0
      savvydatingposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Excellent answer, Brenda Durham. I have been struggling with the question of faith. Taken in context, it is the belief in God, plain and simple. Thank you.

  3. renegadetory profile image59
    renegadetoryposted 10 years ago

    A good translation of this verse to help you understand it better is the Amplified version.  It says: "As is written, I have made you the father of many nations. [He was appointed our father] in the sight of God in Whom he believed, Who gives life to the dead and speaks of the nonexistent things that [He has foretold and promised] as if they [already] existed."

    Is this power at any Christians disposal? Well, I have yet to meet anyone, other than perhaps a doctor who can give life to the dead and certainly nobody with an ability to speak of things that do not yet exist that are bound to exist in the near future save for the prophets in scripture.  Paul does speak of the gift of prophecy, but that's not what he is referring to here.

    It's not about us calling out what we wish for, though certainly scripture says that whatsoever you ask in the name of Christ it shall be given to you (the catch being it must be according to the will of our Father).  What Paul was referring to was Abraham's trust in God that He would make good on what He promised (what did not yet exist, but would soon come into being) despite the odds (the age of both himself and Sarah for starters).  It was because of his faith, not an adherence to the Law that Abraham would be the father of many nations (verse 13).

    1. profile image0
      savvydatingposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Hi renegadetory. I especially appreciate your last sentence. That is where I get tripped up - Law versus faith. Now I am beginning to see how I have made things needlessly complicated...by focusing on myself, as if I am required to be god...

    2. renegadetory profile image59
      renegadetoryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      We can only be made perfect (complete) by relying on and looking constantly to our Savior and Heavenly Father not by something we can do all on our own smile

  4. Lady Guinevere profile image66
    Lady Guinevereposted 10 years ago

    Mathew 5:
    43 `Ye heard that it was said: Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and shalt hate thine enemy;
    44 but I -- I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those cursing you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those accusing you falsely, and persecuting you,
    45 that ye may be sons of your Father in the heavens, because His sun He doth cause to rise on evil and good, and He doth send rain on righteous and unrighteous.
    46 `For, if ye may love those loving you, what reward have ye? do not also the tax-gatherers the same?
    47 and if ye may salute your brethren only, what do ye abundant? do not also the tax-gatherers so?
    48 ye shall therefore be perfect, as your Father who [is] in the heavens is perfect.

    1. profile image0
      savvydatingposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Lady Guinevere. Given my question, I'm not sure where you meant to go with these lovely versus, as my question pertains to faith and whether we can call our desires into existence. Could you clarify?


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