...when Jesus clearly said 'My Father is Greater than I' in John 14:28?
Nothing can be greater than God, so by Jesus' own words, we can deduce that Jesus did not profess to be God, because he professes that there is a power Greater than him (Jesus). Why then do many Christians firmly believe that Jesus is God? Where does the conviction come from?
what difference does it make....god is concept...whether u call it jesus or god or allah or yawh or say zeuh....does it make any difference...concept of god is simple , all powerful , omnipotent , omnipresent , first cause creator etc...in end it is concept...
Logics dictate that in a Father Son relationship the father must be the greater of the two otherwise there is no father nor son.
Logics also dictates that in a father son relationship the son must be exactly like the father otherwise he cannot be the son.
Understanding how the two remains true without any division nor contradiction in the concept will help you to know Father and Son.
If Jesus was God, then to whom was he praying in the Garden of Gethsemane?
The reason people believe that Jesus and the Father are the same is because of translations of copies that have dropped the Tetragrammaton YHWH from the scriptures. If you were to read Greek and Hebrew , You would find the YHWH(Jehovah) over 7,000 times.
Another thought how do we know that Jehovah name was used because Jesus himself went to the temple
and read from the scrolls
Lu 4:19 to preach Jehovah’s acceptable year.”
Lu 4:20 With that he rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were intently fixed on him.
Joh 17:26 I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”
There is no way he could be the same person as stating these words , because he could have drawn that attention to himself as to say you people should love me, not once did he take Glory from his Father Jehovah.
Another thought when in the presence of humans he did not ever say worship me.
Mt 4:10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
Satan was asking Jesus to worship him , Jesus reply was it is written, So satan knew Who Jesus was , not God the Father.
The demons also know.
Lu 4:34“ Ah! What have we to do with you, Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ? Did you come to destroy us? I know exactly who you are, the Holy One of God.”
Lu 4:41 Demons also came out of many, crying out and saying: “You are the Son of God.” But rebuking them, he would not permit them to speak, for they knew him to be the Christ.
The demons did not call Jesus God.
They said he was the son of God.
This is very clear and proven through the scriptures.
Apparently, not always. I believe that and I don't know that the subject was ever brought up to me prior to adulthood and I've been to a church possibly 3 times in the last 30 years.
Jesus's own words. But let me clarify.
Jesus also identified himself as Son of Man. Which he was. I think we all have a part of the I AM within us. I think Jesus simply either had a much greater part or he tapped into it at a vastly higher rate than we do. Jesus is an example of who God would be had he chosen to walk among us in mortal flesh. Not judging the average person, seeing the good where we see the bad, sacrificing anything on this plane of existence out of love for us. As the embodiment of who God would be were he here he should be viewed as having been God among us. When he experienced self doubt that was the man within him, nothing else. But, that was an example of how we could be, if we chose to. Doubting, yes; but staying the course.
The gospels are not, in my opinion, so much God inspired. They are testimonies by people who walked with Jesus and those testimonies are little more than average men attempting to come to grips with the meaning of what they experienced and, in parts, attempting to put it into a cosmic perspective. Were we meant to have something more solidified and less contradictory we would have it.
The most important thing we were given (and the only thing which truly matters) were Jesus's words, actions and example.
Is this your reasoning? Is this your argument? What is your position? When Jesus walked the earth, heaven was empty? Are God and Jesus the same being or is God, Jesus' dad?
LOL. Of course, if God is omnipresent that is a silly question. I don't see God as a being separate from creation. At any moment. At any place.
God is the father of all and he is in all things.
Im reminded of my youth. My friend and I planned a trip to a large lake some distance away. We invited our gf's. Future gfs, We promised to provide everything needed for the weekend. Camping equipment, tent for 12 people. Coleman lanterns, fuel, charcoal, rafts, etc etc. Ice chest, beverages. etc. Fishing poles, you name it. The young ladies inquired of the situation and we requested they bring food, picnic stuff, if they would.
The weekend would be arduous. Huge lake. Summer weather. Swimming to a small island in the lake. All the activities one would expect of a weekend at the lake.
The young ladies, one of them, brought a small sandwich baggie containing 5 or 6 small slices of peeled carrot sticks the size of french fries.
Very sad. Had you been able to channel the I AM the carrot sticks would have been enough. Had you known how to fish. Which it doesn't appear you do.
Im not certain that we did bring fishing equipment, not that it would be necessary, we could have scrambled along the banks looking for old fishing line, a rusty hook and cork are usually found amongst the flotsam and jetsam at any lake. Maybe dig some worms. It was a different type of excursion to the lake than scaling perch. Thankfully there was a Sonic 30 miles away.
Well, with a Sonic within reach who needs to conjure up a miracle?
Exactly. Which brings us full circle. Is there a double cheeseburger version of your rationalization? Something that would satiate the exuberance of an old mans memories, let alone two youthful young ladies?
A double cheeseburger version? Like, simplify the explanation? I thought that was pretty simple. What's to not get? God is everywhere. You can't empty heaven of God. Reality would cease to exist if God ceased to exist at any one location within reality. The trinity concept is a way to simplify the opinion that God is everywhere at once. No separation of beings, but a Oneness of beings.
Kiss and Tales mentioned Jesus as the first of the created beings but it is said that, in the beginning was the Word and the word was with God and the Word was God. I realize the JW bible changed the wording to create two separate beings out of that passage so they could claim Jesus was created but the original passage does not support that belief.
Put it this way. Jesus represents a part of God's nature. That particular part of God's nature
was showcased to us during his time on earth. The reaction to the death of Jesus showcases another particular part of God's nature. Apparently, God wanted us to be privy to these two parts during this particular time. I think, to bend us away from the interpretation of God given to us in the Old Testament.
The Word was " with " God creates the distinction. You are basing an entire belief on a wash.
Who doesn't base an entire belief on someone else's wash? And the Word was God.
By wash I mean you neither gain nor lose. KAT ignores "was" L2L ignores "with".
So we need a tie breaker.
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
It is settled, then. Do not make me chisel names from obelisks or reminisce my teenaged years again. I have other carrot stories and I am not afraid to use them.
Ive spent decades debating unbelievers in the reality of God only to see neophytes attempt to put Him back in the box. Whose side are they on, to try to argue the Lord God Almighty out of existence? Makes me wonder.
There's no need for logic outside what Jesus says about himself: For example, when Jesus called himself the Good Shepherd or the True Shepherd, David called God the Shepherd...
When Jesus talked to the crowd in his words "I tell you the truth, your Father Abraham rejoiced at the sight of my coming", He said so because when you read the account of Abraham and the three visitors and spoke to the one he called LORD or simply JEHOVAH or YAHWEH, this person told him that He would return to him but we understand that He returned to his seed (Abraham's).
Perhaps one of the most significant claims Jesus made about himself which invited stoning from the Jews was when He said "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was, I AM". Now we all know what God said to Moses in the burning bush: "Tell them that I AM has sent me".
Another significant thing written about Jesus is what we read in the book of Revelation that He is the Alpha and the Omega, The beginning and the end, which are the Exact words the God in the old testament (the book of Isaiah) uses when He says "I am the Alpha and the Omega".
Jesus did in fact claim to be GOD.
Why did Jesus say God was greater than him? Maybe the letter to the Phillipians says it best.
"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."--Phillipians 2:5-11
Jesus was also sent to be the ultimate example to humanity of what humans should behave like. He had no need to be forgiven from sin, yet he became baptized anyway, "to fulfill all righteousness." (Matthew 3:15) And he was of God, yet he was humble before God just like any mortal man ought to be.
Very fine understanding, Eric.
Excellent Eric.... Absolutely Excellent.....
"If you know me, then you will also know my Father. From now on you do know him and have seen him." Philip said to him, "Master, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us." Jesus replied, "Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father?' Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works."
“..Who being in the very nature God, did not consider EQUALITY with God something to be GRASPED (He let it go??)…”
And the verse that follows simply: “But he made himself nothing and took the very nature of a servant [or the form of], being made in human likeness. Or he found himself in appearance as a man.
One of the most interesting things about the human form is that
1. The body is referred to as the TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit. Even Christ called it that when he said “destroy this temple and I will rebuild it…”
2. Even though the human form was made a little lower than the angels man is exalted… David said, “Who is man that you are mindful of him? You created him a little lower than the angels but…”
Throughout scripture we see that the flesh is a very sacred thing and it is important to see it like that because of what God regards it to be.
So now, did Jesus claim to be God? Yes he did. Do we find it impossible to believe because God could not dwell amongst our sinful nature? I think that is where the problem is.
God said, “I will dwell among them--- and when he took up the form of a man he was called IMMANUEL which means God with us, also he was to be called JESUS who is our savior.
There are a couple of things you need to understand are different between US and JESUS. First, even though it makes sense to say that the son cannot be greater than the father [because I believe Jesus said that], that is to say only in terms of what we understand it to be according to our society ( I should add that ‘our society’ is different from that in Heaven as we read through the book of Job and find God asking him this question, “Do you know the laws of Heaven?”).
There is a very important distinction between US and JESUS. For example:
1. The priesthood of Levi (which is us) is clearly different from the Priesthood of Jesus [which is that of Melchizedek]. One is that of the destructible life and the other is of the indestructible life. The point here is that the bible clearly gives a distinction between us and Jesus Christ in Hebrew 7:9 where we find Melchizedek [ One who is without mother or father, without beginning or end of life] who likened to the son of Man. According to Hebrews chapter 7, we find that Levi gave a tithe through his ancestor because when Abraham gave a tenth, Levi was still in the womb of his ancestor. So Abraham was greater than Levi because Levi was his son.
But this is what is said about Jesus even though he referred to himself as the Son of Man: He said in John 20:41-44 “David calls him Lord, how then can he be his son?”
So now we can also see that the idea of SONSHIP which we consider to apply to Jesus because he was a Son of Man and mortal like us [which is an error to think like that because Jesus was in fact immortal. He said, “DESTROY THIS TEMPLE AND I WILL REBUILD IT”, ALSO “I HAVE AUTHORITY TO GIVE MY LIFE AND TAKE IT AGAIN”… He was no mere mortal] is different.
What we now end up with is ISAIAH 9:6: “...For unto us a child is born, to us a son is given. And His name shall be Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, and Prince of Peace…”
Of the Wonderful counselor we find the promise of the Helper who is the Holy Spirit, Of the Might God we find IMMANUEL; also God the Father, just like the Everlasting father, of the Prince of peace we find the Son, Jesus Christ.
Now Jesus Christ was the FIRST BORN of all creation (His body was prepared in the beginning) so that He became the FATHER of CREATION so that we find our son-ship in him because we came from him. We dwelled in Him in as much as He dwells within us as the Holy Spirit for whom we have been sealed for our day of redemption.
God became a man:
1. Colossians 1:15-23 “…For God was pleased the HIS FULLNESS dwell in him”
2. Philippians 2:6-11 “…He took up the form of a servant, being made in human likeness…”
3. Isaiah 52:13 “…See, my servant…”
The reason God became a man was in order that He might fulfill his word and also that He might become the ‘First Born’ of all creation--- creation of the flesh and also creation of the body of the resurrection so that He might be the first in ALL things, being the alpha and the omega, being the father of everything, God above all; THE FULFILLMENT of all things, JESUS CHRIST.
He also said that these were "not his teachings, but the teachings of the Father" You need to separate whether It was Jesus speaking of Jesus, or Jesus speaking from God. There is a difference. When God is speaking through Jesus, what is said takes on a whole different character. Peter said that Jesus was a man, approved of God. Smartest thing he ever said.
Well when Jesus was asked when the end was coming he replied that he did not know but only God his father knew. That makes them not the same. That makes them Father and Son.
Not all christians believe that Jesus was God, that there is a deeper mystery here.
I don't believe Jesus is God. I do believe, Jesus is the Son of God
Good thing he's not running for president. If you think Obama's birth certificate was hard to find or authenticate...
Ahh.. Religion. Divide, divide, divide.
What is God?
It is the small voice inside.
All men have a heart and it will surely lead
Up to the top of the mountain's peak
To the one you truly seek.
Listen to your heartbeat.
It is your guiding song.
In the deepest deep, and the darkest dark,
lies the Light of The One.
Remember, remember, remember,
The child is always right.
For only they posses the eyes,
that can guide you through the Night.
"I come not to bring peace, but, division and a sword." Worked pretty well, I'd say.
Do you mean 2 voice spoke through Christ? John 10vs 1 and 2 "I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep."
John 10vs 7 "Therefore Jesus said again, I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep." vs 9 "I am the gate, whoever enters through me will be saved"
vs11 "I am the good shepherd..."
Surely, from this text, does not Jesus say that He was the shepherd because he is the one who enters by the gate, but that he himself was the gate? Or was He insane? How could he be something by which something enters but also be the thing which enters? Isn't that what 'all in all' means; the true meaning of 'I and my father are one'?
I agree with you Credence.
http://hub.me/aiV1A Consider this Biblical view.
Jesus is a part of the Holly Trinity
Mihai biblically and historical Jesus has nothing to do with trinity. Trinity comes from believing in a three headed god triad.
Which comes from Eypt centuries ago in the years of BCE .Now where did Eypt get this belief and practice from , Acient babylon .The founder and builder was nimrod and opposite of the Heavenly Father who was his enemy
To be more clear since this is a pagan belief it has nothing to do with Jesus.
Just wanted to explain that .
It has quite a bit to do with Jesus. The trinity is simply a way to explain the omnipresence of God. It has nothing to do with three gods.
But you are still calling Jesus a God he never called himself a God nor did he sieze the opportunity to be called a God when on earth.
Omnipresent does not exist in Hebrew or Greek it is a man made belief or Doctrin.
Show the scripture where it uses this word.
But I will give you a scripture that simply proves they are separate from each other or mental thinking.
Based on Mt 26:39 And going a little way forward, he fell facedown, praying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.”
There is two different minds of wills Jesus bows down himself to the Heavenly Father.
Tradition of Trinity belief is very strong certainly it is altered to snare people.
Jesus said himself we must worship in spirit and truth.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”
If not we have no reward and a waste of time.
Isn't it splitting hairs to say that Jesus (the being that gave up godhood temporarily to become human) is not a god? Both before and after his existence on earth he was a god, after all.
One must, occasionally, use one's own brain and not be spoon fed by a particular religious sect..Out of curiosity, are you claiming that God is not omnipresent? If so, why?
Yes, he did do that. However, Jesus (while in the flesh) was tied to a cosmic understanding by the flesh. He had no recollection of any existence prior to that one. Which is why his sacrifice is all that more amazing. He went on faith.
I see it more as our understanding of God bows to the true nature of God, which we cannot know. Jesus, the man, was simply a conduit to help enhance our understanding.
I do believe it can snare people, when taught against a simple understanding of the meaning.
I have no idea why you pointed this out. What it has to do with the idea of the trinity is a mystery to me. Worshiping with spirit and truth does not preclude an acceptance of the idea of the omnipresence of God.
Are we back on this again? Study of the scriptures make it clear that Jesus did not resurrect himself. It is clear that God by definition cannot die. Jesus was the perfect man setting the example for humans as to what a sinless life involved, even though that level of perfection was and is unattainable by fallen humanity. He suffered prior to his death and that was made clear. There cannot be three Gods as claimed in the Trinity. Jesus took the form of a mortal man as a result was mortal as a man. Who was Jesus pleading to to make his agony prior to the execution less intense, he did not pray to himself?
Why would God in this magnificent sacrifice play a shell game with merely clones of himself? Was it not Jesus who said, 'why do you call me good?' "It is only the Father in heaven that is truly good". Who keeps going around trying to make Jesus and Jehovah one in the same while that just denigrates the true significance of 'the gift'?
Wonderful points Credence.
I just wanted to add to help to clarify this more clearly is this scripture when Moses was talking to the Heavenly Father.
Notice. Ex 33:20 But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.”
To add Joh 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.
Jesus is not a trinity part omnipresent.
Because Jesus is looked upon by thousands of people including disciples that walk with him daily. There is no way Jesus is the Father
because no man can see his face and live as written.
But Jesus face was looked at.
Jesus was son of Man. But, I do believe he was God in the flesh,also; which is not that difficult (for me) to see. As I stated previously, the whole idea of God is a difficult one and many people come to understand it in many different ways.There is no shell game involved here . Remember Jesus declared I AM. On several occasions. What do you think he meant by that? God would certainly be capable of seeding human flesh with some part of his essence. Each of us has some small part of his essence. Jesus, himself, appeared (at times) to doubt this essence. That was the flesh. But, even when in doubt he labored on in faith.
Why people insist that Father, Son and Holy Ghost has something to do with three gods is more difficult for me to understand than Jesus being God incarnate. Nor do I see how Jesus being part of God, while part of man, somehow denigrates the gift.
By the way. Look into what the word Jehovah really means.
The Sovereign of all existing things has a personal name revealed to his creations.
It was validated and given to Moses .
the tetregraminton of his name is YHWH.
But people even today disrespect the use of the sovereign's name. Jesus prayer as lords prayer starts off with hollowed be thy name. Meaning to treat his name with holiness and deep respect.
We also are very aware at this time that there is only one group of people worldwide that fit this scripture as living prophesy.
Ac 15:14 Symʹe·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.
Isa 43:10“You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none.
Even we are biblically supported and proud to carry our Heavenly Father's name.
We know what that name means and we are proud of it !
Not to forget this important information
That in Revelations there are people marked with his name and Jesus name in foreheads.
If you deny that mark of his name then you certainly can not be related.
As written in Re 14:1Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.
I think this is one of the things which irritates me most about Jehovah Witness teaching. The negative nature in which they insist on viewing others.
Do not take the Lord's name in vain. This is a commandment, yes? Out of respect for that many generations did not attempt to use his name. But now we have a sect who insists they are special because they use a name (which isn't correct, at best, and easily seen as an affront to a creator at worst). When he revealed himself to Moses he simply declared I AM. There is only one God. You can create artificial names if you so choose but there is only one God. Thus the capitalization. Who knows if the correct name we use is even a true name. No one. But any thinking person can easily see that the word Jehovah isn't it.
This sect uses the name but won't partake in the Lord's supper. Very strange, in my eyes.
Using scripture in an attempt to gain favor with God, to the detriment of one's fellow man, is one of the traps Jesus sought to release us from.
In your opinion you have come to such a bad one .
And you still have not provided one scripture to prove anything just your opinion.
And to show you know so little about us you state we do not celabrate the Lords supper.
Well world wide we will be doing just that based on the same calender Jesus did it in April. Did you get your invitation . We globally invite all humans to Jesus special remembrance of his death.
He said keep doing this in his behalf.
You certainly have judge the wrong people as a sect. We are global and are not known as you say.
Do you realize if you lived in Jesus time period .He would have or could possibly knock on your door.
Lu 10:1 After these things the Lord designated 70 others and sent them out by twos ahead of him into every city and place where he himself was to go.
So you would say to him or his workers you are a sect , you would be iirritated with Jesus .Because the message has not changed.
And Because you can not read Hebrew or Greek which the Heavenly Father reveals his name 7000 times as YHWH there is no way it is to be hidden.
That is a belief and doctrin men use to not glorify his name even after the last diciple died.
The meaning invain is simply means disrespect for it.
Which I think is being done in your comments . My last post to you.
I didn't say you don't celebrate. I said you don't partake. To pass the plates and refuse to partake is a denial of Christ. To me. To JW I assume it is a form of respect. I've been there. Because of my respect for Jesus, I won't go back.
And of course you won't continue to converse. Been there also. JW only seek to enlist clones. I've also been to your big gatherings in the summer. I've seen the recruitment exercises. JW are encouraged to attempt to convince others to take up their bizarre beliefs but an honest and open conversation which includes alternative views is counter productive to the mandate for more people funneling more money to the organization.
L to L, I know better than to attempt to debate the fine points of topics such as this. It has been the source of hand wringing by philosophers and cause of war since the beginning of time.
I can never prove it objectively, so there can be no basis for debate. I wasn't born yesterday andI have had time to study and evaluate with the result of my supporting Kiss and Tales' perspective view. But I won't fight anyone over the tenets of which his or her ideas are based. It is of no value, it is like everything else in the spiritual realm, you are either open to it or not.
There are atheists and on the other pole, people who believe that 75 vestial virgins await them in heaven as reward for matrydom, while on earth they beat women with sticks for showing a little ankle in public. Of course, there is everything inbetween. I choose the course best represented by Jehovah's witnesses, as from my perspective Christiandom or much of the so called mainstream denominations are fraught with interpretive error and practice. I can't claim to have all the answers, but for ME it is the answer. Yet, again I emphasize that this is just my opinion. I do my own thinking and I credit you for doing the same. So, the best I can offer, is 'to each his own'.
Well put. What makes sense to you makes sense to you. As long as you don't insert the word truth. That is, to me, egotistical and insulting to other beliefs.
Php 2:6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.
That form was a spirit form not flesh.
To answer you .according to scripture at Re 5:11And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,
The Heavenly Father created myriads of spirit Angels.
There is no way that omnipresent would apply.
Next there is still the word create and creatures.
Jesus was created as part and first born of Angelic sons.
We as humans even though in the flesh
Have seperate thought patterns as Jesus himself says he wants to do God's will not his.
Careful reseach not spoon thread by humans will give the real truth.
I was a baptist raised by family members in this religion.
It is tainted with untruth.
Now you are a Jehovah Witness. Interesting.
Never said I was .can you reason from the scriptures instead of name dropping. Again can you compare Hebrew and Greek original words that say Omnipresent is actually the case.
We can come to an accurate knowledge of truth through thorough study of God's word. Some people just settle for others teach them .Instead make it personal. Study some words and meaning in Hebrew and Greek.
I'm not name dropping. I'm simply going by what you posted in that reply. You are a Jehovah Witness. When you rewrite the Bible in order to support church doctrine it tends to make thinks confusing for you.
You never supplied omnipresent scripture word because its not in the bible
Nore is it in Hebrew and Greek.
I am asking you why you are fitting words in the bible that is not used in original Hebrew and Greek.
Its not about me being a Jehovah Witness .
Its about sticking to original meaning of those scrolls and meaning.
You are name dropping to distract from truth.
No, and if you perceive it as such I apologize. If God is the Alpha and Omega....the beginning and the end...he is omnipresent.
I realize that the whole idea of God, the cosmos, eternity, etc., etc. is difficult and we all attempt to come to an understanding. But, you claiming truth is over reaching, at best. If that is your truth then enjoy it. But, I have studied it and find it to be sorely lacking in any semblance of logic or truth.
So, it is not a universal truth. It is simply yours.
There are two very important words that never should be over looked.
Creation and Creator .
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
Jesus was his first Angelic creation of the Myriads of Angels.
Earthly name Jesus.
But notice what is written
Ro 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the Creator, who is praised forever. Amen.
We must make sure we recognize the differance as the scriptures says he was created as a first born son.
That does not make him equal being created. We as humans are also created and we are not equal to the creator our Heavenly Father.
God the Father and Sovereign is almighty . but you are mixing him up with his creation of his first born Angelic son known earthly as Jesus.
Jesus himself said the Father is greater then I. Everyone knows that equal and greater in math does not add up to the same equation.
Respectfully I will leave this as respect to your right to believe as you wish.
But still you have not provided proof of anything you have said.
I am convenced by scriptures not what people believe or just say. Basically because Jesus told us that many will claim to know him and he will deny them. That is why people must be sure their religion is not tainted with pagan traditions. Triad is Pagan , I have a hub that elaborates on the simlar mixed in practices of christain and pagan .
If tainted it is not recieve worship to the Heavenly Father.
It is my opinion that religion is all about attempting to be more acceptable to God than the next guy.
Every new sect which pops up condemns the others as pagan, or heretical, or anything which helps convince them they are closer to God than others. It's a selfish endeavor.
There is nothing scriptural about believing Jesus is a first born angelic son. I understand how you believe this. I've heard the pitch. I'm always confused as to why anyone believes it.
Respectfully you can believe what you wish. Again I leave you with out argument.
Here is a topic from the old days. These days, we do not discuss this stuff much. These days people are okay saying, "I don't know what to think. Nothing makes sense." Some people are still guessing. Some people think they know. Those are the ones who don't.
Unless they do.
Kathern I love how you express with the word some. But the truth is there are many opinions but one truth At Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
There are many avenues of faith .but here it simply states one.
The one Faith is here for us to decide by carefully studying the scriptures.
Research is unavoidable.
But people customize a faith to ones lifestyle instead of letting the true faith mold us into spiritual beings that is acceptable to the Heavenly Father without force.
We can encourage and upbuild in truth.
But we can not make spiritual decisions for others it is their right to chose.
"letting the true faith mold us into spiritual beings that is acceptable to the Heavenly Father without force. We can encourage and upbuild in truth."
Yes, we can encourage and uphold the truth. And never ever FORCE! But, the question is: how do we perceive/comprehend "the truth?"
THE TRUTH is easier guessed at ...
Guessing a situation does not genuinely give truth with so many guesses.
You do have to compare and research.
Thats like a Doctor did they guess their way to this position? No many would die of guessed diagnoses without proper study of symptoms and diseases. Again our spiritual life is just as vital to keep us living and breathing everyday. We are granted a day every time we open our eyes.
If you call a lie the truth often enough it begins to look like truth.
Very true did Adam and Eve with satan prove that point in the garden. Satan is the Father of the lie.
And Adam and Eve listen to his lie they would not die.
People today still listen they will not die if they worship the Heavenly Father according to their opinons and self lifestyles.
The problem is do we fit Jesus words
at Math 7:22 -23 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’
People that claim to know Jesus will die at armageddon based on lies and not following the Kings instructions .
We are to be very sure of what is involved in ones faith, belief , said lifestyle , if ignored there is a spiritual death.
My love for others is for that to not happen in sharing spiritual enlightenment.
To be more precise .How did this happen to so many people as recorded and will happen.
Jer 25:33“‘And those slain by Jehovah in that day will be from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth. They will not be mourned, nor will they be gathered up or buried. They will become like manure on the surface of the ground.’
It is not of human power this happens but the Father finally has spoken.
Way to take a prophecy from the past and pretend it is referring to future events.
Does Jesus still speak to us from the past Even in Revelations it says the same thing. Re 19:21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Notice that Jeremiah is a future prophesy that has not happened yet.
Because this is a global situation not isolated in one country or state , but a Heavenly judicial decision in spiritual matters .
You are focusing on scriptures but are you truly examining its meaning as to why its there.
I meant to add most people in Jeremiah 25:33 have some kind of faith or belief even if its not believing in God.
To preserve our lives will take special attention to ones claimed belief. Careful study of seperating doctrins of humans and opinions to what actually is required by our Heavenly Father and Jesus is how to preserve ourselfs in continued life.
We want not take this lightly but really pay attention.
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