I guess that would depend on whose concept of “christian” you were using in comparison.
We should look at this question from the prospective of a first century Christian.
The government designs a "universal" religion and establishes what the doctrine will be.
Would the disciples have joined it?
If you did not prescribe to this new RELIGION you were not allowed to have a Job or place in society.
The catholic church searched and found all documents that could be found concerning the teachings of Christ. These are locked up in a basement in Vatican City. WHY?
I believe that the first century Christians would say that the new Religion causes more harm than good.
Religion should not be standing between Man and God.
Jesus died on the cross so we could have direct access to God.
Because of religion we can not see HIM as well.
The book of Revelation says that this would happen and it did. (not futuristic)
The end time prophesy as written is scripture has most all been fulfilled.
I have to go to work shortly but felt I had to say what I thought.
qwark, hon, I'm trying to get sleepy and now I'm all confused - must be new hairspray
My apologies for interrupting
Please resume programming
Nah! Catholics just lean on the holy ghost story a bit more!
Catholicism is one of those who designed the concept of christianity.
The built on the design of judaism, a false religion.
The concept of "Christian" is based around Christ. Considering they worship Christ and ascribe to the Bible, no, they aren't the anti-thesis of Christianity.
To all of you who answered no, I ask you this; Was jesus, alledgedly an ascetic?
If a bishops full ritual outfit and "riggings" costs in the neighborhood of $40,000 American....and vatican city is valued in the billions of $'s...and is loaded with treasures which amaze the eye and mind, pls explain how this emulates the life and values of jesus.
That's a hub I find relevant to this. Catholics are the oldest Christians. As I said, they believe in and teach the Bible, and believe in Christ as the one true savior. These are the requisites for Christianity.
They are Christians. Do some of their material belongings seem in excess for a Christian? Maybe. But are they Christians? There's no question.
How is your hub in any way relevant?
Any fool can see that all you need to do to become a Christian is say the majik words and hey presto - you can be a condescending hypocrite with all the answers along with the best of them.
Sadly - how you behave has nothing to do with the label you apply and the Katholiks calling themselves Christians is the biggest joke of the last 2000 years.
Twenty seconds in the Vatican tells you exactly what you are dealing with - and it has nothing to do with what the bible says Mark says Fred says Albert says Jesus might have said maybe.
The Catholics certainly are not the oldest sect calling themselves Christians - they just murdered all the preceding sect's members. Which doesn't matter because it happened in the past and the ones who did that were not real christians.....
On your knees plebeian!
I place this sword blade on your shoulder and deem you to be a "sage-of-the-forum!"
You may stand and accept the applause!
The Qwark Spaketh and so it shall be! :-)
What planet do these people live on? It is certainly not the same one as I am on. You ever been to the Vatican?
Yep, sure have.
I was awe struck at the oppulence I viewed.
The "pharoahs" didn't live as good as those in the vatican.
It represents, to me, hypocrisy to the acme of the definition.
It is pretty stunning how much money they spend. If I was going to be persuaded there was an invisible super being in the sky - the ceiling of the Sistine chapel is as good as it gets.
Money, money, money.......
The "Rothchilds" were correct: (paraphrase) he who controls money...RULES!
I've forgotten how it goes, but didnt "Barnum" say sumthin' like this: ya can't fool all the people all the time, but ya can fool most of the people most of the time.?
That's the credo of ALL monotheism!
I beg to differ.
Catholics are not the oldest Christians.
The oldest Christians were the original followers of Christ, the Disciples.
Catholicism, although based on the belief in Christ, and remaining in that belief, is a religion, whereas Christianity in its pure form is not even a religion.
true, the actual 'christian' would have NO religion or religious connection, ritual what-so-ever. no 'bible' no 'church' none of it.
the closest to that would be gnostic.
and i bet most cannot guess how many gnostic were slaughtered by the 'new roman pagan religion' aka 'Catholicism'
I went to catholic school and was taught I was a christian. I was told to emulate the spirit of Jesus.As an adult I have visited several protestant churches. The first thing I learned was that the Catholics are evil and headed to hell, for believing in the importance of faith that results in works over faith alone. Every week the sermons included begging for money to build new buildings, add to the library, etc. I had never heard that in a mass.
The protestant churches also have enormous amounts of money and land. You have some pretty huge ones in the states like the Crystal Palace. In my town there are 3 churches that are all the exact same denomination. These 3 churches own Bible camps at lakes, a retreat centre by the river etc.If you put them together as they should be (if they weren’t so busy arguing amongst themselves) that would be a great deal of property and money.
The protestant churches are more modern and own more modern things like radio stations, television stations, recording studios, etc.
I honestly see little difference between the protestant and catholic churches when it comes to ownership. The Catholic church has simply been amassing materials longer than the protestant churches and has more members giving tithes. The materials are amassed by one “church" as opposed to hundreds of different denominations, making it appear to have much more.
In my honest opinion none of the churches emulate Jesus. There are some small groups that do, but we don’t really hear of them because they are poor and busy. The rest are political entities.
Christianity is non existant.
Those who claim to be christian are easily led wannabees.
Sorry to differ Qwark. I am a Christian, I do not attend any church due to a number of reasons. Because of this I am told by some people I am not a real Christian.
Well, I don't walk around sporting a cross and WWJD bracelet and go to church, but any time anyone gets in a conversation with me the topic somehow turns to Jesus, God, Bible, whatever is on their mind, seems to come out.
They are not afraid to voice their opinion as I am not a rep of any religion, I will not brand them as a heretic for voicing their opinion. When we are done they seem happier and ask me why I didn't become a preacher.
if that makes me an easily led wannabee then, oh well, I must not have got the meaning of the word correctly.
PT Barnum: ( I paraphrase again) Ya can't fool all the people all the time but ya can fool most of em most of the time.
Those whom you mention constitute the group: "... ya can fool most of em most of the time."
I spent 2 1/2 yrs in seminary..prepping for the "pulpit."
I'm pretty good at recognizing the "...most of 'em..." folks.
There was a time when I believed in god/s, trolls, witches,santa claus, the tooth fairy and dragons.
It took alota time, experience and education to finally reach the age of "reason." ...but I did! hallelujahhhh and amen...lol :-)
No I think there are christians. Like I said we just don’t hear about them and it depends on what your concept of what a christian is.They are feeding the poor, helping the kids on the streets, handing out sandwiches to the underaged prostitutes on the corner, etc. I think they are people who see deeper into other humans than most and see the possibility, which to me is what Jesus did. I don’t think real christians worry about being christian they just have that something that makes them love others. And I think it is found in certain people of any religion, and in people with no religion.
I believe, if I look way up at the top of the thread, that we were speaking of concepts. There are different concepts held about me and probably even about you. It depends on the stories one chooses to believe. It has nothing to do with knowing.
Where did I say I “KNOW” anything? I don’t know what Jesus did anymore than you do. The people who knew are long dead and even then the stories were probably sketchy at best. But the concepts.....
Are you waiting for me to say “ I know because I read it in the Bible” I’m a writer. If there is something I KNOW it is that anyone can write anything they want. I could begin writing my very own book of legends and myths today. In 2000 years someone could chance upon it and believe it and convince their friends to follow. Would that make me the writer of a holy book? If their concept is that the book is sacred, then I guess so.
I think we see this all the time today even. Gardnerian Wiccans for example. Angel worship. Law of Attraction. It depends on how you conceive what you’ve seen, experienced or read.
There’s a proverb and I can’t remember from what tradition “He who writes the stories, rules the world.”
So I stick to what I said. It depends on what your concept of a Christian is.
Jean, I do not know the scripture but perhaps you do. It is in the new testement I think. My brother told me years ago and I read it. The only true church found faultless in the eys of God is that one that caters to widows and orphans. Further study into what a widow is reveals that a woman is also a widow if her husband ceases to do his duty as a husband and a father, not just if he dies. So if that is the case, as the Catholic church and many others are taking care of these, including Judaism, would that not mean belonging to those and helping with those charities sort of makes one a Christian?
I respect your honesty.
There is nothing in the new testament that is credible.
Jesus never spoke or wrote a word of it.
It consists of stories that were told about him thru man many generations before those terribly corrupted stories were printed and promulgated about 300 yrs after his alledged crucifixion.
There is NO ONE who knows anything at all about this jesus...NO ONE!
I say there are no christians because no one knows anything about him.
The God of Abraham does exist ... In the book of Daniel whom Jesus quoted as a true prophet ... the Anti Christ is described. He was the 14 Emperor of the Fourth kingdom upon the earth (the Roman Empire). According to Gabriel..The ten horns represent ten kings and then the little horn comes after the ten replacing three.
Hadrian was the Little horn that Religion says is coming at some time in the future. Wrong.
Hadrian was the Emperor that replaced three after the first ten. He scattered the Hebrew Nation around the world but none were to be found in their promised land.
The Times of the Gentiles began when those that were sacrificing unto the Lord were expelled out of the promised land.
Religion was the beast that John describes coming up out of the sea in Rev. 13. The 42 months that this beast was given to Blaspheme is about to be accomplished.
The message that was given in scripture and the true God of Abraham lies someplace between Atheism and Religion.
Religion and Atheism can argue all day long and this fact does not change.
The Church is a good place to be introduced to God.
Go to Church and be introduced and then carrie on a relationship with him. BUT
A relationship with a Church is a poor substitute for a relationship with God.
Any Church that says any diffrently is feeding unbelief.
There is NO ONE who knows anything at all about this jesus...NO ONE!
I say there are no christians because no one knows anything about him.
There are historical records that Jesus was crucified. There are records that a new sect of religious belief did come into being at that time. And I do believe that there is truth in the New Testament.
Unfortunately this truth has been twisted by interpretation beyond recognition for the average person to see.
A Greek literal interlinear is a good antidote to relgious doctrine.
I think the best antidote is to read the scripture unhindered by previously learned interpretations.
You are goina say that I am wrong and I probably am.
I think that you overdosed on interpretations and are still recovering.
Just cause a company has some really bad representatives going out with their product, ripping off their clients does not mean that the product if faulty.
The "product" has been irreversibly corrupted by time and interpretation.
There is not one word of the "product" that is credible in portraying this jesus person to be the "fantastic" entity you imagine him to be.
All it takes to realize this is to study the evolution of christianity from Rome forward.
There were no printing presses in those days and the masses, in the main, were illiterate.
Stories were passed from one generation to another for almost 300 yrs after this jesus was alledgedly crucified.
Time and the imagination of the story tellers created corruption of the "tales" so that by the time the "product" was published and promulgated, all you had to read was heresay that equalled the best of fairytales
The product (GOD) has never been corrupted, the representives? and their methods? heck yea.
Hi Brenda.... That is exactly correct. first century Christians were not a member of any kind of Religion.
The true Christians...
am really tired .. goina lay back down .. nap before bed time. might check back in later.
Qwark... Ya just don't know what ya don't know... ya know ?
Catholicism is nothing more than Roman indoctrination of Greek 'gods' with this 'new religion' called 'christian' (as noted by the pagans in Antioch, the Greek hub) from coming about. A pagan cult with Caesar-like influence.
the Priests of Baal reassigned.
At it again, wow. All aboard religion haters your bus is leaving.
sneak, i personally have no thing against religion.
i do think she and her hubby -science- should get it on once and for all. too much 'sexual tension' between them.
after the 'organism-orgasm' maybe they'll just go to sleep and let the rest of the world rest in peace.
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