A Believer is Happier than a Skeptic...

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   Rishy Richposted 13 years ago

   The fact that A believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.    — George Bernard Shaw

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      crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      There have actually been psychological studies that have, on a general scale, proved that believers rate their lives higher than those who are not religious.
      
      My psychologist once told me "I wish that I could believe in the God illusion."

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         Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Me too... I always felt that 'the more u knw, the more u hate' ...may b this is one reason why skeptics tend to be less happy

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            Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Another old saying, "Ignorance is bliss."

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            paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Hi friend Rishy Rich
            
            They Skeptics even know less of life; which has many faculites they don't believe in. They are ver unfortunate people.
            
            Thanks
            
            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Pondering the definitions of "happiness" might help shed light.
      
      A Believer has much comfort and Godly joy,  which isn't always the same as "happiness" as defined by the world.....

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         Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I liked the previous definition more

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         Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I agree that "believers" don't understand much about the World.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            On the contrary, we know so much that we prefer the otherworld..

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               Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You do realize there'll be gay men there right?  ..and Democrats?

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                  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  "I don't think so Tim".
                  
                  And there will be no sex in Heaven anyway.   Spirits aren't flesh and blood.  And sex in general, while it may parallel "happiness", doesn't always equal to Godly joy.
                  
                  And that discussion would be safer on another thread.
                  
                  And nice to see you missed me, Ron! 

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                     Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     You were gone?

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                        Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Indeed.

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                           Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           When?

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            Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            dat was straight-cut

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            crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I'd just say they understand it differently.

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               Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Exactly...just like kids do

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                  crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Since we are incapable of knowing the answers to our metaphysical questions, any one of us could be wrong, and any one of us could be right.  Science is no more sure than religion of anything.
                  
                  Happiness and stability depends on illusion, we all live in one.  No relationship would be successful if people saw their partners for exactly who they are.
                  
                  I'm one of those people that would choose to live in the matrix over choosing to live in the illusion.  Truth is more important to me than happiness, but sometimes I agree with my psychologist, I wish I too could believe in the illusion - but I'm just not wired that way.

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                     Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     yeah...Its not their fault & Its not our fault either. We r designed to be like dis. Blame the programmer!

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                        crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        That is exactly the paradox that bothers me about religion.  If God creates everybody the way they are, than it is God who is responsible for my disbelief, and not myself as this is how He wired me to understand the world.  This is also why "free will" is an illusion religiously speaking.  There is no other decision we could choose to make, but the one we did, because everything that has led up to that moment has programmed us to make it.
                        
                        And it is these contradictions and paradoxes in religion that make it evident they centre around man, and not God.  If it was God inspired, logic could not penetrate it as it does on a continual basis.

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            paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Hi friend Ron Montgomery
            
            In my opinion it is equally good for the Skeptics or Atheist; they also don't know much about the world in general terms.
            
            Thanks
            
            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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      Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Which believer, and which skeptic? That's the real question.

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      ...ignorance is bliss?   :-)

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   wyanjenposted 13 years ago

   Completely ridiculous.
   No offense.
   
   Shaw's quote is right on.
   I'm happy, spiritual, and content as are most atheists I know.
   

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      Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I'm with wyanjen on this one!

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      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friend wyanjen
      
      The Skeptics Atheist don't believe in the moral and spiritual. They are in an illusion that the Creator- God Allah YHWH does not exist.
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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         Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Very unfortunate, immoral people. Tsk tsk.

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         Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I deeply respect your lies as they are god given to you, are protected under freedom of religion and condoned by Islam.

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         wyanjenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         hmm.
         You trying to call me out as a liar? 'Cuz I can't think of any other reason that you would say I don't believe what I just said I believe.
         
         Thanks
         I am a peaceful atheist waiting for you to get your head out of the sand.
         
         By "sand", I mean "ancient fictional book".

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   crmhaskeposted 13 years ago

   Essentially what I have gathered from the studies I've read, and the conversations I've had with believers and non-believers is that there is one thing that non-believers will never have that makes all of the difference.  A sense of purpose, a reason we're here, and comfort that there is a reason when things don't go our way.  When things get really, really bad, a believer just has to think there is a divine purpose they do not understand, and that is enough reassurance that things will work out for the better.
   
   Essentially, a believer has a purpose, a non-believer does not.  It doesn't have to be God, but spiritual people have a sense of fulfilment that non-spiritual people don't.  And even if it doesn't feel like it does, every study has shown that makes a huge difference.

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      Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Well then wouldn't it be more accurate to say that people with a known purpose in their life are happier than people without?
      
      I think society is at a transition point, kind of lost in limbo right now. For many religion has failed. It's sad that they haven't found a purpose in life and the ability to embrace life and the universe for what it is, but then, we don't have any leaders talking about that.
      
      I agree that religion serves a need for people able to believe in that, but as we learn to put away these things, we might find it useful to replace them with a worldview and system more real and honest that serves the same good functions, and hopefully others, and hopefully more adequately and universally.

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   thisisoliposted 13 years ago

   Most studies show those who don't follow a religion are happier than those without, they also show religious people fear death much more than those who are not religious!

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      crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This is entirely false.

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         thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Not at all, there have been hundreds of scientific studies all which show the same thing, Google is your friend if you want to know more.

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            crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Believe what you want, it's irrelevant to me.  But the internet is not an accurate source.

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               thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               No but scientific research is more reliable than blatantly unsupported statements.

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                  crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yours are no more unsupported than mine, neither of us have provided proof.  Psychology is my field.  I trust my research, not yours.

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                  crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  "It only maintains that religious people are happier than others if all other factors are held constant."
                  
                  "Under a set of assumptions, the hypotheses derived are that personal and societal economic capital, national pride and national integration, religiosity, and societal religious integration, all positively affect the life satisfaction of the individual"
                  
                  - W. Jagodzinski in his article Economic, Social, and Cultural Determinants of Life Satisfaction: Are there Differences Between Asia and Europe? 
                  
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                  "Children’s spirituality, but not their religious practices (e.g., attending church, praying, and meditating), was strongly linked to their happiness. Children who were more spiritual were happier. Spirituality accounted for between 3 and 26% of the unique variance in children’s happiness depending on the measures. Temperament was also a predictor of happiness, but spirituality remained a significant predictor of happiness even after removing the variance associated with temperament. The personal (i.e., meaning and value in one’s own life) and communal (quality and depth of inter-personal relationships) domains of spirituality were particularly good predictors of children’s happiness. These results parallel studies of adult happiness and suggest strategies to enhance happiness in children."
                  
                  - Mark D. Holder & Ben Coleman & Judi M. Wallace in Spirituality, Religiousness, and Happiness in Children Aged 8–12 Years
                  
                  ----
                  
                  "After all, there's an obvious social and political benefit in adhering to the beliefs of the majority. And there are also indications that both psychological and physical health are stronger among the faithful."
                  
                  - Roy Speckhardt in Finding Faith in Humankind
                  
                  -----
                  
                  And that is to only name a few.  I have access to all of these papers through the University of Waterloo library, and would be happy to e-mail any of the full articles to you in PDF format if you choose.

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                     Dan Smithposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Awesome.  Way to to put the smack down.

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                     Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Please do. pandoras_box359@yahoo.com
                     
                     I'd really appreciate it, very interesting.
                     
                     It's not the religious belief itself that makes them happier, it's the by-products, some of which may be worthy of replicating some other way.

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                        crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I've just sent it to you

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   crmhaske  said   
     That is exactly the paradox that bothers me about religion.  If God creates everybody the way they are, than it is God who is responsible for my disbelief, and not myself as this is how He wired me to understand the world.  This is also why "free will" is an illusion religiously speaking.  There is no other decision we could choose to make, but the one we did, because everything that has led up to that moment has programmed us to make it.
   
   And it is these contradictions and paradoxes in religion that make it evident they centre around man, and not God.  If it was God inspired, logic could not penetrate it as it does on a continual basis.
   ==========================================================================================================
      I know that it is written in scripture that way, only expressed a little diffrently.
     Talking about NOT being prideful over anything at all; even faith  for "HE" gives this alse ... to whom ever he chooses.
       I cain't see him judging anyone harshly for not having something that he didn't give to them?

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      crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It's an optimistic point of view, but that is still essentially one of my "beefs" with theistic religions regardless of in how many ways it can be explained a way.  It doesn't remove the paradox or the contradictions.

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I try to keep in mind that Ezre reassembled what we know as the Old Testament in the 5th century BC. I don't know how much of the older writtings that he was working with. How much of it was pretty much intact and how much was not.
            I think it was Artaxerius (Sp.?) that instructed him to reestablish the origional religious beliefs to the Hebrews in Jerusalem. Who knows how many "Helpers" he had doing the actual writting and how accurate they coppied those things that was written?
         
             And; most people knows what I think about those writtings that the church chose to accept into the cannon. I believe that some parts of some writtings that were not accepted as a whole did have small parts written into other writtings that were accepted. (In the name of compromise)
            This being said... I don't feel that we should dismiss the "God" concept entirely for this reason.
            Kinda like this....Just because you were misquoted does not prove that you did not speak that day. Can I believe that mankind messed up the writtings?  You   Bet Cha

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   sneakorocksolidposted 13 years ago

   The barn doors are open again and out come the skeptics!

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      Obscure Divineposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The stables are open, and here comes the dark horses...

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   Obscure Divineposted 13 years ago

   Being happy has nothing to do with fairy tales, only unless it takes a fairy tale to make you happy...

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   rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

   a believer in what? everyone believes something.
   
   now are we going to argue who is happier?
   these threads are a hoot!

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      Obscure Divineposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly!  Woot-woot!

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   Originposted 13 years ago

   I think some believers are happier than skeptics, while some skeptics are happier than believers. Skeptics don't really have to worry about "going to hell" or "eternal damnation" because they don't believe in it. While believers do believe in those things (depending on religion).
   
   I think it's almost along the same lines as one of those people that believes they are the most popular person in school, yet in reality they have no friends. It doesn't matter though, they keep smiling anyways.

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      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friend Origin
      
      I agree with you that it is a relative term;some believers are happier than skeptics, while some skeptics may be happier than the believers.
      
      As far as heaven and hell is concerned; it is a reality and the Creator -God Allah YHWH would judge everyone whether a believer or a non-believer. If the Skeptics don't believe in it; it does not mean that they won't face the reality.
      
      It is good if they believe in it and improve themselves accordingly; no compulsion however.
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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         Originposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         A skeptical would probably insert a "if" statement in the second part of..
         
         "If the Skeptics don't believe in it; it does not mean that they won't face the reality."
         
         So it would be something like..
         
         "If the Skeptics don't believe in it; it does not mean that they won't face the reality, if it's actually true"
         
         I'm not saying I'm skeptical or not, just saying.

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            paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Hi friend Origin
            
            I understand
            
            Thanks

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         Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Improve ourselves accordingly?
         
         I really am appreciative of the fact that you aren't standing right in front of me. No compulsion however.

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