Stance On Civil Suits

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   aoiffe379posted 13 years ago

   There are Christian who do not believe in civil suits, that is taking a brother or sister to court. However, what would be your stance if a fellow 'Christian' was contracted in January 2009 to do a job and it is still incomplete? He has received two payments but obviously has not done any work. The person who was overseeing the job failed to do his job as well.The person who got the contract is a liar- a smooth talker who makes promises he does not keep. A relative said he never finishes a job.
   
   The only way,I have been told , to get some action is through the court. This person plays the guitar in church but a relative said he has never made a profession of faith in Jesus.About a month ago he was scheduled to be ordained as a deacon but it was postponed.
   
   For those who do not believe in taking a brother or sister in Christ to court, how would you resolve this situation?

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   Sab Ohposted 13 years ago

   I find that they are always a bit too tight in the crotch

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      aoiffe379posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Are you being satirical,ironic or dumb...?The latter is showing too much.

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         Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Whatever suits you

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   SirDentposted 13 years ago

   The Bible says not to take a brother or sister to court. Why take a brother before the law concerning matters between God, your brother and you?
   
   1Co 6:4  If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
   1Co 6:5  I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
   1Co 6:6  But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
   1Co 6:7  Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
   

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      aoiffe379posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      How many times have you allowed yourself to be defrauded so that you can adhere to this text? Are you happy,thrilled delighted when someone defrauds you? Do you defraud others?  I am going down for the third time.One person got money and disappeared. Recently he preached a sermon called "Somebody Dropped The Ball" and I was hoping he would pick up the one with my money and return the money since he had not completed the work.But he smiled as if nothing had happened.
      
      Another one could not show her receipts because it would have revealed her discounts. She wanted more money before she completed the job. The third individual looks you in the eye and lies through his teeth. He is full of promises but keeps none.
      
      A sibling wants nothing to do with God and church people because of such a text which seems to uphold wrong instead of justice.In this text one is to be the victim and allow the criminal to go free! Is that truly the will of God who has death as the penalty for sin or wrongdoing?

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         SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It makes no difference how I feel about it. It is according to the Word of God that one should handle the problem. The choice is yours to make.
         
         It seems you wanted some to tell you to go ahead instead of searching for the right answer.
         
         Yes, I have been defrauded before. I have never set foot in a courtroom against anyone in my life. If God cannot handle such small things, then He is not God at all.

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            aoiffe379posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The problem here is not needing the approval of others. i am in a predicament where I have lost money and the work was not done.. The person has been elusive - making promisesThe house cannot be sold in its present state and i am receiving no income from it. Worst of all, I am in danger of losing the house for which i am paying  the bank every month.The will my father left  [he was part owner] stipulates that the house and property must be maintained; otherwise,i lose the house. Although the Word of God tells me what to do, it does not tell the contractor his responsibility - the right thing for him to do. The message i am getting is that after giving the contractor 18 months to complete a job that should have taken 3-6 months, God does not want me to prosecute someone who has defrauded me. I am to be the victim and suffer in silence. God had 18 months to handle this matter. My brother does not bother with the Bible or church. I understand why. Maybe I need to dropout of church too and wait for God to handle this matter since I am not to take it to court.I would not be sharing this matter in a forum if he had handled this small thing.

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               SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Take him before the Church. That is God's way. After that then do whatever is necessary.

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   TMMasonposted 13 years ago

   Take him to court, or cut your losses and learn the lesson not to trust him.
   
   Your not going to get anything if you don't sue him. He knows it, and you do to.... deep down inside.
   
   I would take it to the church council, maybe.
   
   He can be removed from the guitar in the church. Everyone plays guitar, it won't be to hard to replace him.

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      aoiffe379posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I do plan court action but I am waiting for documentation[contract, receipts for payment] from the individual who was left to manage my affairs. He is a lawyer and I expected him to monitor the work. However, he never wanted me to have the job done. He was the one who made up the contract for me to sign and said that this person was better than the previous one as he had his own company and experience in the field.
      
      This guitarist lives and attends church in another locale, but he returns to his home area to see family. I have told a pastor; and I will share the information with another pastor who knows the pastor at the church this person attends.

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   Wayne Orvisburgposted 13 years ago

   Have you threatened him with fire and brimstone yet? Better yet, have you just asked him what is taking so long? I'd sue him if that's what needed to be done.

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      aoiffe379posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I spoke with the individual on April 11,2010 when we attended the ordination service for a pastor. At the time, he said that he had some urgent business to complete and I should give him eleven days. After that time, he said he would provide receipts and photos to show how he used the money and the work he has completed. When I mentioned his name I was told the parents ate sour grapes and set the children teeth on edge. His father was a pastor, I was told; and I got a rundown on him.

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   SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years ago

   well sounds like the person has a different belief system and is not very christian.  just because he attends a sermon and plays guitar doesn't tell me he has the same beliefs.  so take him to court because you wouldn't be suing a brother or sister of christ would you?  maybe talk to him and let him know his options.  he's taking advantage of the payor.

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      aoiffe379posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You are right. This experience has been difficult for a sibling who now see Christians as wolves in sheep clothing. He also questions how God a Righteous Judge can sit back and allow such activities. In two weeks it will be 18 months since he signed the contract and promised to complete the job efficiently. My sibling is interested in dealing with those who are unbelievers or do not subscribe to Christian teachings.

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   Originposted 13 years ago

   I'm not really religious, but...
   
   If a person signs a contract to complete a project, and fails to do so even though he/she can complete it, but instead chooses not to for whatever reason, then they are breaking the contract. Since a sum of money has been paid to the person for the work, and the work is not complete, I would view that as theft. Then.. comes the whole "thou shalt not steal" right? I look at it like this, you order a product and it's supposed to be shipped to your house, but it never is even sent. You still paid the money already, but never received the product. I would call that stealing, wouldn't you?

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      aoiffe379posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yes it is stealing. But some people thinks in terms of amount. Anything less than $50M or $100M is chicken feed.Worst of all is that some individuals get by with it so often, it seems as if it is a part of the game of life. I know someone who actually told me she did not have a need. She simply wanted to cheat the person out of something. Cheating people is what she has been doing and teaching to her children.

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   Daniel Carterposted 13 years ago

   For any believer, the Bible is very clear about contracts and those who break them.
   Obedience to commandments is a contract. When you break those, the penalties are pretty clear.
   He broke his contract. He pays penalties for doing so. If you DON'T take him to court, you enable him to defraud more people, so at this point, you also have a civic responsibility to bring him to justice to prevent him from doing the same to others. Otherwise you become a silent accomplice to his actions, knowing he will do the same to others.

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      aoiffe379posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for the insight. He has defrauded others for when I mentioned his name, I got a history of his activities. A police officer with whom I spoke- asking questions about my options- said that he would be delighted to personally serve him the summons. Another person said he cannot help me unless I take civil action. Nobody seemed confident that I would receive a refund of my money or the work would be completed. In fact, many individuals feel that he will get jail time. But jail time does nothing for the loss and anguish of the deception and fraud.Jail does not necessarily reform individuals- just make them worse with a desire to seek revenge.Considering all his preys past and present, i doubt if he cares for anyone but himself.

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      h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      I agree. Believers are not only subject to the spiritual laws, but are still subject to laws of the land. Allowing him to continue his crimes will help no one. Being accountable for his actions should help him come to a place of true repentence.

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         Michael Willisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You are so right here. The Bible teaches that Christians are subject to the Law of the Land as well as the Law of the Biblical teachings. And just because someone claims to be a Christian and be in business or for any other action does not mean they are exempt from the law!!! If so, then all criminals would use this excuse and no one would ever pay for crimes.
         And as mentioned earlier...that person should be held accountable to their Church as well!

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   Csjun89posted 13 years ago

   You should take it to court
   
   After all, if that fraudster commits a crime, he is taken to court, not to the church

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      aoiffe379posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks. That is true.

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    Healthy Living Isposted 13 years ago

    Go to court and win!

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