I thought about that question and was stuck. I wanted to know how god came into being, I couldnt find an answer I am still puzzled and this is eating away my faith it is so absurd
I look at the question in a couple of different ways.
Who/what is the God human kind has created in their religions, philosophies, belief systems, in individual psychologies, etc.?
And who/what is God in essence?
But, for me there is a place where these two have merged. That merging came through many years of study and contemplation, meditation, ritual practice, etc.
Good question and very fundamental. Maybe like walking thru a dangerous place in the dark, one wants to rely on extra-senses, wants help from higher source, needs a guide to prevent a wrong move, and can maybe feel something as a help. Course there are many other reasons to need a god, like meaning for living.
Different people with different beliefs and having different Gods,there are so many Gods,which God you are concerned.To my belief im not allowed to think this way,and He doesnot have his creator.
"God" in the sense of an occultic supra natural spiritual force of any kind that is unfalsifiable (be it the mystical knowledge of buddhism or the Christian Jesus who is omni/potent/niscient/present/benevolent) is in my opinion a sort of collective socially based psychological construct that operates on the subconscious/conscious and unconscious levels. Obviously there is a big difference between the mystical knowledge found in buddhism and say Allah but the various "god" or "God" or "gods" conceptions in my opinion have more to do with one's attitudes to the actualities of life and little to do with truly probing the actualities themselves to discover the underlying mechanism at work so as to fix or improve the situation at hand in a manner that is replicable in the physical world with tools (like science does). In the short term any form of spirituality that is currently known is capable of doing good things (short term meaning a few years to a few hundred years), but in the long term is bound to fail if it is based on mystical knowledge that can only be accessed by either A. A certain understanding and many paths or B. A certain path with many understandings, or even C. A certain way to achieve an understanding on many paths.
That is why science and naturlistic worldviews are so good for humanity imo because when this life is all that you are guaranteed, you take things like prison or the death of a human in any context much more seriously because as far as you know that person no longer exists.
If somehow the christian god or any of the other ones did exist at the end of my rope not only would I say like Bertrand Russell "But you did not provide any evidence" I would also say "What a pleasant suprise I am glad to see you".
I just do not see the point in even taking god conceptions or occultic force (spiritual mystical or otherwise) conceptions that cannot be held accountable (ultimately) by free inquiry seriously, and it is not because I spite those conceptions, it because those conceptions are ultimately unverifiable in the here and now and thus leave people open to manipulation of various sorts.
God created it'self. of course if I ever get the chance to ask God myself, you know I would ask: God, who created you? LOL.
I would say worry less about creation and evolution and believe whatever makes the most sense in a senseless world.
I like it Sandy
Did you notice you just completed 500th forum posts?
Everyone has the right to their own beliefs and we should respect those beliefs. Personally I believe that God created everything and has always been. This is my belief and I just take it as that. I respect what others believe and I do not discuss it much. I am introverted and I do not get into arguments others seem to thrive on. Once someone tried to spar with me and I just walked away. I just did not see the point.
You're right Sandra, it's not something we should worry about. God is and we must believe that. I hope to be there when you ask Him who created Him. (smile).
Your mind is in a box, but that is ok as you have the right to stay in wonderland (up to a point).
Alls I can tell you that is personally one's feelings and understandings are much deeper and comprehensive and more rooted if you let go of that which you were taught from infancy to believe and never really sat down and seriously asked yourself "What if I am wrong?". I experienced that myself and I will never regret it.
Have you ever done that? Or has it been one of those things were you just automatically prayed "Lord help me not to doubt and strengthen me in the faith"? Or "Lord this doubt is a way of testing me and I accept it"?
Or was it one of those things that only popped up in moments of intense pain or a moment of trauma but you just held onto it anyway and prided yourself on the fact that you held the faith despite experience that seemed to indicate otherwise?
Have you seriously ever tested your own faith? Have you stopped going to church for 6 months, listened to what the atheists and agnostics had to say with a skeptical heart and mind coming from the perspective of a woman who knows she is right because of god's grace and whose God will see her through it?
I suspect just stopping the psychological reinforcement of reading your bible/church will break it all up. If humans are repeating things over and over again within certain guidelines from an early age they form habits to the point where they do not even think about them or if they do think about them then they do so but only within guidelines.
In my opinion the fullness of humanity is to be found in the ability to reflect, and mind numbing meditation exercises, disempowers people to reflect on what life means and to really find the joy in just sometimes not having an answer but wanting it and being content with improving the existing understanding of things but still not knowing in a manner that is comprehensively final and not open to basic alteration?
I mean you have an answer Lisa, you know why the universe IS and why it always will be.
Your God not only is the answer, he has the answers and always will have them...
I on the other hand have no concrete answers and scientific understandings are elementary at this point in human history. It is like a giant question with no easily formulated answer and only rudimentary understandings at the current time..........
You say god is and we must believe that, but I wonder if you really do understand what an ever present NOW of eternal hellfire in which the soul who does not accept God's grace must theologically sit (by neccesity of God's Divine Justice), for all eternity.
(This is coming from the christian perspective)
Eternity is not a long time, eternity is an ever present now of a destructive abscence that is constituted by the loss of the soul of god's presence.
Again, perhaps I do wish people would give more thought to these things but I just like discussing them, it is in my nature to ask why and fortunately I am suspicious of people who would stop me from seeking answers by saying theirs is the only one that I must choose from.
Yes it must be sweet, and nice, and kind, but what if I don't? What if I refuse?
What will your God say to me? Or does it not really matter what He would say to me?
Think about the implications of what you believe not just what you believe is at applies to you or your fellow believers (if you are a christian).
That is why I like to talk about these things.
Because in the end it encourages people to express what they believe and actually think about it, not just relish in the stupor of the feeling itself.
Maybe she thinks your mind is in a box, which seems to be the case because the possiblility of a God existing scares the bloody piss outta ya?
Maybe it takes a little more in the heart and mind to figure that the possibility of a God is still a possibility.
Science can't answer the question.
Of course your meditative mind phase of absolute nothingness and intangable knowledge must be right because you have grasped the concept that you want to call enlightenment, but never understood the Buddha's moral pricipal, to think right, act right, with right intentions etc.
You know the drill...
Did LisaG do something to you to piss you off? Did someone else do something to piss you off? Am I doing something to piss you off right now?
Hmmmm, wonder why this happens? Seems to me that people need help when it comes to love and peace because we aren't getting it much anywhere else. All the knowledge you think you thought you knew, is just a bunch of crap too.
Being an enlightened being brings you closer to spirit, you don't sound like you have become enlightened yet.
Zarm doesn't appear to be the scared one here. And this is one of the mainstays of the church.
In fact, when some one tells me I should be afraid. Or in your case suggests that I am afraid because of the possibility of the existence of a god, I wonder where they are coming from. What on earth should I be afraid of? Should I be scared of your God? Why?
I am not afraid to say that I have come to the conclusion that there is no god. No creator. It just is. Once you can accept this, life becomes much easier and much more self-explanatory.
I can also accept that the scientific approach is not yet fully formulated. In my opinion, this is because the scientists seem to be starting from a false premise. They too are starting from the premise that there was a beginning and are attempting to find theories that fit that self same starting point that the theists start from.
I am not sure I can claim to be enlightened, but I am not even sure what that means. It seems to have as many meanings as the word "god."
May i just offer this :
Even if we knew the answer , would any human being be able , or have the capacity , to comprehend it ?
Well, if God is a man-made concept, we should all have to capacity to understand it.
It's called "thinking".
Whether one chooses to exercise that capacity, of course, is another matter ....
I personally would like to think that if god was a rational being or "god" provided a rational answer then we would be taught by that god(s). If we cannot be rationally taught by the god(s) in question then what pray tell is the point in trying to learn? The human mind if it learn's something (even a primarily emotional lesson) must use it's own rational faculty to hold what is going on accountable, otherwise the human will be driven to illness and reduced functional capacity (even if the dissociation of mind and emotions is ecstatic).
If a beautiful women who I was dating and was falling madly in love with asked me to do something that if done would unduly risk my life, yes I may love her, but if I did not allow my reason to hold my emotions accountable disaster might occur.
I would be right to ask such a person to explain herself and if the explanation was not compensatory to the situation I would be right to decide not to do that which she was requesting.
Zarm, my mind is not in a box. Everybody has a right to ask questions. But the question of God existing and who created Him will always be an asking one. I see what is happening in the world, I know what is going on.
I have stopped attending church a long time ago, because church has not really taught me anything. Everything I feel or understand about God is what I have experienced. And until you experience it too, it would be difficult for you to understand.
For me personally, I will not subject myself to the torture of trying to figure out who created God. I know one day I will find out, as Sandra said, we will ask Him when we see Him.
If you want to know if he is real, talk to Him and I really mean to open up your mind to receive Him, you might be surprised.
Yes I know what you are reffering to psychologically and unfortunately little children will talk to imaginary friends without ever being told one exists. I am not interested in a "being" with whom I have to "open my mind to" that cannot speak to me an intrusive manner just like someone who calls my name when I am hanging out with my friends because they want to tell me how much they understand life's difficulties or express affection towards me. If there was a God it would be an internally intrusive conversation with a being that respected boundaries when and if I wanted to talk.
It is hard for me to even find the idea of such a being sitting and waiting for me to acknowledge it's prescence (much less expecting) when there are none of the usual signs that one finds in the social sphere present.
I do understand how comforting and truly peaceful it can be to talk to an imaginary friend and how through meditation and the cultivation of cirtue how truly ecstatic this psychological phenomenon can truly be and fulfilling.
It is my opinion that the imaginary friends that constitute deities are man's inventions and idol's that amount to worship of a psychological absess that is the source of untold unfulfilled expectations. They are a coping mechanism because if I worship god I got he/she wherever I go even if I am alone, even if I am helpless that god is truly there if I belive in him.
It is such an all encompassing delusion that most people cannot see that it amounts to humans worshipping themselves/other humans/a social group of humans.
It truly is a very fulfilling and emotionally (as well as intellactually) satisfying experience and there is little chance you will take this post as anything other than an insult but that is not what I mean it to be.
I am not angry, or mad, I am sad however. I just wonder what the world would be like if people decidedly got out of the wonderland of imaginary beings and faced reality squarely.
We have been taught to believe in something beyond the grave from such an early age (most of us), but if the human organism does not come to a conscious realization that it is truly mortal (and by that I mean truly final), then part of our time is spent running on the treadmill of self fulfilling prophecy. As long as this prophecy is not dogmatic and neccesary for other people then it won't lead to cognitive dissonance and imposed cruelty on people who do not believe. However, I still think it genuinely hurts people to make something that is fantasy that has no imagineable way of being disproven their reality. Such a thing is beyond disproof and in my experience when you are imagining something that cannot be disproven you are truly in a mental box.
I think we all created God,for as soon as we thought,there is something out there greater than us,we created him.
God is timesless, to create something requires time.
God has no beginning and no end,the superentity encompassing this entire universe.
Beyond everything and in everything.
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