Final Question | Who created God?

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GoldenBirdposted 12 years ago
If a God exists- then who created that God? How can the Creator be created? Do you have any reason? -this is one of the final questions you will ever face. You can bring Immanuel Kant to the discussion, I will not mind :-)
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  kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why would you ask that question?
  
  If perchance you have gotten a plausible answer, to what level will you take it?
  Would you become a preacher, teacher .... what ever?
  
  Point I am making is that you decide what you want to be in this world...
  
  So you create the present you.
  
  Therefore it should be easy for you to accept that God is a self creation.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How can something create itself; especially, something like God? How can something come out of nothing; especially, something like God?
  
  How can you say that we are not Gods ourselves, who came from the skies one day to spread civilization in this world?
  
  Then too, funny maybe, who created us?
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You cannot apply human thinking to this question. God is far beyond what we are capable of thinking and comprehending. One only restricts themselves with this kind of logic / thinking.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yet, the believer WILL go far beyond what they are capable of thinking and comprehending to tell us all about what God thinks and does.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No one knows what God thinks or does. One can only say what they believe.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And yet, believers will tell us all about what God thinks and does while the rest of us know they are only saying what they believe.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I can only talk for myself. Your generalizations mean nothing to me. Why don't you try to talk to me about what I say and not about what others say. It's just like if I were to say atheists think like this or that.
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  teamelite21posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's funny how people try to disprove there is a God by saying that it is impossible because nothing can come from nothing.....i mean, if that's true then how could there have been a big bang??? How could something have came from nothing. As impossible as it is for us to imagine, there had to be a beginning. SOMETHING had to always exist right? Right?
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  valdar9posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As I go back into my philosophy studies, I remember that philosophy coupled with theology describes God as the "uncaused Cause", the ontological Being. Oxford American Dictionary defines the ontological argument as stating that God being defined as most great or perfect, must exist, since a God who exists is greater than a God who does not. God could not create Himself, because to do this, He would have to "be" and NOT be at the same time. This is impossible!
  
  You are right- God has always been, and He did not come from anything, or nothing. If we could really explain Him, then He could not be God. The Bible tells us that " In the beginning, God created..." He was therefore BEFORE the beginning.
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  yolanda yvetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  God did not create Himself, nor did anyone or any thing. He has always been. One of His names, in Isaiah 9:6, is 'The Everlasting Father'. Webster's gives a definition to the word 'everlasting' as 'eternal (without beginning or end)'. God has no beginning or end.
  
  Therefore, He did not come out of nothing: He is, always has been and always will be.
  
  I am no god, neither are you, neither is any one else. We came from God, the only Creator of all mankind.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Amen, Yolanda.
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  yolanda yvetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, Feenix!
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, yolanda, even the sceptic which is me, likes you answer.
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  Joshua 24-15posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Haha I find some interesting comments. First, to us to a point where we might be able to grasp the concept of God we must understand that we can not fully understand or comprehend God, nor can we figure Him out. No One can. Once we understand this we can move on to the real questions and forgo the excuses not to allow Him to change us into what we are meant to be-righteous and victorious!
  God is from everlasting, He is eternal, the uncreated One. He created all things for His good pleasure. This is why "science" can't prove Him, because they cannot recreat Him-He wasn't created! He is the Creator!
  And Yes, some people will-actually most people will argue a point just to win and not really know what they are talking about. Thus, some who are called by His name are no less guilty of doing the same thing.
  The FACT still remains, that His knowledge is far greater then ours and we cannot understand Him, thought He fully understands us.
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  JBBlackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ack! Let me pick up my copy of a prolegema to any future metaphysics or whatever it is called, stay up for twenty hours so I am capable of understanding philosophy and I'll be back.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God always was, always is and always will be God, with no beginning and no end.
  Why would a "GOD" need to be created why not just be?
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  videogamevikingposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There are some things beyond our own understanding, and this is one of them. However, the Bible does address humans, and in it declares that God is, was, and always will be. Therefore, we are aware that as long as we exist, God will also exist, and that He was in existence before us, and will continue to be in existence after us; outside of this, no one knows, until the day comes that we are able to ask God.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Translation: "I have absolutely no understanding of science so I turn to the Bible for answers."
  
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I understand "science" just fine, and by the way, "science" follows LAWS. Laws cannot exist without intelligent design and organization... i just CANNOT stress this point enough. I still don't understand why you want to blind yourself so badly sir.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you cannot stress the point enough, however understanding science or producing any evidence to support your stress is entirely another matter.
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  aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  For something or someone to be a created being implies a beginning.
  They were not (existant), then they were created, and then they were (existant).
  
  God IS!
  
  He is without beginning, nor end.
  
  Many god-images have been made, which mankind made. To ask who made them, you'd have to specify which one, to get an answer.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Simply stated, God is infinite and infinity is far beyond anything that human beings can comprehend.
  
  Thus, posing such a question as "who created God?" is the same as asking, Where does The Universe begin and where does it end?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That isn't simply stated, that is merely a simple statement.
  
  (n)+1
  
  (n) = any number
  
  Notice how easy it is to comprehend infinity?
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What is it with you and the little laughing face?
  
  That is very juvenile; therefore, I must assume that you are still in high school or else you have not gotten around to growing up.
  
  Furthermore, like everyone else who has inhabited this planet, you don't have a clue of what infinity is. The only reason why you think you know the answer is you do not realize that you do not know anything.
  
  In other words, only fools believe that they know more than others do and/or that they know all the answers.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What's up? Are you at a loss for words?
  
  Furthermore, why do you threaten others by implying you will report them to the "admins?" In addition to being a know-it-all, are you also a snitch?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, I was just laughing at your post, you said it quite succinctly and I thought to bold it.
  
  When folks like yourself insult others personally, they are supposed to be reported. Didn't you know that?
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey look, you insulted one of the other contributors to this forum by sarcastically asking, "Are you finished with high school yet?"
  
  What we have here is a pot and kettle situation.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good point. Did you know that poster was doing nothing more than lying?
  
  But, you're right, I should probably give more respect to those who lie.
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  TJenkins602posted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  TJenkins602posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just dropped in to say
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  By definition, the universe is all that encompasses our reality, hence it does not have an end in which something else has a beginning. That something else would therefore be part of our universe.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Like a snake. Where does the head end and the tail begin? Things that no rationally thinking mind has answers to. As much as I dilike you, you have made a very fine point my friend.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Way back in the day when I smoked a whole lot of happy grass on a daily basis, I frequently pondered such questions as, where does a snake's head end and the tail begin?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  An education, in light of smoking a whole lot of happy grass might have helped your pondering in that regard.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can't be serious. Are you actually saying you don't know?
  
  That's odd, I don't dislike you or anyone else here. Perhaps, you need to revisit your martial arts philosophies for guidance in that regard.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The only thing you accomplished with that response is the wasting of quite a few keystrokes.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So, you disagree with my statement but are unable to respond with an intelligent rebuttal, so you said that instead. Well done, sir!
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The truth is, I am not nearly as intelligent as you are.
  
  I'm just a semi-literate home boy who is in way over his head when it comes to being a contributor to HubPages.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I bow to your honesty.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Troubled Man, because I am a "down home boy" who was a South-Central L.A. Low Rider way back in the day, I am always straight up.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And, I will most certainly acknowledge that just as I would acknowledge when someone is not straight up. Fair is fair.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  10-4. Copy that.
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  mmo-gamesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is a question with no answer. Believing in God is something you do without asking question. I asked myself this question once too and decided it was a waste of time thinking about it.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You make a big generalization about why someone believes in God. Believe me it is definitely not what you think.
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  parrsterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  'Who created God' is a question that presupposes everything requires being created.
  However, common sense would seem to indicate that something has to be eternal; either the material universe (matter), or something exterior to this universe.
  Evidence [e.g.: the second Law of Thermodynamics] indicates that the matter of our universe (or what we know of it) cannot be eternal and, therefore, something exterior to our universe must be.
  Common Sense and observable evidence would further indicate that whatever is the external cause of our universe is intelligent; the scale and complexity of the cosmos clearly indicates this. Those that would support the universe is the result of an eternal, purely accidental, non-living, non-thinking thing, are choosing to do so in the face of all reason, and demonstrate a “blind faith” every bit as strong as that which they condemn in those believing in a creator God.
  From the dawn of creation man has correctly reasoned to their being a creator, based upon the very evidence of the creation itself. There are those that would murky the waters of that reasoning with unprovable theories and overconfidence in man discovering proof that God does not exist. However, the logic that leads to their being a Creator is solid and unshakable.
  The real challenge we face is finding God. He obviously doesn't intend for us to see him with our physical eyes; other than through the evidence of what he has made.
  What other ways are there to see God?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  None of that is common sense but are instead faith-based conclusions based on indoctrinated beliefs and ignorance.
  
  And yet, the evidence of our universe does not show any creators, nada, zilch, nothing.
  
  Really? Seems more evident there are those who believe in God that are unscrupulous and dishonest when they make false claims about science and the world around us.
  
  No, the irrational beliefs held by the unscrupulous and dishonest are solid and unshakable in light of reality and facts.
  
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  yolanda yvetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If God could be created, then who would create Him, and someone would have to create the one that created Him and so on and so forth into eternity.
  
  If God could be created, it would be impossible for Him to be God. What would seperate Him from all of us and all the things that are in the earth, created. He's the Creator, not part of creation. NO ONE created Him. Furthermore, who would want to serve a God that could be created.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, that's the old "turtles all the way down" argument. It doesn't hold water, either.
  
  That isn't an argument, it's just faith-based circular reasoning.
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  lizzieBooposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A god cannot be made that's why in monotheism we talk about God as being 'begotton not made'.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, hello, lizzieBoo. I am glad our paths finally crossed.
  
  And your comment is right on, as we say here in the colonies.
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  yolanda yvetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Neither is God 'begotten'. Someone who is begotten has a beginning. God has no beginning and no end.
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  logic,commonsenseposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Everything had to begin in some fashion.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mmmmmm, not really.
  
  And besides, because God is NOT a thing, He is NOT a part of "everything."
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And, you know that how?
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Check it out. That is not a quote of what I wrote.
  
  I wrote, BECAUSE God is NOT a thing, He is NOT a part of "everything."
  
  And the reason why I know is The Holy Bible told me so. I learned all about that way back in the day in Sunday School.
  
  And Sunday School is a real cool and hip thing, my friend. It helps to build character and strong senses of decency and humility.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Then, you should be able to provide the relevant Bible quotes that say God is NOT a thing and is NOT a part of "everything".
  
  No, it is but a form of child abuse because it does nothing but accomplish the brainwashing of children.
  
  If you really wanted to build character and strong senses of decency and humility, join a team sport, instead.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  For your information, friend, I was a star athlete in high school where I lettered in three sports -- baseball, football and track & field.
  
  Additionally, I was in the U.S. Army for five years, served as a front-line infantry soldier in the Vietnam War, and advanced to the rank of captain.
  
  Is that enough character-building experiences forya?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The great thing about the internet is one can say anything they want about themselves.
  
  I would submit the character building was indeed from Sunday school.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If it pleases you to say that I am lying about my background, then go right ahead and knock yourself out.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Whether you were lying or not makes no difference as to where your character was actually built. I think it was Sunday school, though.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I really do like clever sarcasm.
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  lizzieBooposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Troubled man, have you ever looked around yourself and thought "hey I'm in a tiny minority here - maybe it's me that can't see things for what they are" ?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  That's classic. The reason anyone sees things for what they really are is because they do look around. That's the point entirely.
  
  If your head is stuck in a Bible, you aren't looking around at all.
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  lizzieBooposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Giving children rules and ideas as they grow up isn't child abuse. Putting children up chimneys, beating them with a cane, depriving them of food on a regular basis etc. are all forms of child abuse. Teaching children about peace and love and accountability are not on a par with child slavery.
  So your local Pastor told you to be good or you'd burn in Hell? Boo hoo! How fragile are you? Most of the western world has had the same upbringing for the past 300years. It's called being a child. Then you grow up and make sense of the world for yourself. If you're still angry about what adults told you as a child, you need to get a grip. Feenix has stared death in the face, for heaven's sake, and you're talking about words.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Creator God is an attributive being; all physical and spiritual things are His creation; He had no beginning and no ending; beginnings and endings or time are His creation.
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  crumblingcookieposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  HE IS..THE I AM..He has always been, no beginning, no end...It's easy to believe, at least for me, that there IS a more powerful than me, you, or anyone, or anything...All I have to do is look around me, see, hear, smell, touch..experience it ALL..EVERYWHERE, around us, to know GOD exist...HE is not CREATED, but just simply EXSIST...HE chose you, and me, to live and to live for HIS purpose and that was to LOVE and to SHARE that LOVE..THROUGH AND BY HIM...HE IS..(LOVE)..HE IS (HOPE)..HE IS (ALL WE NEED)..HE IS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>!!!!!
  What a joy...to just belive that He REALLY IS and HAS ALWAYS BEEN...
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Can I bring Aldous Huxlesy too?
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  Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ancient mankind greated god(s).
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Emile Rposted 12 years ago
That's akin to asking a first grader to write a detailed explanation of string theory. We have no knowledge that God exists. We don't know exactly what God's essence would be if he does. We haven't gotten a firm handle on how the universe came into being. We don't know but a minutiae about the reality we exist in. How, in the world could anyone answer that question?
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Some people, in the history of humanity, seemingly answered that very question, or simply avoided that in fear of losing ground. Perhaps they were not modest enough to accept their inability.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think we are all bright enough to see their inability, whether they accept it, or not.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! You mean a detailed explanation of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.
  
  I noticed believers are providing non-answers to the OP such as "It is not for you to know how or why" and other such gobbledegook.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And I notice any response that doesn't mirror your own is food for fodder to you. What we don't know won't hurt us, but some of us like to ponder it anyway. I love the fact that we live in a world where some can haughtily assume that the lion's share of humanity since the beginning of the existence of man has been completely delusional, some can haughtily assume they are special while the rest of us will rot in hellfire; and then some of us can assume everyone sees things in their own unique manner, and that manner is grand.
  
  Life is wonderful. Don't you think?
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Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago
Rephrase: If Energy exists, how was it created. Understanding the nature of energy answers the question, just as understanding God answers the question. Both answers are the same.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No one knows how energy was created first. Who created Time? Did a God create that?
  
  If there is a God who made those things; then, of course, who created that God?
  
  And if God was created by someone else, then who created that someone else?
  
  It will never stop, unless we bring something 'self-created' into play. Or a totally different philosophy.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Infinity is beyond our comprehension. And time exists because we occupy space. Einstein proved that.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  (n)+1
  
  Let (n) be any number. Easy to understand, isn't it?
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Easy to understand on paper.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just as easy to understand in the mind, too.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So how come when someone states that God has always been, people often say something must have created Him?
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  aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't mess with his head.
  
  It could damage his opinions.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Shall I begin reporting your insults so you may achieve yet another time out? Is that what you want?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Probably because those who claim that "God always has been" show an incredible lack of understanding of the world around them and other people are pointing out the flaw in their ignorance.
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  lizzieBooposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  why?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why are they ignorant?
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
Quantum Physics says that there are 10 planes of existance.

My question is which plane came first?

The laws of physics which pertain to us are true only in the plane which we exist with-in.

To deny the existance of things which we are unfamilar; would be kinda like living in a house with no windows or doors, and denying the existance of the out-of-doors. ... no sky or birds, no grass or trees, or moon or stars.

Thank God for doors and windows.
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pisean282311posted 12 years ago
good question...Who created god is something science doesnot answer and answer of religion is too outdated one and 500 years down the line , majority would discard the answer...

by the way god too is concept ...
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  yolanda yvetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  To say God is a concept is to say that you, me and all of creation is a concept since we were made by Him.
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Claire Evansposted 12 years ago
God is comprised of energy and energy cannot be destroyed or created, so therefore God was always around.
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  pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If viewed from that point of view , you are correct but that energy need not have intelligence , cant judge and there can't be hell/heaven...such are concept of thought ...only human species view things in that fashion and religion is understandable from that point of view...ancestors trying to make sense of world as per their understanding and they did reasonably good job , only problem with us at this point of time is instead of taking things forward , trying to keep things frozen ....
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Have you ever seen this energy-God? What if I say God is Time? Who has seen this time-God?
  
  -even then, who created energy and time?
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  pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @goldenbird good question and because of this question comes concept of god...it would stay till we have answer...god wont go away as long as such questions dont get answers...grip of religion has loosened only since last 500 yrs and it would still stay till we get answers ....who knows those answers would give rise to another religion like it has always done in past.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  At pisean282311, I do believe in a personal God. @GoldenBird, no one has seen God. People have seen the son of God, but not God Himself, that is if you are arguing from a Christian point of view.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you saying that God is 'him'? Are you sure God is masculine in gender?
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've never thought of Him as masculine because Jesus spoke of the Father. However, God does not exactly have a woman's body so I don't know.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Never thought of him feminine, to correct myself.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We have the Hindu goddess 'Kali'. She surely beats God in many respects of anti-neutralism.
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  TJenkins602posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Who created energy?!
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  yolanda yvetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How can God be comprised of something He created? He doesn't need energy to exist. He made energy.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's the thing, yolanda. Energy cannot be created.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What an amazing world this is. Each-and-every day, I learn something new.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've learnt something, too. Personal growth comes when one allows themselves to learn but acknowledging that there are things to learn. It's sad that some people think they know everything throughout their life. That is how people become narrowed minded and arrogant.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  All I know is that I do not really know anything.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And stupid.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But, what Claire said is not true, once again.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, my man, thank you very much for clearing that up for me.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Lol
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I was actually having you in mind when I wrote my last comment. You are arrogant and narrow-minded and I have proven it. You DO think you know everything but it is not so. Please get some humility in your life.
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  yolanda yvetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow!!
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Bravo, Claire! Bravo!
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, all praise Claire for her proof.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your copy/paste in the last post was not complete as it only deals with the conservation of energy and NOT entropy.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, energy can be created.
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  By God of course!
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another. The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. In essence, energy can be converted from one form into another."
  
  You see, you don't know everything. So think very carefully before you ask someone if they have finished high school.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Energy can be created by burning fossil fuels, for example. And, if you take the remnants of what's left after burning the fossil fuel, that cannot be converted back to mass due to entropy.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Fire is needed to burn fossil fuels right? Well, fire is thermal energy and light energy. So the energy from the fire produces the energy of the combustion of the fossil fuel. The point is that thermal and light energy from the fire has been transferred into energy released from the burning of fossil fuel which needed energy to be in existence in the first place.
  
  During the combustion reaction, the hydrocarbon molecules are converted to carbon dioxide and water. Carbon dioxide absorbs energy and water molecules move in liquid water and contains energy.
  
  As for entropy the term is a measure of the degree to which energy has lost the capacity to perform useful work.
  
  Entropy is a thermodynamic property that can be used to determine the energy not available for work in a thermodynamic process, such as in energy conversion devices, engines, or machines. Such devices can only be driven by convertible energy, and have a theoretical maximum efficiency when converting energy to work. During this work, entropy accumulates in the system, which then dissipates in the form of waste heat.
  
  And waste heat has energy, which can them be used to generate electricity which, of course, is energy.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nope, just an ignition from a spark will do, like a spark plug, for example.
  
  Thanks for the copy/paste. I'm sure you understood it all.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And I suppose a spark doesn't have any energy? Electricity doesn't have any energy?
  
  The only thing that I copied and pasted was the definition of entropy paragraph and this sentence:
  
  "During the combustion reaction, the hydrocarbon molecules are converted to carbon dioxide and water."
  
  So you failed. The energy generated by the spark plug burns the fossil fuels which produces energy. I don't know if you understand that it is a transfer of energy and not creating it.
  
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So, there was enough energy in the spark to that "transferred" it's energy to burn the fossil fuel? Hilarious. You really should just stick to the Bible.
  
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  F! My comment was deleted. NOOOOOOO!!
  
  Cut and paste I'm afraid:
  
  What you should get out of this is that energy is not created out of nothing. It is transformed from one form into another
  
  Transforming energy is when the energy changes into another form. In physics, the term energy describes the capacity to produce changes within a system, without regard to limitations in transformation imposed by entropy. Changes in total energy of systems can only be accomplished by adding or subtracting energy from them, as energy is a quantity which is conserved, according to the first law of thermodynamics
  
  Energy may be used in natural processes or machines, or else to provide some service to society (such as heat, light, or motion). For example, an internal combustion engine, ignited by a spark, converts the potential chemical energy in gasoline and oxygen into heat, which is then transformed into the propulsive energy (kinetic energy that moves a vehicle)
  
  Spark plugs transmit electrical energy that turns fuel into working energy. A sufficient amount of voltage must be supplied by the ignition system to cause the spark to jump the across the spark plug gap, thus creating what is called Electrical Performance.
  
  Additionally, the temperature of the spark plug's firing end must be kept low enough to prevent pre-ignition, but high enough to prevent fouling.This is called Thermal Performance and is determined by the heat range of the spark plug.
  
  So obviously for a spark plug to work it needs electricity which is energy, of course.
  
  See the process of coal plants:
  
  Coal is crushed to a fine dust and blown into a furnace lined with water filled tubes. There, it is ignited by long rods that are effectively huge spark plugs. With the coal burning, heat is generated and the water filled tubes start to produce steam in a header tank above the boiler.
  
  The steam then exits the turbine and goes to a condenser where it is cooled to a water state, it is chemically balanced so it will not eat the tubes in the furnace, then re-cycled.
  
  As for the power generation, this is done with an alternator linked to the turbine which is fed through circuit breakers to the switch yard. In the yard transformers increase the voltage from the 3,300v or more generated to 110,000 and more volts for distribution.
  
  From the information I have posted, what do you think insinuates that energy is created from something that doesn't have energy in the first place?
  
  This is fragmented, sorry, but my comment was deleted.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry to interrupt, but I have some doubts.
  Heat is the vibration of molecules, that is motion. When you say "increase the temperature" actually it is the increased motion. Light is another form of motion.
  When gasoline is burned, the molecules of gasoline combine with oxygen creating a different set of molecules, which moves faster than the previous ones. The motion is transferred to the piston, which through different wheels, is sent to the tyres which makes the car moves. So what effectively occurs is the motion of the molecules is transferred to the car. So where is the energy? In your picture I saw gasoline, the molecules, the piston, wheels, tyres, car but no energy. Where is it or what is it?
  
  What is this energy? When it is created/transferred, how does it look like?
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Gasoline and molecules have energy and the gasoline is what caused the motion energy in the first place. A car changes chemical energy from fuel into thermal energy and mechanical energy.
  
  There is no time that no energy is involved as it is defined as the ability to do work.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry again,
  As far as I'm aware every molecule/atom in this universe is in motion with relation to each other. And we can transfer that motion from one to another through physical contact which increases the motion of one while decreasing the other. So, as I said the motion of gasoline(The molecules where in motion before it was ignited and the new molecules have more speed after, as the molecules change('bonds' broken) is transferred to the car. (Thermal energy is the increased motion, when you put a thermometer the motion is transferred to the mercury which increase in volume which is charted and is read as temperature, the more temperature means more motion.)
  Work is the distance traveled by an object and hence energy will be the amount of motion transferred. So when you say ability to do work it only means the motion that can be imparted to another object.
  So there is nothing called energy, but only motion of objects,[I have the ability to do work, but I'm me(human) not energy] so it is absurd to say energy exists, "abilities" do not exist, 'ability' is what we have.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jomine, as you said, energy is generally a concept of being a condition or state of a thing. Except for maybe light energy. I think we only see the result of the energy like electricity and I suppose that is what people think energy is. Most people, including myself, think of energy as a thing rather than a condition or state of thing. I suppose that is why energy cannot be destroyed or created. I learnt something from you. However, I was right about my original claim that energy cannot be created or destroyed.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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JBBlackposted 12 years ago
I'm with the conservation of god, the same thing as conservation of mass and energy. I think the only being capable of creating god is god right? Unless it is a fictional character, abstracted from all the gods and goddesses ever imagined. Then the answer is all of us. Everything exists! As a reality or a fiction or a thought or impulse. Or: This reality is a construct of my soul to teach itself lessons; god, jumpropes and all of you are manifestations of my consciousness.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *The comment was changed*
  
  -Is this the way religion works?
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  JBBlackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I was attempting to draw on Transcendentalism, which may draw from Vendanta philosphy. Your response to me feels like a compliment, ty.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry I changed my comment! -I thought people would not understand. You seem to be, on the contrary, familiar with Vedanta. Impressive. Sorry about the change, I do that sometimes, just as religion does.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The "way that religion works" has absolutely nothing to do with God. Absolutely nothing.
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  lizzieBooposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Quite right!
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Debby Bruckposted 12 years ago
Dear GoldenBird ~ G-d can do anything. Whatever you feel is possible or impossible can be accomplished. It is not for you to know how or why, just to know (a little). Love, Debby
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps we should start to call G-d as 'the Unknown'. That will fit with our knowledge. Thanks Debby, your words heal.
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  goldentoadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Or you can just call me Goldentoad.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You better start to take medication. You don't need God or civilization; you need something else. It's a forum, and we are unable to deliver that here.
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/post/1924532
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  goldentoadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Silly bird, you come here under false pretenses. I'm on to you but you are nothing but a regurgitation of a million other threads. I don't need to write another hub for this place, I did more than you ever probably ever could or ever will. So fly, fly away, with whatever you are trying to prove to the world. You bring no enlightenment or original thought. You don't submit any interesting questions to challenge a world view, you are a pretender. I don't need to read you, to know you. Protect your little nest here if you want. If you need your ego stroked, people to respond to your silly questions, this is the right place for it. Small bird in big sky, that's your new American-Indian name.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You proved your nasty character. Stay away from civilization, and go where you belong, barbarism.
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  Debby Bruckposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dear GoldenBird ~ G-d is unknown. True. Emet. We do not know and cannot know all. We are provided grace of just enough. The universe was created and it was "good." Blessings, Debby
  
  Dear GoldenToad - I assume unrelated to GB. I also have insomnia. Now time for some sleep. Blessings, Debby
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  goldentoadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, unrelated to me, as all those others claiming to be golden, are made of fool's gold.
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  TJenkins602posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God as the unknown works for me.
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Cara.Rposted 12 years ago
I'm just going to answer the question.
Who created God? and how can something that created everything not come from something else.
Kind of like a chicken and the egg kind of thing. If I go by my religious up bringing I would say, He (God) was always there. Not much of an explanation.
Being older now, I think it is possible that something can, just be. I think our minds are too underdeveloped to comprehend the magnitude of such a question. When I took Astronomy, the professor warned us that when we got to the last chapter, he said, "There will be many questions, you may have, that have no answer." Interesting.
We know more about the universe then earth's oceans. Science seems to always come up during topics like this, but how can it not? We are talking about how things were created.
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Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago
Yeah! If ENERGY can do it, why can't God? Hmmmm...there I go again!
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A.S.K.Preacherposted 12 years ago
God is. He is outside of time. The answer to your question is all around us. It is not just in the Bible. It is common to man - not to recognize what is right in front of his face. Intelligence in creation is all around us.
Philosophy is the forerunner of physics. These types of questions were asked by those philosophers. Some proved to themselves by mathmatics that there had to be an initial movement to start the whole process. He spoke and the world was.
We cannot comprehend that something always was except in finite terms. This is why faith is a part of believing. For without faith it is impossible to please God. Because those who come to Him must believe He exsits and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Hebrews
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What does that mean? How is something "outside of time?"
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  TJenkins602posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe it's late :p
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  A.S.K.Preacherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Time is relative. There is a time difference when astronauts go into space. God is the ultimate time traveler. He IS and WAS and IS TO COME. When He comes to take us He has said that TIME will be NO MORE. A day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day. This is all Biblical. The only way to begin to understand is to search the Bible.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In other words, the explanation for "outside of time" is based on religious gobbledegook.
  
  Gee, thanks for that.
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  A.S.K.Preacherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry? Did you not see the piece about the astronauts? You only see what you want to see, don't you? How can you point the finger at Christians; accusing them of being blind and you cannot even read an entire paragraph and gain an understanding of that?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I see what reality puts in front of me. It isn't my choice at all.
  
  What astronauts? Could you be more vague?
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  A.S.K.Preacherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can look up the theory of relativity in any encyclopedia and read a simplified explanation. Again, time is realtive. The further away you get from gravity the less time matters. Gravity is in the equation of time. God was only effected by His creation once; when He subjected Himself to it. God can move in and out of time as He pleases.
  In your case reality is what you can experience with your senses. How do you think outside the box? The reality is all around you. There is evidence of inelligent design all around, yet you would deny it. Aeordynamically the bumblebee should not be able to fly; but it does. The amazing ability of cuddle fish to change their coloration. The list could go on forever.
  If life really came from an evolutionary line then why do we not have fish men; people with wings; and so on.
  Science and the Bible do not clash. Scientists of the day were killed for saying the earth was round. Ignorance comes with too much controlled education and loss of simple common sense. Are you a casualty?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, but I read the theory instead.
  
  That makes no sense.
  
  No, it isn't, because there is no such thing as an equation of time.
  
  Faith based gobbledegook.
  
  I don't normally climb into boxes to think.
  
  No, you simply imagine it.
  
  So what? They are the result of evolution.
  
  Those characteristics never evolved. Just because you can imagine a combination of species doesn't mean they have to exist.
  
  Yes, they do clash for those that know something about science.
  
  That was the result of religious beliefs, the same beliefs you follow today. But of course, reality trumped those beliefs and now you know the world is round as opposed to what was believed before.
  
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  A.S.K.Preacherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes it is. Just because there is no standard equation does not mean there cannot be a theory. Gravity is a part of the equation. Faith is not even in the subject here, because you cannot comprehend it.
  You do not climb into boxes to think - because you are so used to the box you are in that you cannot think outside of it, nor do you try.
  Belief in evolution is faith based. There is no solid proof of it. Everything you claim can be proved by science - can be shown to have already exsited in the Bible.
  There are scientists, real scientists, that would disagree with you about science and the Bible clashing. That is a closed-minded, knee-jerk response given by those who CHOOSE to ignore anything outside THEIR box.
  Your responses are non-sensical, narrow-minded, and obtuse.
  The roundness of the world was not a result of the beliefs I follow today. Again you are showing your ignorance. It was a result of a religious body that attempts to keep everyone under their control. That is one reason why we have so many different denominations today, to escape that domineering, non-Christian attitude.
  You find these same kinds of people in secular society as well. Atheists, goverment officials, etc. this kind of attitude is not unique to religion, nor to any one person.
  You have no idea what you are talking about. It is impossible to have a meaningful thought exchange with you.
  What you spout off every time you write IS gobbledegook.
  I hope you accept the truth before it is too late.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So, you'll just make one up out of thin air.
  
  So, reality is now a box?
  
  Agreed. Understanding of evolution is not.
  
  There are mountains of evidence and evolution is a fact.
  
  That is false and you know it.
  
  Perhaps, they are "real scientists" but that claim is certainly false.
  
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awareposted 12 years ago
im going to lay this to rest . for better or worse you have no farther to look. its me. i created this god. blame me . it was a first draft . what can i say. but if you want to help. lets build a better one.
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  TJenkins602posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Obviously you have never read the Legend of Chuck Norris.
  
  It says and I quote n the 8th day, Chuck Norris created God.
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Kyle Payneposted 12 years ago
God was never created, and we cannot understand this because God's being is transcendent to man's mind.
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MickeySrposted 12 years ago
The only answer to the question of original origins that makes any sense, is God. Something cannot come out of nothing, the notion of a godless big bang that produced anything is ludicrous . . . how and why would the very first amino acid or hydrogen molecule, or whatever, suddenly and spontaneously 'pop' into existing, out of absolute nothingness? It demonstrably cannot be - yet determined that something besides God must be the case, intelligent people concoct elaborate schemes and equations to convince themselves of this very simple absurdity - material reality came from nothing.

Yet, if we acknowledge there must be some creator-being capable of creating material reality, we instantly ask (as you are) 'so who created Him'? This appears a most reasonable question because things happen in a linear order, one thing leads to another, etc . . . so if there is a God who made everything, who first made Him (and then who made the one who made Him, and on and on). But the solution here is that 'linear order' idea - that, is time; one moment being overtaken by the next which precedes the moment just arriving now and ahead of the moment to follow, etc. But, time itself was created by God.

The Bible presents God as an infinite, eternal being . . . but, because our own experience is limited to time, when we think of eternity we think of time that goes on and on forever - but the Bible presents eternity as outside of time, eternity does not have one moment being overtaken by the next which precedes the moment just arriving now and ahead of the moment to follow, etc . . . eternity is an ever-present now, an ongoing instant, a perpetual moment, etc. There is time and there is eternity, two separate realities, we can't think of eternity as a really, really long time - it is the absence of time.

So, before (so to speak) God made the material reality of the universe, He first (so to speak) made time to put it all in. The material creation, as God designed it, requires time to exist in, things change (reproduce, grow, etc) and that requires a linear reality of one moment preceding the one we're in as another is coming now to take it's place, etc. So, if God made time to put His material creation into, that means until (so to speak) He created time there was no time . . . no moment prior to another or followed by the next. God existed in eternity, an ever-present now . . . no one created God because the was no 'before' or first - God is the infinite, eternal Spirit and the only uncreated thing. And, that (it seems to me) is the only idea that makes any sense . . . but you do have to kind of roll it over a few times in your mind.
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  goldentoadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dude, you wasted a lot of words on a forum thread that no one takes serious except for a handful of wanna-be intellectuals. Write a hub about it...foolio.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Incredibly narrow view devoid of all other alternatives and possibilities. Laughable.
  
  But, isn't that what God did, created something out of nothing?
  
  Your post shows little in the form of knowledge of the big bang, hence your original premise is based entirely on ignorance.
  
  The rest is all gobbledegook.
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Wayne K. WIlkinsposted 12 years ago
Massive explosions in space created everything. Scientists have proof of this. Humans are nothing more than complex proteins. Again, they have discovered the proteins that make humans which will susbequently eventually lead to laboratory human creation. This is all common sense. Religion will erventually be completely disregarded simply because it's pointless these days. Work of fiction. Why cling on to a work of fiction when the REAL evidence is there through science?
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Massive explosions in space created everything."
  
  -What initiated that massive explosion? What existed before that massive explosion? What is the age of this space? What is the age of Time? When did it come into being? How?
  
  You and me- are we just the coincidences of space? Can we recreate life from scratch?
  
  Religion is not for kids. It has deeper origins.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It wasn't an explosion, it was an expansion. Huge difference. An explosion would have all the matter contained within moving away from the center of the explosion at very similar velocities.
  
  The Big Bang, on the other hand, does not a center and all matter is moving away from each other a various velocities, which is not observed in an explosion.
  
  Those are good questions, and if it wasn't for religions having such a negative affect on societies and thinking, we might already those answers. Given more time, we probably will get them.
  
  But, it doesn't offer any answers that are credible or based in reality.
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  MickeySrposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ATM > . . . would have all the matter contained within moving . . . <
  
  All what matter? You're not at all providing anything close to a reasonable answer, you're simply starting at a point after the point of the question, you're merely side-stepping the question and then mocking the sound and legitimate answer of a spiritual reality beyond our material time-based universe . . . the idea of God does not advance your silly notion of magic or anti-science, it suggests a reality (a viable fact-based reality) existing under different conditions than are measurable or observable from our material reality station.
  
  You're responses to the concept of an eternal spiritual reality are like a fellow who says "No way there can be life on any other planets - earth is the only one with enough oxygen" . . . as if the only manner of life-form possible is carbon based oxygen processors. I can understand you're view that there is no call to believe there is such an eternal spiritual reality beside or beyond our own material reality, but how you can so flippantly mock the idea as something that should never even be considered is a ludicrous position for a thinking person to take.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When I was referring to an explosion, there is obviously matter contained within the explosion, the matter that was required to make the explosion, like a bomb, for example. The Big Bang was very different.
  
  Unfortunately, your "viable fact-based reality" does not appear to exist in our reality. The conditions you refer are in fact based on magic because they are conditions not present on this planet, at the very least.
  
  Yes, I understand believers dishonestly compare their "spiritual reality" to reality, but fail miserably upon facing reality.
  
  Sure, as ludicrous as not believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Anyone who claims they have evidence "beyond our own material reality" is lying, which is what the thinking person can easily see.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with GoldenBird. In order for something to come into existence, something already existing had to make made it come into existence. If all matter that exists now is a result of the Big Bang, something separate from matter we have today but has initiated the Big Bang. What is it?
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is the $Million question. Evolution the big bang or any other theory only addresses what is already there and not how it came into existance. That is the real question.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! As if believers are ever going to change their beliefs in light of that answer or any other answer regarding evolution or the big bang.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is actually the biggest argument for the existence of God. As Shakespeare said, "Nothing comes from nothing".
  
  A Troubled Man, you would never change your beliefs if scientists said, "Well, this is proof God exists". God doesn't have to be anything man knows about it. That is why some people are deists.
  
  The odd thing is that Stephen Hawkings says that the universe came into existence by gravity but physical laws on their own cannot create anything; they are merely a (mathematical) description of what normally happens under certain given conditions. How can such a erudite individual not get this?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So, where did God get the materials to make the universe? Nothing comes from nothing?
  
  If there were hard evidence that scientists found that conclusively agreed God existed, I would certainly understand God existed. That's called being honest.
  
  Once again, you probably shouldn't comment about concepts you have no understanding as it only makes one look very foolish.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In the physical world nothing comes from nothing. As a supernatural being, He is considered to always have been around. The physical world probably is a physical manifestation that could have been in another form in other dimensions.
  
  Scientists never agree on anything so you won't ever feel compelled to believe in God. God creating the universe if far more believable than RNA in a primordial source forming DNA then eventually being responsible for consciousness and the assemblance of the human body.
  
  Just saying.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The consideration that God has always been around is pure nonsense because your God has never even been shown to exist, so all you do is set up a false premise. Try again.
  
  That is another false premise or a lie, take your pick.
  
  Yes, the religiously indoctrinated who know very little or nothing at all about science, who wish to dishonestly present concepts for which they have no understanding as some sort of fairy tale they can deny in favor of their magical kingdoms and invisible sky beings, will indeed believe and embrace the gobbledegook they spew.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know of a single theist who doesn't think God hasn't always been around. That still counts as consideration. It stems from the premise that energy cannot be created or destroyed. If not created, then how did it come into being?
  
  I'd like you to explain to me exactly how RNA replicated into DNA then thousands of years down the line resulted in the assemblance of the human body and consciousness. Hasn't science proven that? I want a complete breakdown.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, it IS an irrational belief, not a consideration. A consideration would actually require careful thought, would need to be informative in order to be valid. Theists believe, they don't think.
  
  Once again, try to stop presenting concepts for which you have no understanding, it only makes you look incredibly foolish.
  
  Again, either go back to your bible or get an education before attempting to understand those concepts.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is irrational NOT to take into consideration that a god in a spiritual form made of energy does not existence so science cannot explain the origin of the universe.
  
  I assume you are very learned in science. So answer my last question on evolution from RNA to the human body and consciousness? Surely you know where consciousness comes from? It can't possible be from God.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, and based on your logic, is it irrational NOT to take into consideration anything that is invisible and has never been shown to exist in light of reality.
  
  I know for a fact you are not.
  
  Why do you persist in asking questions regarding concepts that you clearly have no understanding? You don't even understand the very elementary basics of evolution.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can't prove to others that God exists. It can be proven to an individual. That's all I care about. You just don't understand how the spiritual world works.
  
  You never did answer me the question I asked about evolution. I've been scratching my head. How did RNA and DNA in a primordial soup eventually assemble the human body and consciousness? Take me step by step because you are clearly a genius when it comes to evolution.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And, you do?
  
  Yeah sure, I'll just cram several volumes of works starting with the Origin of Species.
  
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Origin of Species does not prove that RNA and DNA eventually lead to the assemblance of the human body and added consciousness as well. Evolutionists just claims it just happened. I can take the chassis of a car, the engines, bonnet, steering wheel and look it all I like but it will never come into existence and work unless someone with intelligence assembles it.
  
  So you fail.
  
  Here is an argument that God is actually comprised of high frequency spectra of energy.
  
  To summarize, those frequencies beyond man's detection
  range are:
  
  * Hidden from view.
  * All the more powerful.
  * All the more intelligence within a given space.
  * Can pass right through matter undetected.
  * Can constructively interact with matter.
  * Can destructively interact with matter.
  
  The trend is that high frequency spectras of ENERGY
  do in fact match what the bible says about God. The
  bible states that:
  
  * God is HIDDEN from view.
  * God is all powerful.
  * God is extremely intelligent.
  * God can pass through matter undetected.
  * God can interact with his creation.
  
  X-Rays are also very high frequencies and thus cannot be seen.
  
  "X-rays being higher in frequency than the visual spectrum,
  also have a much shorter "wavelength". This means that
  the X-rays are much higher in resolution than the visual
  spectrum. The effects of this are simple, with the higher
  resolutions, you can get much more detailed information
  within the same space vs. that found with visual frequencies.
  In other words, the higher the frequency, the more
  intelligence within the same space."
  
  There will always be a "higher than we can detect"
  frequency that man can't find or measure since there
  is NO "upper frequency limit".
  
  To summarize, those frequencies beyond man's detection
  range are:
  
  * Hidden from view.
  * All the more powerful.
  * All the more intelligence within a given space.
  * Can pass right through matter undetected.
  * Can constructively interact with matter.
  * Can destructively interact with matter.
  
  Sooooo...to assert with certainty that God doesn't exist is just laughable. It clearly indicates a lack of scientific knowledge. The above scenario is very possible.
  
  http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/energy.htm
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  Joshua 24-15posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus came to earth, thus God has shown Himself to us. Jesus is God John 1:1
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And you actually believe it? Did jesus not say "take it with a grain of salt"? This means to me that one should not take it seriously, just learn what pertains to you and take it from there.
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  Joshua 24-15posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  One may not take bits and pieces from various parts of scripture and make it fit where it pleases them. Just as you would not read page 1&2 of a book and jump to the next chapter and try to reconcile the two together. There is a lot of information in between that must be learned to make sense of what you read.
  Actually, ALL of scripture pertains to man, if it were not so it would not have been given to us. All Scripture is God breathed and useful for teaching,...(2 Timothy 3:16)
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I spent years reading the entire bible time and again. I just have awakened to a different kind of truth and I see now that I was mistaken in believing that the bible was litteraly true. I see the bible as the birth of reasoning, in a(at the time) narrow minded part of the world. The problem that I saw, was that people were buying into the idea that people didn't know anything real about the world, so they relied totally on the bible for that knowledge. And I'm not talking about the physical world. I am talking about the world of thought and self directed action or will, if you prefer.
  
  I realized that life was not about what tribe or crowd to fit in with, nor was it about gospel truths. It was about truths that go beyond spirituallity and that delve into into the deepest corners of the psyche. While I do not contest your belief for you, I hold my beliefs or knowledge to be unimportant. I choose to live in the now and I choose to believe that everything, even the so called "written word of God" are just things and like the universe are just a passing by of things. I don't think it means anything. It does not matter to me, I am happy the way I am and the bible didn't make me this way, I chose to be this. I chosew to seek a cleaner more efficient way for myself I do not worry about the past and I do not see the future, for they do not exist. What exists, is now.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yes, it must be true if it's written in the bible.
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  Joshua 24-15posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, Sir. It is history. Seen by thousands (recorded) probably millions (thought the only records are of those that were mentioned when He fed them, taught, was seen after the last supper, etc.) You trust history don't you?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Time will tell. If scientists find those answers, don't you think believers will look extremely foolish by clinging to the creation myths they embrace now?
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you sure science will ever find those answers?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have no reason to think scientists won't find those answers. That is, unless believers blow up the world in the meantime.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think we will ever know why this exists. In my eyes it just does and there are many ways in which it can be inerpreted. It is a reallity that people believe as they do. It is wise to let them, but at the current rate at which our culture is changing, I see religion being replaced by knowledge seeking, within the next 1,000 + or - years from now. That is just a theoretical projection and should not be seen as an actual average.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A Troubled Man, your answer says that you have a belief in science. Just as many people have belief in religion, you got something else.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Believers must accept concepts based on belief as opposed to understanding so it makes sense you would make that false statement.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Knowledge and belief are are too different to define in any rational measure. It is wise to seek knowledge and beliefs can be foolish. Of course some of the wisest words I have ever heard, came form fools.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A Troubled Man, I pointed out your belief. And you are no better than religious people.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, it was my understanding, not my belief. Sorry.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your understanding, in this case, is just as subjective as a religious person's is about his religion.
  
  What joke you have created in this website, A Troubled Man- you come here to make people clear minded, while you are in belief with science. Science is your religion,
  
  I MUST now?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Most believers here believe the same nonsense and they fervently and dishonestly continue to spew the same nonsense, despite facts to the contrary.
  
  Welcome to their club.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You seem to be already a member
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I can say time will tell until God is proven. You can cling onto beliefs that a magical spark set off the Big Bang and ignoramuses like Christians can cling onto the belief that God exists and set off the Big Bang.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but you've already had thousands of years, the time is up.
  
  A magical spark? So, you really don't know anything about the big bang, then? Why would anyone make a choice based on not knowing anything about the choices?
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LMAO! The time is up, hey? Maybe it is because it is so complex that people haven't figured it out yet.
  
  How did the Big Bang come into existence? No one knows that is why the Hadron Collider is being used for. So we can get answers. Still...even if they succeed, and we won't be around to find out, they still used something that already existed to make something else come into existence.
  
  So...how about giving me a lesson on the Big Bang?
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  aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A Troubled Man doesn't give lessons.
  
  He /she only gives opinions, ridicule and criticism.
  That's his/her speciality. (NOTE; NO hubs... I rest my case.)
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, those are personal insults, not a case. Perhaps, you need some help understanding the difference between making a case and focusing on the individual?
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  aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not really!
  
  I simply made an observation.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, you didn't. And, we can leave it up to the admins here to make that decision if you wish.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it is reasonable to understand that believers consider their one dimensional beliefs complex.
  
  Because, we would need years of schooling of other subjects and criteria in order for you to have even the remotest understanding of what was being presented. That is made evident in all of your posts.
  
  It would be far better for you to not comment on anything scientific as it only makes you look very foolish.
  
  However, there are boatloads of material on the subject in books and on the internet for you to get started on building an education.
  
  Have you finished high school yet?
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You still haven't given me a lesson on what sparked off the Big Bang? If you are ruling out a magical spark, then what happened?
  
  The truth of the matter is, you just don't know.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Then, you probably didn't read my post in which it was clearly explained that you have a great deal of education to fulfill before you are able to digest anything about the Big Bang. Of course, that answer has yet to be discovered.
  
  And, neither do you. It is an answer that has yet to be discovered.
  
  Of course, in the meantime while scientists are trying to find those answers, you can either go back to your bible or try to get an education so that one day you may understand the answers when they are discovered.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, of course that answer needs to be discovered. Just like the existence of God. Is it God who initiated the Big Bang or was it a flint that sparked it off? If this issue is in contention, how can you automatically rule out one if the choice is between two hypothesis?
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feenixposted 12 years ago
A Troubled Man wrote:

"Why do you persist in asking questions regarding concepts that you clearly have no understanding? You don't even understand the very elementary basics of evolution."

Troubled Man, now that is what you said to one of the other participants in this forum.

Is that not an example of "getting personal?" Is that not an example of spatting an insult at someone else? Is that not an example of behavior that the "admins" would consider to be inappropriate?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good point, I will hence treat liars with the respect they deserve.
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feenixposted 12 years ago
A Troubled Man Wrote:

"Good point, I will hence treat liars with the respect they deserve."
________________________________________________

Now, why can't you be cool? Why do you have to accuse people who disagree with you of being liars?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  They aren't disagreeing, they are simply lying and that is being pointed out.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Okay. For the sake of keeping the peace, I will take your word for it.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I would never be satisfied if others just take my word for it, I would much rather they confirm themselves.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, right.
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  lizzieBooposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey feenix! Its nice to see you. A troubled man's only argument is that religious people are lying. He never tires of saying it.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Obviously then, religious people never tire of lying.
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  lizzieBooposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Or, as is more likely, you can't handle the truth.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps, if you offered the truth now and again, there might be something to handle.
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  aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  To be guilty of lying, one has to know the truth, but does not convey it, but something they KNOW to be false.
  
  The issue here is, which of you knows the TRUTH?
  
  So, Christians are not lying. They speak the truth.
  
  But, like many others, you call the truth anything but what it is, TRUTH.
  (Fairy tales, myths, legends, delusions, to name I few I have seen. )
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, Troubled Man, please stop calling "religious people" liars.
  
  Just as atheists believe that there is evidence that God does not exist, "religious people" believe that there is evidence that He does exist.
  
  So, what it all boils down to is, arguments between atheists and people who believe in God are nothing but Mexican standoffs.
  
  The only one who knows what is actually true is God, because His presence was realized long before you stepped foot into this world and His presence will continue to be realized long after you drop dead.
  
  In other words, you are nothing but a mere mortal who is going to die someday and go on to turn into dust, and God is immortal and everlasting. He will never die.
  
  Finally, the reason why you cannot bring yourself to believe that God exists is you do not understand.
  
  No, you don't understand because "believing" stems from something that you do not have the privilege of having -- which is blind faith.
  
  And one who does not have faith is indeed a miserable soul.
  
  In fact, misery is what drives individuals to commit such crimes as wrecklessly accusing others of being liars.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Only when they stop lying.
  
  Except, believers have never shown anyone their evidence. Can we see it, please?
  
  Yes, reality vs. magical kingdom.
  
  Religious brainwashing will continue, but not for too long. Several more generations and we'll begin to see God placed firmly on the shelf alongside the other myths.
  
  And, you understand magic?
  
  In other words, I lack the ignorance to believe.
  
  <--- Me being miserable
  
  Really? I always thought it was because the liars were lying. Now, we know better.
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  TJenkins602posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Everybody lies. It doesn't matter whether you are religious or Atheist.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Everyone knows that everyone lies and besides, that was not the point of what she wrote.
  
  Her point is, during those times when an individual is troubled, he/she is more prone to act violently towards others by doing such things as shooting accusations at them.
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Muldaniaposted 12 years ago
Man makes God in his image. This is why different gods take on the culture of the people who worship them.
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  lizzieBooposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Cynical but clever.
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  Joshua 24-15posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Muldania, You speak the truth! Those who worship dead gods can make anything their god, and that will get them nowhere but hell.
  However, if man were to choose Jesus, the LIVING God, they would see and experience things they would never imagine, the miracles of a true and living God, who loves even the most vile person enough to give them the opportunity to make things right, and choose life!
  It is actually very saddening to see people go day to day thinking they are somebody, only to be fooled in the end by their own pride and face hell fire.
  Choose you this day whom you will serve, as for me and my household we will serve the Lord
  Thank you for the opportunity to summarize Joshua 24:15.
  May God-the Living God bless you with knowledge, wisdom, and open eyes that you may see and understand the truth, that may save your soul from an eternity separated from the Maker.
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feenixposted 12 years ago
To: The Troubled Man

I believe the following:

(1) God does exist

(2) Jesus is the Son of God

(3) The Immaculate Conception actually happened

(4) Jesus died on The Cross for everyone's sins

(5) The Holy Resurrection actually happened

On the other hand, you do not believe that any one of the preceding is the case -- and that is cool with me.

I am not going to put you down because you have views that are different from mine.

And I am not going to hurl insults at you, nor am I going to accuse you of being such things as ignorant, brainwashed, unaware, a believer in myths, and/or a liar -- just because you and I do not share the same views on what could be described as a particular issue.

It is not my job to tell anyone else how to think, nor am I supposed to have the audacity to tell others that the way they think is inferior to the way I think.

You see, I fought in a war and one of the things I learned after being shot at and staring death in the face, on numerous occasions, is just how dumb and stupid nearly all human beings are.

While being pinned down by heavy enemy fire, being scared to nearly to death and realizing the stupidity and futility of it all, something that I consider to be quite significant came to mind.

I came to see that one of the primary reasons why there are wars is numerous human beings believe, or are thoroughly convinced, that the ways in which they see things is superior to the ways in which others see things.

As examples, Christians believe that the way they see things is superior to the way Muslims see things and vice versa -- communists believe that their views on socio-economic and political issues are superior to those of capitalists and vice versa -- and atheists believe that those who believe in God are ignorant and out of touch and vice versa.

Yes, because I have been under fire on numerous occasions, and found myself standing on the threshold to death, I know that the only way there will ever be peace on earth is for human beings to cease and desist their frequent practice of holding themselves above others, and holding their ways of thinking above those of others.

Thus, atheists who accuse believers of God of being such things as liars and ignorant, and believers of God who accuse atheists of being wicked sinners and the such, are little more than war mongers.

And I must admit that I am as guilty as anyone else of being a "war monger." I have a whole truckload of character defects.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I get that, and while I have a serious problem with childhood indoctrination, there isn't much one can do at this point other than to get an education so they can understand those beliefs are based on myths and that magic doesn't exist.
  
  I won't put YOU down either, however I will criticize those irrational beliefs because they have been the cause of millions of death, genocides, wars and host of other atrocities committed in the name of Jesus.
  
  I'm not sure how you can accuse me of anything other than presenting reality, which is what I try to do in the face of the irrational and illogical.
  
  Unfortunately, there is no thinking involved when one is indoctrinated into religion, only beliefs.
  
  Then, based on your logic, Christianity must go the way of the dodo.
  
  So, atheists are war mongers because Christians are ignorant and liars. Excellent logic. LOL!
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  lizzieBooposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Bravo Feenix!
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  High praise, indeed.
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  Kyle Payneposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You my friend are correct, all the way!
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why thank you very much, Kyle. And I am quite pleased to have made your acquaintance.
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yolanda yvetteposted 12 years ago
Correct, A Troubled Man, that wasn't an argument. But it is faith-based. Have a great day!!!
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feenixposted 12 years ago
To: The Troubled Man

Straight up, my friend, the kind of intolerance for the opinions of others that you are demonstrating in this forum exemplifies the reason why there have been so many wars and conflicts in this world.

In recent times, such atheist states as the old Soviet Union, Red China and Cuba have have fueled more wars and atrocities than any offensive actions taken in the name of religion ever did.

For example, how many people were eliminated by the orders of the atheist Soviet Union leaders Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Stalin? Five-million, 10-million, 20-million?

Furthermore, how many people were eliminated by the atheist Red China leader Mao tse-Tung? Twenty-million, 30-million, 50-million?

The point is, when it comes to carrying out deadly conflicts, wars and atrocities, no single group of human beings has a monopoly on that kind of behavior.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Straight up, that would ensure the complete denial of history on your part.
  
  Perhaps, you need to understand the concept of Communism, its origins and postulates.
  
  What does any of that have to do with the atrocities committed in the name of your God?
  
  Are you saying we shouldn't adopt Communism and should adopt Christianity, even though both have brought about millions of deaths?
  
  Seriously, dude. Are you sure you're making a valid argument here?
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feenixposted 12 years ago
To: A Troubled Man

One of the things that my vast knowledge of human behavior tells me about you is that you have a profound need to be seen as one who is smarter and more informed than everyone else.

So, check it out, stud. Since I now know that you really do have a very deep need to be seen as an important and relevant person, I will yield to you.

You're number one. You're the champ. You're The One Who Knows All There Is To Know. You're my daddy.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Or, I'm just a guy who can see reality for what it is and don't need to create fantasy laden faith based realities to appease an invisible sky fairy.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I would be willing to bet that you get your kicks by going around telling little kids there is no such thing as Santa Claus.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, and I eat babies for breakfast, too.
  
  At least it's nowhere near as bad as brainwashing little kids to believe they'll burn for an eternity if they don't accept Jesus as their savior, or that God flooded the world and killed everyone and everything on it, or how God made a wager with Satan that Job wouldn't kill his own son and then put it to the test.
  
  Yes, telling little kids that Santa Claus doesn't really exist must be devastating to their fragile minds.
  
  How is evangelism working for you, anyways?
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This forum is not about Judaism or Christianity. It is about God.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Really? If it's about God, why are talking about little kids and Santa Claus, and why is it in the form of a personal insult?
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In the form of a personal insult?
  
  Pobrecito. Que son demasiado sensibles. Poor fellow. You are overly sensitive.
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wilmiers77posted 12 years ago
May I participate?
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wilmiers77posted 12 years ago
Who created God is moot. Even if there is an infinite regression of Gods, the One who count is our God who created everything in our existence. We must complete "what is" (Qua) here and now before even imagining other gods. Imagining now is futile.
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BNashposted 12 years ago
So silly... there is plain as day evidence of a creator right in front of your faces every day, you breathe it, you ingest it, you think it, everything in existence works by it. Its called law. There are basic laws that everything is bound to and follows. You cannot break the laws of gravity can you? No, gravity is there, you can use machines to fight the hold of gravity, but you cannot remove it. Just look at math, yes something as simple as math. Everything, the planets, the stars, the gases the liquids the solids, they are all bound by laws. For there to be law there has to be understanding, for there to be understanding there has to be reason. For there to be reason there must be consciousness. There is obvious order and planning in everything, otherwise nothing would work, and we wouldn't exist to ask the questions we do everyday.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hello, BNash,
  
  First, I am very pleased to be making your acquaintance.
  
  Second, your contribution to this forum is absolutely awesome, beautiful and very well written.
  
  Moreover, what you wrote is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is an honor to be making your acquaintance as well, Captain. Thank you sincerely for your comments. I think it is silly that people still cannot see the obvious. I think a troubled man has worried too much about the things men who do not truly understand God's will have done in his name. There are many who call themselves Christians, not understanding who Christ is, or what he would truly want. It has been recorded by the apostles as to what he wants us to do, which would change the face of this planet even as we know it today, if only everyone would listen. It is my favorite quote from the bible. THE 2 GREATEST COMMANDMENTS FROM THE MOUTH OF JESUS. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." [Matt22:37-40] He speaks again of law here, very important to understand TRUE LAWS cannot be removed, and that TRUE PROPHETS TRULY LOVE THEIR GOD AND THEIR NEIGHBORS. Right in front of our faces, plain as day, we know it in our hearts to be true deep down inside, yet we cannot seem to grasp that concept to its fullest depth. We touch love a little here and there, and even fool ourselves into believing something is love when it is not, but to have a love so deep that you love your God above all else and your neighbor as you love yourself (including enemies), that humbles me, that brings me to my knees in awe. Who among you can honestly say that you have this kind of love? I would like to believe I do, but I would be lying to myself. I still hold grudges at times, and cast judgment when I should not, and do things I should not, which means I am weak and I cause misery at times with my actions and choices, but I am trying to be conscious of these things with Jesus' help, I am trying to fulfill those commandments, and that is what is important, and Jesus knows this and our God knows this. So again, if any of you still question the proof of our Creator, just think on the laws of mathematics and the basic laws of the universe, gravity etc..
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What's funny about that being obvious is those people were Church leaders who would firmly disagree with anyone telling them they didn't understand God's will, especially by one of their followers.
  
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  even church leaders can be wrong troubled man... and I never claimed to follow any of them... the only person I ever claim allegiance to is Jesus the Christ. But as soon as you can come up with some proof to your beliefs like I did for you troubled man, then maybe I will pay more heed to your opinions. If you still cannot see the truth in my posts then you are just being difficult and obtuse. It looks like you are here just trying to persuade people to be as miserable as you are, regardless of any truths passed on. If you care about anyone other than yourself you would take a few moments to reflect on the true wisdom passed on here from those who have obviously taken the time to do real research and reflection on these topics. It just seems to me that you are angry and just want to be angry.. so when you get that out of your system, maybe we could have a true intellectual discussion about the many beliefs of the many religions.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  <--- Me being angry and really, really, really wanting to be angry.
  
  <--- Yet, more anger.
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feenixposted 12 years ago
BNash,

You are truly a good person. That is quite clear to me.
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feenixposted 12 years ago
A Troubled Man wrote:

Really? Then, you should be able to provide the relevant Bible quotes that say God is NOT a thing and is NOT a part of "everything".

_______________________________________________________________

Hey, Man, this is not school and you are not one of my teachers.

Therefore, I don't have to complete any assignments for you.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  True, it is a public discussion forum in which anyone can say whatever they want and never have to substantiate a thing, at the expense of their credibility, though.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You believe that I lack credibility?
  
  Cool. I wear that as a Badge of Honor.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not really, it's just something that is becoming evident in your posts.
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, I lack credibility.
  
  Accusations such as that come with the territory when one writes in public venues.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Especially, when they make claims and can't substantiate them. Why would you want to do that?
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  lizzieBooposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Feenix doesn't lack credibility. He has something to say based on real life. You're still crying about what teachers said to you in nursery school. Your posts are that rudimentary.
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  why dont you stop trying to annoy feenix and come up with something to prove my statements wrong troubled man... I obviously have you caught in your foolishness and you just want to ignore it. Someday you may grow up, we all wait for that day.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You propose magic created what exists in stark contrast to what we actually see. Agreed, that is totally silly.
  
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feenixposted 12 years ago
To whom it may concern:

The "vote downs" are childish little acts.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What vote downs?
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  feenixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just thinking out loud.
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GoldenBirdposted 12 years ago
I had to step in. The troubled woman seems to be someone's sockpuppet, whose chief motive is to disturb good discussions, and get some attention to her infantilism.

Report on her profile. Don't respond to her posts. Don't feed the psychopath.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  <--- coveted double laughie award
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You seem to laugh much without cause. That's a good way to suppress grief and psychosis.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Are you now stating that I'm suppressing grief and psychosis when I laugh hysterically at your posts, or could it be that your posts are just very funny nonsensical word salads? I suspect the latter.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You took all of it personally.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "We ever need the fool, for without him, we would never question what we think we know". Zen prose
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I see now, your insults were never meant to be personal.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And still you are responding to them.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your personal insults are still going over my head?
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Something has hit troubled woman's psychosis.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It seems he seeks some form of agreement, then again, maybe he likes to argue. I bet he doesn't have too many friends in life. The fantasy of a truly self involved person.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You two should get a room.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So, in your opinion. Do you think you are better than everyone ele here in the HP? I am detecting a Naoleonic complex, though I may be mistaken.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If that's what you want to believe, feel free.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's not what I want to believe, it is a question.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I also think that. Have you read her name? -Pretty instructive to her character.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Have you?
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Continue woman. You got more to show of your mental health.
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "nonsensical word salads"... Do you just not understand the english language? Are you just blind to truth? I agree with mischeviousme, now you are just being a fool since I have provided you with solid evidence of my beliefs. It is apparent to me that you just do not WANT to believe in any of it, and your smiley face isnt fooling anyone, you cannot hide the anger and misery in your words.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is said that the biggest fool, is an itelligent person that thinks they know everything. Though I think we all act the part, for we are just guessing. We create this world as we move along and everything we make of it, is just an illusion.
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I do not claim to know everything, but I do know that I have spent some time of my life devoted to the pursuit of knowledge on some topics.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Study all topics and forget what you have learned. This is how one can move ahead with knowledge gained, for that is not who we are.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Understanding the English language and accepting the fantasies of believers are two completely different, according to English language definitions.
  
  Yes, you have provided solid evidence that you are a believer. However, your beliefs are pure fantasy.
  
  <--- Anger and misery
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So explain to me then the laws of the universe... wait no take a step back.. lets.. look at the definition of LAW in Merriam Webster. I'm going to take a piece of it to shorten this post down, you can look at the rest of it at the webster's website:
  
  " a general relation proved or assumed to hold between mathematical or logical expressions "
  
  Even the definition man has for law plainly states that it is proved or assumed to hold between mathematical expressions as well... well lets look at the definition of MATHEMATICS from Merriam Webster:
  
  " the SCIENCE of numbers and their operations, interrelations, combinations, generalizations, and abstractions and of space configurations and their structure, measurement, transformations, and generalizations "
  
  A quote from the definition of SCIENCE:
  
  "1: the state of KNOWING : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding "
  
  And from the definition of KNOWING:
  
  " 1: having or reflecting KNOWLEDGE, information, or INTELLIGENCE
  2 a : shrewdly and keenly alert : astute <a knowing observer>
  b : indicating possession of exclusive inside knowledge or information <a knowing smile>
  3: COGNITIVE
  4: DELIBERATE "
  
  Back to the definition of LAW:
  
  "a (1) : a binding custom or practice of a community : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a CONTROLLING AUTHORITY."
  
  And back to my original point of everything in our existence is bound by these rules, we explain everything in our universe with MATHEMATICS and SCIENCE which follow basic LAWS, proven to only exist under the CONTROLLING AUTHORITY of a COGNITIVE INTELLIGENCE with DELIBERATE intentions!!!! Most people call him God, like Jesus did.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You have given no proof whatsoever your God or Jesus or whatever magical super being you wish to refer controls any laws. Where is your proof of your magical being?
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Then you obviously didnt read, or understand the post, maybe when you get an intelligence yourself you can understand the words that are written here. I never claimed there was any magical being at all.. all I did was use simple definitions from the dictionary to prove the existence of a cognitive intelligence with controlling authority over basic laws that the entirety of existence adheres to and obeys... now you are just arguing against the dictionary too which makes you even sillier...
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and you can't even come up with a decent rebuttal to anything ive posted.. im done wasting my time with you.. like I said, when you actually come up with proof for your point of view I will speak with you again. Ive shown you the proof without even using the bible. I will pray for you troubled man, that you may be given intelligence and wisdom one day to see the truth, until that time, I guess we will endure your trolling.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I understood it just fine. It was a bunch of definitions. That's it.
  
  Sorry, but the dictionary is not proof of your imaginary super being.
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's true the dictionary is not the proof, it is Science and Law that proves it. The proof is already there and has always been there, your ignorance to see the signs when they hit you in the face is the only thing you have.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hilarious. Your posts just keep getting more ridiculous. Now you claim science and laws proves your invisible sky fairy?
  
  Stop signs? Yield to slippery slope ahead signs?
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Science and Law are the fingerprints of his existence.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Fingerprints can be found at the end of fingers. Where are Gods fingers?
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  on God's hands silly
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Show me God's hands then, if you've seen them.
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I havent seen his hands, nor do i know if he even has hands or a set physical being, ive only seen his fingerprints left on our existence. Science and Law! You can try to deny the fact that they are proof of his existence but that just means you dont understand Science and Law so.. educate yourself and we shall talk more.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So, your claims are bogus.
  
  But, you'll repeat the bogus claims regardless.
  
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How are my claims bogus? Just like one would find fingerprints of a person who touched a glass, or ran their finger across a window covered with condensation, just because the person is not physically there at that moment does not mean that person does not exist....
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Because you have absolutely no evidence to support them.
  
  Utter nonsense. There are no God fingerprints outside of your vivid imagination.
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  lol i already supported them with evidence... just because you don't want to believe the evidence doesn't make the evidence any less evident. I have nothing to do with the evidences existence, it already exists. And you saying "utter nonsense" over and over again without having any good arguments is just a waste of both of our times. Debates usually have 2 people with decent arguments to back up their points of view, I have provided plenty of evidence supporting my point of view, the only thing you have provided us with is a clear understanding that you are just going to say over and over again, you do not want to believe no matter if it is true or not.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, you made a faith based decree, that isn't evidence.
  
  Faith based declarations are utter nonsense.
  
  You've provided nothing but your faith.
  
  I don't believe your faith based declarations. They are useless.
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just because i have faith does not mean my means of proving my statement are all faith based, as a matter of fact if you see how i proved it, you would notice that I didnt use anything out of the bible or from any other religion. I used 2 words that you will hear nearly every day, and their definitions alone. So apparently to you, words are useless.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe not, but this one certainly was faith based with not an iota of evidence.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is a "Troubled Man" female??
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps, Goldenbird is a misogynist who believes inferiority is being female.
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Im beginning to think hes actually just an agent of satan, maybe one of the third of the angels that were cast out from heaven to be a sore upon the earth and an affliction to mankind... maybe we should just call him troubled demon
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Call me whatever you like if makes you feel superior.
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I only feel aggravated by your ignorance to the truth and your attempts to persuade people of the truth.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Let it go and be peaceful. We cannot will him to change, that is a journey of his own.
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  True, you will find it difficult to convince me to be stupid.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm just wondering what you are doing on these forums. Just to laugh at people? Don't you have anything better to do? Do something constructive inside of pulling others down! We were not put on this earth to pull others down for our amusement!
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I could take up religion and fill these forums with lies about science and evolution, or rail at homosexuals, or tell everyone they'll burn for an eternity if they don't accept Jesus, if that would make you feel better and make it appear constructive.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Great answer! I respect you more with every comment. While the belief is beautiful, it comes across as crass and dehumanizing.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  The troubled sockpuppet.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Instead of dehumanizing others, we should laugh with them and find the enlightenment of it, uplifting. He is absolutely right, even if it is his own concept of truth, so then are we all. That is a unifying reality, we see things with our own eyes and we judge as we see it.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The only thing I will ever ask her, is, can't she speak a little nicer?
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  On the road to becoming a gentleperson, we must all undergo the experience of self.
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  GoldenBirdposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  True.
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We do judge as we see it, but obviously our judgments are not always accurate, we see miscalculations all the time in judgment. It is important to recognize our unintended consequences and to learn from life. I will quote from Atisha (11th century Tibetan Buddhist master) about buddhism:
  
  "The greatest achievement is selflessness.
  The greatest worth is self-mastery.
  The greatest quality is seeking to serve others.
  The greatest precept is continual awareness.
  The greatest medicine is the emptiness of everything.
  The greatest action is not conforming with the worlds ways.
  The greatest magic is transmuting the passions.
  The greatest generosity is non-attachment.
  The greatest goodness is a peaceful mind.
  The greatest patience is humility.
  The greatest effort is not concerned with results.
  The greatest meditation is a mind that lets go.
  The greatest wisdom is seeing through appearances."
  
  May this be a guide on your paths to enlightenment as it is on mine. These things can be very hard to achieve, especially in todays society.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for that.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's not the point what Christians do. I'm asking you what YOU are doing here. How is it constructive?
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What ATM is doing is countering stupidity with nonsense!
  Constructive? If spreading religion is constructive, he is constructive just like any other believer.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it is. Some much worse than others.
  
  I would ask the same question of you. Why are you here making up or propagating lies about science? How is that constructive?
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You still haven't told me why you are here. I'm asking YOU! Stop skirting around this question!
  
  What am I doing here? I'm hoping people can learn from me regarding the topic of the forum as I have learnt from others. I'm just a bit puzzled about me lying about science. Refresh my memory? Are you referring to energy not being able to be created? If you don't understand this fact, then I can't help you.
  
  I think you should also differentiate between being misinformed and lying. Lying is a deliberate attempt to deceive while claiming something that isn't correct while that person believes it to be true is just ignorance.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Try to keep your focus on the subject matter rather than me.
  
  No, they are lying when their lies are exposed and they continue to embrace their lies.
  
  I don't need to refresh your memory as I've exposed lies as they've appeared. If you actually believe you don't remember that, then that would say quite a bit about your honesty.
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  BNashposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  you havent exposed anything other than your lack of understanding and ability to read
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LMAO! ATM, anyone who disagrees with you is a liar. It's extremely childish to think that way. So you think your purpose in life is to expose lies about invisible sky fairies and science. You set for yourself low goals in life.
  
  Give me one lie that you have exposed. I do remember but let's go over again what constitutes a lie in the example you will give me.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In your last post you claimed I didn't know how the spiritual world works which implied that you do. That's one of many.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You don't know how the spiritual world works. That's not a lie. I technically cannot know everything about the spiritual world because I have a finite mind. It would be a lie to say I knew everything about it. Having experiences with it, I can surmise that something appearing and disappearing out of thin air means the object has just gone from one frequency to another frequency we cannot detect. Here's an example: if you change the dial of a radio to change from the radio station you are currently listening to another one, the previous radio station doesn't seize to play music, it has just gone out of our frequency range.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, it would be a lie if you claimed to know anything about it.
  
  <--- coveted double laughie award
  
  Radio frequencies are real. Huge difference.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you believe radio frequencies, why not believe in spirits made of frequencies that can tune in and out of our dimension? How do you know that this isn't so? How do you know this is a blatant lie? As I said, anything you don't agree with, or don't want to agree with, is a lie to you.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is one of the reasons why you know so little about anything, because you "believe" and you don't think.
  
  I don't "believe" in radio frequencies, I understand them. So, I don't believe nor understand "spirits made of frequencies" because there's absolutely no evidence for their existence whatsoever, so obviously there's nothing to understand.
  
  Because you just made it up out of thin air.
  
  No, those who tell lies are lying.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You mean you've got no evidence for it. All evidence paranormal investigators have are clearly nonsense just because you don't want to believe in it. The concept is sound.
  
  Two hundreds years ago if you claimed X-Rays existed people would have laughed at you. Just because they had no evidence of it clearly didn't mean X-Rays didn't exist. So for you to just dismiss things because it doesn't come to you on a silver plate is just plain foolish.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, because paranormal investigators have no evidence at all. Simple really.
  
  Your example is a fallacy and silly, too. Obviously, if someone claimed X-rays existed, they had some evidence. Are you saying they just made it up out of thin air like you do?
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You think they have no evidence. I hardly think you have consulted all of them in the world.
  
  Regarding the X-Rays, if people don't understand what X-Rays are then they aren't going to accept any evidence.
  
  You just ASSUME I make things up. You have no way of knowing that. You must be the most close minded person on this earth.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What does this have to do with me? Paranormal investigators are charlatans and frauds, they have never produced one iota of evidence.
  
  Why not?
  
  Yes, I know when you are making stuff up when the facts are presented and they have nothing to do with whatever it was you made up.
  
  I'm sure you probably read or hear that stuff, too and you may be just parroting it. It still boils down to the same thing; nonsense.
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So you have asked every paranormal investigator for evidence and they failed to do so?
  
  Do you do anything else in life but call people liars? It achieves nothing and you know it.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No paranormal investigator has brought an iota of evidence to light, anywhere, anytime. Why do you believe that has anything to do with me?
  
  Yes, do you do anything else in life but lie?
  
  It exposes liars for what they are.
  
  I would suspect it is lying that achieves nothing, but perhaps you don't agree with that?
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  Claire Evansposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As I said, have you visited every paranormal investigator and debunked their evidence? No, you have not.
  
  I don't see anything constructive from our conversations. You refuse to see anything that doesn't conform to your version of reality. It's dangerous because it leads to deception.
  
  If you want to be deceived, then go for it. Just don't make it my problem. Don't address me in future.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, you just don't get it, they don't have any evidence to debunk. Do you understand that?
  
  My reality is your reality, we all share it. I don't refuse to see anything that is there to see.
  
  I will point out your deceptions and false statements whenever I like.
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Kyle Payneposted 12 years ago
God would not be God if He was created.
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Cara.Rposted 12 years ago
Hi Mischeviousme,
Do you consider yourself a Bodhisattva of sorts? I ask sincerely.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know and it doesn't matter.
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Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago
You continue to show how well you grasp the concepts that you uncovered yourself, mischievious. Not messin' with you! Truth.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Happy to share it with you.
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rLcasaLmeposted 12 years ago
Is it not good to know that God is sovereign but man has free will? Obviously, this is a paradox. I have a problem saying this. Jesus did not have a problem saying this complication. He says it with confidence. I cannot. He seemed able to understand its harmony. I couldn't.
I'm glad I have this problem of understanding this. It only tells me that I am not God. It only tells me I have this puny little limited brain. And finally, it tells me the deity of Jesus Christ.
We cannot know everything God knows. We only know what was revealed to us whether it be scriptural, spiritual, or psychological.
He is the Alpha and the Omega. No one created Him.
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Final Question | Who created God?

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Final Question | Who created God?

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