Are mosque prayers and church bells a abusing the rights of others?

1. 83

   earnestshubposted 12 years ago

   I worked in Malaysia for a while and the morning prayers were outrageous!
   If you started your lawnmower in my neighborhood at that time of the day someone would call the cops!
   
   The noise was not only loud, but often high pitched like someone shouting an episodic psychosis for the world to hear. I found it near nauseating.
   
   I have had the same experience with church bells on Sunday morning in a town here in Australia at an ungodly hour of the morning.
   
   Slap em with a disturbing the peace warrant I say!

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      Stevennix2001posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      sorry to hear that happened to you ernest.

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      Freya Cesareposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Don't live near mosque if you can't stand it. Pack your belonging and move. There's nothing you can do about it.

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         skipper112posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I gather by your pic you are ISLAMIC Freya,why do you not put your NOISY  MOSQUE'S in the DESERT, they are just pure noise, too noisy, VERRY NOISY, and to me should be banned from making that much noise,OK

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            Freya Cesareposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. But Mosque will stay where the follower of Islam live because it will only useful that way. And Adzan is calling for prayer so it have to be loud to be able to reach many people and wake those who still sleep.
            
            It mean to be noisy.

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      2. 83

         earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         In many cities I have worked in Asia there is no place to escape it. If you had read my comment and paraglider's you would have a fuller understanding. I have no such problem where I live.

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            Freya Cesareposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Here in my country, usually first calling of fajr prayer not as loud as another time of prayer. Muadzin only used singing voice which is soft and not shocking. Sorry it put you in trouble. But from my experience, you will get used to after several time. How about using earplug? It may help.

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               earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I no longer have contracts in Malaysia, but a friend is working there currently and is having the same problem I had. I suggested ear plugs to him, but like myself, I do not feel comfortable sleeping without being able to hear. He has already tried 3 sets!
               
               I just think it is rude and an imposition to make others put up with being woken at a ridiculous hour after working a long day because of some religion. I just can't do it for any length of time as I get tired every day just when I need to be at my best.

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                  Freya Cesareposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I am sorry you feel that way.

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               Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               What this shows is a complete lack of respect for others. If anyone else came to your neighborhood and woke you up making noise and then told you to wear earplugs or move if you didn't like it, you too would be upset and try to do something about it.
               
               That's why they have "Noise" bylaws.

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                  Freya Cesareposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I offered that solution because nothing can be done about it. Living in the country where Islam is majority will give you this kind of problem indeed. Muslim have to wake that early so it is casual for them to listen to that calling.
                  
                  I just trying to explaining that: Nothing you can do if it is about the Mosque noise in the country where Muslim is majority. We didn't considering it as noise at all. Sorry about that.

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                     earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     A Survey of visiting non-muslim business men would help throw some light on how offensive it is to the majority of western people who work 9.5.
                     I used to stay in Malaysia for jobs then fly home as often as 3 times a month just to get some rest, the plane is always full of other sleep deprived individuals often airing the same complaint.

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                     Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Oh, I see, since you now claim that because Muslims are a majority, they can do whatever they want regardless of what anyone else thinks or feels.
                     
                     One problem with your claim is that no matter whether Muslims are a majority or not, they still do whatever they want, regardless. In other words, Islam takes priority over everyone else wants and needs, hence it does not respect others.

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      skipper112posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes they are, hear in sydney they even get streets closed for the end of Ramadam, the local Christian Church's get nothing, The Muslims get whole street'a closed and police presence, and demand that they be allowed to upset the whole suburb, and they will park anywere they like even across your DRIVEWAY and the Cop's turn a BLIND EYE.
      Yes the Call to praryer is too loud , and the behiviour is too rude!!
      
      and sorry Freya we were their 1st, they came to my country.
      So let then shutup or shift, I was there 1st.
      
      And Islam wonders why it is not welcome, gee it is just because they want everything their OWN WAY. And if out woman wish to wear a bikini on a beach it IS NONE OF ISLAMS BUISNESS, if you do not like it go to a Country were it is BANNED.
      
      And also Freya this is my COUNTRY I am 4th Gereration Aussie, if you want to change this COUNTRY GO HOME, we love this Country the way it was, before your loud screaming just to tell us what the rosters tell up it is daybreak, and roosters sound BETTER.

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      nightwork4posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      i think that if you want to practice religion that is your right but to disturb others because of youe beliefs is not only wrong but ignorant. we don't have any mosque here in my town but we do have catholic churches. they use to sound their bells every sunday but either they don't do it anymore or i don't hear them because there is not church near me. religion has no right being shoved in anyones face , whether it is by noise or by display but then again religion has a lot of power in this world so i'm thinking were pretty much stuck with it for a while at least.

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   pylos26posted 12 years ago

   You got my vote Earnest.

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   Diane Insideposted 12 years ago

   It's ridiculous to say a church can't even ring its bell.  But I also think it is ridiculous that someone would call the cops for someone starting a lawnmower just because it is at that time of day. 
   
   Why can't they say live and let live and leave it at that.
   
   Here a local bank has a clock that chimes every hour on the hour, and on fridays at exactly noon there is city disaster siren test. I suppose we would have to stop those as well.

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      earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I gather you have no problem with being woken at dawn my someone screaming their head off next door through a PA system then?

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         Diane Insideposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Well since I am deaf in my right ear and my left ear is in the pillow I doubt I would mind too much.
         
         but seriously, if it is regualar activities that happen I see no harm. Just like the lawn mower.  But just distrubing the peace for no reason now that would be a problem after awhile especially since I could see it now.....
         
         It would be a noise war to drown out the other just because they don't agree with what the other is doing.

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            earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            My hearing is lousy but the constant whinging whining nasal vocals amplified at dawn?
            
            I find it totally offensive. How could anyone sleep after being woken by that noise?
            I wonder what would happen if I decided to go into a neighborhood and make that much noise at dawn. My guess is someone would soon do something about it!

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               Shadesbreathposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               You don't have God giving you permission to tell everyone else to piss off.
               
               That's a big difference.
               
               You get God on your side, you can't treat lots of people like crap.

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                  SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  ....hey Earnest....nice to see you back!....love that comeback SB! ....night all!  thanks for the chuckle!

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                     earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Glad to oblige.

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         skipper112posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I'm with you Earnest, too bloody much noise

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   Shadesbreathposted 12 years ago

   Yes, imposing the sounds of your faith on the entire community is not only rude, it's conceited.
   
   I've heard those horrendous droning speakers crackling tone-deaf Islamic rhetoric across towns and always thought to myself how absolutely infuriating that would be.
   
   There is no way, in the U.S., that would be allowed... and if it was, well, I can see myself becoming a vandal and doing anything I possibly could to destroy the speakers at every possible opportunity.
   
   That is ear rape.
   
   The Christian bells were a product of a certain time in our history, but we, the <cough> Christian nation <cough> have realized that by our own ideals, that's bullsh#t, and that is going away too.  WHich it should.  Why should Muslims and Atheists and Pagans and all the 9,000,000 other religions have to listen to that crap.
   
   For a wedding in the middle of the day, briefly, fine, I'll live with it.  (I already have to deal with the whole-weekend festivities every other weekend during the summer of the Sikh temple a half mile from us that just never shuts up at all, ever... but at least they don't start till around 10). But on a schedule, always, every day, forever... no chance.  I'll destroy the bells or speakers or anything else.  "Pursuit of happiness" doesn't get to F---- my happiness."

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      earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well said Shadesbreath
      
      It is megalomanic to impose ones religious noise on the rest of the human race at such an hour.
      The screeching tone is an assault to the senses.
      Bells can be just as bad in some cases.

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      Diane Insideposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      ear rape  LOL  your too funny.

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      Diane Insideposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      So the banks clock bells is okay.

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         Shadesbreathposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I would say "no," but I don't have one, so, can't tell you.  If it's some sort of community icon dating back 100 years or something, well, maybe I'd learn to live with it since I did move in after it was already there (me being less than 100 years old) etc.  If enough people hate it, they can shut it down through petition or city ballot or something.
         
         
         
         I totally agree.  That's why there are ordinances about sound volumes.  You can call the cops on the neighbors thumping their stereos, but if you call the cops on a church or mosque, yeah, see how that works out for you. 

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            Stevennix2001posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah, but have you ever heard of ear plugs?  they work extremely well to block out noises.  plus, you can always get your house/apartment/duplex or whatever to be sound proof if you wanted.  sure, it'll cost you but if it bothers you that much, then what are your other alternatives then?  Move perhaps?  Besides shades, you and i  both know it could a lot worse.  hell, you could be living a beaten down old apartment where gangs and thugs do petty crimes all the time and drive by shootings waking you up in the middle of the night.  would you rather have that bothering you as your trying to sleep?  or would you rather put up with church bells?  i don't know about you but if church bells in the morning is the worst thing i have to worry about, then i think i'm in good shape.

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               sandra rinckposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Quiter bells would be a start.

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               Shadesbreathposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               On a pragmatic level, I agree with you (except about wearing ear plugs.  If something is so horrendous and constant that I require ear plugs, I'm going to do something about it.  If it turns out I can't change it, I'll move.)
               
               Yes, it could be worse, we could live in some horrendous neighborhood of violence and machinegun fire.  HOwever, part of the point of working hard and trying to elevate your standard of living is finding your way into a community that isn't sub-human and still approaching life from a violence-as-the-solution mentality, the "what are you going to do about it, ass#0!e? mentality.  I'd like to think that at some point, you finally reach a place that hard work and diligence is rewarded by access to a neighborhood that respects personal space.  A place where THEY can wear ear phones to crank up their holy message or their rap music or whatever it is their little group likes, and spare everyone else within the radius of sound waves having to endure what really only matters to the people who like it.  That's called respect, and it requires a certain level of higher-culture in my opinion.  Everyone is capable of getting there, but lots don't give a crap.  For many, validation of beliefs lies in crapping on everyone else.

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                  Stevennix2001posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  hmm..that's a very good point.  maybe you should write your local congressman or something to see if they can get a law like that approved. you never know.  im sure if you get a lot of petitions for your proposal, then you might end up getting your wish.

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      Stevennix2001posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      no offense shades, but you do realize that calling something ear rape is highly subjective, right?  as one could easily prove that rock music and rap are ear rape just as easily.  as rock music was started as a sense of rebellion, so one could call it ear rape as it encourages rebellion and for teens to lash out and rebel against their parents.  Rap can be deemed as ear rape, as some forms of rap, namely gangsta, promotes the objectification of women and condones gangster life style.  You see, your argument works both ways.  Therefore, calling something ear rape is highly subjective, at best, and impossible to prove. 
      
      edit: if you don't believe me about why rock and roll was started, i can easily give you a lesson about it.  as anyone that knows about rock will tell you that it was started as a sense of rebellion.

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   Diane Insideposted 12 years ago

   and every day at exactly 3pm I hear the ice cream truck, because the kids are getting home from school. We should stop that too.

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      earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I have never heard an icecream truck at 4 am. I have never heard an ice cream truck that was allowed to poke out 75 decibals either. This is a ridiculous comparison in my view!

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         Diane Insideposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         No it's that particular noise you don't like because it is a church. period.

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            earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You are comparing a sound made by an ice cream truck at 3pm in the afternoon to a loudspeaker on top of a building at 4 am.
            
            Am  I to understand that you are arguing that both offer the same nuisance value, and if there is a case to halt one then it applies to the other? This is plain nonsensical to me.

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               Diane Insideposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               No I also mentioned the bank clock which is quite loud and sounds every hour.

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   cascolyposted 12 years ago

   I'm a atheist, but i dont mind either church bells or azan - i've traveled in Turkey, Syria, Egypt, Iran and central asia, and the morning call to prayer always reminded me of gregorian chant.  THe first call also gives me time to savor another few hours of sleep.  similarly, traveling in europe with small town churches ringing the hours just increases the ambience.  oddly, in Iran you won't hear any azan - it's presented on TV, but not through minaret speakers.
   
   we live in a residential area of a city - helicopters [2 hospitals nearby], sirens and other random noises are commonly heard.  at least i think they are - it all becomes background after awhile
   
   steve

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7. 89

   Paragliderposted 12 years ago

   Here in Doha, the call to prayer from many of the mosques is very loud indeed, and within the city you are never further than 500 metres from at least one and typically three mosques. The pre-dawn call never wakens me, yet the far quieter beep of my phone alarm does, reliably every morning. The brain tunes out what it doesn't need to hear.
   In fact, I quite like the ambience of muezzins all around the city striking up together in cacaphonic harmony. I prefer it to the constant noise of over-revved Land Cruisers. And it's only sound that's emitted from the loudhailers, no heat and noxious gases.
   Back home in UK, I live near an ancient Abbey with a prodigious peal of bells. I like that too. I like the quirky skill of the bell ringers. It only gets a bit tedious on Thursday evenings which is their practice night.
   The only time the mosques here do irritate me is on the Friday around lunchtime when not only the prayer call but the entire hour-long address is projected. This is for the benefit of the many who pray on the street outside the mosques on Fridays. The loud spoken word is a bit harsh on the ear. But it's their country. I'm the  guest here.
   I think the whole issue is best handled by "Noise Abatement Regulations" or some such thing, whereby everything is allowed provided it doesn't exceed agreed thresholds at agreed times, whether church, mosque or lawnmower.

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      earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for the informative comment paraglider. I was unable to find anywhere in the place I was working to avoid the first call or the second! I hated beig shocked awake every morning after a long days work. I wound up only working in short stints to go back to Australia (just over the pond a bit)to get some sleep.
      The company I consulted too just had to wear my absence if they wanted my best work.
      It seems you become used to the sound in time from what you have said. I never spent that much time without going back to Oz for a break.
      Noise abatement controls sounds right to me too.

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         Paragliderposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         When I first visited Turkey the muezzins would climb the tower and simply walk around the high balcony chanting through an old fashioned acoustic megaphone, but they've long since gone electronic and loud there too. Pity.

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8. 83

   earnestshubposted 12 years ago

   I do wonder how long I would last before being arrested for screaming "There is no fairy in the sky you loons" dawn till dusk from the top of a downtown building?
   I may try it!

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      Diane Insideposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I wish you would let me know how it goes.

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         earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I already know how it "goes" as I feel confident others will.

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            Diane Insideposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I do agree some type of noise control law should be in effect. Like no noise between hours of 10pm til 7am or something like that. Seems like that could be something everybody could live with.

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   Mighty Momposted 12 years ago

   Not sure whose post it was, but the idea of televising the call to prayer seems like a great idea! In this day and age, it could be sent via text, blackberry or even a dedicated cable TV channel.
   
   I imagine this tradition was all good and dandy when all the citizens were (or are) of the same faith. But when you are imposing your faith on other citizens through such noise pollution, that's (IMHO) religious aggression.
   I'm surprised the local government doesn't impose a noise ordinance.
   Have you considered going to your next council meeting (or whatever the local governance structure is there), Earnest?
   BTW, I concur. It's great to see your smiling face back here.

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      earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I have no problem at all where I live. We have laws to stop anyone making a loud noise between certain hours. Even rubbish collection is not allowed at night.
      If anyone wants me to work in Malaysia again it will have to be somewhere sans the 4am screaming!

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      earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks MM It is good to be back to deny the faithful.

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10. 0

    sandra rinckposted 12 years ago

    I think that for just one day...just one day a year there could be total quite.  No bells, no cars, no machinery, no lights buzzing, no sounds of slot machines, church bells, scoots, tvs, etc...
    
    One of the most interesting things I think we could experience (but wouldn't happen because people insist that they have a right to everything except peace and quite). 
    
    Could you imagine, if no one made any noise, I wonder if you could hear the ocean from six miles in, or hear certain animals that you wouldn't normally hear.  You might be able to hear a baby cry a mile away...who knows but it would be nice.
    
    Just one day where the entire globe just didn't make any noise. That would be a humbling experience.

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       Diane Insideposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       That would be interesting Sandra, just to see what it was like, I know when I lived in the country it was like that.  No sound except the rustling of the trees, birds chirping, a running stream, Oh I miss the country.

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          sandra rinckposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Right, and imagine how much more you could hear if the entire planet was quite.  Amazing I bet!  Imagine how many stars you would see without lights on the Earth...Amazing I bet.  But I will just daydream about it.

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    skipper112posted 12 years ago

    Hey if you want to get up at that hour SIMPLE buy a Alarm Clock why do you have to have someone else call you. After all it is up to you to pray at that hour, get it 'it is up to you' I do not need to be reminded you have to pray, and you can bet your life I do not care if you pray or not, but why do you have to inflict such noisy screaming, at a ungodly hour, on decent people who are trying to sleep. Explain why you can't get your self up, my next door ( Islamic)  neighbour get's himself up every morning he dosen't need someone to call him,can't you be like him, he has a new invention called a 'ALARM CLOCK' it wakes him not the whole street.

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    camloposted 12 years ago

    There's a church more or less opposite my house ((Cologne is a city of churches), and the bells drive me mad, especially when I'm trying to watch TV or practice my music. They often peel for half an hour or more for no apparent reason at the oddest times.

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       earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       That's because religion is a psychosis and others don't matter to them.
       They assume the right to ignore others because their invisible friend tells them what to do.
       
       Very childish and arrogant I know, but that is how they are.
       
       To be honest I would probably dismantle the bell ringing assembly in the middle of the night. It must drive you nuts!

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