Do you think that a scripture (Bible, Quaran, Book of Moromon, etc) has to be 100% correct to be of value to people spiritually? Is it possible that fictional stories could be told to make a point that has value even if the story is not true?
From that standpoint, yes they would still be beneficial if they weren't true. I think.
Sure. As long as you understand that it is all made up.
I enjoy literature and find lots of valuable truths in many different works, even though they always contain philosophies, or teach some principles that are not true.
But I think it is important to have something that we know is 100% true. Something we can trust and know we can rely on. Otherwise we waste too much time questioning, doubting, etc.
Those books are supposed to be the infallible word of a god, hence they must be 100% correct, even though they all relay different messages, some contradictory to the other, to their followers.
Grimms Fairy Tales and Aesops Fables have enormous value as fictional books.
There are some writings in the "Holy Bible" that are are 100% accurate. There are also writings that are "Prophetic" in nature that one might see as a fictional story meant to teach a lesson. There are also Prophetic warnings of upcoming events in the future that are yet to happen..like in the Book of Revelation written by John a disciple of Jesus about the future.
You can't really say that some stories are 100% accurate becasue that implies there is some evidence to either prove or support it - which there is not outside of faith.
And while I am here I owe you an apology for being excessively and unnecesarily rude to you the other day when discussing christian values, specifically christian marriage.
There are stories that are 100% accurate and have been established by historical supporting proof for instance the story of the exodus of the Jews from Egypt and the plagues that took place prior to their release. There is historic documentation supporting their fleeing.
Ramases Pharoah of Egypt was a real person. King David lived, King Saul lived, King Solomon lived, Jesus lived, Pontious Pilate and King Herod lived,and their stories are recorded in History as well as in the Bible as well as the Biblical Prophets they all lived. These are all real people not ficticious characters in some novel and their stories have been verified.
The story of Jesus birth and life and death is proven hisorically and substantiated.
Even some of the predictions by John in the book of Revelation, some have either been proven through Historic fact some we are seeing unfold throughout our lifetime.
No, there isn't, Dave.
Not all of them, Dave. Sorry.
Sorry again, Dave, no such thing.
You are free to produce the historic documentation to substantiate your claims, but you would be the only one in the entire world with such documentation.
Fact: All of this is documented in History. The Bible is a Historical text, also there are other Historical documents to back this up.
I don't believe I've ever seen any documentation other than the bible that every firstborn in Egypt was killed by an angel in one night. Nor that the sea drained to let Israelis cross, then filled (closed?) to drown the Egyptians. It would make a very informative read if I could but find such a document - where is it?
Where might I find documentation outside religious tales that Jesus was born in a stable to a virgin? Surely that actual date of such an important occasion would also be recorded, yet it does not seem to be so. Healers of the time would have been fascinated, I'm sure, and written all about it.
Hey wilderness. Not to argue (i do believe it is impossible at this point to verify the truth of the history as presented in the Old Testament) but as to outside verification of the things that happened in the Exodus there's a great documentary on that. It was done by the guy that does The Naked Archaeologist. If what he presented is true, it is compelling evidence that this story is based in fact. Just difficult to see because 'the church' attributed it to the wrong point in history.
I do not really doubt that the tale is based on fact. It is my opinion that it is also highly "fictionalized" with such "facts" as the death of every firstborn Egyptian in one night. That's what, perhaps 25% of the population (estimating everyone to have had 3 siblings).
That was touched on too. I agree, all firstborns sounds difficult to fathom but, whether true or not, the series of events, as presented, would not necessarily preclude this from being true. To believe it all with no concrete evidence is assuredly a leap of faith.
Fair enough, Dave. I believe you. If you could just direct me as to where that documentation is located, I'd be happy to read it.
In the meantime, could you please let me know which one of the following versions of Jesus' last words on the cross is correct? Thanks.
Mark 15:34-37, Matthew 27:46-50 - Jesus says: “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
Luke 23:46 - Jesus says: “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit.”
John 19:30 - Jesus says: “It is finished.”
Dave, I agree, and when you compare apples to apples in regards to ancient texts, nothing out there begins to compare to what the bible has to back it up. Its not even in the same league. None of us can make this true or not, it just is, or not.
The answers are in learning how to evaluate ancient texts at all. Its not at all about opinions, which there is a lot of, out there. If you are going for accuracy, there is a method to that. People could start with a study of any set of writings, say Shakespeare in the 17th century. Much later than the first century, and with a lot less to back it up. I have my own thoughts as to why these facts are as they are.
novels frequently make references to real people and places too, to make them more convincing.
please explain how the the life of Jesus is proven historically & substantiated independently from the bible
If you consider what you wrote, you have your answer.
Fiction or Fact are the same to two viewers. One views [something titled] fact as true where others view [something titled] fiction as false. It could be the exact same words, symbols, glyphs, what-have-you.
It is therefore conclusive, that all words are null and void --especially to the 'spiritual' person. If indeed a person is spiritual (not an over inflated sensationalist) they have no need for written words as a guide or directive. In the case of theological words, even by application yield nothing but more words. So one arguing for the [titled] facts | fiction (aka faction) are only doing so to satisfy a necessity apart from those words. In addition, a spiritual person lives in sync with the spiritual universal --meaning the united tangible | intangible-- which is where the truth exists --and only there.
Many ancient texts that come to us are off of manuscripts most often. The ones with the best manuscript evidences to back them up, say like the Christian BIble, still could be seen as not 100% accurate depending on what you mean.
I would rule out texts as being unreliable or trustworthy if they contain immoral directives perhaps on the one hand. I think many of them absolutely supply some worthwhile texts. Be careful here, as there are some that are sharing their own held beliefs as absolute fact. Everyone has opinions, so take some things with a grain of salt.
If I were you, I would try to go with what is true and factual and has good reasons to back it up. As time goes by, we see more and more reasons to trust some ancient texts over others. If they weren't true, the opposite would be true. Great question.
Sun rises from east and sets at west is considered as accurate outside this planet ? Like this there are many flaws. East/west/north/south/seasons/timezones are human made and has no scope outside this planet. Talk about accuracy huh ?
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